Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SpiralGalaxies]

I don't know why so many people are requesting Geno. He only appeared in an obscure SNES game.

I...would not call Super Mario RPG particularly obscure.

also thanks for the responses about geno everyone!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean Sakurai literally considered him previously and thats more you can say than most of the characters we all request on here

He supposedly considered him for Brawl and then he never added him in Smash 4. I wonder why?

And you'd be completely offbase and the only one being disrespectful, but go off I guess.

And I don't feel bad for saying you are offbase, because you can't even COUNTER it. You simply just say you disagree.

Which shows to me all I need to know.

Oh woe is me. Disagreeing that Geno is some sort of gaming icon is a perfectly acceptable counter. Because I don't believe that's true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know why so many people are requesting Geno. He only appeared in an obscure SNES game.

His unique design is probably what helped him, a puppet with gun arms that turns into a cannon? That could be cool for Smash

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't know why so many people are requesting Geno. He only appeared in an obscure SNES game.

One that Sakurai has acknowledged. Nintendo themselves has acknowledge on the Virtual Console and SNES Mini.

Recently they also tweeted about ''Team Geno" or ''Team Mallow" showing that they acknowledge the cast of the game is popular.

It's an ''obscure" game that has a huge cult following to the point one of the characters from it has been one of the longest standing fan request for Smash Brothers alongside Ridley and K. Rool. Main villains from big Nintendo franchises.

That's god damn incredible. I don't care what you say. That is nothing short of amazing and a ''Little Engine That Could" type deal.

 

[CannonStreak]

They kind of do. People are desperate for a reveal, therefore wannabe "leakers" play off of this by "leaking" reveals coming up soon in an attempt to make people get their hopes up.

I meant in a more realistic, what-Nintendo-is-actually-planning kind of way, if you will. We all know Nintendo doesn't go by what leakers say, well, most of the time, so they are probably going to announce a Direct some time other than what the leakers say. Plus, from what I remember, official Directs that don't focus on just one or two games, is not a mini Direct, etc. have not been as common as they were before Iwata died, and I have doubts that a Direct will happen soon after the month in which E3 has happened. Being desperate is not exactly being realistic, so unless there is another good reason why they say July, I think we're gonna wait until August or September before we get anything from Nintendo.

 

[RileyXY1]

You can't overrepresent Mario or Pokemon.

It's physically impossible. They're the flagship Nintendo franchises. There could be 14 reps each for each franchise in a future game and that'd still be fine.

It'd be like complaining about seeing Mickey Mouse and Disney princesses in a Disney theme park. No **** there's a lot of them there. That's what Disney/Nintendo makes a lot of their bread and butter off of.

Mario is Nintendo's only flagship franchise. Nintendo doesn't even make the Pokemon games, although they have partial ownership of the IP.

 

[Noipoi]

If i'm being honest, I don't understand the love for Geno.
I never played Mario RPG so I don't know what makes him special or why he's so popular.
But saying him getting in Smash is disrespectful is honestly the dumbest thing iv'e read all day.
For whatever reason he's got fans, and showing some love to those fans is the farthest thing from disrespectful.
As long as you show Ashley fans love too.

 

[Deleted member]

You can't overrepresent Mario or Pokemon.

It's physically impossible. They're the flagship Nintendo franchises. There could be 14 reps each for each franchise in a future game and that'd still be fine.

It'd be like complaining about seeing Mickey Mouse and Disney princesses in a Disney theme park. No **** there's a lot of them there. That's what Disney/Nintendo makes a lot of their bread and butter off of.

Only about 1% of all Pokemon are playable. Pokemon is pretty underrepresented.

/s

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mario is Nintendo's only flagship franchise. Nintendo doesn't even make the Pokemon games, although they have partial ownership of the IP.

Claiming Pokemon isn't one of the most successfull and marketable franchises period would be flat out wrong too though

 

[Noipoi]

Only about 1% of all Pokemon are playable. Pokemon is pretty underrepresented.

/s

798 newcomers in Ultimate, and they're all Pokemon.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Mario is Nintendo's only flagship franchise. Nintendo doesn't even make the Pokemon games, although they have partial ownership of the IP.

Hairsplitting at it's finest.

Pokemon Company might have stake in Pokemon.

But at the end of the day. It's still a Nintendo franchise.

You're not going to see it ANYWHERE else.

It's the second part of the big two for Nintendo.

So yeah it IS a flagship franchise for Nintendo whether you really like it or not.

You could argue Zelda or Donkey Kong, but it has even surpassed them in the public eye when they hear the word ''Nintendo."

 

[RileyXY1]

Claiming Pokemon isn't one of the most successfull and marketable franchises period would be flat out wrong too though

I never said that. Pokemon is heavily successful, but it should be treated to the level of Zelda and Fire Emblem. 9 characters is too much for one series, in my opinion.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

No. It's really not.



Irrelevant.


Uh, no. The blockade is he's irrelevant.

How is it a Ridley situation? Last time a checked Ridley was an antagonist from a highly popular video game franchise who appeared in numerous games.


Once again, irrelevant.

Twice again, i-re-le-vant.


How old was Sheik when she was added in Smash? 4 years old? Plus she was attached to Zelda because she IS Zelda. Plus, she's a three time veteran.

So, thrice again, irrelevant.

You should really read this, specifically the part about Geno. From Sakurai:

—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?


Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.


—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?


Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.


When Geno got official approval of his popularity from the guy who decides the roster, as well as an outright statement about a desire to make him playable since Brawl, all right before Ultimate's project plan proposal occurred, you can't just pass Geno off anymore as an irrelevant internet fad. I used to be a big Geno detractor who spouted off the typical arguments against him, but in the end Sakurai's word is what matters, and the big question against Geno is if he can be licensed out from SquareEnix, not if he's "deserving" or "relevant" enough.

 

[McSpanker]

There are definitely a few characters I don't want but I can't imagine being mad at people who want them in or if they were to be included lmao

 

[Irarius]

so i have been abscent for a while anything new? any leaks or rumors? i heard k rool and dixie will be revealed soon from rumors 3 days ago or so,

if that comes true then yay k rool/dixie fans there you go,

 

[Mutsukki]

He supposedly considered him for Brawl and then he never added him in Smash 4. I wonder why?

You tell me! Because Sakurai clearly said he wanted him in Smash 4 and had to be content with the Mii Fighter costume.

But nah, your made up reasoning is definitely the reality

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You should really read this, specifically the part about Geno. From Sakurai:

—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?


Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.


—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?


Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.


When Geno got official approval of his popularity from the guy who decides the roster, as well as an outright statement about a desire to make him playable since Brawl, all right before Ultimate's project plan proposal occurred, you can't just pass Geno off anymore as an irrelevant internet fad. I used to be a big Geno detractor who spouted the typical arguments against him, but in the end Sakurai's word is what matters, and the big question against Geno is if he can be licensed out from SquareEnix, not if he's "deserving" or "relevant enough".

How many non-playable characters have even been stated by Sakurai to be a good fit for Smash? That is something noteworthy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I never said that. Pokemon is heavily successful, but it should be treated to the level of Zelda and Fire Emblem. 9 characters is too much for one series, in my opinion.

We know. Because every time someone suggests an extra Pokemon you say this. No offence, but your opinion isn't an actual argument. Zelda's a popular franchise but it is nowhere near Pokemon's Smash Hit status. Hell, Fire Emblem wishes it could be nearly as popular, any franchise wishes it was

 

[Deleted member]

798 newcomers in Ultimate, and they're all Pokemon.

I am now a Politoed main

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

798 newcomers in Ultimate, and they're all Pokemon.

Can't wait to main Castform.

 

[RileyXY1]

One thing I'm noticing is there's now all these support threads for random SM Pokemon who are never getting in.

 

[Pyra]

I don't know why so many people are requesting Geno. He only appeared in an obscure SNES game.

That's a weird way to spell "the mother of all Mario RPGs"

Edit:

One thing I'm noticing is there's now all these support threads for random SM Pokemon who are never getting in.

Okay, I get it, you're just negative haha

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Everyone is backing Geno now for his popularity which is fair but why have we been poo pooing on Rayman when he has everything going for him that Geno does. I'll say this with 100% confidence: Rayman performed better than any other third party in the ballot. Banjo may have given him a run for his money but I think ArtsyOmni's stunt eventually led to a burst in popularity for Rayman.

 

[RileyXY1]

That's a weird way to spell "the mother of all Mario RPGs"

Said game never got a European release, and there are more relevant Square characters to choose from.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

One that Sakurai has acknowledged. Nintendo themselves has acknowledge on the Virtual Console and SNES Mini.

Etc.

It's an ''obscure" game that has a huge cult following to the point one of the characters from it has been one of the longest standing fan request for Smash Brothers alongside Ridley and K. Rool. Main villains from big Nintendo franchises.

That's god damn incredible. I don't care what you say. That is nothing short of amazing and a ''Little Engine That Could" type deal.

Geno's gonna need to do better than that. Plenty of long requested characters and originally considered like him are currently assist trophies in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

The difference between Ridley being requested and Geno being requested is that Ridley still works without requiring a cult following on the internet. Plenty of casual fans of Metroid and Super Smash Bros know who he is.

The reason his inclusion is disrespectful is that all of the other characters have actually done something to earn their inclusion. If Geno is viable, than literally any Nintendo character in existence is as long the following is vocal enough.

I'd prefer newcomers have some sort of rhyme and reason and I have every right to feel that way. I'm not gonna throw a fit if he gets in, and I won't object to it even slightly if he is announced as DLC. I'd probably be excited. But, it would be remarkably disappointing if he was chosen in the base game among so many other better options available.

A fan base in support of someone like Rex, shouldn't be shafted in favor of a cult following for a character like Geno.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Mario is Nintendo's only flagship franchise. Nintendo doesn't even make the Pokemon games, although they have partial ownership of the IP.

Mario, then Pokémon, and then Zelda

I never said that. Pokemon is heavily successful, but it should be treated to the level of Zelda and Fire Emblem. 9 characters is too much for one series, in my opinion.

Pokémon is bigger than those two series, and jokes on you they only have 7 playable characters in Smash (Pokémon Trainer counts as one, like how Dark Pit and Lucina count as one character for Pit and Marth instead of having their own number)

We know. Because every time someone suggests an extra Pokemon you say this. No offence, but your opinion isn't an actual argument. Zelda's a popular franchise but it is nowhere near Pokemon's Smash Hit status. Hell, Fire Emblem wishes it could be nearly as popular, any franchise wishes it was

Except Mario, cause he don’t wanna remember the dark times he went through through his movie days (but gaming wise only Mario #1, while Pokémon is #1 media wise)

Okay, I get it, you're just negative haha

You should’ve seen him during the pre-Ridley in Ultimate days

 

[Tree Gelbman]

To be fair Sakurai straight up went to Square Enix to talk about Cloud expecting for them to laugh in his face. He said he didn't think that'd be possible.

He didn't think one of the most iconic RPG faces was possible, so why would he even think Geno was possible? Now that possibility has potentially become real for him because they said yes to not only Cloud, but letting him use the image of Geno for a DLC costume they sold.

The only other Square DLC Mii Costume was for Chocobo another icon image of Final Fantasy their main game. They didn't force him to do a Dragon Quest or Tomb Raider, etc, costume. They said ''Yeah, sure" to a Geno costume.

And considering we know that Cloud used Ike as frame work. It would seem the last few DLC adds had to be something that were achievable very easily. So I doubt he had time to work on a fully fledged Geno for Smash 4 DLC.

Put the puzzle pieces together and it doesn't take a whole lot of mental hijinx to see why Geno seems like a very real chance now for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

How old was Sheik when she was added in Smash? 4 years old?

Well when you put it like that suddenly my Melee shipping fanfic idea sounds way squickier.

 

[Deleted member]

Can't wait to main Castform.

I'll just counterpick Golduck. Castform has such a bad Golduck matchup because Cloud Nine prevents Castform from using its weather moves.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not all the newcomers are going to be fan favorites. Also, I have given up my negativity towards Pokemon newcomers.

 

[Noipoi]

One thing I'm noticing is there's now all these support threads for random SM Pokemon who are never getting in.

Wow, you're just a ray of sunshine huh?

Not all the newcomers are going to be fan favorites. Also, I have given up my negativity towards Pokemon newcomers.

In that case, who do you think will get in?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Relevance only really matters in choosing who Sakurai wants playable. Geno doesn't have this issue because he already wants him playable. Rest solely relies on licensing and moveset working out.

Licensing was very difficult during Brawl, and the only reason Geno didn't appear(Sakurai made it clear that it didn't work out with Square-Enix. Negotiations fell through). Sakurai couldn't get him during Smash 4, and it was clear it was hard to get a lot of content for Cloud with the DLC budget. So he got Geno technically playable via a Mii Costume. In addition, he already made it clear he absolutely wants him playable. Him being "irrelevant' or from a somewhat obscure Mario game(somewhat, because it's gotten a ton of attention these days, but was one of the lesser known games before that) won't matter at all, since it doesn't affect timing like games that are currently coming out around the time of development(which is the time of when relevance plays a role, but again, it only plays a role for a character he isn't sure he wants playable. Once he wants the character playable, relevance is thrown out by that point).

The only thing that'll keep Geno from being playable(which is far more likely than before since it's easier to spend money on the base game than a DLC budget) is that Square-Enix says no. Or Nintendo does. Cause Sakurai sure as hell ain't going to. At least not no to the character itself. He may say no to the deal if it's not good enough, but to be frank, that's not any different from what happened with Brawl, which is clearly "negotiations falling through". Could it happen again? Sure. I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Mutsukki]

Geno's gonna need to do better than that. Plenty of long requested characters and originally considered like him are currently assist trophies in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

The difference between Ridley being requested and Geno being requested is that Ridley still works without requiring a cult following on the internet. Plenty of casual fans of Metroid and Super Smash Bros know who he is.

The reason his inclusion is disrespectful is that all of the other characters have actually done something to earn their inclusion. If Geno is viable, than literally any Nintendo character in existence is as long the following is vocal enough.

I'd prefer newcomers have some sort of rhyme and reason and I have every right to feel that way. I'm not gonna throw a fit if he gets in, and I won't object to it even slightly if he is announced as DLC. I'd probably be excited. But, it would be remarkably disappointing if he was chosen in the base game among so many other better options available.

A fan base in support of someone like Rex, shouldn't be shafted in favor of a cult following for a character like Geno.

"Cult Following"

Character has been asked since Brawl days

Literally everyone knows Super Mario RPG, no matter how much you deny it

Director of the game wants him in

Do you even read the words you type

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

Everyone is backing Geno now for his popularity which is fair but why have we been poo pooing on Rayman when he has everything going for him that Geno does. I'll say this with 100% confidence: Rayman performed better than any other third party in the ballot. Banjo may have given him a run for his money but I think ArtsyOmni's stunt eventually led to a burst in popularity for Rayman.

I don't think anyone has been poo-pooing on rayman though? At least not in this thread, he's generally regarded pretty positively.

EDIT: @Tougon Castform can still use thunderbolt even in normal form. checkmate duck!

 

[KMDP]

Said game never got a European release, and there are more relevant Square characters to choose from.

Super Mario RPG got a European release on the Wii Virtual Console. Just saying.

Even so, it could still be considered a Niche game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

A Xenoblade character getting shafted for anything other than another Xenoblade character is laughable.

That shows a true lack of understanding how these reps work.

Rex's only problem is Sakurai's thoughts on him, vs his thoughts on Elma. Plus you know the time frame of the project plan potentially.

Geno or ANY third party/first rep for that matter has nothing to do with Rex if they're not from Xenoblade.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One thing I'm noticing is there's now all these support threads for random SM Pokemon who are never getting in.

And what's the problem with that? The thing with Pokemon is that every Pokemon is loved by someone out there and people can very easily want to see their favourite in a game they're looking forward to

Also, part of me still believes Vergeben as his Smash stuff has yet to be proven wrong, so Simon's the only character I'm really banking on

 

[RileyXY1]

In that case, who do you think will get in?

Decidueye, Incineroar, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, or some Gen 8 Pokemon as DLC, but I doubt the latter is going to happen.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

I'm all for fan service until it sinks to the low of including a completely random character from a completely random game. Not even a protagonist or a classic NES title. Just a random party member from a one-off Mario RPG who never appeared again.

I've never ever actively wanted a character to NOT be in Smash, but adding Geno is just disrespectful. That's where I draw the line when it comes to fan service.

I'm sorry but what's really disrespectful is completely making fun of and going against a character that would make lots of people very happy. Really, I don't get why people are so butt hurt about characters they don't like getting in, at least in terms of video game characters. Like, you're fully allowed to not want a character, but don't ask for them to not be included. Do people not realize that you could, I dunno... Not play that character if you don't like them?

For example, I don't see the appeal in Ashley whatsoever. I feel that she is massively overrated considering she barely appears in her own series, but I would never be against the characters inclusion. People who are constantly just like 'I don't want this character because *insert whining here*' and actively go against the character's inclusion are so unbelievably petty. Basically, just please, don't be a jerk and actively wish for a character to not make it in the game just because of pathetic reasoning.

BTW, TheLastJinjo, this really wasn't geared toward you at all, I was just doing a reply and it kinda evolved into a rant, if I upset you it wasn't my intention to at all

 

[Will]

Said game never got a European release, and there are more relevant Square characters to choose from.

Well lets see here:
1. Sora (director said no)
2. FFVII character #2

Yeah thats a lot of other relevant Square characters