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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Opossum

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I still would prefer Klonoa though... Someone who would be unique and fit alongside the main mascot cast more.

I guess I feel we don't have enough cartoonish/platformer mascots. The fact Pac-Man doesn't have any material from the PMW trilogy doesn't help.
I mean, I'm just being honest, but Klonoa would feel so out of place to me. A relatively obscure third party character that hasn't had a game in almost a decade being alongside legends like Pac-Man, Sonic, Ryu, Mega Man, and Cloud just seems out of place. Yeah, Bayonetta also wasn't on their level, but at least she was a relevant character with Nintendo significance (and the ballot winner).
 

Mario123311

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I think you are also forgetting his GBA exclusives.

So yeah, I still argue against Bayonetta. Also Klonoa is no longer as obscure as he used to be anyway... Back when the ballot was going around I heard about him everywhere. He's been spread around the web thanks to word of mouth and whatnot.

The upcoming movie being a thing helps as well.
 
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N3ON

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I'd be perfectly content should Namco not get any additional characters.

Sure, they have ones to work with, but none seem like pressing additions. I'd rather they draw 3rd party representation from elsewhere.
 
D

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I honestly don't care who we get from Namco, since I don't really play any of their games. It's the 3rd party company I'm the least concerned about getting a second character along with Squeenix.

But if we got one "cartoony mascot" in the game, it needs to be Rayman, IMO.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
There is something I don't understand in the smash community
why most people request only a starter for next Pokemon reps in smash? I played main pokemon games but I don't care about the starters even if they had cool designs they don't play a big rule in the story I am more into the legendaries since they at least have their own movies and important in the stories.
and the whole fire-water-grass thing doesn't make sense for me
I noticed people switched their request from Blaziken to Sceptile to Decidueye.
 

Freduardo

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There is something I don't understand in the smash community
why most people request only a starter for next Pokemon reps in smash? I played main pokemon games but I don't care about the starters even if they had cool designs they don't play a big rule in the story I am more into the legendaries since they at least have their own movies and important in the stories.
and the whole fire-water-grass thing doesn't make sense for me
I noticed people switched their request from Blaziken to Sceptile to Decidueye.
Because of the bonds of friendship between a Pokémon and its trainer, obviously.
 
D

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There is something I don't understand in the smash community
why most people request only a starter for next Pokemon reps in smash? I played main pokemon games but I don't care about the starters even if they had cool designs they don't play a big rule in the story I am more into the legendaries since they at least have their own movies and important in the stories.
and the whole fire-water-grass thing doesn't make sense for me
I noticed people switched their request from Blaziken to Sceptile to Decidueye.
Because they generally appeal to people, being the first Pokemon they obtain in that region.
Really, the main reason I support my boy Decidueye is because it's my 3rd favorite Pokemon and it fits into Smash really well (being "Projectile Spam: the Pokemon").
And to be fair, Blaziken does actually make sense as a Gen 3 representitive, being somewhat of a mascot of the generation.
Not gonna comment on Sceptile other than saying I supported it because of a bandwagon (disclaimer: I'm not calling every Sceptile supporter a bandwagoner), despite not having much personal attachment to it, and lost all interest in it.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
I still think Jin offers more of a viable Smash moveset compared to Heihachi, though in a perfect world we'd get Xiaoyu instead.
There is something I don't understand in the smash community
why most people request only a starter for next Pokemon reps in smash? I played main pokemon games but I don't care about the starters even if they had cool designs they don't play a big rule in the story I am more into the legendaries since they at least have their own movies and important in the stories.
and the whole fire-water-grass thing doesn't make sense for me
I noticed people switched their request from Blaziken to Sceptile to Decidueye.
I'll just quote myself from the roster thread about why Decidueye is all over the place on here.
It's the go-to Gen 7 Pokemon rep. It's got a body type that can work for Smash, popularity thanks to being a starter, and it completes the Grass/Water/Fire trio which people want completed simply cause it looks nice. It also kinda looks edgy and cool without going overboard which works really well for the general demographic of Smashboards. We know there's gonna be another Pokemon rep, so if you don't feel strongly about any of the other candidates you just throw in Decidueye.
 

Geno Boost

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I still think Jin offers more of a viable Smash moveset compared to Heihachi, though in a perfect world we'd get Xiaoyu instead.

I'll just quote myself from the roster thread about why Decidueye is all over the place on here.
i dont see how having a cool design and being a grass and starter is something very important to be next pokemon rep
i mean my most wanted pokemon IS grass/starter/cool but the reason why i want him in smash is not becuase of this but because his story was amazing and had anime special episodes and manga as well and his playstyle would have some items from PMD series which would also finally bring pokemon spinoff contents to smash which means we could have alot of amazing music from PMD series plus a stage.
if i had to pick a gen 7 pokemon i would prefer having Tapu koko (Who saved the trainer life) or Necrozma since they played a big rule in the story and they are very interesting and are popular but do they have to be a starter and grass to be included?
 

a smart guy

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I'm back! ...No one remembers me, do they? I used to post on Rate Their Chances a fair bit, and campaigned for Chibi-Robo fairly frequently. That was a while ago...

Anyway, what does everyone think of Dr. Lobe's chances of making it into the next title? Yes, I know, extremely unlikely. However, his game was fairly popular back in the day, selling over 5 million copies! To put that into perspective, Luigi's Mansion sold around 3 million copies. It wasn't quite as popular as Brain Age, but it's difficult for Brain Age to have a representative in Smash. Dr. Kawashima is a floating head with hands, based on a real person. He got in as an assist trophy, but it's difficult to see him make the jump to playable character.

You may wonder how Dr. Lobe would fight. He mostly just talks to the player, so there's not a whole lot to draw on for move-set. In his two games, he always appears on a hybrid segway/scale. Taking inspiration from this, he would be Smash Bros first weight-changing character. He could concentrate, which would increase his brain weight, making him a heavyweight fighter like Bowser. Alternatively, he could impart his knowledge in the form of attacks, making him a lighter and more quick fighter. Managing these 2 aspects would be critical for success. His current weight would be represented by the maker on his scale, which would also be located near his percent damage. Here's a sample moveset.

Neutral-B: Compute: A pentagram forms around Dr. Lobe, increasing his weight. He can continue holding the button to continuously add to his weight. By moving the control stick, he can send a red area to one corner of the pentagram, damaging enemies hit by it.

Side-B: Get in Shape: Spend some weight to throw an object from Big Brain Academy across the screen. The projectiles can include coins, animals, and balls with numbers on them, which are all from various minigames in the series. The size and power of the projectiles are determined by Dr. Lobe's weight. This is his primary way of losing weight.

Down-B: Heavyweight: A 2 sided balance appears under Dr. Lobe and in the space next to him. Anyone caught on the other side of the balance is weighed against Dr. Lobe. If Dr. Lobe is heavier than his target, they are launched into the air, as-if they were hit with a Smash attack. If Dr. Lobe is lighter, instead he is flung into the air, giving him a quick movement option. The damage done to either side is based on the difference in weights.

Up-B: Animal Lines: A fast-moving line appears starts forming attatched to Dr. Lobe's scale. While the button is held down, the player controls the lines trajectory using the control stick, similar to PK Thunder. The line can pass through enemies, only dealing minor damage. When the button is released, Lobe follows the trajectory of the line, getting flung into the air at the end. The length of the line, and the speed Dr. Lobe follows it, are inversely proportional to Dr. Lobe's weight. In other words, this move is better the lighter Dr. Lobe is.

Final Smash: Final Evaluation: Dr. Lobe weighs a brain in front of him. Brain points begin raining down it, greatly increasing the size of the brain. Enemies hit by the brain points or the brain itself take massive damage, and suffer serious knock back. Think Jigglypuff's inflation for the brain itself, with a PK Starstorm above the brain.

The rest of his moves would be fairly straightforward sweeps with his scale and slaps from his baton. They would be slower and more powerful when he is heavy, while faster and less damaging when he is low.

What do you guys think of this moveset? Do you think he has a chance to make it into the next version of Smash?
 

Freduardo

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I still think Jin offers more of a viable Smash moveset compared to Heihachi, though in a perfect world we'd get Xiaoyu instead.

I'll just quote myself from the roster thread about why Decidueye is all over the place on here.
I kind of like Yoshimitsu as a second Namco rep.

Can do soul calibur and tekken, has unique moves and fighting style.

Would be fun.

Namu namu namu
 

N3ON

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i dont see how having a cool design and being a grass and starter is something very important to be next pokemon rep
i mean my most wanted pokemon IS grass/starter/cool but the reason why i want him in smash is not becuase of this but because his story was amazing and had anime special episodes and manga as well and his playstyle would have some items from PMD series which would also finally bring pokemon spinoff contents to smash which means we could have alot of amazing music from PMD series plus a stage.
if i had to pick a gen 7 pokemon i would prefer having Tapu koko (Who saved the trainer life) or Necrozma since they played a big rule in the story and they are very interesting and are popular but do they have to be a starter and grass to be included?
You were inquiring why a character might garner requests, not why they'd be included in Smash.

Characters don't have to be grass or a starter to be included, no, but being a starter aids in popularity and promotion, as does a cool design, and those qualities help get included. A grass typing doesn't really matter as much but it will, as of late, generate a Smash fanbase for the character. Unless they're of lacking feasibility, I suppose.

Also I wouldn't put too much stock in story importance. In their games, how much importance have the included characters, apart from perhaps Mewtwo, really had to the story? In the anime, sure, but in the games? Not a ton. The legendaries are usually the characters critical to the story, and we only have one playable legendary. Doesn't seem overly important to inclusion.

And frankly all of that is more important to Smash than anything that's happened in PMD, which Smash basically ignores.
 

Geno Boost

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You were inquiring why a character might garner requests, not why they'd be included in Smash.

Characters don't have to be grass or a starter to be included, no, but being a starter aids in popularity and promotion, as does a cool design, and those qualities help get included. A grass typing doesn't really matter as much but it will, as of late, generate a Smash fanbase for the character. Unless they're of lacking feasibility, I suppose.

Also I wouldn't put too much stock in story importance. In their games, how much importance have the included characters, apart from perhaps Mewtwo, really had to the story? In the anime, sure, but in the games? Not a ton. The legendaries are usually the characters critical to the story, and we only have one playable legendary. Doesn't seem overly important to inclusion.

And frankly all of that is more important to Smash than anything that's happened in PMD, which Smash basically ignores.
how Lucario got in brawl without being a gen 4 starter? if he promotes gen 4 then a new gen pokemon doesnt need to be a starter to promote it, Tapu koko and Necrozma didnt really need to be starters to gain popularity

if Mewtwo never got a story he wouldnt be a loved character by most of the pokemon fanase and get heavily requested for smash and might not be in smash right now so a story does something if its really good

i wouldnt say it was ignored but they might not have thought of it yet but i hope that does change since i see Mario spinoff games contents in smash and PMD series is succssesful just like them.
 

Mario123311

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Funny considering I think Sega and Capcom getting 2 reps each, It only would be fair for Namco and Square to get theirs.

It’s still something that bugged me about the final product on Wii U and 3DS.

And again: I’m still just pissed I got nothing from Pac-Man World. You know, the games I used to explain why I wanted Pac-Man in the game for the first place? Most of his moves are cameos from other games. It’s somewhat dissatisfying considering I wanted to use the Butt-Bounce and Rev-Roll so badly.

Also the fact that Cloud was more of a PlayStation character and the fact Bayonetta got in? It’s unpredictable what will happen. Anything has some sort of chance at this point as long as they are a VG character.
 
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N3ON

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how Lucario got in brawl without being a gen 4 starter? if he promotes gen 4 then a new gen pokemon doesnt need to be a starter to promote it, Tapu koko and Necrozma didnt really need to be starters to gain popularity
Did you just... not read where I said you don't have to be a starter? I said it helped to get popularity and promotion. Which it does.

if Mewtwo never got a story he wouldnt be a loved character by most of the pokemon fanase and get heavily requested for smash and might not be in smash right now so a story does something if its really good
I feel you're pretty much ignoring my points while doubling down on your own. Any given Pokemon that isn't legendary likely does not have an in-game story. Most Pokemon aren't important enough for their own "stories". Does that impede their popularity? Do characters that have their own stories (aka legendaries) inherently become more popular? No. Does it at all effect Smash? Not discernibly, no.

You're arguing something that happened to only 1 of 9 playable Pokemon in the Smash series. And yet you're asking what starters have to do with anything when 4 of 9 (excluding Pikachu) have been starters? It comes down to promotion, popularity, and feasibility. Not story importance.

i wouldnt say it was ignored but they might not have thought of it yet but i hope that does change since i see Mario spinoff games contents in smash and PMD series is succssesful just like them.
What PMD content have we received in Smash? I'm actually asking, because outside of a mention in the Chronicle I literally can think of nothing.

Just because you envision it does not make it so.

Funny considering I think Sega and Capcom getting 2 reps each, It only would be fair for Namco and Square to get theirs.

It’s still something that bugged me about the final product on Wii U and 3DS.

And again: I’m still just pissed I got nothing from Pac-Man World. You know, the games I used to explain why I wanted Pac-Man in the game for the first place? Most of his moves are cameos from other games. It’s somewhat dissatisfying considering I wanted to use the Butt-Bounce and Rev-Roll so badly.

Also the fact that Cloud was more of a PlayStation character and the fact Bayonetta got in? It’s unpredictable what will happen. Anything has some sort of chance at this point as long as they are a VG character.
When it comes to third-party companies, saying there should be parity is as faulty as saying there should be a cap. It's on a character-by-character basis, there shouldn't be some quota to hit.

If we get Rayman would you argue we should get another Ubisoft character? If we get Shovel Knight would you argue we should get another Yacht Club character?
 

Geno Boost

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Did you just... not read where I said you don't have to be a starter? I said it helped to get popularity and promotion. Which it does.


I feel you're pretty much ignoring my points while doubling down on your own. Any given Pokemon that isn't legendary likely does not have an in-game story. Most Pokemon aren't important enough for their own "stories". Does that impede their popularity? Do characters that have their own stories (aka legendaries) inherently become more popular? No. Does it at all effect Smash? Not discernibly, no.

You're arguing something that happened to only 1 of 9 playable Pokemon in the Smash series. And yet you're asking what starters have to do with anything when 4 of 9 (excluding Pikachu) have been starters? It comes down to promotion, popularity, and feasibility. Not story importance.


What PMD content have we received in Smash? I'm actually asking, because outside of a mention in the Chronicle I literally can think of nothing.

Just because you envision it does not make it so.


When it comes to third-party companies, saying there should be parity is as faulty as saying there should be a cap. It's on a character-by-character basis, there shouldn't be some quota to hit.

If we get Rayman would you argue we should get another Ubisoft character? If we get Shovel Knight would you argue we should get another Yacht Club character?
Oh Sorry for fast reading...
But I understand now what you mean
It's true there is nothing other than chronicle but I hope we get more than this in the next smash game
 
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Frostwraith

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Not even that. ROB made it in after all.
R.O.B. may not exactly be a character in the same sense as the other characters in the roster but:
1. He's owned by Nintendo
2. He's related to video games because he's used in the NES games Gyromite and Stack-Up

He's not a character from a game like Mario or Link, but you could argue then that the Super Scope item isn't from a video game either even though it is a piece of hardware used for a Nintendo console and required to play certain games, some of which owned by Nintendo. Even the GameCube itself appears as a trophy in Melee, not to mention other cameos of Nintendo hardware like the Wii Fit Balance Board.

All of this to say that Sakurai quite obviously considers Nintendo hardware as eligible content for Smash. The Flat Zone stage is also set inside a giant Game & Watch game, after all.
 

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Also the fact that Cloud was more of a PlayStation character and the fact Bayonetta got in? It’s unpredictable what will happen. Anything has some sort of chance at this point as long as they are a VG character.
Bayonetta got in due to the ballot. She's a rule breaker but she's ultimately supposed to be.

Regardless, Cloud may be more attributed to Playstation, but Final Fantasy has a deep and rich history with Nintendo and Cloud is the biggest icon of the series. I don't feel he's a random choice or a sign that anyone is eligible at all.
 
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EdwardSponge

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I wonder why they haven't shown the ballout results to this date. the game is finished year ago
Because it was rigged and the bayo devs probably paid sakurai under the table to ignore all characters above her, also known as 'unrealisable characters' and bayo was really easy and cheap to add as all her animations are ripped from her games. It was just a stunt to get people hyped for the final character additions.

I sell tinfoil hats and tinfoil hat accersories.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Bayonetta got in due to the ballot. She's a rule breaker but she's ultimately supposed to be.

Regardless, Cloud may be more attributed to Playstation, but Final Fantasy has a deep and rich history with Nintendo and Cloud is the biggest icon of the series. I don't feel he's a random choice or a sign that anyone is eligible at all.
Which makes it funnier when he was heavily based off of Dissidia in every way.

Either way, he broke no "fanrules" beyond "must have a significant appearance on a Nintendo game" at best. Not sure where people even got that idea when even with the incorrect translation, it said they only needed a Nintendo appearance. It's just people looking for stuff to justify the idea that Smash is supposed to solely be Nintendo-centric, which isn't the case anymore. 3rd parties are simply meant to be iconic, with obviously Bayonetta being the sole exception. Snake got in for different reasons entirely, but he still fits the iconic mold anyway.
 

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Because people would ***** big time no matter the results.
Essentially this.

People would ***** about who voted for <insert character they don't like> and whine about how <insert character they like> had less votes than what they imagined.
 

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It's also just not Nintendo's style to be so candid or transparent.

Don't ever expect to see the full results tbh.
 

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If Namco-Bandai got a second character, I'd be fine with many of the options, but I'd love to see Agumon from Digimon show up in Smash.
 

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Which makes it funnier when he was heavily based off of Dissidia in every way.

Either way, he broke no "fanrules" beyond "must have a significant appearance on a Nintendo game" at best. Not sure where people even got that idea when even with the incorrect translation, it said they only needed a Nintendo appearance. It's just people looking for stuff to justify the idea that Smash is supposed to solely be Nintendo-centric, which isn't the case anymore. 3rd parties are simply meant to be iconic, with obviously Bayonetta being the sole exception. Snake got in for different reasons entirely, but he still fits the iconic mold anyway.
It should also be noted that Final Fantasy VII was originally planned to be a SNES title before it got moved over to the PlayStation. That could also explain Cloud's inclusion.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It should also be noted that Final Fantasy VII was originally planned to be a SNES title before it got moved over to the PlayStation. That could also explain Cloud's inclusion.
Not really relevant at all, realistically. He was just the most iconic rpg protagonist. It's just he was easier to consider and get in since he already had a small Nintendo appearance. That means the companies worked together before, which makes it easier for Sakurai to get them to agree again.

It had so little to do with Nintendo it's ridiculous. Cloud practically make the 3D RPG genre what it is today. That's who people look at for the biggest notable character. It's not a matter of what system he was on(and it did push the Playstation heavily), it's a matter of what he did for the genre. That's kind of the point of the iconic characters Sakurai chooses, how big and notable they are, what they did for gaming, etc. Every 3rd party(bar Bayo) happen to also make a huge gaming impact in their respective genre, literally paving the world for later.

A Halo game was planned for the DS, Master Chief confirmed!
In all seriousness I doubt cancelled plans matter
That said, he pretty much is the most known for the FPS genre too, pretty much redefining it. I'd still love to see him in under that idea, although there's many reasons I don't believe he'll be in, and none of them include "hasn't had a Nintendo appearance", as that's the easiest barrier to break compared to what's holding him back.

> More than once Halo had chances for a Nintendo appearance and it was denied. This actually hurts his chances a bit. Minecraft being the most recent one.
> Making him work well within the Smash environment, while keeping his signature weapon.
> Related to the first point, would the companies even agree to it? Microsoft being direct competition still matters and can affect it, especially since they don't want Halo on Nintendo at all, even cameos.

Those are much more important overall when it comes to his inclusion. Even a character with no Nintendo appearance can still get in as long as the companies are fine with it. If they were fine with it before(hence Cloud), it's even easier. If they never even thought about it, it doesn't really do much to affect the character's chances. If they've said no before, it's far less likely. Mind you, them being obscure hurts far more than simply not having a Nintendo appearance just yet. Unless they're a ballot winner, and even then, it's more like someone who is less obscure and easier to work with could get in. Ironically, if they're that obscure, they probably wouldn't have a severe amount of votes. But polls don't mean everything anyway, as they tend to appeal to specific demographics.
 

Zerp

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I wonder why they haven't shown the ballout results to this date. the game is finished year ago
Nintendo doesn't care about that kind of stuff and they won't ever release it, although I think it'd be smart for them to eventually release it after an Smash is announced because controversy gathers attention, and no matter who did well and who didn't there'd be a portion of the community up in arms over the fact Character Y/Bayonetta did better than Character X and why supporters of less major characters should have given up and supported X so they could have beat Bayonetta/Character Y. They could also rig the results to show whatever they want and make it as rage-worthy as possible, start by revealing characters who did poorly compared to the main ones people were complaining about to further enflame their audience and create more attention and only reveal the the main characters people were mad about not getting at the very end to milk the most out of the situation.
 
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Ghirahilda

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So, are we expecting Smash to appear at E3 2018 or sooner?

Or later? Ew.
I WANT it to be revealed sooner, but I expect it to be revealed on e3 too.

I only expect it to bee revealed sooner if we are getting a port instead of new one. AND if this happens we aren't getting a new version of Smash Bros till 2020 or even later.
 

EdwardSponge

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I WANT it to be revealed sooner, but I expect it to be revealed on e3 too.

I only expect it to bee revealed sooner if we are getting a port instead of new one. AND if this happens we aren't getting a new version of Smash Bros till 2020 or even later.
I imagine that Nintendo want to get Smash Bros out the door as soon as possible to sell the Switch, so I think we might even get it in 2019 if we're lucky... or unlucky if its rushed.
 

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> More than once Halo had chances for a Nintendo appearance and it was denied. This actually hurts his chances a bit. Minecraft being the most recent one.
> Making him work well within the Smash environment, while keeping his signature weapon.
> Related to the first point, would the companies even agree to it? Microsoft being direct competition still matters and can affect it, especially since they don't want Halo on Nintendo at all, even cameos.
I do recall that a Banjo-Kazooie reference originally existed in Donkey Kong 64, but it was removed before the game got released. Of course, this occurred before Microsoft bought Rare Ltd..
 
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Mario123311

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I'll just keep on praying for Klonoa....


Or for Pac-Man to get stuff from his most memorable games outside of the arcade outings. Custom Moves were also wasted potential.

Namco Bandai can't seem to realize PMW was what made Pac relevant again in the early 2000's.
 

SmashChu

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Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
I imagine that Nintendo want to get Smash Bros out the door as soon as possible to sell the Switch, so I think we might even get it in 2019 if we're lucky... or unlucky if its rushed.
Probably early 2019. It's the 20th anniversary and I wouldn't be surprised if it started development as the DLC ended. Earliest is 2018 but I don't see it happening. Could get push back if Pokemon makes Holiday 2018.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,112
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
I do recall that a Banjo-Kazooie reference originally existed in Donkey Kong 64, but it was removed before the game got released. Of course, this occurred before Microsoft bought Rare Ltd..
Banjo is in Diddy Kong Racing, so the worlds were possibly intended to be connected at one point. Things change, though.
 
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