Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ThyCheshireCat]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - Pyra (& Rex)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Spino (A vivosaur on Fossil Fighters)
P - Porky
E - Escargoon (Seriously)
C - Crocomire
I - I really want Marx
A - Ashley
L - Long Live The King Of The Kremlings.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

/s

 

[Mc.Rad]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

View attachment 154169
/s

Ah, the good old days of when they just put a model, make collision data for it, and called it a stage...

 

[DMTN]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

View attachment 154169
/s

You are joking, but some of these unplayable stages are legitimately good. I had many fun matches on the Snag the Trophies stage.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

It's why I lack the drive to be a serious competitor. I love going to tournaments and playing against other people, but I play Shulk, and that's not going to get me anywhere.

Praise the sun for landing lag being reduced across the cast along with Shulk having a much easier time switching monando. Shulk SHOULD be theoretically in a better spot if they fixed or improved his frame data. At least you can have fun freeing up Kirby/Warriors

 

[osby]

Something bad happening to Dedede. That or a Gay romance but I don't imagine a story being romantic, and Nintendo are cowards. Maybe something shippy would be a better term. Corrin x Dark Pit anyone?

I can see this working, weirdly enough.

 

[RandomAce]

I mean, antagonists can be anything from a genocidal maniac to someone who makes you think "who really IS the good guy here?" And that variety is good because antagonists would all feel stale af otherwise. If every Nintendo villain was a morally irredeemable sadist like Ridley then I probably wouldn't care as much about Ridley being included (still like the design though). But that's not the case and Ridley occupies his own space among the roster so that's cool with me.

Man I really like those “who is really the bad guy” villains.

My favorite villain, Vayne from FF12, is my favorite due to his character and his story. He wants to stop the Gods? or very powerful beings from using humans and allow man kimd to be free to do whatever they want and write their own history without being trapped in the hands of those beings. Albeit he is a cruel person in the way he does it, he had good intentions. However, Vaan and his group had other plans.

Spoiler: FFXII Spoiler

Throughout the end of the game Vayne and Venat, a being who helps Vayne realize their dreams, almost had enough power to free mankind. On the other hand, Basch and Ashe when to defeat Vayne in order to free Dalmasca from the empire. This was at the cost of possibly losing the power that was given to mankind and fall right back into the hands of the gods. Who really was the good guy after all?

 

[Blargg888]

Armight


View attachment 154154

HOH HOH HOOOOOHH

Wow, I just got hit with a tsunami of nostalgia. I completely forgot about that laugh.

Clearly, the bottom three in Smash 4 and Brawl's official tier lists are literally just the same three characters flipped around.
View attachment 154156
View attachment 154157
And then it gets strange in Project M, where none of them are bottom three yet...
View attachment 154155
They're still bound together! It's almost creepy, it's like fate itself is keeping them together.

Clearly what this means is that one of these days, the top 3 characters will be Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganondorf in any order, if one is, then they must all be. /s

Man, this puffy, pink incarnation of The Hero of Hyrule sure is weird.

Can't wait for The Legend of Zelda: A Jigglypuff to the Past.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

There was this post on the Smash Reddit that I thought was cool so here it is.

Can your most wanted character pass the "Sakurai" Test?

You must answer each question with detailed answers and not with simple yes or no responses. I have included Sakurai’s quotes to justify my questions. I am also limiting my questions based on what quotes that I can find from Sakurai that way i'm not projecting anything I believe should be asked for the character.

Here are the questions

1. How relevant/popular is your character within the Nintendo franchise? The proposal/planning for Ultimate began circa December 2015. Was your character popular in and around that time?

2. Is your character's franchise already represented in Smash? Do you believe that the franchise is under or over represented? If the franchise is not currently represented in Smash, why do you believe it should be?

3. Can your Character Dance? Meaning: What is unique about your character? Does your character potentially offer a fighting style that is unique to the roster?

For any third party characters

1. How iconic is your character within its own company? Would you say it is the #1 most iconic character that they have made? Is your character the protagonist of its own series? Explain.

2. Are both Parties (Companies) open to letting the character be in Smash? Has the creator of the character stated openly that they would allow the use of their IP?

3. Can your Character Dance? Meaning: What is unique about your character? Does your character potentially offer a fighting style that is unique to the roster?

Here's the original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/90zqq0/can_your_most_wanted_character_pass_the_sakurai/

Now, to do this properly.

Shantae:
1: Shantae's pretty relevant right now and had her franchise's popularity skyrocket at the wake of Pirate's Curse's release in 2014, though she wasn't too popular in Japan yet at that point.
1, 3P: Shantae is the most iconic WayForward mascot by far, with most others being flash in the pan successes or cult classic figures.
2, 3P: Wayforward and Matt Bozon definitely want her to be in. All that's left is Nintendo's approval and the results of her ballot support.
3, 3P: She can dance and then some, her dancing and transformations can provide a lot of variety for a potential moveset.

Rayman:
1: Pretty relevant right now thanks to a Switch port of Rayman Legends. The game in question came out before 2015.
1, 3P: Not so much anymore due to Ubisoft's favoring the Rabbids, but is at the very least close to that.
2. 3P: Ubisoft want him in to the point that they made a trophy model, which actually got included into Smash 4. The current relationship between Nintendo and Ubisoft will be the most crucial deciding factor,
3, 3P: Besides the powers used in his games (helicopter hair, windup fist, etc), his telescopic limbs can provide versatility in terms of combat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l2YqNh8Sfs
This makes me incredibly happy.

PRECIOUS

What really sells it for me is the high five the two of them do at the start.

Daisy has a British accent in this song:

It’s before Deanna Mustard but... dang; Daisy is versatile. She does sports and sings and ****.

Is it any wonder why Pauline became a mayor? Compared to the accomplishments the princesses and Rosalina regularly do, she just kept getting kidnapped.

I could see them simply porting Ultimate with new stuff and some engine/gameplay tweaks. No reason to re-invent the wheel here, we got the series' max potential.

I'd like a spin off of Smash focusing more on traditional fighters. That would sell and you could "reboot" the roster without upsetting anyone as it is a brand new title.

Alternatively there is always the Master Chief Collection method - re-release all 5 entries in one package with online. I trust them to do a better job than 343i for that.

Or better yet, go ahead and approve Yoshinori Ono's idea for Nintendo Vs. Capcom.

Coincidentally, Ridley being so terrible and unredeemable is what makes me like him so much. He's not here to kidnap princesses or steal food. He's a cold-blooded criminal who kills, and that makes him one of the most intimidating Nintendo villains of all time.

Heroes might be the star of the game, but villains are who make the story engaging. Few villains do their job as good as Ridley.

For what it's worth, I kinda like how K. Rool went increasingly insane, from stealing bananas, to kidnapping the Kongs that try to stop him, to finally going "**** it, let's just blow up the Kongs!", before Paon pacified him considerably. I wish I'd get to see Retro Studios' take on him someday.

On this topic, for some reason I'm almost getting the feeling that perhaps this game's Classic Mode will at first harken back to SSB64's Classic mode with a similar order to the main single player mode of the original game. Though as you unlock more characters it becomes more like Melee's where it's more random in which you fight next.

Given this game will effectively be partly a 20th anniversary celebration of the franchise (Heck in Japan it turns 20 only a month later). I feel they may put a good amount of nods to the first game. Which is already apparent in the starting roster beginning with just the Original 8 or 12. Imagine if they went full-blown recreation of the original's Classic Mode and included like Giant Donkey Kong, Metal Mario, and HD Polygon fighters.

I'd love that. While Smash 64 is old hat these days, its Classic Mode has always been my favorite.

 

[Akg0001]

Shrek
Paris Hilton
E.T.
Caterpie
Iron Man
Abraham Lincoln
Luffy

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

View attachment 154169
/s

I want this.

 

[osby]

Shrek
Paris Hilton
E.T.
Caterpie
Iron Man
Abraham Lincoln
Luffy

Luffy is legit only manga character I'd be okay with his inclusion.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I"m apparently not there only one who want Grovyle, and maybe Mt. Pyre ( I forget what that one mountain was called XD) as a stage to go with 'im?







Wait.







This is Nintendo we're talking about.

I want Grovyle to appear in Smash, but I'm afraid that's not gonna happen unless they did a WTF moment

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Well... with the timeline shenanigans, technically they're all the same world. XD (Wind Waker's Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf as the Ocarina of Time one, an artstyle change doesn't change that).

But you're right in that they've in vastly different time periods, and we don't know what the OOT-era Gerudo were like before Ganondorf came into the picture.

I believe Idon was reffering to OOT/WW Gerudo compared to BOTW Gerudo. These are definitely different societies (we aren't even fully sure where BOTW lands on the timeline still...). Gerudo in BOTW are all over the place and treated with equality/respect etc. Gerudo in OOT are banned to the desert basically (which seems like a wayyyy harsher place in OOT). Was there even npc Gerudo outside of Gerudo Valley? (There had to be right?)

Anyway yeah those are very different societies can't say Ganondorf made it worse without more context. I think it's more plausable that Ganondorf took a legitimate social issue and used it for his own causes.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

The true villain that Smash need is Kefka from FF VI casting his light of judgement on these worthless fighters!! Kefka over Sephiroth IMO.

 

[Will]

Hey so something about the GCN controllers for Ultimate that I never found out. I know they're wired, but there's no adapter either. Are these bad boys going to be equipped with USB cables? Unless there's something obvious and I'm a big dumb.

 

[papagenos]

I believe Idon was reffering to OOT/WW Gerudo compared to BOTW Gerudo. These are definitely different societies (we aren't even fully sure where BOTW lands on the timeline still...). Gerudo in BOTW are all over the place and treated with equality/respect etc. Gerudo in OOT are banned to the desert basically (which seems like a wayyyy harsher place in OOT). Was there even npc Gerudo outside of Gerudo Valley? (There had to be right?)

Anyway yeah those are very different societies can't say Ganondorf made it worse without more context. I think it's more plausable that Ganondorf took a legitimate social issue and used it for his own causes.

pretty sure theres a NPC gerudo or two in castle town in OOT looking for men, that was the origin of the gerudo traveling to find husbands/mates whatever.

 

[Idon]

Hey so something about the GCN controllers for Ultimate that I never found out. I know they're wired, but there's no adapter either. Are these bad boys going to be equipped with USB cables? Unless there's something obvious and I'm a big dumb.

I think the adapter works for the Switch as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Something isn’t right here...

View attachment 154168

Wait what is wrong? Just curious.

 

[KMDP]

I believe Idon was reffering to OOT/WW Gerudo compared to BOTW Gerudo. These are definitely different societies (we aren't even fully sure where BOTW lands on the timeline still...). Gerudo in BOTW are all over the place and treated with equality/respect etc. Gerudo in OOT are banned to the desert basically (which seems like a wayyyy harsher place in OOT). Was there even npc Gerudo outside of Gerudo Valley? (There had to be right?)

Anyway yeah those are very different societies can't say Ganondorf made it worse without more context. I think it's more plausable that Ganondorf took a legitimate social issue and used it for his own causes.

pretty sure theres a NPC gerudo or two in castle town in OOT looking for men, that was the origin of the gerudo traveling to find husbands/mates whatever.

While there weren't any Gerudos outside of Gerudo Desert/Valley in OOT, they definitely do leave, because Gossip Stones tell us they do.

Also, with the OOT Gerudo standing guard at the bridge, not letting anyone in, I think it's probably less that the Kingdom of Hyrule have actively banished them to the desert, and more that they live in the desert and are very territorial.

Also, when Young Link puts on the Gerudo mask, there are people who react by saying "YEAAARGH! A GERUDO!" So they're, you know, feared by the Hylians.

 

[elephant13]

Hey so something about the GCN controllers for Ultimate that I never found out. I know they're wired, but there's no adapter either. Are these bad boys going to be equipped with USB cables? Unless there's something obvious and I'm a big dumb.

are you referring to the HORI ones that got announced today? Those are USB

The GC controller announced at e3 is a regular GC controller, and the wii u adapters are coming back into production

 

[Androobie]

Wait what is wrong? Just curious.

You said one thing. You listed two things: hatred and revenge. It’s funny.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

View attachment 154169
/s

What about the omega version?

 

[Fenriraga]

Shrek
Paris Hilton
E.T.
Caterpie
Iron Man
Abraham Lincoln
Luffy

The most hilarious thing about this is Abe honestly has a bigger shot than all of the other candidates listed here.

Thanks, S.T.E.A.M.

 

[papagenos]

While there weren't any Gerudos outside of Gerudo Desert/Valley in OOT, they definitely do leave, because Gossip Stones tell us they do.

Also, with the OOT Gerudo standing guard at the bridge, not letting anyone in, I think it's probably less that the Kingdom of Hyrule have actively banished them to the desert, and more that they live in the desert and are very territorial.

Also, when Young Link puts on the Gerudo mask, there are people who react by saying "YEAAARGH! A GERUDO!" So they're, you know, feared by the Hylians.

Ah ok maybe it was just the gossip stones saying that then. I definitely know that the idea of gerudos leaving the dessert to find men has been a thing since OOT.

 

[Will]

The GC controller announced at e3 is a regular GC controller, and the wii u adapters are coming back into production

Well I guess I'm investing in HORI. I never got the Wii U version, so the whole Adapter shenanigans isn't really my thing.

 

[Ultinarok]

One thing I will give the smash community on these boards is that it seems like everyone's major character picks and most supported fighters are characters that actually have highly tangible reasoning for inclusion. Bandana Dee, K Rool, Isaac, Dixie Kong, Ashley, Banjo, Elma, Rayman, Simon Belmont...even Geno, since Sakurai has shown attention to him with Mii costumes and interviews.

What I'm saying is that I admire that everyone is picking reasonable choices for their most supported characters. Thinking of things like popularity, franchise revitalization, timing of most recent games, actual opinions of Sakurai on record, number of prominent roles in the recent games, the Smash ballot etc. I'm not seeing people vying for characters extensively "just because some people like them". Shows how much these boards have grown and matured. I remember when Krystal was the ONLY viable Starfox entry, and when Geno was supported because he was cool, with no other evidence to suggest he could make it. Of course, supporting these characters has ironically earned them more of the spotlight than before in the franchise so I guess it's not farfetched overall.

Using our logical brains, even with bias added in, is helpful for everyone when it comes to speculation.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So another newcomer acronym game. This time with SPECIAL? Okay.

Simon Belmont
Peppy Hare
Ephraim
Captain K. Rool
Isabelle
Ashley
Lloyd Irving

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Am I the only one hoping for the return of the Trophy Tussle 2 stage?

View attachment 154169
/s

Depends, if I play on this stage, will all the CPU gang up on me? Even if it's supposed to be a free for all?

While there weren't any Gerudos outside of Gerudo Desert/Valley in OOT, they definitely do leave, because Gossip Stones tell us they do.

Also, with the OOT Gerudo standing guard at the bridge, not letting anyone in, I think it's probably less that the Kingdom of Hyrule have actively banished them to the desert, and more that they live in the desert and are very territorial.

Also, when Young Link puts on the Gerudo mask, there are people who react by saying "YEAAARGH! A GERUDO!" So they're, you know, feared by the Hylians.

I'll add my two cents to this conversation. In MM where Ganondorf is completely out of the picture and the Gerudo don't appear to be banished by anyone, they're pirates that attack and steal from people and all of the NPCs are either terrified with them or in love with them.

Also haven't played Four Swords Adventures, but don't the Gerudo banish Ganondorf in that game? I thought I heard that somewhere.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

While there weren't any Gerudos outside of Gerudo Desert/Valley in OOT, they definitely do leave, because Gossip Stones tell us they do.

Also, with the OOT Gerudo standing guard at the bridge, not letting anyone in, I think it's probably less that the Kingdom of Hyrule have actively banished them to the desert, and more that they live in the desert and are very territorial.

Also, when Young Link puts on the Gerudo mask, there are people who react by saying "YEAAARGH! A GERUDO!" So they're, you know, feared by the Hylians.

Maybe it's my sympathy to Ganondorf (specifically WW) that I always saw that as a racisim thing, or more of a miscommunication? Because those gaurds are territorial during Ganondorf's rule and we know there are good Gerudo (Nabooru...probably misspelled). Eh I'm probably bias, but I don't think the Gerudo 100% deserved to be isolated I think it's a bit of both, like most societal issues.

Also Nintendo has made it clear that they make games first, so none of this was probably though through by them lol.

 

[AndreaAC]

I thought he got that title for being able to cheat death numerous times?

:> It can be because of both reasons.

 

[KMDP]

Depends, if I play on this stage, will all the CPU gang up on me? Even if it's supposed to be a free for all?

I'll add my two cents to this conversation. In MM where Ganondorf is completely out of the picture and the Gerudo don't appear to be banished by anyone, they're pirates that attack and steal from people and all of the NPCs are either terrified with them or in love with them.

Also haven't played Four Swords Adventures, but don't the Gerudo banish Ganondorf in that game? I thought I heard that somewhere.

Terminan Gerudo and Hylian Gerudo are not the same though, that goes without saying.

Maybe it's my sympathy to Ganondorf (specifically WW) that I always saw that as a racisim thing, or more of a miscommunication? Because those gaurds are territorial during Ganondorf's rule and we know there are good Gerudo (Nabooru...probably misspelled). Eh I'm probably bias, but I don't think the Gerudo 100% deserved to be isolated I think it's a bit of both, like most societal issues.

Also Nintendo has made it clear that they make games first, so none of this was probably though through by them lol.

Don't worry, you spelled Nabooru right.

Speaking of Nabooru, she actually says herself that she disagrees with the way Ganondorf rules the Gerudo. Just from that we can tell that Ganondorf has a hand in the race's behaviour.

 

[Cosmic77]

View attachment 154174
:> It can be because of both reasons.

Ridley - the king of murder who's ironically also the king of dying.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

The most hilarious thing about this is Abe honestly has a bigger shot than all of the other candidates listed here.

Thanks, S.T.E.A.M.

I hope we can see some type of codename S.T.E.A.M content in ultimate, don't expect a character but I'd love to see Lincoln or Fleming as an assist trophy.

 

[KMDP]

Ridley - the king of murder who's ironically also the king of dying.

Nah, the Joker (the Batman one) is the king of not dying. Ridley's more like a Prince of not dying.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Expanding on Troykv's point, notice that the Gerudo in Breath of the Wild have no problem living in the desert. Ganondorf is the one who makes it a problem when he appears in their society.

To be fair a lot of time passed between OoT and BOTW (Presumably, not sure about the timeline placement), In OoT they basically weren't allowed out of the desert but in BOTW they let one of them be the protector of the princess. I assume a lot of that hatred the gerudo had just got lost over time

 

[Diddy Kong]

that's my biggest problem with BOTW. Calamity Ganon design wasn't that great. it should have been something like this

I miss the old Ganondorf

Yeah and the fight is also piss-easy. I walked into the Sanctum part of Hyrule Castle by incident literally just now.. and already beat him senseles. I had far more problem with the Blight Ganons than the so called "Great Calamity". And his design is also quite.. underwhelming (but knew that before, I spoiled myself). It just feels weird to have Ganon shoot projectiles from a damn laser gun towards you...

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 154174
:> It can be because of both reasons.

Ok, I'm curious.
Do you have a number of these on standby to just enter text for whenever it is needed, or are you just that fast at making these? O_O

 

[elephant13]

Simon Belmont
Pokemon
E. Gadd
Chibi Robo
Isaac
Ashley
Mr. L

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So another newcomer acronym game. This time with SPECIAL? Okay.

Simon Belmont
Peppy Hare
Ephraim
Captain K. Rool
Isabelle
Ashley
Lloyd Irving

Shantae
Penny Crygor
Earthworm Jim
Captain Syrup
Isaac
Adeleine
Lanky Kong

I hope we can see some type of codename S.T.E.A.M content in ultimate, don't expect a character but I'd love to see Lincoln or Fleming as an assist trophy.

That's IF they even get anything. Game bombed so hard, it'd be lucky to be acknowledged with trophies.