Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - Pyra (& Rex)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Simon Belmont Sora baybee
P - Phoenix Wright
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Amamiya Ren/Joker (Japanese names are pronounced last name, then first name)
L - Lip

 

[Idon]

Who in their right mind does a Week 1 tournament
at least give it a month man

Gotta get that twitch money, my man.

 

[Opossum]

I'm sorry lad, I have to do it to ya.

We don't know if it's 8 or 12. It's one or the other, no source says which one.

Sakurai said the fighters initially available in 64. Unlockables aren't initially available.

Kind of common sense, dude.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Did the website blog update yet?

 

[KMDP]

xD It is utterly rare of me re-using any of my Ridley reactions, so, yeah, I am kinda fast when doodling him. And I try my best to do it as simple as possible, not caring about it being "perfect", just it being what comes to my mind.

I wish I could be as fast as you then.

This image took me the better part of a night, and that was after spending a few days trying to make a different pose look right.

It's probably because my tablet is super old... XD

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know I actually kinda like this approach to unlocking

You’d be putting a lot more hard work into getting everybody, vs Melee and 4 where a much larger chunk of the roster was available from the start, this making you adapt to whomever is initially available

It’s also a bit of a trip down memory lane as you unlock 64’s Hidden 4, followed by the Melee newcomers, the Brawl newcomers, 4’s, and finally Ultimate’s.

Did the website blog update yet?

Should be around 9 or 10 EST tonight.

 

[KMDP]

S - Simon Belmont
P - Phoenix Wright
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Amamiya Ren/Joker (Japanese names are pronounced last name, then first name)
L - Lip

I'm surprised you didn't go for Sora for S.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wish I could be as fast as you then.

This image took me the better part of a night, and that was after spending a few days trying to make a different pose look right.

It's probably because my tablet is super old... XD

Duuuude your art skills are awesome!! I think I wanna practice drawing again now aaaaaa

Brb charging iPad

 

[Murlough]

There was this post on the Smash Reddit that I thought was cool so here it is.

Can your most wanted character pass the "Sakurai" Test?

You must answer each question with detailed answers and not with simple yes or no responses. I have included Sakurai’s quotes to justify my questions. I am also limiting my questions based on what quotes that I can find from Sakurai that way i'm not projecting anything I believe should be asked for the character.

Here are the questions

1. How relevant/popular is your character within the Nintendo franchise? The proposal/planning for Ultimate began circa December 2015. Was your character popular in and around that time?

2. Is your character's franchise already represented in Smash? Do you believe that the franchise is under or over represented? If the franchise is not currently represented in Smash, why do you believe it should be?

3. Can your Character Dance? Meaning: What is unique about your character? Does your character potentially offer a fighting style that is unique to the roster?

For any third party characters

1. How iconic is your character within its own company? Would you say it is the #1 most iconic character that they have made? Is your character the protagonist of its own series? Explain.

2. Are both Parties (Companies) open to letting the character be in Smash? Has the creator of the character stated openly that they would allow the use of their IP?

3. Can your Character Dance? Meaning: What is unique about your character? Does your character potentially offer a fighting style that is unique to the roster?

Here's the original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/90zqq0/can_your_most_wanted_character_pass_the_sakurai/

Mimikyu

1. Not #1 but, due to recency bias, it is pretty high up there. I don't think Mimikyu is the type of Pokemon that just gets forgotten. The anime may stop using him post-Sumo but the design is always gonna stick out for players, for better or worse.

2. Its a Pokemon.

3. Some would argue no. I don't remember a little doll creature assault opponents with Shadow Claws in the Smash games I've played so...there are potentially a ton of things they could do moveset wise for Mimikyu.

You could base a moveset around its ability Disguise, you could make it a deceptive disjoint based character using its hidden disjointed Shadow Claws to space foes out, or you could make it a semi-clone of Pikachu: as in giving it Pikachu's Smash 4 normals (they all work minus side tilt) and replacing the lightning effects with Ghost effects and then giving it completely new Specials (minus Shadowball. I don't care what anyone else says give it Shadowball.) based on its Fairy/Ghost typing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So here's a question.

You need to divide the roster into teams of three.

How do you do it?

 

[Ultinarok]

Wait.

I would understand if your point was that we think the logical characters are likely.

But what's wrong with supporting a character just because you or others like them?

Nothing. But making a huge case out of them being in because you like them, and then losing your mind when they don't get in (cough* cough* some fans of Waluigi) is both counterproductive and shows a lack of understanding of what it takes to be in Smash. Waluigi has some factors that worked in his favor, but there were others that worked against him. True fans of any character have to look to realistic reasons they'd be included, rather than blindly following biases.

In most support threads, I've been seeing people listing the advantages of the character that boost their odds to a level above most other flighters, while still maintaining a level of realism and self-preservation that keeps them from going Coocoo for Cocoa Puffs if they don't make the cut. It's more maturity than I saw during the last two speculation eras on the site. It's less "I like X and they didn't make it in, so I hate Sakurai and this garbage game" and more "X has some important factors working for them, but I fear Y may hold them back. Here's hoping."

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm still surprised that Saki has yet to be confirmed as an AT again.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I kind of hope there's a way to unlock all the characters quickly, I get that it's fun for most people to unlock all the characters but it's going to be a logistical nightmare trying to host tournaments during launch week when like half the set-ups won't have your main on it unless it's a Original 8 or 12 character.

Bruh...it's pretty simple


Self-destruct on one stock and you'll pick them up faster. That's how I got all unlockables in one day for the 3DS

 

[AndreaAC]

I wish I could be as fast as you then.

This image took me the better part of a night, and that was after spending a few days trying to make a different pose look right.

It's probably because my tablet is super old... XD

XD Oh come on, Ridley is an special case because I have been drawing him A LOT for quite some years (xD That is why I got the title of Ridley's Propaganda Artist from a friend of mine since 2014), and yet I still need practice! But thanks! :>

.3. That looks great! I gotta be honest, I am so bad drawing human characters, and what you just shown me makes me even more reasonable why it takes time to get it done! From the few times I have tried to draw humans, it has taken me days also, but I still find it flawed left and right!

And maybe? It could be the settings, the driver ( o - o I mean, if it is dying, like my first tablet was at some point, yeah. Also my recent one is an old model XD I cannot afford for one of those Intuos ones), but despite that, it is amazing you did an amazing job still! :D

O3O Sorry if we are deviating a little from the actual game's topic.

 

[KMDP]

Duuuude your art skills are awesome!! I think I wanna practice drawing again now aaaaaa

Brb charging iPad

Thanks!
Fun fact: Like everything I draw on the computer (this includes the Stock Icons), it was actually drawn in Macromedia Flash MX.

 

[The Kirbyister]

Would mimikyu be a clone of pikachu?

 

[Demonfunds]

I'm still surprised that Saki has yet to be confirmed as an AT again.

Alot of previous AT's haven't been confirmed, what makes him so special?

 

[Will]

I'm still surprised that Saki has yet to be confirmed as an AT again.

I'm surprised Ashley, Shadow, Dark Samus, Isabelle, and literally any other assist trophy that wasn't shown isn't shown yet.

Sakurai is still showing only old stuff from the demo. Who knows how long before new things get shown? It may not even be shown until after the game's release for all we know at this snail pace.

Alot of previous AT's haven't been confirmed, what makes her so special?

what makes her so special?

her

You're memeing me right?

 

[Zerp]

Who in their right mind does a Week 1 tournament
at least give it a month man

My local scene apparently wants to revive itself by having a Day 2 tournament, as crazy as that sounds.
Not that I have much to complain about though, I doubt it will affect me negatively because my main's probably going to be stupid levels of easy to unlock.

Bruh...it's pretty simple


Self-destruct on one stock and you'll pick them up faster. That's how I got all unlockables in one day for the 3DS

That's how I did it too, but I doubt everyone else is going to do that instead of just playing the game lol.

Would mimikyu be a clone of pikachu?

Almost definitely not, they're basically nothing alike except for the appearance.

 

[staindgrey]

Who in their right mind does a Week 1 tournament
at least give it a month man

I participated in one for Brawl. It was fun.

Not like a major tournament. But we all went in basically blind and it was cool.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

Alright here's mine
S: Simon
P: Pokemon Gen 7
E: Elma
C: Chrom
I: Issac
A: Ashley
L: Luigified Dixie Kong

 

[Demonfunds]

I'm surprised Ashley, Shadow, Dark Samus, Isabelle, and literally any other assist trophy that wasn't shown isn't shown yet.

Sakurai is still showing only old stuff from the demo. Who knows how long before new things get shown? It may not even be shown until after the game's release for all we know at this snail pace.




You're memeing me right?

oh, didn't know the character was a boy, looked like a girl to me

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So here's a question.

You need to divide the roster into teams of three.

How do you do it?

Is it weird that I’m gonna divide them by genre/overall aesthetic of their base series?

Classic Adventure (not skewing to heavy sci fi or fantasy):

Sci-fi:

Fantasy: ultroy:

It’s random but it’s the first thing I thought of I swear

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Doesn't the picture they use have the original 8? Then it adds the 4 others

He may not have said it, but as they say "A picture is worth a thousand words"

I could quote everyone who is saying we don't know but I didn't feel like finding them all.

Sakurai literally said the original 12 in his Famitsu article. It was just cited here. It's via Source Gaming. It's the original N64 12. Like...he would have to be lying for it not to be. And "Well Sakurai could be tricking us" is not an arguement.

Would mimikyu be a clone of pikachu?

Not likely. It would be an interesting reference but would be supppppper dissapointing. I personally don't think we will get any clones besides echoes and it's body doesn't allow it to be an echo of Pikachu, so I highly doubt it.

 

[KMDP]

XD Oh come on, Ridley is an special case because I have been drawing him A LOT for quite some years (xD That is why I got the title of Ridley's Propaganda Artist from a friend of mine since 2014), and yet I still need practice!

.3. That looks great! I gotta be honest, I am so bad drawing human characters, and what you just shown me makes me even more reasonable why it takes time to get it done! From the few times I have tried to draw humans, it has taken me days also, but I still find it flawed left and right!

And maybe? It could be the settings, the driver ( o - o I mean, if it is dying, like my first tablet was at some point, yeah. Also my recent one is an old model XD I cannot afford for one of those Intuos ones), but despite that, it is amazing you did an amazing job still! :D

O3O Sorry if we are deviating a little from the actual game's topic.

Human characters are my specialty... Possibly to the point that I'm over specialised. XD

Spoiler: Other Art

I also have images I drew of Fire Emblem's Camilla and Charlotte... a girl in a bikini might get me a warning, though.

My biggest weakness is drawing faces straight on, they tend to become slanted. Apparently this is actually a common problem for artists though, when you draw, you slant towards your dominant hand (if you're right-handed the images will slant right).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

oh, didn't know the character was a boy, looked like a girl to me

I thought he was a girl at first too lel

And alas...charging the iPad may take several hours. Battery was fully drained, RIP.

DaybreakHorizon got any good laughing stocks — I mean leaks, lately?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Not seen much talk about it, but what about Marina from Mischief Makers on the N64, doesn't Nintendo own that property?

 

[ChronoBound]

I posted this in the Ashley thread, but I feel its important for all Smash Bros. speculators to read:

It is still possible we get a Nintendo Direct either this week or next week. I think the topic of such a Direct would probably be just about Nintendo 3DS software. The Nintendo 3DS was not featured at all in the E3 2018 Direct, and yet Nintendo has stated they plan to support the console through 2019. There is also the fact that the last two games that have set release dates in Japan (WarioWare Gold and Etrian Odyssey X) both release next week. After that Nintendo just has a nebulous "2018" release for Luigi's Mansion, and a "2019" release for the Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story remake.

Kimishima has confirmed that they still have games that they plan to release in 2018 that they still have announced yet.

It would make sense to have a Nintendo Direct either this week or next week, so that:
1. They can give a last minute push and spotlight to WarioWare Gold (and Etrian Odyssey X in Japan).
2. Give some spotlight to Yokai Watch Busters (which releases on September 7th in North America and Europe).
3. Show off new details about Luigi's Mansion and possibly Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story.
4. Show off any unannounced Nintendo 3DS titles, especially ones that they plan to release in 2018 or Q1 2019.
5. Possibly throw in a newcomer unveil trailer for Ultimate.

This is all conjecture. They can easily avoid not giving any more spotlight to WarioWare Gold, and even put off doing a 3DS focused Nintendo Direct entirely, and instead put any unannounced 3DS titles into the likely September Nintendo Direct (in recent years there has been a Nintendo Direct in September that gave focus to titles releasing in Q4 of that year). Also, the last time there was a Nintendo Direct dedicated only to Nintendo 3DS software was September 2016, nearly two years ago.

What is riding on a Nintendo Direct happening either this week or next week is not just the probability of an Ashley confirmation, but also just how many newcomers there will be in Ultimate. We are only 4.5 months away from release, and there have only been three newcomers confirmed for Ultimate (one of which was a echo fighter, the cloney-iest of clones). Sakurai has said not to "expect too many new fighters", and most serious speculators only expect ten non-echo newcomers at most and five more non-echo newcomers at least. If they are going to wait until September to start confirming one newcomer per month, or until the likely Smash Bros. Direct in November, there could very well be only five more non-echo newcomers at most, and most likely only two or three more.

I am personally neutral on Ashley as a character. However, much like other Smash Bros. fans, I would like to see some new information on Ultimate considering it has been over six weeks since we learned anything new (granted the Ultimate unveil by far gave us more information than any other unveil ever for a Smash Bros. title). Typically, newcomer confirmations have been spaced out, especially so during a title's last few months prior to release.

During the last five months of Brawl's release, Ike, Diddy Kong, Pokemon Trainer, Lucas, Sonic, King Dedede, and Olimar were confirmed. During the last four months for Smash 4, Palutena, Mii Fighters, Pac-Man, Lucina, Robin, and Shulk were confirmed. It is important to note that three of those listed for Smash 4 were confirmed during E3, and both Robin and Lucina shared a trailer (and Lucina is an echo fighter).

For Ultimate's E3, there was the same amount of newcomers confirmed as the Fire Emblem Smash 4 trailer, a newcomer and an echo newcomer. This would leave only the Smash Bros. Direct before Ultimate's release as the sole opportunity to have more than one newcomer confirmation for a direct (aside from some newcomer trailers possibly also confirming an echo newcomer like Robin's did).

Aside from the possible 3DS focused Direct, the only other opportunities for Directs with a newcomer unveil for Ultimate would be the September Direct and the Ultimate focused Direct. There is also a possibility a Pokemon newcomer could be confirmed for a possible Pokemon Let's Go focused Nintendo Direct. Another possibility is that Sakurai announces newcomer unveils via Twitter like he did for the trailer that unveiled Robin and Lucina.

However, each week that goes by without any new information learned, the probability of there being only two or three more non-echo newcomers left increases, since it will become increasingly likely the plan will be not to space out newcomer confirmations, but rather to save them all for an Ultimate focused Nintendo Direct that will likely happen some time in November.

So its not just the probability of Ashley that will take a hit after next week without a Nintendo Direct, but also the probability of ALL possible newcomers, especially ones that can not be implemented as echo fighters. Each week without a Nintendo Direct or a newcomer confirmation, the probability of an additional non-echo newcomer slot goes down quite a bit.

We shall see what happens. A few weeks ago, I was optimistic that Ashley was going to be the next newcomer confirmed for Ultimate and that we would likely have a Nintendo Direct either this week or next week. However, now I believe such odds for a Nintendo Direct and newcomer confirmation either this week or next week are only 50/50. The primary impetus for this this change in thought was no new information being revealed for the release date of the Captain Toad ports, not even a character of the day update for Peach (of which Toad is a part of).

It is becoming increasingly apparent that there is so much content from the June 12th unveil that can be posted on the Smash Blog, that we could very well be looking at several months before a new stage, item, Assist Trophy, Pokemon, or newcomer we have not seen on June 12th is confirmed or shown.

One less Nintendo Direct means one less opportunity for a newcomer confirmation. It is important for not just Ashley fans, but fans of all prospective newcomers to keep their fingers crossed for a Nintendo Direct either this week or next week. Hopefully, we will learn who Fighter #66 is by the end of next week.

If not, then who knows when we will learn. It may be all the way in September (when the next Nintendo Direct will likely happen), or Sakurai could be saving all he has left for November for Ultimate's Direct. If that is the case, I suggest for every serious speculator to revise their expectations on not only who to expect but what to expect (very few additional non-echo newcomers). If the character you are hoping for can not easily be made an echo fighter of another currently existing character on the roster, it might be for the best to keep your expectations low after next week.

We shall see. It is definitely still possible that Ashley is a newcomer in Ultimate if nothing happens this week or next week, just as it is still possible for any other character that has not already been de-confirmed. However, the longer it takes for any newcomer confirmations to happen (unless they start doing two per month starting in September), the more likely we will have less than eight more non-echo newcomers in Ultimate. Less than five more also becomes an increasingly likely possibility if nothing happens in August.

I do not care what happens to Ashley in Ultimate, but I still feel this is an important analysis to share.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I could quote everyone who is saying we don't know but I didn't feel like finding them all.

Sakurai literally said the original 12 in his Famitsu article. It was just cited here. It's via Source Gaming. It's the original N64 12. Like...he would have to be lying for it not to be. And "Well Sakurai could be tricking us" is not an arguement.

Not likely. It would be an interesting reference but would be supppppper dissapointing. I personally don't think we will get any clones besides echoes and it's body doesn't allow it to be an echo of Pikachu, so I highly doubt it.

He didn't literally say that. You can search for the term 12 or twelve and you won't find it

This is all that was stated

"I’ve decided to limit the number of fighters initially available to the original Nintendo 64 roster. This will keep the process of unlocking new challengers fun and exciting, but I suppose it’s a bit of a hassle in comparison with other fighting games that allow all players to fight under the same conditions from the get-go."

Which does lead to it being interpreted as the original 8. Especially since the picture used in the trailer was the original 8

 

[MargnetMan23]

Would mimikyu be a clone of pikachu?

Mimikyu is a ghost/fairy pokemon with a potential gimmick in the form of its Disguise ability. Its main method of fighting is using claw attacks from its shadowy appendages. Yep, that's a pika clone for sure. I mean, you can make an argument for it having similar tilts and aerials or whatever, but unless this Mimikyu has a lot of TMs it makes 0 sense for them to have the same specials.

 

[NintenZ]

Is it weird that I’m gonna divide them by genre/overall aesthetic of their base series?

Classic Adventure (not skewing to heavy sci fi or fantasy):

Sci-fi:

Fantasy: ultroy:

It’s random but it’s the first thing I thought of I swear

I’d say Shulk and Cloud are more in-between.

Maybe Olimar as well since his game has a small pinch of fantasy.

 

[Bowserlick]

So here's a question.

You need to divide the roster into teams of three.

How do you do it?

Naked/Mostly Naked:
Clothed that I wouldn't mind seeing Naked: :ultrobin
Clothed that can stay clothed:

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Naked/Mostly Naked:
Clothed that I wouldn't mind seeing Naked: :ultrobin
Clothed that can stay clothed:

Isn't Bayonetta's "Clothes" her hair? Wouldn't she technically be naked?

 

[The Kirbyister]

Mimikyu is a ghost/fairy pokemon with a potential gimmick in the form of its Disguise ability. Its main method of fighting is using claw attacks from its shadowy appendages. Yep, that's a pika clone for sure. I mean, you can make an argument for it having similar tilts and aerials or whatever, but unless this Mimikyu has a lot of TMs it makes 0 sense for them to have the same specials.

I didn’t know that. I didn’t play Sun for that long ( is mimikyu in sun and ultra sun?)

 

[Bowserlick]

Isn't Bayonetta's "Clothes" her hair? Wouldn't she technically be naked?

I am glad people are giving serious thoughts to my list. You may be correct.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm not too familiar with Bayonetta. I might have misheard that. It's just something I remember people saying.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So here's a question.

You need to divide the roster into teams of three.

How do you do it?

Funny enough I used to do this with previous rosters. Only teams of two in Brawl, and teams of four in Wii U. Figure four works well with 8-Player Smash. But if I had to go with teams of three:

- Super Mario Brothers
- Super Mario Ladies
- Mario's Companions
- Mario's Baddies
- Hyrule's Courageous Heroes
- Wisdom and Power
- Metroid
- Kid Icarus
- Little People
- Three Shades of Marth
ultcorrin: - Actual Variety
- Kirby
- Star Fox and Wolf
- Genwunners
- Pikachu's Friends
- Hardware
- Little People II
- Duos and Trios
- Legal Adults
- Gaming Icons
- Unnecessary
- Mii Fighters

 

[dezeray112]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - Pyra (& Rex)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Simon Belmont
P - Phoenix (F-Zero GX)
E - Excitebiker
C - Chibi-Robo
I - Impa
A - Ashley
L - Leon S. Kennedy

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So here's a question.

You need to divide the roster into teams of three.

How do you do it?

Good question




Team 1

ultjigglypuff:(Squirtle)(Brawler)


Team 2

(Charizard) (Swordmaster)


Team 3

(Ivysaur) (Gunner)



All based on a randomizer that I made lol

 

[MargnetMan23]

I didn’t know that. I didn’t play Sun ( is mimikyu in sun and ultra sun?)

Well, also in Moon and Ultra Moon but yeah. Honestly, Moon and Ultra Moon are quite possibly the worst mainline pokemon games I've ever played (and I've played at least one game from every gen since gen 3). I love Mimikyu though.