Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Just in case Smash Switch is merely a port with content that's not in the 3DS and Wii U versions, I didn't go too overboard with my roster image.

Why not just make two in that case? One for a port and one for a totally new one.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why not just make two in that case? One for a port and one for a totally new one.

At the moment, I can't think of anything for a non-port that would make sense.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

At the moment, I can't think of anything for a non-port that would make sense.

It's speculation, it doesn't have to make sense tbh

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

You guys seem to miss the forest for the trees with these predictions.

They don't always just put who you expect in the game. Some characters come entirely out of left field that you would have never anticipated in a billion years, sometimes even from IP that are already represented in the roster. Things like Robin, or Palutena, or Dark Pit. Completely bonkers characters like Game & Watch and Duck Hunt.

I'm not about to start my own prediction list just yet but if I were to make one I'd put in more bizarre picks like Mona from Warioware or F-Type from Stunt Race FX. Perhaps even the Mach Rider, or King Hippo.

I mean I'm sure some characters are practically shoe-ins at this point, like Takamaru and K. Rool. But you know, I'm just saying to expect the unexpected.

I don’t see Mona anytime soon. I’d see Ashley before her simply due to Ashley’s popularity in Japan.

I understand what you mean though about of the wall choices. I have the Arcade Bunny on my roster. He’d almost represent the Nintendo Fan itself. I imagine his moveset being completely wacky and nostalgic moveset taking elements from major Nintendo franchises and even lesser known ones. Also, badges.

 

[UserKev]

I am all for it. I want all the third parties to come back. Sonic, Ryu, Cloud, even Snake. It's an honor for them to join in.

This makes Smash games like a big event in of themselves. I'd be so happy if it just ballooned into a huge celebration of video games every time.

I was against most of these characters but, I don't mind anymore. They make Smash more interesting. Definitely bring back, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu, Sonic and Snake. Nothing against Bayo and Cloud. Their still somewhat out of place to me.

 

[Megadoomer]

I was against most of these characters but, I don't mind anymore. They make Smash more interesting. Definitely bring back, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Ryu, Sonic and Snake. Nothing against Bayo and Cloud. Their still somewhat out of place to me.

I can understand Cloud (though when it comes to Final Fantasy characters, he's going to be the first one that comes to mind for a lot of people, if not most of them), but with Bayonetta, both Platinum Games and Sega have close ties to Nintendo. Two of the three games in her franchise are exclusive to Nintendo systems, and she was popular enough among the Nintendo fanbase to do extremely well in Europe and North America for the Smash Ballot. She may not have the same history as the other third party characters, but there's still plenty of reasons to bring her back.

 

[N3ON]

It's speculation, it doesn't have to make sense tbh

That’d be an ideal roster. A speculative roster should be predicated on some form of predictive reasoning...

 

[SlickWylde]

I've really been thinking that they're going to release a straight port for the Switch. But the longer it takes for us to hear about it, the more I start to think they're either creating a whole new game, or actually going to add something to a port.

I'd be surprised if they release a port after 2018, so I think if we don't hear about it within the next 6 months, it's going to be a new game releasing in 2019 or 2020.

Thoughts?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I've really been thinking that they're going to release a straight port for the Switch. But the longer it takes for us to hear about it, the more I start to think they're either creating a whole new game, or actually going to add something to a port.

I'd be surprised if they release a port after 2018, so I think if we don't hear about it within the next 6 months, it's going to be a new game releasing in 2019 or 2020.

Thoughts?

I agree completely. If there is a direct in January that is detailing what to expect this year for the Switch, or atleast leading up to Spring. We’ll get a new game in 2020 most likely. There’s normally 6-7 years between Switch games. However, that being said, I also find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn’t put a Smash on the Switch, AND that they would wait toward the end of the Switch’s lifecycle to add a Smash game. I think they learned from doing that with the Wii U.

It’s really a toss up.

 

[N3ON]

I've really been thinking that they're going to release a straight port for the Switch. But the longer it takes for us to hear about it, the more I start to think they're either creating a whole new game, or actually going to add something to a port.

I'd be surprised if they release a port after 2018, so I think if we don't hear about it within the next 6 months, it's going to be a new game releasing in 2019 or 2020.

Thoughts?

I know we just got what seems to be a near direct port of Bayo 2, but from the past statements given, and general precedent, it does seem like Nintendo typically opts to enhance ports rather than just pump out an unchanged version. I don't have the quote on hand, but Reggie basically said as much.

Given that, the time passed since the last title, how much hype characters create, and the fact that it seems entirely possible they could've been worked on concurrently with the DLC, I'm given to think the Smash 4 port (which I believe exists and will be released in 2018) will feature at least a few additional characters and perhaps some consolidated content between the two versions.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I know we just got what seems to be a near direct port of Bayo 2, but from the past statements given, and general precedent, it does seem like Nintendo typically opts to enhance ports rather than just pump out an unchanged version. I don't have the quote on hand, but Reggie basically said as much.

Given that, the time passed since the last title, how much hype characters create, and the fact that it seems entirely possible they could've been worked on concurrently with the DLC, I'm given to think the Smash 4 port (which I believe exists and will be released in 2018) will feature at least a few additional characters and perhaps some consolidated content between the two versions.

Agreed. If there is a Smash 4 port, it’ll be enhanced for sure. I see 5 new characters and a combination of stages from both versions, and some new stages. Lastly, I see Smash Run on the Switch.

 

[Deleted member]

It seems like everyone wants this big roster with Pyra, Decidueye, Ridley, Daisy and a bunch of other characters.

It would be cool for us, the players, but for the dev team, it would be hell. It would mean balancing everyone and having a decent amount of newcomers to counteract the cuts (because there will likely be cuts). Not to mention balancing everything.

^
This.

You got to agree with @5T00PiD UNiK0ЯИ 凶 . I would not mind if they only added one character or even none. It is actually really hard for a person and their team to program a character to not be too powerful or too weak. I said earlier that Melee was so hard to develop and create that Sakurai fainted and had to be transported to the emergency room when Melee was finished. If Smash Brothers Switch comes out with only a few characters, do not be disappointed. Be glad that a new Smash game happened and that Smash Brothers exists. It would be pretty interesting to get a new character roster, but you must always think of the development team. Thank Sakurai and his team for putting all of this hard effort for Smash Brothers existing and this website existing, as well as those satisfying combos in Smash Brothers.

 

[PsychoJosh]

At this time I don't really see the point in them making a SSB4 port anymore. It might've been good to have around the switch launch but considering they haven't even announced it yet, I think they missed their window to act on that port.

They might as well just make a new sequel entirely. Especially if they're going to be adding new characters. They should just start fresh while bringing back all the third parties from the last game.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

It seems like everyone wants this big roster with Pyra, Decidueye, Ridley, Daisy and a bunch of other characters.

^
This.

You got to agree with @5T00PiD UNiK0ЯИ 凶 . I would not mind if they only added one character or even none. It is actually really hard for a person and their team to program a character to not be too powerful or too weak. I said earlier that Melee was so hard to develop and create that Sakurai fainted and had to be transported to the emergency room when Melee was finished. If Smash Brothers Switch comes out with only a few characters, do not be disappointed. Be glad that a new Smash game happened and that Smash Brothers exists. It would be pretty interesting to get a new character roster, but you must always think of the development team. Thank Sakurai and his team for putting all of this hard effort for Smash Brothers existing and this website existing, as well as those satisfying combos in Smash Brothers.

While it is difficult to do, it wouldn’t be impossible given adequate time. The Smash games are normally in development for years. Balancing issues always arise. That why we have patch after patch after patch. No game is perfect upon its initial release. The roster always grows. It’s a hallmark of the series. It keeps the gameplay fresh by adding new faces and movesets to match. I could see it not growing exponentially larger, but not growing at all? Impossible.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It seems like everyone wants this big roster with Pyra, Decidueye, Ridley, Daisy and a bunch of other characters.

Decidueye is an overrated character on my end, especially since it hasn't even appeared in the TV series yet. And by the time a new Smash Bros. sequel is made, the 7th generation will more than likely be ignored.

 

[Wolfie557]

Agreed. If there is a Smash 4 port, it’ll be enhanced for sure. I see 5 new characters and a combination of stages from both versions, and some new stages. Lastly, I see Smash Run on the Switch.

What if they do it sorta like Splatoon 2? Like a half port half new game or a super enhanced port that they decided to call it a sequel basically but with that's stupid "for switch" name. I know Splatoon 2 is completely new but they could make a new game with reusing the engine and models etc....while bringing back most content. If that makes sense.

In this scenario we could see like 10 newcomers and lots of new stages along with remastered versions of smash run and 3ds stages etc and potentially DLC free or not later on...

 

[N3ON]

It seems like everyone wants this big roster with Pyra, Decidueye, Ridley, Daisy and a bunch of other characters.

Those are rather divisive characters.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

What if they do it sorta like Splatoon 2? Like a half port half new game or a super enhanced port that they decided to call it a sequel basically but with that's stupid "for switch" name. I know Splatoon 2 is completely new but they could make a new game with reusing the engine and models etc....while bringing back most content. If that makes sense.

In this scenario we could see like 10 newcomers and lots of new stages along with remastered versions of smash run and 3ds stages etc and potentially DLC free or not later on...

I could see that. A combined port “For Switch” that gets more content downloaded to it over time to make it The Smash game for the Switch while secretly working on an entirely new installment for the Switch’s successor.

 

[Deleted member]

While it is difficult to do, it wouldn’t be impossible given adequate time. The Smash games are normally in development for years. Balancing issues always arise. That why we have patch after patch after patch. No game is perfect upon its initial release. The roster always grows. It’s a hallmark of the series. It keeps the gameplay fresh by adding new faces and movesets to match. I could see it not growing exponentially larger, but not growing at all? Impossible.

I do not think I said it would not grow. You do make a valid point about it growing, the roster does always grow and it always makes the game interesting. I admit I hope that the Smash team gives us a good roster. What I am trying to say is that Smash players should stop saying stuff like "I hate this character!" or "I want this character in Smash! This stinks!". I just do not want the Smash community to be arrogant and be thankful instead of complaining about the characters and wanting too much. I say this a million times, good post!

Those are rather divisive characters.

Those characters I mentioned were examples on what characters want. Why do you think it would be divisive, everyone who wanted the characters I mentioned would all be pleased.

Some one is probably going to say but what about the community that hates the character in the new Smash Brothers game? Hmm...

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I do not think I said it would not grow. You do make a valid point about it growing, the roster does always grow and it always makes the game interesting. I admit I hope that the Smash team gives us a good roster. What I am trying to say is that Smash players should stop saying stuff like "I hate this character!" or "I want this character in Smash! This stinks!". I just do not want the Smash community to be arrogant and be thankful instead of complaining about the characters and wanting too much. I say this a million times, good post!



Those characters I mentioned were examples on what characters want. Why do you think it would be divisive, everyone who wanted the characters I mentioned would all be pleased.

Some one is probably going to say but what about the community that hates the character in the new Smash Brothers game? Hmm...

Okay. I get a better understanding of what you are saying now. Unfortunately the Smash community is divided on many facets. Which characters should/shouldn’t/deserve to be in. I don’t understand the backing behind some characters. When people want characters like Daisy or Waluigi it just baffles me. I can’t grasp why. To me it feels like it would muddy up the roster when more unique, relevant, and deserving choices could be made to actual expand the diversity of the game.

I posted my prediction roster a page or two back. I honestly feel like it could happen. I followed a very strict rule of guidelines. Some said by Sakurai himself and some made up by the Smash Community that seem to be plausible. Please look and let me know what you think.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Those are rather divisive characters.

It's funny, characters are only divisive until they actually show up in the game, then everyone gets over it quickly.

I still remember all the debate over Bayonetta long before she was revealed as the ballot winner.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay. I get a better understanding of what you are saying now. Unfortunately the Smash community is divided on many facets. Which characters should/shouldn’t/deserve to be in. I don’t understand the backing behind some characters. When people want characters like Daisy or Waluigi it just baffles me. I can’t grasp why. To me it feels like it would muddy up the roster when more unique, relevant, and deserving choices could be made to actual expand the diversity of the game.

I posted my prediction roster a page or two back. I honestly feel like it could happen. I followed a very strict rule of guidelines. Some said by Sakurai himself and some made up by the Smash Community that seem to be plausible. Please look and let me know what you think.

I defiently agree with the "muddy up the roster"; I think a Smash Brothers game should have a nice diversity like an ecosystem in the world. Waluigi is unique though. I do agree that people should stop complaining about characters and them being removed in Smash. Getting a new character is a big upgrade for the game's status in my opinion.

This is a roster I created not too long ago that I feel would be totally plausible for Smash 5. This is if it’s a completely new game, NOT A PORT.

That being said, I even have issues with it, and I made it. I took into account a few rules/ stipulations.

1. It’s Sakurai’s game, and at the end of the day, he’ll add who he feels belongs/deserves it. (Reason behind the abundance of Fire Emblem characters as he loves the franchise. It doesn’t matter if we feel they should be there or not.)

2. Sakurai has previously stated that characters with unique movesets are important to his vision of the game (in more or less words). So, I don’t see characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Shulk, etc going anywhere. This also ties in with the addition of new characters.

3. While it is Sakurai’s game, he does somewhat listen to fans, and can/has/will give into fan service. It’s a quick, cheap, and assured way to make people want the game.

4. I did this roster with the idea of it being the final Smash game. (Atleast on Sakurai’s end. As I know Smash will probably never die.)

5. Smash has made some characters it’s own in a sense. I.e. Falco, Sheik, Lucario, Captain Falcon, etc.

There are 22 Newcomers in all (8 are DLC)
The “?” are as follows
Metroid Prime 4 rep
Pokémon Switch rep
Fire Emblem Switch rep
Rex & Pyra/Mythra
And 3 spaces for “new” franchises whether they be new IP from Nintendo or DLC.

DLC is as follows:
Ridley
K. Rool
Lucina
Wolf
Cloud
Monster Hunter
New IP
New IP

Please ask me why I have added some characters, and left others out. I’d love to CIVILY discuss why.

Let me know what you think of this roster in general. I know it’s quite large, but Smash gets bigger with ever iteration, and at some point the roster could get a little mulled if the character additions are too much. I feel like I’ve got the right balance though. An 80 icon select screen.

*Edit: Marshal is in place of Tibby because I couldn’t find a picture. Felyne is in place of Monster Hunter because I couldn’t find a picture. Same for Rex & Pyra.

Character alts are as follows:
Bowser Jr. (Koopalings)
Olimar (Pikmin 4 protagonist or Alph)
Spring Man (Ribbon Girl)

Male/Female variations:
Robin
Corrin
Villager
Inkling
Wii Fit Trainer
Mii Fighters
Monster Hunter
Hero/Heroine (Dragon Quest)

Also, I have ideas for changes that could possibly be made to the game (i.e. Final Smash changes, Items, Modes.)

I will answer back on your guidelines.
( I apoligize if it looks a bit unorganized. )

1. Good point, it is Sakurai's game. I mean he and his team are allowed to add anything they want with Nintendo and the other company's approval, so that sounds like a good guideline to me.

2. Characters with unique move sets and abilities is what makes Smash fun. The diversity of the game completely helps it out a lot like a world ecosystem. So are you saying that Sakurai will probably not remove characters yet ( Wii Fit, Little Mac, Shulk ) or they will be leaving? I think they should stay, it contributes to the diversity.

3. I am sure Sakurai will listen to his fans, that is one of the reasons why Sonic was added in Brawl ( and Sega probably wanted him in Smash ). Sakurai does let his fans choose because of Smash Ballot where we got Bayonetta from.

4. You did? I feel like a final Smash game would have a ton of characters. A final Smash game's appearance is unexpected but I think Smash will stay for a while.. Splendid roster though.

5. True. Greninja was made by Sakurai only using the beta images of it and his team and himself imagined Greninja's moveset. Since Falco, Sheik, Lucario and Captain Falcon do not have enough evidence from their games to make them a repeatable character in the series, I think it was necessary for the development team to imagine their own move set. Now we got all of these entertaining characters.


I have decided to look into your roster.
Keep in mind this is my own opinion, I am actually thankful for you replying to me.
Can I see the new items, modes, changes and final smash ideas? ( That would take a lot of work though ). Sounds very interesting. Would Knuckles be an option? I mean Knuckles was originally going to be in Project M so him in the new Smash game would be neat. I feel like the Sonic series should at least get one character, because for a large series and rivalry with the famous Mario series Sonic deserves a comrade. Though Nintendo and Sakurai would have to discuss Sega about that. Now you intrigued me to make a new Subspace. Especially with a character this large, a subspace in this game with proper editing and acting would be a lot better than Brawl's Subspace Emissary. I personally thought Subspace in Brawl was a little too easy ( even in Intense Mode ) and Tabuu was not good enough of an antagonist. I would love Marshadow in the next Smash brothers game but it is definitely not as popular as the likes of Decuideye and Lycanroc. Also for the items they should make it a 1/8192 or 1/4096 chance of getting a shiny pokemon in a Pokeball, it would make the Pokeball a lot more interesting and entertaining. The roster is actually solid and the only characters you should get rid off is the Badge Bunny and Isabelle, it feels kind of strange to put those two in a Smash brothers game in my opinion. Where's Snake? Do you have an explanation about why Snake is not in the game? I personally liked Snake, ah well. Overall, great roster!

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

It's funny, characters are only divisive until they actually show up in the game, then everyone gets over it quickly.

I still remember all the debate over Bayonetta long before she was revealed as the ballot winner.

Everyone has their own issues regarding potential characters and then, suddenly, they are fine with it or even excited after they are revealed. Well, most characters that is. Are people still angry over Dark Pit?

Prior Greninja being revealed, he was too recent and not iconic enough. Prior to Little Mac and Ryu, they had little Moveset potential. Rosalina was too minor of a character. Robin was a player avatar. Duck Hunt walked on too feet. Sonic was apart of Sega, ROB was a video game accessory. Etc etc. now they are Smash canon.

Changing the subject, Injustice 2 totally sold me on the concept that you can have two characters sharing he same model. The Flash and Reverse-Flash, Cheetah and Vixen, Supergirl and Powergirl, Captain Cold and Mister Freeze. Raiden and Black Thunder. Of course, the characters need to be alike in body size and abilities to make sense during game play but I think that’s a Smash 5 could do the same thing. Smash 4 did do it with Alpha and Olimar but I remember hearing that Sakurai was thinking of having Alpha as a seperate character. Here’s some ideas:

Mario and Doctor Mario
Peach and Daisy
Luigi and Mr L
Captain Toad and Toadette
Link and Dark Link
Shiek and Impa
Pit and Dark Pit
Palutena and Medusa
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Lucina
Marth and Chrom
Donkey Kong and Funky Kong
Samus and Dark Samus
Meta Knight and Galacta Knight

Just to name a few

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Everyone has their own issues regarding potential characters and then, suddenly, they are fine with it or even excited after they are revealed. Well, most characters that is. Are people still angry over Dark Pit?

Prior Greninja being revealed, he was too recent and not iconic enough. Prior to Little Mac and Ryu, they had little Moveset potential. Rosalina was too minor of a character. Robin was a player avatar. Duck Hunt walked on too feet. Sonic was apart of Sega, ROB was a video game accessory. Etc etc. now they are Smash canon.

Changing the subject, Injustice 2 totally sold me on the concept that you can have two characters sharing he same model. The Flash and Reverse-Flash, Cheetah and Vixen, Supergirl and Powergirl, Captain Cold and Mister Freeze. Raiden and Black Thunder. Of course, the characters need to be alike in body size and abilities to make sense during game play but I think that’s a Smash 5 could do the same thing. Smash 4 did do it with Alpha and Olimar but I remember hearing that Sakurai was thinking of having Alpha as a seperate character. Here’s some ideas:

Mario and Doctor Mario
Peach and Daisy
Luigi and Mr L
Captain Toad and Toadette
Link and Dark Link
Shiek and Impa
Pit and Dark Pit
Palutena and Medusa
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Lucina
Marth and Chrom
Donkey Kong and Funky Kong
Samus and Dark Samus
Meta Knight and Galacta Knight

Just to name a few

It's unknown why Alph didn't overall become a character, but some thoughts include that Rock Pikmin were too hard to make work well(plus, the model would take longer to animate than something as simple as the other 3 clones, who are far more simplistic in design), especially with the fact that they need to be unique enough from Purple Pikmin. Another thing to note is that Alph and Olimar play alike in their home series, so he still works very well as an alt compared to some others. What I'd like to see, if they don't get a bunch of new Pikmin(around 4 more? I think Olimar uses 5 for his Neutral B now, being Red, Blue, Yellow, White, and Purple), having Alph use remodels of the Purple Pikmin into Rock Pikmin could be an ideal setup. Same with remodeling his ship for the Final Smash. At the very least, this separates them.

That said, if you're talking about unique movesets while sharing the same model, unless Sakurai can find a way to make the player data recognizes costumes separately for the purpose of battle records, it won't happen. And it sucks too. I think he might be able to, as he had Zelda/Sheik together in Melee and Brawl. I don't remember if you could see separate data for them though. My guess is there was no need to do so due to the fact they're transformations. On the other hand, he did implement it in a way by forcing you to get separate trophies for Zelda/Sheik(etc.) in Classic and All-Star. The fact you needed to beat both modes with both characters sucked a lot. So I don't know how he would do it.

Regardless, for anyone who can have unique moves, they should, whether it's a costume swap option(akin to some hidden characters in various fighting games) or a separate roster spot, they should play differently if possible. I do agree, as many said, that Dark Pit should be a bit more unique. I don't mind him being a clone, but having a severe minimum of differences is kind of annoying too.

It's funny, characters are only divisive until they actually show up in the game, then everyone gets over it quickly.

I still remember all the debate over Bayonetta long before she was revealed as the ballot winner.

Even on these forums, some characters continued to be hated/disliked/overall not accepted as well. Some refuse to accept Cloud as the rpg icon. Some can't even accept Bayonetta won the Smash Ballot fair and square. And so on. People will never let some stuff go, and it's just what it is. Everybody's got their opinions on it(and that's not an issue anyway, unless voiced in a way that break's this sites rules, that is). Or whatever rules of whatever site they voice it in.

 

[N3ON]

It's funny, characters are only divisive until they actually show up in the game, then everyone gets over it quickly.

I still remember all the debate over Bayonetta long before she was revealed as the ballot winner.

I agree with that, and I've already spent what feels like an unnecessary amount of energy belabouring that point before.

Suffice it to say, I feel it speaks to the moral integrity of the speculators when the people who don't turn their opinions on a dime are the ones that get chastised.

Some refuse to accept Cloud as the rpg icon.

It's not that, that's pretty uncontested. It's not like people who don't want to see Master Chief included dispute his status as an iconic gaming character. It seems mostly that people don't feel that was reason enough a character with only loose ties to Nintendo and strong ties to Sony should belong in a Nintendo crossover. There were similar sentiments about Snake (he also faced criticism of not fitting the aesthetic). People feel they don't fit, because some view Smash as a crossover for Nintendo characters and Nintendo-oriented third-parties.

And to be honest, if not for the exceptions like those aforementioned characters, that seems like a perspective that would get heavily, heavily defended. It's no coincidence the third-parties actually requested in these kind of circles have almost uniformly been ones with strong Nintendo ties. This Smash fanbase just seems like the sort that would extol the "Nintendo factor" should there not be explicit evidence to the contrary. I mean they all but did before; it pretty much took Cloud ****ing Strife to finally dispel the notion.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I would've gone for Terra or Kefka over Cloud. But I can see the reasoning behind them choosing him, he's probably the most well-known character in the whole series.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I’m just saucy we didn’t get much FF content like trophies and such. Definitely would of love to see Sephiroth andvthe summons as trophies. And One Winged Angel for music.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I’m just saucy we didn’t get much FF content like trophies and such. Definitely would of love to see Sephiroth andvthe summons as trophies. And One Winged Angel for music.

Then can you imagine my sauce boiling up for the extreme lack of Donkey Kong Country content except for a new stage, which is still just another Jungle stage based on the first level of the newest Donkey Kong Country game at that time?

 

[Deleted member]

Is anyone going to talk about a new Subspace? As I said In my earlier post, I liked Brawl's a lot. The Subspace even in Intense mode is easy. I just wish it was a long adventure, but I understand that would he hard to develop. Tabuu was also kind of disappointing as a boss and atagonist. They do not have to talk at all, but Tabuu could have been a much harder boss ( and I tired Intense mode ), and Tabuu could have done a much better with character. When I see a subspace, I think I should see a villain with great character development. I hope they pull it off well in the Switch subspace, especially with all the new potential characters that would be added. It would be really enjoyable to watch their reactions to each other the other places and funny moments, even know Brawl kind of did that. I think the new Smash brothers game has a lot more potential than Brawl. I just hope that the Subspace has a lot more depth and it feels like more of a movie and game mixed together.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I defiently agree with the "muddy up the roster"; I think a Smash Brothers game should have a nice diversity like an ecosystem in the world. Waluigi is unique though. I do agree that people should stop complaining about characters and them being removed in Smash. Getting a new character is a big upgrade for the game's status in my opinion.




I will answer back on your guidelines.
( I apoligize if it looks a bit unorganized. )

1. Good point, it is Sakurai's game. I mean he and his team are allowed to add anything they want with Nintendo and the other company's approval, so that sounds like a good guideline to me.

2. Characters with unique move sets and abilities is what makes Smash fun. The diversity of the game completely helps it out a lot like a world ecosystem. So are you saying that Sakurai will probably not remove characters yet ( Wii Fit, Little Mac, Shulk ) or they will be leaving? I think they should stay, it contributes to the diversity.

3. I am sure Sakurai will listen to his fans, that is one of the reasons why Sonic was added in Brawl ( and Sega probably wanted him in Smash ). Sakurai does let his fans choose because of Smash Ballot where we got Bayonetta from.

4. You did? I feel like a final Smash game would have a ton of characters. A final Smash game's appearance is unexpected but I think Smash will stay for a while.. Splendid roster though.

5. True. Greninja was made by Sakurai only using the beta images of it and his team and himself imagined Greninja's moveset. Since Falco, Sheik, Lucario and Captain Falcon do not have enough evidence from their games to make them a repeatable character in the series, I think it was necessary for the development team to imagine their own move set. Now we got all of these entertaining characters.


I have decided to look into your roster.
Keep in mind this is my own opinion, I am actually thankful for you replying to me.
Can I see the new items, modes, changes and final smash ideas? ( That would take a lot of work though ). Sounds very interesting. Would Knuckles be an option? I mean Knuckles was originally going to be in Project M so him in the new Smash game would be neat. I feel like the Sonic series should at least get one character, because for a large series and rivalry with the famous Mario series Sonic deserves a comrade. Though Nintendo and Sakurai would have to discuss Sega about that. Now you intrigued me to make a new Subspace. Especially with a character this large, a subspace in this game with proper editing and acting would be a lot better than Brawl's Subspace Emissary. I personally thought Subspace in Brawl was a little too easy ( even in Intense Mode ) and Tabuu was not good enough of an antagonist. I would love Marshadow in the next Smash brothers game but it is definitely not as popular as the likes of Decuideye and Lycanroc. Also for the items they should make it a 1/8192 or 1/4096 chance of getting a shiny pokemon in a Pokeball, it would make the Pokeball a lot more interesting and entertaining. The roster is actually solid and the only characters you should get rid off is the Badge Bunny and Isabelle, it feels kind of strange to put those two in a Smash brothers game in my opinion. Where's Snake? Do you have an explanation about why Snake is not in the game? I personally liked Snake, ah well. Overall, great roster!

When talking about characters with unique movesets (Wii Fit Trainer, Shulk, Little Mac, etc) I meant that their uniqueness is what will save them from being cut in my eye. Sakurai has put a lot of emphasis on uniqueness and how important it is to him for the game to have diversity. I always see people saying Shulk will be cut, or Wii Fit Trainer will be cut, and I feel like it comes from a place of bias/ that person not personally liking that character. The reasons have no merit. There are a few characters I don’t like. Personally, I hate Shulk. I hate Robin. I hate Little Mac. It’s personal though because I constantly lose to them.

Of course Sakurai, and Nintendo will listen to fans. It ensures the game will sell. “Oh, you’ve wanted this character since the beginning of time? WELL THEY’RE FINALLY HERE!” However, (before this gets misconstrued), I believe the character has to have some sort of valid, relevant, iconic, and/or realizable before even being considered as a possibility if fans or clamoring for them. So, I still don’t see Daisy, Waluigi, and others making it in when they are better options to invest time into developing.

I feel like I’ve put an abundance of characters on my roster. I feel a roster with 100+ characters would be excessive. Again, I feel like it’s muddying up the roster at that point. Even with my own roster, I felt like I was pushing it. The most characters I could ever see on the roster for a single iteration of Smash is the 85-90. At that point it just becomes an issue of balancing and making sure there’s enough diversity. I know some fighting games have gigantic rosters of 150+ characters. However, A LOT of those characters share moves and abilities, and have roots in the same base movements. I think Smash is here to stay, but when it comes to Sakurai making them, I think it’s days are numbered. Once the series moves to a new director, we may see MAJOR cuts, and see the series move in a different direction while Sakurai places more of a mentor/overseer role in its development.

Also, what I meant by certain characters being “Smash” characters is that they are so ingrained into the Smash community that if they were removed it would cause an uproar. You are also correct in that Sakurai has developed those characters into who they are.

Now, for defending my character choices.

When it comes to a 3rd Party series getting a second character, I feel uneasy. The series isn’t a Nintendo franchise, and while Smash is celebration of gaming and gaming icons, its a Nintendo game. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but very, very, unlikely. However, if the Sonic franchise where to get a second character I believe it would be Knuckles or Shadow. Those choices have no basing in Project: M though as that was a fan game, and not a true Smash installment.

I didn’t add Snake, because it was Kojima who got him in, but it was while he was still with Konami. Kojima made the character, and asked Sakurai to add him in as a favor. (Which he did.) Sadly, when Kojima left Konami, he lost the rights to Snake. Konami owns Snake, Kojima just made him. Unless Konami comes around, and gives Nintendo/Sakurai the rights, then and only then will he make it back in.

As for Isabelle and the Arcade Bunny (Baito), I added Isabelle because Animal Crossing is a huge Nintendo franchise, and Isabelle is extremely popular with the Japanese audience, and fairly popular in the West. There were elements in Animal Crossing not used by the Villager that she could use. Ultimately, she’d be the Villager’s “Luigi” counterpart. She’d have a base in Villager, but be unique enough to be considered her own.

As for the Arcade Bunny, Sakurai always adds that wacky, off-the-wall, character that you’d never even considered to come to Smash. He is an odd choice, and he is unlikely, but there’s just something about him. I don’t know if you ever played the Badge Arcade, but that Bunny is obsessed with all things Nintendo. His personality is amazingly exuberant as well. He’d represent the Nintendo fan itself, and come from an entirely new franchise. I will make his moveset in another post, as well as an items/Modes/changes post. His moves would based around using the badges, and using moves from other characters from major franchises and other facets of Nintendo as well. It’s difficult to explain without detailing his moveset.

 

[Luminario]

The roster is actually solid and the only characters you should get rid off is the Badge Bunny and Isabelle, it feels kind of strange to put those two in a Smash brothers game in my opinion.

Leave my girl Issy alone.
In all seriousness though, Isabelle has the popularity, potential, and the relevancy to get into Smash easily, and with Sakurai straying further from the "fighters must be a fighter" rule from Brawl I'd honestly be surprised if she doesn't show up as playable.
Onto Badge Bunny, while I feel Nikki would be more suited to being a 3DS console rep with Bunny being in her moveset, he's pretty suited to being the console rep too, and he's pretty recognisable. Like SmashStephen said he's also got the badges for a vast array of Ninty references thrown throughout his moveset, so the only thing missing is the fact the Badge Arcade is dead.

 

[Deleted member]

Is anyone going to talk about a new Subspace? As I said In my earlier post, I liked Brawl's a lot. The Subspace even in Intense mode is easy. I just wish it was a long adventure, but I understand that would he hard to develop. Tabuu was also kind of disappointing as a boss and atagonist. They do not have to talk at all, but Tabuu could have been a much harder boss ( and I tired Intense mode ), and Tabuu could have done a much better with character. When I see a subspace, I think I should see a villain with great character development. I hope they pull it off well in the Switch subspace, especially with all the new potential characters that would be added. It would be really enjoyable to watch their reactions to each other the other places and funny moments, even know Brawl kind of did that. I think the new Smash brothers game has a lot more potential than Brawl. I just hope that the Subspace has a lot more depth and it feels like more of a movie and game mixed together.

I only played it once and only once several years ago, and it was on the lowest possible difficulty.

Sate...your idea is good but I don't know about a new story mode being possible. If I remember correctly, Sakurai planned on a story mode for Smash 4 but rescinded the idea possibly because folks may upload cutscenes to the Internet, which is not what he wants.

Sayonara

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Leave my girl Issy alone.
In all seriousness though, Isabelle has the popularity, potential, and the relevancy to get into Smash easily, and with Sakurai straying further from the "fighters must be a fighter" rule from Brawl I'd honestly be surprised if she doesn't show up as playable.
Onto Badge Bunny, while I feel Nikki would be more suited to being a 3DS console rep with Bunny being in her moveset, he's pretty suited to being the console rep too, and he's pretty recognisable. Like SmashStephen said he's also got the badges for a vast array of Ninty references thrown throughout his moveset, so the only thing missing is the fact the Badge Arcade is dead.

As sad as that fact is, The Bunny did tell us in the final update not to miss him, and that he’d be back in the future. From what I understand, the Badge Arcade was a fairly popular app. I don’t know why it ended, but maybe we’ll see an application come out for the Switch along the lines of the Badge Arcade. Who knows.

He is an unlikely choice. I’ll say that. There’s just something about him that I could see working so well. Every iteration of Smash has had that “WTF” inspiring character. Melee had Game&Watch. Brawl had R.O.B. Lastly, WiiU&3DS had Wii Fit Trainer. I guess you could say Duck Hunt was a “WTF” character too. No one saw coming. (Well, expect for the leaks.)

So, Luminario. What do you think of my predictions?

 

[IronTed]

What if they do it sorta like Splatoon 2? Like a half port half new game or a super enhanced port that they decided to call it a sequel basically but with that's stupid "for switch" name. I know Splatoon 2 is completely new but they could make a new game with reusing the engine and models etc....while bringing back most content. If that makes sense.

In this scenario we could see like 10 newcomers and lots of new stages along with remastered versions of smash run and 3ds stages etc and potentially DLC free or not later on...

A better term is iterative sequel. Basically it will be Smash 5, but don't expect a large graphical jump or anything "big". There will be new stuff, but not as expansive as Smash 4 was to Brawl, but still enough to be more than an enhanced port. Basically along the lines of your suggestion. I think this is the most likely scenario as it stands, I doubt Nintendo wants Smash 5 to come out post 2020 or something.

The main issue with a hypothetical Smash 4 Deluxe is that the rational does not perfectly hold. Both Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Pokken Tournament were Wii U exclusives (well, the latter was a console exclusive) who were obviously constrained by their platform. Smash 4 was effectively multiplatform, so the installbase was quite large. Indeed Smash 4 outsold Brawl on an overall smaller installbase (obviously the same cannot be said for MK8). It was not constrained in that regard, or at least not substantially.

Now one would bring up Bayonetta 1 and 2 as an exception, as 1 was multiplatform. But the fact they are releasing them together (opposed to standalone) is a bit different (there is no way we would get 2 versions of Smash at $59.99, or one version priced below $59.99).

It still is possible, but the longer the announcement takes, the less likely a port becomes, and the more likely a sequel becomes.

 

[Deleted member]

Leave my girl Issy alone.
In all seriousness though, Isabelle has the popularity, potential, and the relevancy to get into Smash easily, and with Sakurai straying further from the "fighters must be a fighter" rule from Brawl I'd honestly be surprised if she doesn't show up as playable.
Onto Badge Bunny, while I feel Nikki would be more suited to being a 3DS console rep with Bunny being in her moveset, he's pretty suited to being the console rep too, and he's pretty recognisable. Like SmashStephen said he's also got the badges for a vast array of Ninty references thrown throughout his moveset, so the only thing missing is the fact the Badge Arcade is dead.

I like how you defend your opinion thoroughly. So I will say my own opinion. Isabelle is an assist trophy already. I get your opinion, but I think Isabelle is fine as an assist trophy. I would like to see a move set of her, because is she going to be a Villager clone or something? If she does make it into Smash brothers, I will not complain and actually be pretty impressed they gave Isabelle a move set. And Badge Arcade is dead and nobody really cared for it, that is why Badge Bunny should not make it into smash. That is why Taklamakan did not make it into Smash, not enough fan support and detail. I highly doubt Badge Bunny will make it into Smash because I do not see him recognized at all. One thing is Isabelle does have a lot of fan support unlike Badge Bunny.

 

[Opossum]

I like how you defend your opinion thoroughly. So I will say my own opinion. Isabelle is an assist trophy already. I get your opinion, but I think Isabelle is fine as an assist trophy. I would like to see a move set of her, because is she going to be a Villager clone or something? If she does make it into Smash brothers, I will not complain and actually be pretty impressed they gave Isabelle a move set.

I mean, Little Mac and Charizard used to be an Assist and a Poké Ball Pokémon, respectively.

Isabelle can have a moveset based around terraforming. She'd build Public Works Projects and enact ordinances to change the stage itself. Think like Pac-Man's hydrant but to a greater, more focused extent. Her normals can focus around more "cutesy" and accidental fighting. Her forward smash, for example, could involve her accidentally knocking over a giant stack of papers to hit the opponent. Other moves could use things like the Party Popper and other unrepresented aspects of Animal Crossing to fill out the rest of the set.

It's hard to give an exact reference example, but I could kind of see her as UMvC3's Rocket Raccoon and Phoenix Wright combined, in a sense. I definitely think she's likely to be added in Smash 5. Nintendo pushes her hard, and she's the face of Animal Crossing, more than Nook ever was.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, Little Mac and Charizard used to be an Assist and a Poké Ball Pokémon, respectively.

Isabelle can have a moveset based around terraforming. She'd build Public Works Projects and enact ordinances to change the stage itself. Think like Pac-Man's hydrant but to a greater, more focused extent. Her normals can focus around more "cutesy" and accidental fighting. Her forward smash, for example, could involve her accidentally knocking over a giant stack of papers to hit the opponent. Other moves could use things like the Party Popper and other unrepresented aspects of Animal Crossing to fill out the rest of the set.

It's hard to give an exact reference example, but I could kind of see her as UMvC3's Rocket Raccoon and Phoenix Wright combined, in a sense. I definitely think she's likely to be added in Smash 5. Nintendo pushes her hard, and she's the face of Animal Crossing, more than Nook ever was.

That is actually not bad move set for Isabelle. Creative logic and it might actually work out! I personally think Isabelle might stay as an assist trophy unless tons of fans beg Sakurai or the over developer to add her into the game, but we will see. Thank you for answering my question.

 

[Caryslan]

Everyone has their own issues regarding potential characters and then, suddenly, they are fine with it or even excited after they are revealed. Well, most characters that is. Are people still angry over Dark Pit?

Prior Greninja being revealed, he was too recent and not iconic enough. Prior to Little Mac and Ryu, they had little Moveset potential. Rosalina was too minor of a character. Robin was a player avatar. Duck Hunt walked on too feet. Sonic was apart of Sega, ROB was a video game accessory. Etc etc. now they are Smash canon.

Changing the subject, Injustice 2 totally sold me on the concept that you can have two characters sharing he same model. The Flash and Reverse-Flash, Cheetah and Vixen, Supergirl and Powergirl, Captain Cold and Mister Freeze. Raiden and Black Thunder. Of course, the characters need to be alike in body size and abilities to make sense during game play but I think that’s a Smash 5 could do the same thing. Smash 4 did do it with Alpha and Olimar but I remember hearing that Sakurai was thinking of having Alpha as a seperate character. Here’s some ideas:

Mario and Doctor Mario
Peach and Daisy
Luigi and Mr L
Captain Toad and Toadette
Link and Dark Link
Shiek and Impa
Pit and Dark Pit
Palutena and Medusa
Ness and Lucas
Marth and Lucina
Marth and Chrom
Donkey Kong and Funky Kong
Samus and Dark Samus
Meta Knight and Galacta Knight

Just to name a few

While this sounds like a good idea on paper, I play Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Lucas for the percise reason that they play differently from their counterparts. If I wanted to play as Mario or Marth, I would pick those two.

Dr. Mario pretty much plays nothing like Mario, so there is no valid reason to reduce him to nothing more then an alt costume that has Mario's gameplay properties.

Lucas is even less of a clone when compared to Ness. Many of their moves are different, and the ones that are the same like PK Thunder, PK Fire, PK Magnet, his F-Smash are nothing like Ness' version. Plus, even if you could argue that simply giving Ness Lucas' specials as custom moves would solve the problem, that's also ignoring the fact that Lucas has a tether with the Rope Snake, has an U-Smash that Ness does not have, has a D-Smash that Ness does not have, and several other moves Ness does not have.

Plus, the idea of Lucas is somewhat different from Ness. Lucas tends to rely on PK power alot more then Ness does.
Simply making him an alt costume kinda loses that.

Now, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of alt costumes like they did with Bowser Jr and the Koopalings or Olimar and Alph.

Taking Marth as an example, you could cut down on the number of alt colors and make his alt costumes Alm, Sigrud, Seliph, and Chrom. Or make them DLC or something.

I like the idea, I'm just opposed to reducing already playable characters like Dr. Mario and Lucas to being alt costumes.

 

[Opossum]

While this sounds like a good idea on paper, I play Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Lucas for the percise reason that they play differently from their counterparts. If I wanted to play as Mario or Marth, I would pick those two.

Dr. Mario pretty much plays nothing like Mario, so there is no valid reason to reduce him to nothing more then an alt costume that has Mario's gameplay properties.

Lucas is even less of a clone when compared to Ness. Many of their moves are different, and the ones that are the same like PK Thunder, PK Fire, PK Magnet, his F-Smash are nothing like Ness' version. Plus, even if you could argue that simply giving Ness Lucas' specials as custom moves would solve the problem, that's also ignoring the fact that Lucas has a tether with the Rope Snake, has an U-Smash that Ness does not have, has a D-Smash that Ness does not have, and several other moves Ness does not have.

Plus, the idea of Lucas is somewhat different from Ness. Lucas tends to rely on PK power alot more then Ness does.
Simply making him an alt costume kinda loses that.

Now, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of alt costumes like they did with Bowser Jr and the Koopalings or Olimar and Alph.

Taking Marth as an example, you could cut down on the number of alt colors and make his alt costumes Alm, Sigrud, Seliph, and Chrom. Or make them DLC or something.

I like the idea, I'm just opposed to reducing already playable characters like Dr. Mario and Lucas to being alt costumes.

Seliph is the only one out of those that could even work as a potential Marth alt. Chrom and Alm's swordplay styles are completely different from Marth's, so they wouldn't work. Sigurd, though he can dismount, is known for fighting on horseback, and as such it wouldn't be an accurate representation.

Seliph works though.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I like how you defend your opinion thoroughly. So I will say my own opinion. Isabelle is an assist trophy already. I get your opinion, but I think Isabelle is fine as an assist trophy. I would like to see a move set of her, because is she going to be a Villager clone or something? If she does make it into Smash brothers, I will not complain and actually be pretty impressed they gave Isabelle a move set. And Badge Arcade is dead and nobody really cared for it, that is why Badge Bunny should not make it into smash. That is why Taklamakan did not make it into Smash, not enough fan support and detail. I highly doubt Badge Bunny will make it into Smash because I do not see him recognized at all. One thing is Isabelle does have a lot of fan support unlike Badge Bunny.

Did Mr. Game&Watch, R.O.B, or Wii Fit Trainer have a large amount of fan support? No. Sakurai choose them, and made them into something because he saw potential. I think that can be said for a lot of single franchise representatives. The Arcade Bunny may not be recognizable to the level of Mario or Link, but enough people know who he is, and the potential for a moveset is definitely there. I’m not saying he’ll make it in. I agree, his chances are unlikely. I just think he’d make the perfect “WTF” addition for the next Smash Bros.