Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

People worry about where Smash goes from here but I'd love to see what they could do if they stopped pandering to the Smash community's "don't throw out our old toys" mentality and just shafted half the roster for entirely new characters. Think of it as an opportunity to do something new instead of losing something old. (You can always go back to an older game to play as characters you miss, after all.)

Imagine if Marth was the only FE character guaranteed to be on the roster and they could add anyone else to join him. Leif as a Master Knight who can use an armory by himself or Micaiah as a light mage, or the Black Knight in full armor. If they focused on new characters each game over old ones you'd see a lot more out-there interesting choices. Zelda characters that aren't The Big 3 would finally have a chance of getting in. Each game would have it's Ridley or Snake, a character so good you play the old game just for them.

I mean, I think there's a lot of risk involved there, as well. Veterans don't take as much time to make as newcomers do, so dialing that far back on veterans could lead to a much smaller roster. A veteran and a newcomer surely don't have the same amount of cost-intensiveness. There's also the tremendous risk of things backfiring severely. If they cut a lot of popular mainstays to give some D-List character a chance, I can't see people reacting well. Take your Fire Emblem example. Why cut Ike, the sole most popular character in the franchise, and add Leif, a significantly less popular character and the lord from the least played Japan-only game in the series? Why cut both Awakening characters when Awakening was the game that catapulted Fire Emblem back into the mainstream?

Obviously certain characters are more expendable than others, but cutting the overwhelmingly popular and important mainstays will probably cause a reaction similar to MvC:I.

 

[Zerp]

So I've been hearing a lot of people say Samus, Zelda, and Ganondorf are still terrible. The latter doesn't surprise me because his poor recovery and slow attacks compensating for his insane power will always be an issue, but the former two? Are those two destined to be bottom tier forever?

Clearly, the bottom three in Smash 4 and Brawl's official tier lists are literally just the same three characters flipped around.

And then it gets strange in Project M, where none of them are bottom three yet...

They're still bound together! It's almost creepy, it's like fate itself is keeping them together.

Clearly what this means is that one of these days, the top 3 characters will be Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganondorf in any order, if one is, then they must all be. /s

 

[Deleted member]

Obviously certain characters are more expendable than others, but cutting the overwhelmingly popular and important mainstays will probably cause a reaction similar to MvC:I.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Cutting the X-Men because their film rights are owned by a different studio and then try to cover yourself with the inane "functions" excuse was a brilliant idea. MvC:I is the perfect example of why cutting mass amounts of characters doesn't work.

 

[SquashiniKun]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Apparently Project M's best characters were Meta Knight (natch) and Wolf.

So...

64 Pikachu​

Melee Fox​

Brawl Meta Knight​

PM Wolf​

Smash 4 Bayonetta​

Whoever is best in Ultimate​

The Ultimatest Showdown.

You’re getting how much hell that will cause

So what if the next game had to be reduced to 40 characters

This is probably the most likely result

And it scares me
Returning
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Dk
6. Diddy
7. Link
8. Zelda
9. Ganondorf
10. Samus
11. Ridley
12. Yoshi
13. Kirby
14. King Dedede
15. Meta Knight
16. Fox
17. Falco
18. Pikachu
19. Jigglypuff
20. Lucario
21. Ness
22. Captain Falcon
23. Marth
24. Ike
25. Mr. Game & Watch
26. Pit
27. R.O.B.
28. Olimar
29. Wario
30. Villager
31. Shulk
32. Little Mac
33. Inklings

New
34. Spring Man
35. New Pokemon
36. New Fire Emblem
37. New Xenoblade
38. Impa
39. Some new IP that doesn't exist yet
40. Some new IP that probably does exist and will probably be in Ultimate making them old news anyway. Probably Rhythm Heaven related.

It’d be better for Nintendo to just keep all their characters who are in Ultimate and Sonic if they were to downgrade themselves...or even better...just keep whoever’s able to be kept in Smash and add more characters

I have no idea what you're talking about. Cutting the X-Men because their film rights are owned by a different studio and then try to cover yourself with the inane "functions" excuse was a brilliant idea. MvC:I is the perfect example of why cutting mass amounts of characters doesn't work.

Don’t use sarcasm on the beauty known as Marvel please sir. Marvel is Love and Life

 

[Pyra]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

I get broken down very easily when a game is very well written and clever, even when it's not sad. I also get easily swayed when the game is smart and uses the in-game UI during a cutscene to represent something, like the end of Octo Expansion.

Sad things don't really make me cry more than things I find awesome. Haha

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly re:MvCI? I expected the X-Men to be gone. Disappointed, but not surprised.

What really got me salty was the lack of Deadpool — I don’t give a crap if he was low tier trash, he was entertaining and one of the reasons I got UMvC3 on Steam in the first place! The other reason being from the Capcom side, Phoenix Wright...

MvC just isn’t the same to me without them dammit!

 

[SonicMario]

Clearly, the bottom three in Smash 4 and Brawl's official tier lists are literally just the same three characters flipped around.
View attachment 154156
View attachment 154157
And then it gets strange in Project M, where none of them are bottom three yet...
View attachment 154155
They're still bound together! It's almost creepy, it's like fate itself is keeping them together.

Clearly what this means is that one of these days, the top 3 characters will be Jigglypuff, Zelda and Ganondorf in any order, if one is, then they must all be. /s

That or Jigglypuff switches franchises to the Zelda series

 

[KMDP]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

I'm not brought to tears easily by fiction. So... something really incredible would have to happen.

So what you're saying is the next game will have a Rhythm Heaven character.

Yes, if the next Smash game is "Super Rhythm Bros."

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Honestly re:MvCI? I expected the X-Men to be gone. Disappointed, but not surprised.

What really got me salty was the lack of Deadpool — I don’t give a crap if he was low tier trash, he was entertaining and one of the reasons I got UMvC3 on Steam in the first place! The other reason being from the Capcom side, Phoenix Wright...

MvC just isn’t the same to me without them dammit!

Since Deadpool is also technically an X-Men character, that wasn’t a surprise (still wish he and Wolverine didn’t have to leave that and Lego Marvel 2...feels so empty without them)

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

Half of the characters are cut from existence

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Regarding "where does Smash go from here?"

If they REALLY must cut down the roster, they should AT LEAST disguise it as something else, like say... give it the "OOPS! All Berries" treatment with Pokemon Smash Bros (just Pokemon characters) or Zelda Smash (Only Zelda) or so on and so forth.

Or better yet, lean on a Kid Icarus Uprising joke and make "Super Bash Sisters" with a smaller, all-female roster. Plus, it would be kinda meta in that it would confirm that Palutena was actually right all along, despite Pit attempting to prove that she wasn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly re:MvCI? I expected the X-Men to be gone. Disappointed, but not surprised.

Since Deadpool is also technically an X-Men character, that wasn’t a surprise (still wish he and Wolverine didn’t have to leave that and Lego Marvel 2...feels so empty without them)

Don't worry, once Disney owns the entire entertainment industry Fox, the X-Men can appear in things again!

This is the only plus side to Disney buying Fox, and it's not worth it.

 

[NintenZ]

Honestly re:MvCI? I expected the X-Men to be gone. Disappointed, but not surprised.

What really got me salty was the lack of Deadpool — I don’t give a crap if he was low tier trash, he was entertaining and one of the reasons I got UMvC3 on Steam in the first place! The other reason being from the Capcom side, Phoenix Wright...

MvC just isn’t the same to me without them dammit!

I mean I just wanted Roll back from TvC, but when I saw the launch roster I was disappointed but not at all surprised and mostly indifferent by the end.

 

[Cosmic77]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

I'd don't know if Sakurai would be able to create a story engaging enough to get me emotional, but I'd cry from laughing if he decided to made a gag story that involved all 67 characters teaming up to cut Corrin from the roster and nerf Bayonetta.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Don't worry, once Disney owns the entire entertainment industry Fox, the X-Men can appear in things again!

This is the only plus side to Disney buying Fox, and it's not worth it.

worth getting Marvel back from them (all that’s left is the Spider)

Disney getting most of Marvel and the rest of Star Wars back will be satisfactory (Fox still has Football, Movies, their shows, and soon WWE...all they’ll really care for overall)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Since Deadpool is also technically an X-Men character, that wasn’t a surprise (still wish he and Wolverine didn’t have to leave that and Lego Marvel 2...feels so empty without them)

Half of the characters are cut from existence

Don’t forget being the first sacrifice

For...reasons.

Also, Lego Marvel 2 too? Dang...

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

worth getting Marvel back from them (all that’s left is the Spider)

Disney getting most of Marvel and the rest of Star Wars back will be satisfactory (Fox still has Football, Movies, their shows, and soon WWE...all they’ll really care for overall)

Actually I believe the shows and movies come with the sale. IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, Fox News, the Sports Networks and some other little stuff is getting spun off into a new company while the entertainment end of things (Shows, movies, X-men, FX, NatGeo, etc) are coming into the sale.

Hopefully this means I get a GOOD Alien movie... I want one of those.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

After Smash I want a new crossover series. Not a reboot, but something like a platformer adventure game. Would have been great compatibility with amiibo but I think that ship has sailed...

Also when discussing ROB and stages...anyone find it weird he's the only character to not have a stage background? It could just be a mistake but they've fixed Olimar's name misspelling. And I don't see why they would hide a technically unrevealed stage because we already have that with New Donk City.

I don't see how his stage could represent a character...it's just weird ROB is the only character to lack one.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually I believe the shows and movies come with the sale. IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, Fox News, the Sports Networks and some other little stuff is getting spun off into a new company while the entertainment end of things (Shows, movies, X-men, FX, NatGeo, etc) are coming into the sale.

Yeah, it's everything except sports broadcasting, Fox's TV stations, and Fox News.

 

[Murlough]

ts funny watching this thread talk about the competitive aspect of the game

I'm glad one of us thinks so. "The only thing that makes top tiers "top tiers" is the fact that top players main them."

Yeah, no. False. For example, Nairo started with Pit in 4 and later moved to ZSS. Why did he make that move? Was he just bored of the character? I doubt it considering he's considering Pit again in Ultimate.

Nairo dropped Pit because Pit couldn't cut it against the frame data of the actual top tiers. Sheik, Diddy, and Fox dominated and Pit at top level couldn't cut it. So he swapped to ZSS, a better character, and was able to start winning again.

There are plenty more people who dropped characters because they weren't good enough. Tweek Bowser Jr....are we arguing that the only reason Bowser Jr. is considered bad is because no top players play him? Its a terrible way to look at things and comes across as very naive.

Some characters are straight up made better than others. Top players are top players because they are both amazing at the game and because they don't limit themselves with bad characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm glad one of us thinks so. "The only thing that makes top tiers "top tiers" is the fact that top players main them."

Yeah, no. False. For example, Nairo started with Pit in 4 and later moved to ZSS. Why did he make that move? Was he just bored of the character? I doubt it considering he's considering Pit again in Ultimate.

Nairo dropped Pit because Pit couldn't cut it against the frame data of the actual top tiers. Sheik, Diddy, and Fox dominated and Pit at top level couldn't cut it. So he swapped to ZSS, a better character, and was able to start winning again.

There are plenty more people who dropped characters because they weren't good enough. Tweek Bowser Jr....are we arguing that the only reason Bowser Jr. is considered bad is because no top players play him? Its a terrible way to look at things and cones across as very naive.

Some characters are straight up made better than others. Top players are top players because they are both amazing at the game and because they don't limit themselves with bad characters.

It's why I lack the drive to be a serious competitor. I love going to tournaments and playing against other people, but I play Shulk, and that's not going to get me anywhere.

 

[BlueMagician]

Even if they made a next Smash game with a reduced roster they could still just bring back vets with updates and DLC; they could even announce that's their intention from beginning and avoid the MvCI mess.

 

[RandomAce]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Cutting the X-Men because their film rights are owned by a different studio and then try to cover yourself with the inane "functions" excuse was a brilliant idea. MvC:I is the perfect example of why cutting mass amounts of characters doesn't work.

MVC3/UMVC3 also did that as well.

A majority of the characters from MVC2 were cut after the gargantuan 65 roster. But in return they added in a lot of new characters like Deadpool, Wesker, Phoenix Wright, fan favorites and kept the popular important veterans (especially since MVC3 was bloated with SF fighters).

So if Smash were to learn from MVC, is that if a large part of the roster is cut, they should cut the more expendable ones (the links, clones) and they better have a large amount of newcomers join the roster. Hopefully if there are new series and games with characters to choose from in the upcoming years, then that might not be a problem for the next game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even if they made a next Smash game with a reduced roster they could still just bring back vets with updates and DLC; they could even announce that's their intention from beginning and avoid the MvCI mess.

"You can still get the cut characters! You'll just have to pay for them!" Because that will go well

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I think the best way to go about the next smash is to launch with a much smaller roster but adopt the free update model and have veterans as well as newcomers be added into the game over time.

So if they started with say
or

And then added 5 newcomers for a roster of 30 at launch

 

[Rie Sonomura]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - Pyra (& Rex)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

 

[Deleted member]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

As soon as it starts. I would not be crying because of sadness, but because of the beauty and wonderfulness and the nostalgia.

I would be crying foutains.

In all seriousness I am not a crier and I barely cry. It is really hard for me to cry if I see something sad in a movie. It has to hit hard, and the characters have to be extremely likeable.

 

[RandomAce]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - (no idea)

S - Saac
P - Paac (Pac Man!?)
E - Esaac
C - Caac
I - Isaac
A - Asaac
L - Lasaac

I’m willing to copy jokes and make memes for my wanted newcomer.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

Mario f***ing dies

 

[Zerp]

After Smash I want a new crossover series. Not a reboot, but something like a platformer adventure game. Would have been great compatibility with amiibo but I think that ship has sailed...

Also when discussing ROB and stages...anyone find it weird he's the only character to not have a stage background? It could just be a mistake but they've fixed Olimar's name misspelling. And I don't see why they would hide a technically unrevealed stage because we already have that with New Donk City.

I don't see how his stage could represent a character...it's just weird ROB is the only character to lack one.

That's because Sakurai is a cruel god, R.O.B. isn't allowed to have a home stage since his homeland and the rest of his people have been destroyed, this is his eternal punishment for letting it happen.

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - (no idea)

S - Simon
P - Porky
E - Elma
C - Clefairy
I - Impa
A - Ashley
L - Lycanroc

 

[Zeox]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - (no idea)

S - Skull Kid
P - Porky Minch
E - Elma
C - Cappy
I - Isaac
A - Andy (Advance Wars)
L - Louie

 

[Deleted member]

MVC3/UMVC3 also did that as well.

A majority of the characters from MVC2 were cut after the gargantuan 65 roster. But in return they added in a lot of new characters like Deadpool, Wesker, Phoenix Wright, fan favorites and kept the popular important veterans (especially since MVC3 was bloated with SF fighters).

So if Smash were to learn from MVC, is that if a large part of the roster is cut, they should cut the more expendable ones (the links, clones) and they better have a large amount of newcomers join the roster. Hopefully if there are new series and games with characters to choose from in the upcoming years, then that might not be a problem for the next game.

I think the big problem with Infinite's cuts was that they cut a good portion of the fan favorite characters. In vanilla 3, Strider wasn't in, but he came back in Ultimate (and his absence was due to legal issues or something), and even if the final roster didn't have Mega Man or Venom, they at least retained most of the X-Men characters, and added popular new characters. Infinite also made most of the new characters (and Venom) DLC, which doesn't help things. Of the 10 new characters, five of them were DLC.

So yeah, when Smash has to do mass cuts, be more like MvC3 and less like Infinite.

 

[Opossum]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - (no idea)

S - Simon Belmont
P - Papyrus
E - Elma
C - Chrom
I - Isabelle
A - Anthiese (loophole!)
L - Guess we're getting Lena too.

 

[Cosmic77]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter
S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - (no idea)

S - Spring Man
P - Paper Mario
E - Elma?
C - Champion
I - Isabelle
A - A new DK character (I didn't cheat. )
L - Lycanroc

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Simon
P - Professor E Gadd (I can't think of one and lowkey genuinely want him)
E - Elma
C - Chun-Li
I - Impa
A - Ashley
L - Lyn

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That's because Sakurai is a cruel god, R.O.B. isn't allowed to have a home stage since his homeland and the rest of his people have been destroyed, this is his eternal punishment for letting it happen.

I am absolutely headcannoning this is why ROB doesn't have a home stage in the background, he has no home. Not anymore.

 

[osby]

I'd don't know if Sakurai would be able to create a story engaging enough to get me emotional, but I'd cry from laughing if he decided to made a gag story that involved all 67 characters teaming up to cut Corrin from the roster and nerf Bayonetta.

I'd like that if they team up to cut Ridley and buff Jigglypuff.

 

[Logo12]

QUESTION

If Smash Ultimate were to have a story mode, what would happen in it get you to cry?

At this point just the fact that it happens would make me cry

It would be another item on my pipe dream list checked off, after "everyone is back", so

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S - Simon Belmont
P - Petey Piranha
E - Elma
C - Cranky Kong
I - Isabelle
A - Aeron from Pandora's Tower
L - Lip

 

[Deleted member]

New game!

Remember the “newcomer for each letter of ULTIMATE” thing? It’s the same but this time for SPECIAL, which is Smash Ultimate’s Japanese subtitle. One newcomer whose name starts with each letter.

S - Simon
P - (I have no idea who to use here)
E - Elma
C - Chorus Kids
I - Isaac
A - Ashley
L - ...Lip?

S: Simon
P: Paper Mario I guess.
E: Elma
C: Chrom
I: Issac or Isabelle
A: Ashley or
L: Lloyd or Lycanroc