Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If people want to talk about UserKev's actual point, please do so. Otherwise, don't reply with spammy replies. In addition, do not flame others. It's unacceptable here or the rest of the site. Thank you for your time.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, really? I warned this other member not to respond to my posts for a reason and yet it still happens. Stupid user. Haha Time to put this feature to work.

I mean, you could've easily just put them on ignore. They have every right to reply to your post.

 

[Chandeelure]

Hmmm... I like Bandana Dee.

Also, I want Bomberman and Ridley.

 

[PeridotGX]

Ridley like I said I have never played metroid I only want him because everyone else who's been in the series since melee has at least 2 characters.

(Captian Falcon and Yoshi cry)

so what about you? 3 characters and if you can think of one a possible moveset.

My top 3 characters aren't really likely, but they're Grovyle, Maxwell (Scribblenauts), and Ninten (Mother 1). I don't have exact movesets for them, but Grovyle is fast and speedy with attacks that draw from spinnoffs like PMD and Pokken, Maxwell creates objects, giving him many tools to play with (Think Villager), and Ninten is a healer that works best in doubles.

Also, what game released this year do you think had the least impact on Smash 5? I'm thinking Mario Party: The Top 100 or 1-2 Switch.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, what game released this year do you think will likely have the least impact on Smash 5? I'm thinking Mario Party: The Top 100 or 1-2 Switch.

ftfy

I'm thinking Snipperclips. I can only see a trophy or two.

Spoiler

inb4 "Snip and Clip cut into the competition!"

 

[Opossum]

Top 3 newcomers for sm4sh switch and possinble moveset anyone?

my top 3 would be in no particular order

Inklings and you could choose boy or girl alts using the system that villy and olimar currently have

one of the final gen 7 starter pokemon's forms I would prefer incineroar because litten was my starter

finally I would choose Ridley and only because IMO metroid doesn't have enough representation in smash, I've never actually gotten to play metroid however I remember ridley in subspace emissary and I felt like it would be so awesome to play as him. and honestly sakurai says he's too big but I've seen modpacks where people just make him a palet swap of charizard. why not make him a charizard clone and altar his moveset to fit ridley's character.

possible movesets

Inklings:

Smashes.
Dowm smash like villy's Downsmash expect with a paint roller instead of a shovel and the paint slows you down for a second because it's obviously not your team color.

F smash idk if they have this in splatoon but something like mega man's f smash but the paint can explod on contact and hit multiple enemies but the splatter wouldn't be as powerful

up smash: Shooting the cherry h-3 nozzlenose into the sky above a few times

specials:
up special: like squirtle's surf in brawl expect they use a trail of paint and turn into a squid and ride it.

side special: like Ike's side b except with the paint roller and it leaves a trail that slows your opponent down again because the paint is not they're color.


down special: paint grenades

Final smash could be calling all of the other inklings for an attack where they splatter the stage with paint and if you touch the paint it slows you down followed by all of the inklings attack you together while you are bogged down
I haven't quite figured out normals except maybe jab ftilt and nair could all just be mega man's but with paint.

I've only played a little splatoon but I fell in love with it instantly I used splatoon wiki for references for moves but that's all I could come up with for now

Incineroar:

jabs: fury swips
up tilt: thrash
forward tilt: throat chop
down tilt: low sweep

nair: Im gonna take some creative liberty and give him something like goku down smash in ssf2 but spinning and on fire.

fair: shadow claw

bair: similar to mario's

dair: A stomp like charizards

Neutral special: fire fang as a command grabz

side Special: brick break and it would work like charizard rock smash his hand would have a hitbox and shards could hit the opponent as well. don't ask where the brick comes from

up special: flame charge( basically the spacies' up b but with a different name)

down special: protect that works like a counter except it stuns your opponent long enough for maybe an uncharged smash but if you don't hit them they will be launched for a potential follow up


forward smash: Fire Punch Like sonic F smash but with more lag because I honestly would quit if two characters could do that

Up smash: cross chop but like sheik or greninja's up smash


Down smash: cross chop but lengthened to hit the sides of him

his throws could be anything really



Ridley like I said I have never played metroid I only want him because everyone else who's been in the series since melee has at least 2 characters smash 4 only has 2 because of hardware limitations not beecause zss and samus were supposed to be seperate from the start so I just want a real second metroid character not connected to another character in the same franchise. so I said all that to say I don't really have a viable moveset for him but it would be nice to see him in the game

so what about you? 3 characters and if you can think of one a possible moveset

Not gonna go for likelihood (far from it), but just the top three I'd like to see.

Spoiler: Celica moveset

Normal Attacks

Jab: Using the Beloved Zofia, Celica performs a three hit combo attack. The first strike comes downward from overhead, the second comes from the side in a sweeping motion, and the third has Celica twirling a bit, swinging the blade from behind in an upward motion. This is based on her in-dungeon combo from Shadows of Valentia. Specifically, it comes directly from her second, third, and fourth strike.

Dash Attack: The small wisp of fire following Celica creates a wall of flames in front of her as she charges forward. Unlike her other magical attacks, no recoil is done here. This is taken directly from her dash attack in Shadows of Valentia.

Up Tilt: Celica points the Beloved Zofia skyward as the glowing flame beside her becomes three fire balls, which twirl around the tip of her sword. A multi hit move.

Side Tilt: Celica thrusts the Beloved Zofia forward, moving slightly in the direction she's facing while doing so. This move comes from the first and fifth strike of her in-dungeon combo in Shadows of Valentia.

Down Tilt: Celica, while crouched, moves her hand outward, launching a small, thunderous spark toward the ground. Due to the stun effect, this move can combo into itself twice before knockback forces foes away.


Smash Attacks:

Up Smash: Celica, using the Beloved Zofia like a sort of baton, casts Excalibur above her, creating a slow-rising razor wind. It travels higher up and does more damage the longer it is charged. The move has a trapping effect due to it being a rapid multi-hit move.

Side Smash: Celica leaps up and smashes the Beloved Zofia downward onto opponents. This is based on her critical hit animation in both Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia. However, this move does far less knockback than the rest of her smash attacks, due to not being magically backed.

Down Smash: Celica performs her casting animation and casts Thunder, hitting both sides of the ground beside her with bolts of lightning.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Celica's fire ball splits into a small stream of fire. Celica moves the Beloved Zofia in a circular motion and the stream of flames circles around her twice, clockwise.

Forward Air: Celica, using a variation of Seraphim, quickly grows angelic wings and uses them to slam foes both forward and downward. This move is based on one of Celica's attacks in Fire Emblem Warriors.

Back Air: Celica quickly makes a backhanded strike with the Beloved Zofia. Here, the tip of the blade is blessed with the Thunder spell, creating a small orb of electricity at the end. Hitting with the spark does much more damage.

Up Air: Celica uses another variant of Excalibur and sending a small gust of wind upward. Knockback-wise and potency-wise, it is somewhere between Mega Man's and Mr. Game and Watch's wind-based up airs.

Down Air: Celica slices beneath her in a back and forth motion with the Beloved Zofia. A two-hit attack.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Celica has a fairly standard grab, and pummels by imbuing her hands with fire to burn the opponent. The pummel does not, however, cause recoil damage, despite being magic based. This holds true for Celica's throws as well.

Forward Throw: Celica releases the foe as three columns of fire erupt in front of her, beneath the foe, carrying them away before causing severe knockback.

Back Throw: Celica tosses the foe back and releases a blast of light magic from her hands, sending them flying.

Up Throw: Celica waves her arms over her after bringing her foe upward, shocking them with electricity before launching them.

Down Throw: Pointing her Beloved Zofia to the ground, three strikes of compressed wind energy pummel the foe before bouncing them off the ground of the stage.


Specials:

Neutral: Fire (Ragnarok) - Celica charges up her fire ball that shoots forward before exploding. At full charge, this becomes Ragnarok, which is incredibly powerful, doing roughly 35% damage and quite a bit of knock back, but at the expense of Celica taking hefty recoil damage. Chargeable and storable. While it is stored, however, any attack using Celica's fire ball will grow in power, but the recoil damage of the move will be more severe. This does not effect her dash attack or forward throw, however.

Side: Seraphim - Celica clasps her hands together as she is bathed in a flash white light. A giant ball of white light surrounds Celica when the button is released, and slowly it moves forward. If the opponent is overlapping Celica's light, they will be trapped similarly to Mewtwo's neutral air, before being carried forward with the ball of light and being erupted from it when it reaches its full distance. A "get off me" move' befitting Celica's connection to Mila and having one of her weaknesses protected.

Up: Excalibur - Celica summons a gust of razor wind around her as she ascends. Nearby foes get cut by the wind, though Celica also takes minor damage from this move (less than five percent).

Down: Mila's Turnwheel - Celica kneels and enters a praying stance. A counter-styled move, if Celica activates this move at the right moment of impact with the foe, the foe is pushed away, doing no damage. However, Celica is healed by ten percent, making it a very risky way of restoring health. Note, though, that the move has far stricter timing than other Counter-like moves. Celica must be on the ground in order to use it, and it may only be successfully used twice per stock.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω - If foes are in range of the attack's start up, a cutscene plays, based on Celica's in-game cutscene when activating this move. Visually, they're essentially the same. The move then ends. Unlike in Shadows of Valentia, this move does not cause recoil damage to Celica, due to being her Final Smash.


Overview:

Celica mainly relies on her spells, with a few moves utilizing the Beloved Zofia, like her jab. The Beloved Zofia acts more like a conduit for her spells here than an actual weapon for most of her moveset, where she makes graceful guiding motions with it to focus her spells, not unlike a baton, or how Toon Link uses the Wind Waker. For the few attacks where she uses the Beloved Zofia for offense, she takes a more rapier-like style.

Like in Shadows of Valentia's dungeon segments, Celica is followed by a small wisp of fire. This is mostly cosmetic and serves as a neat way for her to animate some of her attacks, but also benefits from her neutral special, wherein she can increase its size the more she charges her Fire spell special. This increases the size of some of her attacks' hit boxes at the expense of more recoil damage, and after firing off her charged Fire or Ragnarok, the wisp fizzles back to its original size.

In reference to Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia's unique magic system, Celica takes a variant of Pichu's self damage gimmick, but better executed. Celica does more self damage the more potent her spells are, but can reliably kill using them. Her issue stems from her being the epitome of a glass cannon, as she can't take hits well at all, especially when using her higher recoil spells. In addition to reflecting her game of origin's mechanics, her moveset also reflects her personality and character, with her gracefulness coming through in her use of the Beloved Zofia and her penchant for self-sacrifice for the greater good coming through in her powerful spells' recoil.

Spoiler: Chrom moveset

Introduction: Setting the Exalt Apart

It's no secret at this point that Sakurai reached a bit of a snag when it came to adding Chrom to the roster. Sakurai had, indeed, initially planned on adding him into the game, and even devised a moveset for him. However, at the end of the day he wasn't satisfied. Nothing made Chrom stand out. In Sakurai's own words, he didn't "dance" the way Robin did. But...what if it didn't need to be that way? What if Chrom could be made to be unique, without forcing him into a role that doesn't canonically suit him? What if he actually could dance? If I could design him for Smash, Chrom would fill the niche of a weapon-switching rush down character.

Playstyle Description: Promoting from Great Lord to Smash Lord

In Fire Emblem Awakening, Chrom is of the Lord class. However, if he is at least level ten and has a Master Seal, he can promote to the Great Lord class, which over all has much higher stats. While the standard Lord class can only wield swords, a Great Lord can utilize both swords and lances. Chrom would follow suit in Smash, using both his Exalted Falchion and a Blessed Lance. Each weapon would have different uses in combat.

Smash Feasibility: Technically Possible?

Some may question whether or not this approach would constitute Chrom being technically feasible, and often times point to Zelda/Sheik's and Samus/Zero Suit Samus's separation, as well as Pokémon Trainer's removal. Simply put, this wouldn't apply to Chrom.

Yes, Chrom would have access to different moves when using the Exalted Falchion or Blessed Lance, but his model, voice clips, certain animations, and personal stats like weight and jump height would remain the same. A few altered damage outputs, hit box sizes, and attack animations changing isn't comparable to swapping out entire characters like Pokémon Trainer.

The only model switching out would be his weapon, and similar things already happen with the likes of Robin, Bowser Jr., and Pac-Man without any issues at all, while Ryu also has many additional attacks in his moveset without causing problems. From this, I think it's entirely possible that this playstyle idea is feasible from a technical standpoint.

Moveset Canonicity: Is It a Stretch?

Some may understandably question whether or not this type of moveset is representative of Chrom as a character, instead of unique for the sake of being unique. Some may wonder whether or not it is forced onto him. I believe this type of moveset is not at all forced, and instead completely within the scope of his canonical character.

First, let's go over the usage of lances in his moveset. Some may feel that using weapons that aren't usable in Chrom's default Lord class would lose his moveset authenticity. In a way, I understand this claim. It's for this reason that this moveset doesn't utilize Bow or Axe or Tome attacks, despite Chrom having access to the Archer, Cavalier, and Dread Fighter class lines.

Chrom using lances from his Great Lord class, though, is a different and much more suitable case, as the Great Lord class is the standard promotion for Lords, as opposed to a reclassing option. Additionally, some may not see Chrom using the Exalted Falchion when all promotional material shows Chrom using the normal Falchion. Sakurai has been on record saying that he likes having the Fire Emblem characters have the ultimate version of their weapons, as noted with Ragnell, the Binding Blade, and Omega Yato. Likewise, then, the Exalted Falchion and lance access wouldn't be a stretch for Chrom to use.

Furthermore, having Chrom have a weapon switching mechanic is also true to Awakening. In the game, Chrom is the only character with full access to the Convoy at all times, allowing him to seamlessly alter his inventory at a moment's notice. As well, different weapon types are a cornerstone of the Fire Emblem series' identity as a strategy and tactics franchise. Showcasing this in Smash Bros. through Chrom's weapon choice dictating his playstyle would be yet another added bonus and make Chrom more than just another ordinary swordsman.

The Moveset: "We're Not Done Yet!"

Specials:


Down Special: With this, Chrom would switch between the Exalted Falchion and the Blessed Lance using his Down Special, Convoy. In general, the Falchion provides more power while the Blessed Lance provides more reach.

Up Special: His Up Special would be Sol. Chrom can't get Sol as a skill in Awakening through normal means, but this was creative license, since Aether is just Sol+Luna and I didn't want more inevitable Ike comparisons. Plus he gets it in Heroes. Here, Chrom would leap up, and at the apex can do one of two things. He can hit left or right, making him do a somersault maneuver (like the Mii Swordfighter's Airborn Assault special) while crash toward the ground, like in the Two Falchions cutscene, or he can plummet straight down by pressing down, sending his sword into the ground (from yet another Awakening cutscene). The former does more damage with the Falchion, while the latter does more damage with the Blessed Lance.

Side Special: Chrom's Side Special would be Luna. Chrom will take out a Spear and aim. Think of the Cracker Launcher in Brawl. You can aim the move and walk at the same time, but releasing the button tosses the spear. This does more damage if the Blessed Lance is equipped beforehand.

Neutral Special: Chrom's Neutral Special is Rightful King. One big part of Awakening's final act is having Chrom be blessed by Naga's flames and having the Falchion exalted. This would be incorporated into Chrom's moveset by him holding his weapon skyward. He is surrounded by white flames from Naga that build as the move is charged. However, the flames don't cause knockback, only damage, so foes can walk right up to Chrom and hit him out of it if he's not careful. That being said, if Chrom completes this move, the area around him gets doused with Naga's holy fire, causing major damage. Additionally, if Chrom is equipped with the Exalted Falchion and hits the opponent with a fully charged move, he gets a bit of health healed. The sweet spot is right above Chrom, where he's holding his blade.

Finally his Final Smash is the Shepherds' Assault. Here, Frederick arrives on the stage and rides a horse around the stage, striking foes with a Silver Axe for heavy damage. All the while, Chrom can still move about and attack with increased defenses, all thanks to a guard boost from Frederick.

Normals:


Jab: (Sword) A three strike move in which Chrom holds the Falchion in two hands. Strike from left, strike from right, overhead strike.
Jab: (Lance) A two strike move involving two pokes and a lunge.

Dash Attack: (Both) Chrom performs a shoulder bash.

Side Tilt: (Sword) Chrom does a wide sideways slash. Similar to and slightly slower than Marth's, but more powerful.
Side Tilt: (Lance) Chrom juts out the Blessed Lance and twirls it for a three hit attack.

Up Tilt: (Sword) Chrom performs an upwards slice in a way similar to Little Mac's upward angled side smash. It has two points of damage, making it a swift, two hit attack. The animation is taken from Awakening.
Up Tilt: (Lance) Chrom twirls the Blessed Lance above him like a helicopter.

Down Tilt: (Sword) Chrom ducks down and does a chopping motion with the Falchion.
Down Tilt: (Lance) Chrom pokes the Blessed Lance forward, almost like a billiard cue.

Aerials:


Neutral Air: (Sword) Chrom takes on the pose of his Awakening box art and lunges his sword forward.
Neutral Air: (Lance) Chrom extends his lance at a downward angle similar to Corrin's Dragon Lunge.

Forward Air: (Sword) Chrom performs a quick midair somersault with his blade extended. May meteor smash if it hits at the beginning.
Forward Air: (Lance) Chrom extends his Blessed Lance forward.

Back Air: (Both) Chrom flips around and swiftly kicks the foes twice.

Up Air: (Sword) Chrom swings his Falchion twice above him in an arc.
Up Air: (Lance) Chrom twirls the lance tall-ways above him.

Down Air: (Sword) Chrom slams the Falchion down beneath him, causing him to fall toward the stage before reaching the point of impact on the ground.
Down Air: (Lance) Chrom holds the lance facing downward as a burst of light emits from the blade.

Smashes:


Up Smash: (Both) Chrom bashes the Fire Emblem skyward as it erupts with heavenly light.

Side Smash: (Sword) Chrom leaps forward and slams his sword from overhead onto the ground. This is Chrom's best kill move and is taken from his critical hit animation.
Side Smash: (Lance) Chrom thrusts the Blessed Lance forward. If it connects, another hit occurs as the blade erupts with Naga's holy light.

Down Smash: (Sword) Chrom slams his sword in front of him while taking a knee, planting it firmly into the ground. Like a few other down smashes, this only hits one side.
Down Smash: (Lance) Chrom ducks down and swings the lance across the floor, hitting both sides in a more traditional down smash.

Grabs:


Pummel: Chrom sheathes his blade and punches the opponent.

Forward Throw: Chrom tosses the foe forward.
Back Throw: Chrom throws the foe over his shoulder in a judo-styled maneuver.
Up Throw: Chrom lobs the opponent skyward.
Down Throw: Chrom slams his enemy downward and impales them with either the Exalted Falchion or the Blessed Lance.

Extras:

Taunts:

Down Taunt: Chrom twirls his Falchion or Lance before planting it into the ground, taken directly from his victory animations in Awakening, all while saying "Well fought."

Up Taunt: Chrom lifts his current weapon skyward while saying "I will not falter."

Side Taunt: Chrom takes his trademark pose from his official art and shouts "Anything can change!"

Entrance Animation: Chrom appears from a Warp spell and draws his weapon.


Victory Poses:

Victory Pose 1: Chrom takes Falchion out of the ground and announces "For the Halidom of Ylisse!"
Victory Pose 2: Frederick rides in on horseback as Chrom's cape billows in the wind. Chrom states "It appears our training has paid off."
Victory Pose 3: Chrom does two wide slashes with the Exalted Falchion before sheathing it. During this, he says "Our bonds are stronger than any destiny."

Special Victory Quotes (Victory Pose 3) :

VS. Lucina: "You're skilled, but there are still a few things I can teach you."
VS. Robin: "You tactics can only get you so far, friend."
VS. Marth: "It's been an honor, great Hero King."

Spoiler: Crash moveset

My biggest wish for a third party character, Crash Bandicoot would have a zany and cartoony aesthetic to his combat. You'd get a sense that he's just as crazy as he looks, as if he walked right out of a Looney Tunes cartoon. Some of his close combat moves would be taken straight from his games, like his belly flop as a down air. Lots of punches, kicks and spins fill out the rest, but what really shines are his Specials. For now I'll detail just these to save time.

Crash's Neutral Special would be his Spin. While this seems pretty basic for a special move, the Spin is quite a utility. For one, the move has little to no starting lag; it's incredibly quick, making it easy to get out of tough spots. It also has a pull effect, making enemies and items move closer to Crash if they're within range. This comes in handy when combined with Crash's Down Special.

Crash's Side Special is the Fruit Bazooka. Crash pulls out the aforementioned firearm and takes aim, but he cannot move when aiming. A reticle appears on the screen when he's in aiming stance, allowing him to more easily connect. If Side B is pressed again, Crash shoots out a fruit that does quite a bit of damage. Pressing anything other than Side B exits the aiming stance.

Crash's Up Special is the Arrow Crate. An Arrow Crate appears below Crash, giving him an additional jump. Simple, right? Kind of boring? What makes this move unique is that it can be used twice in the air as opposed to once, allowing Crash to have what is essentially three midair jumps which he can use at whatever point he wishes. Use this for mix ups and confuse foes about where you'll land.

Crash's Down Special is the Crate Drop. Crash pulls out one of four crates and places it in front of him. The four are normal crates, Metal Crates, TNT Crates, and the incredibly rare Nitro Crates. Metal Crates can't be broken under normal means, while normal crates can. TNT crates explode three seconds after they're touched, and Nitro Crates explode instantly if touched. However, if Crash uses his Neutral Special next to a crate, his spin picks it up and launches it forward. Normal Crates do normal damage, Metal Crates do heavy damage but low knockback, TNT crates do low damage but heavy knockback, and the rare Nitro Crates do high damage and high knockback, and are Crash's best kill move. Only one crate can be in play at a time.

Crash's Final Smash is Aku-Aku. Aku-Aku will appear, go "Hoodaboogah," and Crash dons him as a mask, all while the Aku-Aku theme plays. While like this, Crash is invincible and can't take damage or knockback. However, he doesn't get a power boost in return for not taking damage, to balance it against current transformation Final Smashes. When the music ends, so too does the Final Smash.

Alphabetized for convenience. And all coincidentally start with C.

So yeah, feel free to tell me what you think of these. Though honestly if you do, I'd suggest doing so in their respective character threads since all three could use a bump anyway.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Alphabetized for convenience. And all coincidentally start with C.

C is for Cookie, that's good enough for me

 

[Frostwraith]

Can't believe we're doing this again. I joined these forums 5 years ago for the exact same purpose... Well, time surely does fly, doesn't it? And yes, I'm back to Smashboards after a nearly 9 month hiatus. How are you all doing? I see a lot of familiar faces here... Hope you haven't forgotten about me.

To stay on topic, I kind of wish for Alm and Celica in the next Smash but they're probably not happening. At least, FE Gaiden will get some more recognition by virtue of its remake, FE Echoes, which by the way was a fantastic game, I really enjoyed it. Maybe a stage based on Valentia, or a Alm and Celica Assist Trophy can make it in the game. That would be nice, at least.

Also, I do think playable Rex and Pyra from XC2 have good chances of making it in the next Smash considering Nintendo's been pushing Xenoblade.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

FROSTWRAITH IS ALIVE!!!!!!

Who could've speculated that?

 

[N3ON]

wishing more fe upon us is HEINOUS

BEGONE FROM HERE WITH THAT EVIL




nice to see you back tho frost :D

 

[Frostwraith]

Speaking of FE and its 6 characters in Smash 3DS and Wii U, it's likely that a few of them may be cut in a new Smash game. Roy may get cut again and Lucina could become just a Marth alt if not cut altogether too. It will also depend on the next FE's protagonist and how appealing it maybe to Sakurai considering his stance on Chrom and choosing Robin over him.

And with the Smash roster at 58 characters, it's going to be hard to get much larger than this.

Or Smash Switch may just be a port of Smash Wii U with some extra content on top (including some 3DS version content as well), in that case, there are likely not cuts. Even Splatoon 2 seems to be reusing a lot of assets from the first game, so who knows...

And hi N3ON. Nice to see you again too.

 

[Deleted member]

Lucina could become just a Marth alt

I stopped reading there because I have to comment on this.

Why do people expect the clones to become alternate costumes?

The whole reason Dr. Mario was seperated from Mario at the first place was because he was in a previous Smash game. I don't see Sakurai, or whatever other developer that may work on that game go against that logic.

And personally, I feel that Lucina is much more likely to stay then people think. She's basically a mascot of the series at this point (She appeared in crossovers and IS forced Koei Tecmo to include her in Warriors), and she's the 2nd most popular female character overall. She's also easy to add.

 

[Frostwraith]

I stopped reading there because I have to comment on this.

Why do people expect the clones to become alternate costumes?

The whole reason Dr. Mario was seperated from Mario at the first place was because he was in a previous Smash game. I don't see Sakurai, or whatever other developer that may work on that game go against that logic.

And personally, I feel that Lucina is much more likely to stay then people think. She's basically a mascot of the series at this point (She appeared in crossovers and IS forced Koei Tecmo to include her in Warriors), and she's the 2nd most popular female character overall. She's also easy to add.

So you just ignore the rest of my post and my other points because I pointed a possibility. Right, that surely sounds reasonable...

I don't even expect that to happen since I'm well aware of Lucina's popularity. No need to get so defensive over a character.

Besides, Dr. Mario was considered as a costume in the first place and only then would Sakurai change his mind. With a total of over 60 veteran characters carrying over from the 4 released installments, there may be a necessity to cut corners in order to have as many characters return from previous games.

Sakurai has changed his mind many times regarding the same subject, i.e. Villager and Pac-Man being rejected for Brawl because he didn't feel like those characters would be suitable, yet they made it into Smash 3DS/Wii U.

 

[Deleted member]

Besides, Dr. Mario was considered as a costume in the first place and only then would Sakurai change his mind. With a total of over 60 veteran characters carrying over from the 4 released installments, there may be a necessity to cut corners in order to have as many characters return from previous games.

He considered it, but he decided against it because he was in a previous Smash game. I doubt he's going to go against that logic.

And cutting clones doesn't magically open up slots. They take little to no development time. I'm not expecting everyone to return in the next game, but unique characters are more likely to be removed because they take more development time.

Sakurai has changed his mind many times regarding the same subject, i.e. Villager and Pac-Man being rejected for Brawl because he didn't feel like those characters would be suitable, yet they made it into Smash 3DS/Wii U.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Sakurai usually doesn't change a veteran's moveset too much because he doesn't want people to miss their mains' old moveset, so if he makes existing characters into costumes, said fans won't be able to play as them at all and they won't be able to come back as DLC.

 

[Frostwraith]

He considered it, but he decided against it because he was in a previous Smash game. I doubt he's going to go against that logic.

And cutting clones doesn't magically open up slots. They take little to no development time. I'm not expecting everyone to return in the next game, but unique characters are more likely to be removed because they take more development time.


I don't think that's a fair comparison. Sakurai usually doesn't change a veteran's moveset too much because he doesn't want people to miss their mains' old moveset, so if he makes existing characters into costumes, said fans won't be able to play as them at all and they won't be able to come back as DLC.

I'm aware of all that. I know that clones are much easier to develop than a fully unique character.

Also, I don't think Lucina will be made into a costume, but it's not exactly impossible either. That's my point. I'm not expecting her to be cut. Roy and Corrin are more at risk of being cut, if any FE character is in fact getting cut.

However, having been through speculation for Brawl and for Smash 3DS/Wii U, what can be true for the development of a game may not necessarily apply to another. Just because there's a precedence for something doesn't make it guaranteed to happen next time, just that it's more likely.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm aware of all that. I know that clones are much easier to develop than a fully unique character.

Also, I don't think Lucina will be made into a costume, but it's not exactly impossible either. That's my point. I'm not expecting her to be cut. Roy and Corrin are more at risk of being cut, if any FE character is in fact getting cut.

However, having been through speculation for Brawl and for Smash 3DS/Wii U, what can be true for the development of a game may not necessarily apply to another. Just because there's a precedence for something doesn't make it guaranteed to happen next time, just that it's more likely.

Alright, fair enough.
Considering I haven't been through speculation for either Brawl nor Sm4sh (y'all should be glad I wasn't), you probably know about that kind of stuff way better than I do.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The new forms do nothing for Necrozma considering we're unlikely to get a transforming character after what happened with Zelda, Samus, and Pokémon Trainer, and those forms are too large to work anyway.

This is pretty much why I stated that the Final Smash status is the best bet for Necrozma's alternate forms.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only way I could see the clones becoming a costume again is if they do something like "these costumes have their own unique moveset", like an alternate character tied to one slot, similar to Zelda/Sheik, but without transformations. This could work as an idea to save some roster slot space. Pressing L or R to cycle between the two specific characters. But just being a pure costume without a moveset difference is much less likely, and this idea isn't that likely to begin with. It just has decent merit since fighting games have used this style before for some characters due to large rosters.

 

[N3ON]

Speaking of FE and its 6 characters in Smash 3DS and Wii U, it's likely that a few of them may be cut in a new Smash game. Roy may get cut again and Lucina could become just a Marth alt if not cut altogether too. It will also depend on the next FE's protagonist and how appealing it maybe to Sakurai considering his stance on Chrom and choosing Robin over him.

And with the Smash roster at 58 characters, it's going to be hard to get much larger than this.

Or Smash Switch may just be a port of Smash Wii U with some extra content on top (including some 3DS version content as well), in that case, there are likely not cuts. Even Splatoon 2 seems to be reusing a lot of assets from the first game, so who knows...

And hi N3ON. Nice to see you again too.

If the next Smash is Smash 5 I do expect there to be at least one FE cut and at least one FE newcomer. The newcomer would likely be from a future game, and suggesting who the cut(s) might be is clearly a point of contention around here, lol. But it'd be Roy, Lucina, and/or Corrin if anyone.

If it's a port, I see not having any change to the FE roster. If we didn't already have six FE characters, maybe we'd get someone from the upcoming game, but considering there wouldn't be cuts, and considering the saturated state of the series and Sakurai's own reservations about including a sixth FE character, I can't imagine it continues to grow. And personally I'm completely ok with that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is pretty much why I stated that the Final Smash status is the best bet for Necrozma's alternate forms.

Issue is that he has a total of 4 forms. And Light That Burns The Sky HAS to be his Final Smash should he make it. I DO believe we should get the Ultra theme in Smash, possibly even an exclusive Boss Battle mode in which you fight multiple bosses from Nintendo's franchises

 

[Curious Villager]

The only way I could see the clones becoming a costume again is if they do something like "these costumes have their own unique moveset", like an alternate character tied to one slot, similar to Zelda/Sheik, but without transformations. This could work as an idea to save some roster slot space. Pressing L or R to cycle between the two specific characters. But just being a pure costume without a moveset difference is much less likely, and this idea isn't that likely to begin with. It just has decent merit since fighting games have used this style before for some characters due to large rosters.

I believe Sakurai considered that before, but decided against it due to wanting to maintain every characters battle records. So unless their like Alph and the Koopalings where there are no differences whatsoever, clones will probably get their own slot, no matter how little differences they may have from their parent character.

Assuming Sakurai doesn't change his stance on that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe Sakurai considered that before, but decided against it due to wanting to maintain every characters battle records. So unless their like Alph and the Koopalings where there are no differences whatsoever, clones will probably get their own slot, no matter how little differences they may have from their parent character.

Assuming Sakurai doesn't change his stance on that.

I think that was more because he couldn't separate the battle records either. I could see him doing so if he can find a way to make the battle records based upon the specific costume. To be fair, I'm talking about separate characters who just happen to be in the same slot. All it sounds like is he needs to do more programming, but to also be fair, might be a lot harder than I think.

 

[Mario123311]

Seriously, Every time I think about Namco getting a secondary I get worried.

I've been kind of tired with how much Tales and Tekken have been getting milked in recent years especially. ((They are basically the only two IPs they are making actual games with anymore)) So it's safe to say I have somewhat of a grudge against them.

 

[Champ Gold]

Seriously, Every time I think about Namco getting a secondary I get worried.

I've been kind of tired with how much Tales and Tekken have been getting milked in recent years especially. ((They are basically the only two IPs they are making actual games with anymore)) So it's safe to say I have somewhat of a grudge against them.

There 2 of Bamco's biggest franchises. Them not getting a rep would be more offensive than them being in there.

Its like saying you're tired of Square-Enix pushing Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest

 

[Schnee117]

Tekken and Tales really haven't been milked either. Especially not recently.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tekken and Tales really haven't been milked either. Especially not recently.

Plus, it's just one of many series. Taizo Hori could be unique, there's still various potential Digimon, Soul Calibur options and probably more I can't think of easily. Bamco is hardly in lack of options.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Tekken and Tales really haven't been milked either. Especially not recently.

But they both got a game less than five years ago.

That means they're getting milked.


Honestly, we overuse the term "milked" a lot.

 

[UserKev]

I got 2 warnings now and I really did nothing wrong to earn either of them. But that's ok because sometimes warnings are worth it. Smashboards has a great community and I'm not doing anything to ruin that, but some users really test my patience. It all comes down to self pride. Also, I'm aware of how some users reply to me extremely out the blue after responding to a post I left days ago the moment I get back to them, just to assassinate my character and I don't want to associate with those people. Not at least after some time. I may come off as a jerk but that's just really as far as what I want out of the series. At least I don't sit around waiting for a user to get back at them.

That's all I want to say. Enjoy your discussions and don't let me get in the way of that.

 

[Mario123311]

They've gotten so many games in the recent generation, few years apart. If that's not over-relying on them I don't know what is. They aren't even utilizing their own mascot properly these days let alone even. The only thing I possibly hold more of a grudge against is Dark Souls (which Namco relied on for quite a while despite not even having a hand in developing, They simply slapped their name on it to publish.)

I really just don't want Llyoid at this point. Just... Please no. I've had enough generic swordsmen IMO. I've been desperately await a comeback for platform/mascot characters and only as of this generation are they kind of re-surging. Add to the fact Mario and Sonic just... weren't delivering up to par during the Wii U era either... Yeah. The drought of mascot/platform games was just painful.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They've gotten so many games in the recent generation, few years apart.

Tekken 7 is literally the only Tekken game in six years and the only one that was released this generation.

Meanwhile, we've only had two Tales games in the last five years.

They have not been happening as much as you seem to think.

The only thing I possibly hold more of a grudge against is Dark Souls (which Namco relied on for quite a while despite not even having a hand in developing, They simply slapped their name on it to publish.)

Publishing is a big deal dude. It gets you funding, advertising and more. Saying Namco didn't have a hand in developing the game is like saying Nintendo doesn't do anything for Pokemon.

 

[Opossum]

They've gotten so many games in the recent generation, few years apart. If that's not over-relying on them I don't know what is. They aren't even utilizing their own mascot properly these days let alone even. The only thing I possibly hold more of a grudge against is Dark Souls (which Namco relied on for quite a while despite not even having a hand in developing, They simply slapped their name on it to publish.)

I really just don't want Llyoid at this point. Just... Please no. I've had enough generic swordsmen IMO. I've been desperately await a comeback for platform/mascot characters and only as of this generation are they kind of re-surging. Add to the fact Mario and Sonic just... weren't delivering up to par during the Wii U era either... Yeah. The drought of mascot/platform games was just painful.

I mean, I don't see what the last complaint has to do with Bandai-Namco in Smash considering we have Pac-Man covering the cartoony mascot character for the company.

 

[Schnee117]

They've gotten so many games in the recent generation, few years apart. If that's not over-relying on them I don't know what is. They aren't even utilizing their own mascot properly these days let alone even. The only thing I possibly hold more of a grudge against is Dark Souls (which Namco relied on for quite a while despite not even having a hand in developing, They simply slapped their name on it to publish.)

I really just don't want Llyoid at this point. Just... Please no. I've had enough generic swordsmen IMO. I've been desperately await a comeback for platform/mascot characters and only as of this generation are they kind of re-surging. Add to the fact Mario and Sonic just... weren't delivering up to par during the Wii U era either... Yeah. The drought of mascot/platform games was just painful.

Spoiler

I wouldn't say either series has been milked recently. Now back in the Brawl era... Hoo boy Tales.

 

[Mario123311]

I mean, I don't see what the last complaint has to do with Bandai-Namco in Smash considering we have Pac-Man covering the cartoony mascot character for the company.

I'd like a secondary to be one too for once. I've just had enough after Corrin and Cloud's reveal personally.

Tekken 7 is literally the only Tekken game in six years and the only one that was released this generation.

Meanwhile, we've only had two Tales games in the last five years.

They have not been happening as much as you seem to think.
.

Since 2011:
Tales of Xillia
Tales of the Heroes: Twin Brave
Tales of Innocence R
Tales of Xillia 2
Tales of Asteria
Tales of Link
Tales of Hearts R
Tales of Zestiria
Tales of Berseria

I can list more but you get the jist.

Whereas Klonoa and even things like Mr. Driller hasn't had an actual title in years. And Pac-Man on the other hand hasn't had any actual expansive Triple-A games on the scale of PMW's trilogy...

Ghostly Adventures didn't count.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Since 2011:
Tales of Xillia
Tales of the Heroes: Twin Brave
Tales of Innocence R
Tales of Xillia 2
Tales of Asteria
Tales of Link
Tales of Hearts R
Tales of Zestiria
Tales of Berseria

I can list more but you get the jist

Two of those are ports.

Two of those are Japan only mobile games.

And all but the last five are over five years old.

The only major releases Tales has had in years are Zestiria and Beseria.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

If any Bamco representative other than Pac-Man were to get in I'd think Heihachi is the most likely choice but I'm not a big follower of any Bamco series so correct if I'm wrong on that one.

 

[Mario123311]

Heihachi I'm iffy on considering we already have Ryu... Then again I don't think I'm too up for representing any more traditional fighting games. Ryu got in because he is essentially the face of the genre.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Heihachi I'm iffy on considering we already have Ryu... Then again I don't think I'm too up for representing any more traditional fighting games. Ryu got in because he is essentially the face of the genre.

To be fair, Street Fighter and Tekken are different subgenres.

2D Fighter vs 3D Fighter.

 

[Mario123311]

To be fair, Street Fighter and Tekken are different subgenres.

2D Fighter vs 3D Fighter.

That.... I honestly never knew.

Then again the only fighter I've seen with sort of 3D-depth is Soul Calibur. ((which even then the arena is completely flat.))

 

[Opossum]

If any Bamco representative other than Pac-Man were to get in I'd think Heihachi is the most likely choice but I'm not a big follower of any Bamco series so correct if I'm wrong on that one.

Considering Sakurai considered Heihachi for Smash 4, I'd say he's at least plausible. Yeah, he ended up not going for him due to moveset complications, but the same thing literally happened to Pac-Man in Brawl, so I don't think he's completely out of the running.

 

[Mario123311]

I still would prefer Klonoa though... Someone who would be unique and fit alongside the main mascot cast more.

I guess I feel we don't have enough cartoonish/platformer mascots. The fact Pac-Man doesn't have any material from the PMW trilogy doesn't help.