Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

A moral compass is not required for a character to be "good".

A personality not locked behind extra material would be a plus, though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, he didn't got his "Cunning God of Death" title for nothing!

xP I adore Ridley's character for the way he is and how much fun he's to work with, that is why I draw him so much, and I may put him displaying emotions and on certain scenarios you would not really see him, but, that's the great thing about imagination.

You got a Deviantart/art Twitter/art Tumblr/etc? I’d like to check out your art!

 

[osby]

You got a Deviantart/art Twitter/art Tumblr/etc? I’d like to check out your art!

Me too! Your icon looks great.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, he didn't got his "Cunning God of Death" title for nothing!

I thought he got that title for being able to cheat death numerous times?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Spring Man
Paper Mario
Elma
Crash
IMPA
Ashley
Long lost King k Rool

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, he didn't got his "Cunning God of Death" title for nothing!

xP I adore Ridley's character for the way he is and how much fun he's to work with, that is why I draw him so much, and I may put him displaying emotions and on certain scenarios you would not really see him, but, that's the great thing about imagination.

Keep up your Ridley drawing, there is no one like you in SmashBoards.

Anyone who calls Ridley a lame villain should ridley rid themselves of this thread.

 

[osby]

Anyone who calls Ridley a lame villain should ridley rid themselves of this thread.

If it's okay with you, I won't.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Well, that part's true though.
Ridley is an irredeemable villain.

He's sadistic, genocidal, murderous, etc. He raids planets and has its inhabitants killed. He has no "morals" to speak of other than "might makes right".

He doesn't have an excuse to be evil like Ganondorf, who is tied by fate to be the way he is because he's an incarnation of Demises' hatred. Ridley just does this because he likes doing it.

EDIT: Not that it's a bad thing he's irredeemable. Some people like that sort of villain in media.

I liked ganondorf a lot more before the Demise's hatred thing happened

 

[Deleted member]

If it's okay with you, I won't.

It is a joke, obsy.
Even though I disagree with you hating on Ridley you can still stay in this thread.

 

[osby]

It is a joke, obsy.
Even though I disagree with you hating on Ridley you can still stay in this thread.

Thank you so much.

 

[Mc.Rad]

I feel like they should show off a mode or something, but that's honestly a thing they would reserve for the "Game's almost out, so lets go over literally everything" trailer for the game that comes out before launch.

 

[KMDP]

You can make a wonderful story even without a villain, but it's a lot harder to accomplish. Establishing that there's a force that wants to stop the player character gives you a compelling sense of determination to defeat that obstacle and win the game.

It depends on what you mean by "villain".

An Antagonist doesn't necessarily have to be Villainous, just opposed to the Protagonist in some way.

Spoiler: Topic unrelated to Smash

It's actually one of the core tenets of Steven Universe; and what Rebecca Sugar meant when she said "there are no villains in the show". Of course, you wouldn't know that from all the people clamoring for the show to get one (looking at you, "The Roundtable"). Jasper, Pink Diamond, Yellow Diamond, and now White Diamond; they are chasing a dragon that doesn't exist, hoping for a character who won't be redeemed, believing that the only way a show can be engaging is if it has a good villain; what they don't realise is that they are already engaged without one, proving the show doesn't need one.

The notion of "A Hero is only as good as their Villain" is an American belief, and not wholly true. The "good/main" villains in Sherlock Holmes and Lord of the Rings (Moriarty and Sauron, respectively) barely appear (and in the case of Sauron, he barely has a character at all); and yet the stories (and main characters) are still incredibly beloved.

Son Goku and Monkey D. Luffy (to name two characters) are not good characters because of their villains, they're good characters because of their personalities. Good foils just enhance and display their qualities more effectively.

Spoiler: Goku and Luffy character descriptions

Son Goku is naive and uneducated (but not necessarily stupid), he is unconcerned with people other than his friends, loves a good fight, and always seeks to become stronger.
Luffy is a man who wants to be free to do whatever he likes, and will go against the world if he thinks the world is wrong. He will fight tooth and nail for those he calls his friends, and while he pretends to be unconcerned with people not his friends, he will right the wrongs he sees in the most direct way possible (usually with liberal application of fist-to-face); he is an excellent judge of character, sees people as individuals and hates being alone. He is incredibly creative in battle; and can make an ally out of anyone.

Spoiler tagged the character descriptions because the Luffy one got a little long. XD

The same actually goes for Batman, who has a strong personality (hard working, determined, stubborn, careful about his morals), his rogues gallery just better display those traits; the villains do not in themselves make Batman a good character.

 

[Mutsukki]

I liked ganondorf a lot more before the Demise's hatred thing happened

Did that really change anything? Ganondorf's still an asshole not some possessed good guy, he can still be mild and less "pure evil" like he was in Wind Waker, I think the only thing Demise change was give an explanation for him to revive everytime.

A personality not locked behind extra material would be a plus, though.

Not every game needs dialogue, I think Ridley's pretty feral and sly by how he appears and interacts in most of these games. The only thing you might miss is that he's actually really smart and not just some dumb dinosaur.

 

[Zerp]

Isn't it crazy that we're only 136 days away from Ultimate's launch and we still don't know whether or not Classic mode is in the game yet?

 

[smashkirby]

Cynthia from Pokémon?
Interesting pick, I never saw someone want her.

Though I would love her actual real theme instead of a boring remix.

Honestly, I've never said it before cause the chances of it happening are slim to none (ESPECIALLY now that Red (and Leaf) are playable), but I strongly support Cynthia being playable in Smash.

 

[osby]

It depends on what you mean by "villain".

An Antagonist doesn't necessarily have to be Villainous, just opposed to the Protagonist in some way.

Spoiler: Topic unrelated to Smash

It's actually one of the core tenets of Steven Universe; and what Rebecca Sugar meant when she said "there are no villains in the show". Of course, you wouldn't know that from all the people clamoring for the show to get one (looking at you, "The Roundtable"). Jasper, Pink Diamond, Yellow Diamond, and now White Diamond; they are chasing a dragon that doesn't exist, hoping for a character who won't be redeemed, believing that the only way a show can be engaging is if it has a good villain; what they don't realise is that they are already engaged without one, proving the show doesn't need one.

The notion of "A Hero is only as good as their Villain" is an American belief, and not wholly true. The "good/main" villains in Sherlock Holmes and Lord of the Rings (Moriarty and Sauron, respectively) barely appear (and in the case of Sauron, he barely has a character at all); and yet the stories (and main characters) are still incredibly beloved.

Son Goku and Monkey D. Luffy (to name two characters) are not good characters because of their villains, they're good characters because of their personalities. Good foils just enhance and display their qualities more effectively.

Spoiler: Goku and Luffy character descriptions

Son Goku is naive and uneducated (but not necessarily stupid), he is unconcerned with people other than his friends, loves a good fight, and always seeks to become stronger.
Luffy is a man who wants to free to do whatever he likes, and will go against the world if he thinks the world is wrong. He will fight tooth and nail for those he calls his friends, and while he pretends to be unconcerned with people not his friends, he will right the wrongs he sees in the most direct way possible (usually with liberal application of fist-to-face); he is an excellent judge of character, sees people as individuals and hates being alone. He is incredibly creative in battle; and can make an ally out of anyone.

Spoiler tagged the character descriptions because the Luffy one got a little long. XD

The same actually goes for Batman, who has a strong personality (hard working, determined, stubborn, careful about his morals), his rogues gallery just better display those traits; the villains do not in themselves make Batman a good character.

Couldn't say it better. Conflict isn't necessary for a good story and when it's present, it doesn't require a character whose whole role is creating said conflict. You can make a good antagonist with positive traits.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So I've been hearing a lot of people say Samus, Zelda, and Ganondorf are still terrible. The latter doesn't surprise me because his poor recovery and slow attacks compensating for his insane power will always be an issue, but the former two? Are those two destined to be bottom tier forever?

I know things can change over the remaining development time, but it's immensely disappointing to see that these two are still considered to be bad (and it's even more insulting for Samus since Ridley will likely be better than her). I was hoping we'd see a massive transition like to , but so far, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Samus isn't even among the worst fighters in Smash 3DS / Wii U though. At worst, she's last place in the D tier, and that's much higher than where Zelda and Ganondorf are located.

 

[justPUNT3R]

Are we shouting Pokemon that we want to be added to Smash now?
...
...
GROVYLE!

I"m apparently not there only one who want Grovyle, and maybe Mt. Pyre ( I forget what that one mountain was called XD) as a stage to go with 'im?







Wait.







This is Nintendo we're talking about.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

What is your stance on Ganondorf and Wolf? Both are also abhorrent. Ganondorf probably equally so as Ridley.

Glad someone brought up Ganondorf. In two of the 3 main story games he's in he's literally just a demon King, very bad guy. If you count Ganon games it's only worse. Just because Ridley doesn't speak doesn't mean he has less personality than Ganondorf (I'd say they have the same).

I like Wolf, especially in the Assault. His Brawl voice was great. Cool eyepatch.
Ganondorf, eh, I liked his previous design more. Though I mostly like him because Wind Waker. Still good character.

But thank you for saying this, WW Ganondorf is best Ganondorf. Really wish we got a toon iteration of him in one of the Smash games. Such a better character and we actually get to see why he does what he does, he just has more depth in that game from the few times you get to interact with him.

I liked ganondorf a lot more before the Demise's hatred thing happened

And then yeah this. I was like ok whatever I'm ignoring this. Much more interesting when it came from a personal place instead of 10,000 Year Curse!!!!

oh yeah something something smash (I really like villians...)

 

[KMDP]

Couldn't say it better. Conflict isn't necessary for a good story and when it's present, it doesn't require a character whose whole role is creating said conflict. You can make a good antagonist with positive traits.

You can have conflict between two good guys, simply because they have differing, but equally valid, beliefs.

The best example is the friction that usually happens when Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent meet. Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice did a terrible job at this because they were trying to make Superman more like Batman, undermining the entire "different personalities" thing.

 

[AustarusIV]

I'm not upset over his inclusion (it finally killed Ridleyboards).
Cutting any character would upset their fans and I don't like that.
I just don't like the character.
He's a well designed character and should stay but if one character had to be cut, my subjective pick would be him.

EDIT: The reason I don't like him that he's a villain with no redeemable qualities whatsoever.

Late, but that’s understandable I suppose. Everyone has their own preferences for villains, and I like Ridley because of those characteristics he has. It makes him seem fresh and different to every other character in the roster.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I mean, antagonists can be anything from a genocidal maniac to someone who makes you think "who really IS the good guy here?" And that variety is good because antagonists would all feel stale af otherwise. If every Nintendo villain was a morally irredeemable sadist like Ridley then I probably wouldn't care as much about Ridley being included (still like the design though). But that's not the case and Ridley occupies his own space among the roster so that's cool with me.

 

[osby]

Late, but that’s understandable I suppose. Everyone has their own preferences for villains, and I like Ridley because of those characteristics he has. It makes him seem fresh and different to every other character in the roster.

That's for sure, there's no other fighter like Ridley, be it moveset or personality.
I just happen to find the latter underwhelming.

Though, I didn't expect to lengthen this topic so much, I thought this place likes to hate characters.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I liked ganondorf a lot more before the Demise's hatred thing happened

Agreed, I liked Ganondorf when he was just out to get revenge for his people being forced out into the desert, it's a lot more interesting than "he's evil because destiny says so"

 

[Idon]

What happened to "I coveted that wind" Ganondorf? Smh, Nintendo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What happened to "I coveted that wind" Ganondorf? Smh, Nintendo.

What happened to Ganondorf past Twilight Princess in general? I really want him in a next Zelda game.

 

[Androobie]

I love Ridley as a villain, personally. Mother Brain and the Metroids are simply working within their programming made by their creators, SA-X do what other organisms do, survive, adapt, and thrive, even if at a freakishly fast rate, same with Phaaze to a degree. Ridley is a villain because he can be, and he has an entire race of amoral and bloodthirsty reptilians willing to rip up anything to get what they want. He's a ******* that you want to kill so badly because his antagonism is personal on top of him being an utterly repugnant creature.

Also, I edited Ridley’s SSBU art to something more simplistic. Tell me what you think.

Spoiler

 

[Idon]

What happened to Ganondorf past Twilight Princess in general? I really want him in a next Zelda game.

Gimme a fourth GDorf, it's been a literal decade.

 

[YoshiandToad]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - Pyra (& Rex)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Samurai Goroh
P - Porky
E - Elma
C - Captain Toad
I - Impa
A - Alakazam
L - Lyndis

I think that's a decent spread. Alakazam is my favourite Pokemon(or the evolution of it) even if I don't think he's a good Smash Bros. newcomer.

​

 

[VillagerX3]

Also, I edited Ridley’s SSBU art to something more simplistic. Tell me what you think.

Spoiler

View attachment 154167

I think the simplistic look is neat on Ridley. It looks cool, and I think, maybe if you added those crystal spike thingies that he stands on (like in his amiibo).

 

[Loz18-Echo]

What happened to Ganondorf past Twilight Princess in general? I really want him in a next Zelda game.

that's my biggest problem with BOTW. Calamity Ganon design wasn't that great. it should have been something like this

I miss the old Ganondorf

 

[Troykv]

Agreed, I liked Ganondorf when he was just out to get revenge for his people being forced out into the desert, it's a lot more interesting than "he's evil because destiny says so"

I had personally though that Demise's curse didn't exactly make him evil out of nothing... but it basically increase his negative feelings about Hylia's Family... But this negativity can't be born out of nothing... after all, how you can increasily hate something if you don't developed a personal opinion in the first place?... it need to be induced somehow... Like's the Family's attitude with the Gerudo.

 

[WallyPalmer]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

Something bad happening to Dedede. That or a Gay romance but I don't imagine a story being romantic, and Nintendo are cowards. Maybe something shippy would be a better term. Corrin x Dark Pit anyone?

 

[Idon]

Something bad happening to Dedede. That or a Gay romance but I don't imagine a story being romantic, and Nintendo are cowards. Maybe something shippy would be a better term. Corrin x Dark Pit anyone?

We all know Corrin's just trying to pass down the dark flier's galeforce onto Kana.

 

[SonicMario]

Isn't it crazy that we're only 136 days away from Ultimate's launch and we still don't know whether or not Classic mode is in the game yet?

On this topic, for some reason I'm almost getting the feeling that perhaps this game's Classic Mode will at first harken back to SSB64's Classic mode with a similar order to the main single player mode of the original game. Though as you unlock more characters it becomes more like Melee's where it's more random in which you fight next.

Given this game will effectively be partly a 20th anniversary celebration of the franchise (Heck in Japan it turns 20 only a month later). I feel they may put a good amount of nods to the first game. Which is already apparent in the starting roster beginning with just the Original 8 or 12. Imagine if they went full-blown recreation of the original's Classic Mode and included like Giant Donkey Kong, Metal Mario, and HD Polygon fighters.

 

[KMDP]

Agreed, I liked Ganondorf when he was just out to get revenge for his people being forced out into the desert, it's a lot more interesting than "he's evil because destiny says so"

I had personally though that Demise's curse didn't exactly make him evil out of nothing... but it basically increase his negative feelings about Hylia's Family... But this negativity can't be born out of nothing... after all, how you can increasily hate something if you don't developed a personal opinion in the first place?... it need to be induced somehow... Like's the Family's attitude with the Gerudo.

Expanding on Troykv's point, notice that the Gerudo in Breath of the Wild have no problem living in the desert. Ganondorf is the one who makes it a problem when he appears in their society.

 

[Deleted member]

that's my biggest problem with BOTW. Calamity Ganon design wasn't that great. it should have been something like this

I miss the old Ganondorf

I actually like the Calamity design.
Not my favorite but I like it.

He feels like a giant statue powered by two things: hatred and revenge.

 

[Idon]

Expanding on Troykv's point, notice that the Gerudo in Breath of the Wild have no problem living in the desert. Ganondorf is the one who makes it a problem when he appears in their society.

To be fair, those are different worlds.

It's entirely possible that the WW Gerudos were treated less than fairly than Zelda's unity focused rule.

 

[Androobie]

He feels like a giant statue powered by one thing: hatred and revenge.

Something isn’t right here...

 

[KMDP]

To be fair, those are different worlds.

It's entirely possible that the WW Gerudos were treated less than fairly than Zelda's unity focused rule.

Well... with the timeline shenanigans, technically they're all the same world. XD (Wind Waker's Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf as the Ocarina of Time one, an artstyle change doesn't change that).

But you're right in that they've in vastly different time periods, and we don't know what the OOT-era Gerudo were like before Ganondorf came into the picture.