Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Crap-Zapper]

You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain.

Suddenly Ganondorf as an Echo of Captain Falcon makes sense.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Seems like can't do jokes easily here, a lot peeps will take 'em seriously.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Yeah, you're right. That's such an original and unique concept. Wowee, I've never seen a cool badass anime chick with a giant mech before...

Oh, wait... It's like that's been a thing for years or something...

(Not even the best character from Gunbuster, but I'm sure you get my point)

Good thing I never said most original or unique, I said cooler

 

[DLEAF]

Seems like can't do jokes easily here, a lot peeps will take 'em seriously.

That's not true, no one takes me seriously.

Spoiler: Honest Question

Who's the girl after a lot of your posts and in your signature?

 

[BlueMagician]

"Xenoblade characters" probably just means everyone who shows up in Shulk's final smash.

 

[Wambo]

Good thing I never said most original or unique, I said cooler

It's pretty easy to look cool in a game full of **** characters.

EDIT: Why the hell do my images keep breaking

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That's not true, no one takes me seriously.

Spoiler: Honest Question

Who's the girl after a lot of your posts and in your signature?

That's Valkyrie from the Namco title Valkyrie no Densetsu.

 

[Noipoi]

It's pretty easy to look cool in a game full of **** characters.

Dude, calm down. You're being overly hostile for no reason.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

That's not true, no one takes me seriously.

Spoiler: Honest Question

Who's the girl after a lot of your posts and in your signature?

Spoiler

Valkyrie from Namco's titular franchise. Pics are cropped shots from her Japanese manga.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 are popular and have a cult following not because of sexy female characters, but the fact it turns said sexy female character trope on it's head in a clever way, oh, and the gameplay is top notch. The combos, the action, it's some of the best in that genre.

Even Sakurai himself has praised how polished Bayonetta is. Soooooo....I guess he has **** taste as well?

 

[P.Kat]

Fellas, who's a character that if they were announced as a newcomer, you would absolutely lose your mind over while everyone else would be more neutral and calm about? For me it'd definitely be Toad/Captain Toad. I've been waiting 10 years for this to happen pls Sakurai

Amaterasu would be mine, I've been waiting for chance to get in Smash since her game appeared on the Gamecube.

An honorary character that would also fall under this list is Blaze the Cat, I know its a stretch (possibly), but I feel like she can rival Shadow in popularity even, and she has a lot of unique abilities that'd make her a great newcomer for Smash. There's also the fact that Laura Bailey, who voices Lucina, also voices Blaze the Cat, although that doesn't mean her entrance as a newcomer is set in stone, it does mean her getting into Smash isn't too unlikely.

 

[KMDP]

Falcon, why do you hate people like yourself? You're anime too.

View attachment 153713

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
Sun Tzu's The Art of War: Chapter III Strategic Attack.

In order to truly defeat Anime, Captain Falcon must know anime. He must become Anime.

 

[Zerp]

A Smash Ultimate interview with Bill Trinen came up on a IGN live-stream apparently, and there are some bits of new info:

https://twitter.com/TannerLPer/status/1020122919916015617

- Sakurai paying attention to Invitational footage for balancing
- Still wants entry point for newcomers, but won't forget competitive crowd at all
- Sakurai taking "every last minute" for development, balancing - "60+ characters" in the game
- Kirby has "60+ variants" for copy forms, doubling down on the 60+ comment
- sly answer to "demo?" question, sounds like it will certainly happen
- Biggest E3 reaction was to Ridley, who is biggest in North America. Says that Japan calls him "Captain America"
- North America has way more Melee fans who want those characters balanced.
- He said "Xenoblade Characters"
-Confirms David Hayter's return. David's response was "being excited to be back"
- Treehouse play every day at lunch, after work for hours. Aww.
- DLC later? "Big part of the Wii U game but let's focus on the game being done. Decisions later." Ultimate edition may not have anything else Sakurai wants in.

The XC part is interesting to say the least, but there is no context about it.

>North America has way more Melee fans who want those characters balanced.
I hope he doesn't think the only people who want the game to be balanced only play Melee, some of us play Smash 4 too, I hope he doesn't only look at Melee for the competitive community's opinions and disregard everyone else. Especially if he ends up only seeing how people think Melee Jigglypuff is cancer and decides to keep her in Bottom Tier forever, if that happens I'm not going to be happy about it at all.

"He was talking about what characters newcomers to the franchise will gravitate towards for Smash Bros Ultimate and he said "Characters like Cloud, like Bayonetta, like uh, uh, the Xenoblade characters"

HOLY- I really hope this isn't a translation **** up or something

>Xenoblade characters
>characterS
...did he accidentally just leak his own game?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And drop the whole "attacking the anime artstyle". It's clear this is just pointless fighting.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This seems more a skin on Link though, so IDK if to expect much because of how relatively low-effort this thing must had been to do:

I wouldn't call a new character model, bike, and parasail low effort. Call me crazy but there's almost certainly gonna be more. I think this makes the 22nd Direct more likely than anything. It's still MK8 DLC whether we want to admit it or not...

 

[Roberk]

I've been skimming a lot to catch up, but if all that **** about more anime characters is true, that's a real shame. People really have **** taste these days...

Seriously, a gold-bellied krocodile king and a puppet wizard with a gun for an arm aren't cool?!

EDIT: I can understand/am a fan of Cloud (as FF7 is a masterpiece), but games like Bayonetta and Xenoblade are nowhere near FF7's quality if a game like that was released today.

Whoops, cut everything because of recent modpost. Ignore this

 

[papagenos]

Apparently this is the full context of the XC character matter, this is the transcript of the interview apparently:

"With the Wii U game you start to see more players who have come into Smash Bros. more recently, and they tend to have a real big affinity for some of the newer characters like Bayonetta, like Cloud, and even the Xenoblade characters and things like that."

This interview was conducted by Bill Trinen, not Sakurai. Just found this out. So I guess this relates more to Smash 4 competitive play. But still, the plural with XC characters is suspicious.

Gonna have to make this the subject of my next video, the character"S" thing is too big of a slip up to ignore.

Not sure if that means Elma or Rex and Pyra (or mythra) as the context is literally about which characters new players will be excited about soooo xenoblade chronicles 2 seems more like that fits the bill there. also bayonetta is pretty current with bayonetta 3 coming soon same with cloud as the final fantasy 7 remake is coming.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I have nothing against any Xenoblade newcomers but this so obviously means nothing.

First of all he was talking about Smash Wii U, not Ultimate. Secondly, the name he was looking for was Shulk but he couldn't think of the name and so he said "The Xenoblade Characters" because saying "The Xenoblade Character" would have made him just look really dumb.

 

[RandomAce]

A Smash Ultimate interview with Bill Trinen came up on a IGN live-stream apparently, and there are some bits of new info:

https://twitter.com/TannerLPer/status/1020122919916015617

- Sakurai paying attention to Invitational footage for balancing
- Still wants entry point for newcomers, but won't forget competitive crowd at all
- Sakurai taking "every last minute" for development, balancing - "60+ characters" in the game
- Kirby has "60+ variants" for copy forms, doubling down on the 60+ comment
- sly answer to "demo?" question, sounds like it will certainly happen
- Biggest E3 reaction was to Ridley, who is biggest in North America. Says that Japan calls him "Captain America"
- North America has way more Melee fans who want those characters balanced.
- He said "Xenoblade Characters"
-Confirms David Hayter's return. David's response was "being excited to be back"
- Treehouse play every day at lunch, after work for hours. Aww.
- DLC later? "Big part of the Wii U game but let's focus on the game being done. Decisions later." Ultimate edition may not have anything else Sakurai wants in.

The XC part is interesting to say the least, but there is no context about it.

Reading the tweet.

“uh, the Xenoblade characters...”

NO!
Stop this! No way they accidentally confirmed another Xenoblade Character! PLEASE! Elma! PLEASE SHE HAS TO BE CONFIRMED!

Murlough , see we did get a reveal after all.

 

[N3ON]

"So Bill, what do you think of the main character of Xenoblade?"
"I didn't know Shrek was british..."

*She-Hulk

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Bayonetta and Bayonetta 2 are popular and have a cult following not because of sexy female characters, but the fact it turns said sexy female character trope on it's head in a clever way, oh, and the gameplay is top notch. The combos, the action, it's some of the best in that genre.

Even Sakurai himself has praised how polished Bayonetta is. Soooooo....I guess he has **** taste as well?

Can confirm; Bayonetta is a blast and an absolute joy to play.

 

[Zinith]

So the moral of the story is: if you're involved with a project that cultivates rabid fans, discretion with your words is advisable...

 

[vaanrose]

If he had just said "the Xenoblade characters" instead of "uh, uh, the Xenoblade characters," I'd be incline to believe it was a slip up. But it's obvious he just couldn't remember Shulk's name and was on the spot because he was in the middle of an interview.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't even understand the point.

It's not as if anime and realistic characters have replaced other designs in gaming.

Crash and Spyro have returned/are returning to critical claim and hype. Overwatch mixes both concepts and just had a Hamster hero introduced.

Mario still routinely introduces a character who is non human that sticks around to some degree.

Shovel Knight, Shantae, Hollow Knight, etc are popular indie games right now.

I could go on.

The point?

 

[Deleted member]

If he had just said "the Xenoblade characters" instead of "uh, uh, the Xenoblade characters," I'd be incline to believe it was a slip up. But it's obvious he just couldn't remember Shulk's name and was on the spot because he was in the middle of an interview.

He said "uh." Jeff Goldblum confirmed for Ultimate.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The moment Jeff Goldblum and She Hulk become fighters in Smash Bros is the moment I buy 97 copies of the game at my local Wal Mart and take to the streets passing them out like bibles.

''Would you like to talk about lord and savior Masahiro Sakurai?"

 

[RandomAce]

I’m looking at the posts that I haven’t read yet but isn’t Bill Trinen the dude closest to the development of Ultimate.

It’s clear that Bill Trinen knows about the game. Although it is a slip up, he did say Xenoblade Characters after he said Bayonetta and Cloud singularly, since Xenoblade went to be a bigger more respectable franchise since it’s inception in Smash Wii U that newer players are familiar with.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think the Free Update thing makes it more likely there's more to come in MK8 . Like obviously they're not going to release that as DLC but why would you stop with just that little bit of content? There's definitely more coming.

I feel that any new content for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will just be aesthetic. You don't want to start making the original Mario Kart 8 feel worse.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel that any new content for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will just be aesthetic. You don't want to start making the original Mario Kart 8 feel worse.

Isn't it already worse sense Deluxe has an actual battle mode, more kart options, more characters, and more items?

 

[vaanrose]

I don't even understand the point.

It's not as if anime and realistic characters have replaced other designs in gaming.

Crash and Spyro have returned/are returning to critical claim and hype. Overwatch mixes both concepts and just had a Hamster hero introduced.

Mario still routinely introduces a character who is non human that sticks around to some degree.

Shovel Knight, Shantae, Hollow Knight, etc are popular indie games right now.

I could go on.

The point?

Eh, I think "anime" characters are still probably more popular in general among the chief target demographic just because they're less "for kids" than the cartoony characters.

You know how it goes. When you're a kid you love Pokemon, when you're a teen you think you're better than Pokemon, then when you're an adult you realize you're an idiot and that Pokemon is still just as great as it always was.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel that any new content for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will just be aesthetic. You don't want to start making the original Mario Kart 8 feel worse.

Uh, why not? They're not trying to sell that game anymore.

Even still, this is an MK8 update. What else did that leak say?

 

[Wambo]

Shulk wielding a lightsaber that lets him see into the future, a witch that has guns on her heels, Corrin is part dragon, etc.

I'll admit that the first Xenoblade was really good, but X and 2 are nowhere near as good as people claim they are. Everyone keeps ignoring how godawful the characters, voice acting, and most of the music was in those games.

Seriously, gather around and listen to this garbage from X. This is the night theme of a futuristic city called New Los Angeles. Imagine what you think something like that would sound like, then give this a listen:

Crash and Spyro have returned/are returning to critical claim and hype. Overwatch mixes both concepts and just had a Hamster hero introduced.

Everyone already liked Crash and Spyro, and their most recent games are remakes of what made them both popular in the first place. They're good characters, but apparently everyone aside from the original team is too incompetent to make another successful game with them. Of course if you rerelease successful games that haven't evolved for years, slap some shiny new graphics on them, and stick them on store shelves, people will buy it.

I'm not even gonna touch Overwatch with a ten-foot pole, especially since a lot of people here will probably defend it to the death. Nobody wants to accept the fact that Blizzard made a flawed game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I wouldn't call a new character model, bike, and parasail low effort. Call me crazy but there's almost certainly gonna be more. I think this makes the 22nd Direct more likely than anything. It's still MK8 DLC whether we want to admit it or not...

Well, the character model's tad low-effort though, it's clearly SS Link meant to look like BOTW Link essentially.

Bike + Paraglider I can though.

The fella with that Sunday Direct Leak has one more day to prove himself, BTW.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I sorta hope the leak is true, because Doshin the Giant in HD would be epic.
The original game has not aged well unfortunately.

 

[IsmaR]

https://clips.twitch.tv/WanderingThirstyShrimpRedCoat

The "Xenoblade characters" quote itself for those that can't be bothered to watch the whole interview. I'm in the "it means nothing/Bill is in the middle of doing an interview and had a brain fart" boat.

The Captain America thing IS true then...

For the record, it's Bill saying he read online regarding the "reactions"

Which I assume include the same posts that misinterpreted the whole thing (it got popularized from someone discussing it in the Smashboards specific Ridley Discord, which in and of itself was "I heard from another Discord" and then the whole thing wound up blowing up once said someone ended up posting it to social media).

The original statement might be true, it might be fake. But I doubt Bill of all people would be the one to know for sure.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Eh, I think "anime" characters are still probably more popular in general among the chief target demographic just because they're less "for kids" than the cartoony characters.

You know how it goes. When you're a kid you love Pokemon, when you're a teen you think you're better than Pokemon, then when you're an adult you realize you're an idiot and that Pokemon is still just as great as it always was.

My question is. Why is it impossible for some to like both though?

There's merit to BOTH, when it comes to design, gameplay, story telling, etc.

And then there's merit in the extremes of both. Sometimes both types of character designs get out of hand.

It's all just opinion based basically, but I don't know it just seems like in the world of Nintendo where we have characters that are designed and ranged from Mario to Isabelle to Samus to Link to Inklings to Dillon to Marth, etc, someone would be more understanding of the merits of both types of character design.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'll admit that the first Xenoblade was really good, but X and 2 are nowhere near as good as people claim they are. Everyone keeps ignoring how godawful the characters, voice acting, and most of the music was in those games.

Seriously, gather around and listen to this garbage from X. This is the night theme of a futuristic city called New Los Angeles. Imagine what you think something like that would sound like, then give this a listen:

Everyone already liked Crash and Spyro, and their most recent games are remakes of what made them both popular in the first place. They're good characters, but apparently everyone aside from the original team is too incompetent to make another successful game with them.

I'm not even gonna touch Overwatch with a ten-foot pole, especially since a lot of people here will defend it to the death.

....I actually really love that piece of music so...

 

[vaanrose]

Seriously, gather around and listen to this garbage from X. This is the night theme of a futuristic city called New Los Angeles. Imagine what you think something like that would sound like, then give this a listen:

.

As a resident of Old Los Angeles, this ****'s fire fam

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Isn't it already worse sense Deluxe has an actual battle mode, more kart options, more characters, and more items?

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe only really wins with its better Battle Mode. Other than that, it pretty much copies ALL the tracks that were in Mario Kart 8. As such, those who own the Wii U version might not feel too satisfied with getting the Nintendo Switch version.

Also, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's stat balancing is worse, as a lot of the vehicle parts in that game are useless to even be touching. Compare that to the original Mario Kart 8, where almost every vehicle part was viable to utilize.

 

[RandomAce]

I'll admit that the first Xenoblade was really good, but X and 2 are nowhere near as good as people claim they are. Everyone keeps ignoring how godawful the characters, voice acting, and most of the music was in those games.

Seriously, gather around and listen to this garbage from X. This is the night theme of a futuristic city called New Los Angeles. Imagine what you think something like that would sound like, then give this a listen:

Everyone already liked Crash and Spyro, and their most recent games are remakes of what made them both popular in the first place. They're good characters, but apparently everyone aside from the original team is too incompetent to make another successful game with them.

I'm not even gonna touch Overwatch with a ten-foot pole, especially since a lot of people here will defend it to the death.

I’m going to be honest with you but Xenoblade X and 2 are still pretty good games.

X seems to have a more emphasis on exploring, so the characters and story aren’t the main focus. It’s all about defeating enemies, exploring the world around you, and doing quests which is what makes it enjoyable. It’s also a perfect game to play on the go on the Switch with it’s single player which is why I want a Switch port of it.

2 is fine on it’s own right since it has a pretty good story that gets more interesting as you go on. Although, if you don’t like anime styles (which became apparent, don’t worry I don’t like the art style 2 has that much either) then 2 isn’t right for you since it’s full of it. The characters do begin to pick up around the middle of the game and start to actually be quite memorable.

But don’t diss Xenoblade 1, that game is a god like of a masterpiece. I can’t find a single reason for disliking 1 if you played it, and even though it’s on the Wii, all the characters have realistic emotions and feel like real characters, and the story is one of the best, almost like your playing the perfect video game adaptation of a novel.