Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

And why exactly is Ken more likely than Chun-Li?

Ken is a super easy clone of Ryu.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Jumping on the "humanoid newcomer thing". This is gunna be super debatable, but I'm looking for anime/realistic human additions, not cartoony.
Smash 64: (25% of newcomers)
Melee:(40%)
Brawl:(25% (Pokemon Trainer is 1)
4:ultryu:
(50% (Mii Fighter is 1)
Ultimate: None so far.

Yea this all goes by what you are considering. For example Kid Icarus could go more cartoony...but Palutena is way anime/realistic. And what point are the Mario Princesses considered realisitc enough? Also you have to include Zelda characters if you're considering Fire Emblem/Kid Icarus. All except Too Link are very realistic humanoid characters.

4 added a lot of realistic human characters, but so did Melee. I'll probably do one on humanoid vs not.

Doesn’t look so bad

 

[Pakky]

And why exactly is Ken more likely than Chun-Li?

Looking at Rodin for example from a trophy in Smash 4 to an AT in Ultimate makes me think that some of the newer things added via DLC in 4 were taken from finished assets made during Ultimate's development. Ken being a trophy in 4 makes me think it was a lower res version of a model from Ultimate

 

[Deleted member]

Don't know if anyone has posted this before, so I figured I would since I found them.

40+ Minutes worth of offscreen yet very clear gameplay footage with fully audible audio.

Some miscellaneous notes I took:
- Prism Tower, Spirit Train, Kongo Falls, and Peach's Castle all look gorgeous upscaled in HD.
- The Splatfest version of Moray Towers makes me so happy and brings back many fond memories.
- Inkling and Ridley's victory themes are too perfect for them.
- The character callouts seem to be recycled from Smash U, aside from the returning veterans and new characters who weren't in that game.
- Ike's voice is much more intense, especially when yelling "Aether!"
- Fox sounds so much better.
- The crowd chant for the Pokémon Trainer seems to be "I choose you!"
- All of the "woomy" and "ngyes" a Splatoon fan could ever want.
- Ridley's screen KO is glorious.
- You can definitely still have Nana as your main Ice Climber.
- Sheik's new Final Smash has her dashing with some sort of dagger or knife drawn at the opponent. Like Marth's Critical Hit, you can miss.
- Unlike every other fighter, when Ice Climbers come out victorious, the announcer says "win" instead of "wins." I was worried he might be grammatically incorrect, but he's not!
- Ever need an indicator of who's in first on Moray Towers? Judd and Lil' Judd have you covered. They'll hold a flag of the color of the player port on whoever's in the lead (red for Player 1, Blue for Player 2, Yellow for Player 3, Green for Player 4, and so on.)

I know, right? Proof that Ultimate is by far going to be the best Smash Bros. game.

Also notice that Mario uses purple coins when he uses his up b and Zelda is now more sassy while Ridley makes a smile when winning.

 

[Deleted member]

And why exactly is Ken more likely than Chun-Li?

Because everyone gets an echo, apparently.

 

[CannonStreak]

Outside of ridley, i always wanted goemon. Much better fit and anyone who owned a n64 would have seen his persona and how great he is.

Also. That soundtrack.

Much better choice than simon.

And, ge was in about 25 games. And was a special costume in the new bomberman.

I'll be completely honest. I have always wanted to see Goemon in a Smash Bros game. As unlikely as he is, I played one of his games on the N64 and I loved every bit of it. I would actually love to give Goemon a chance in terms of being played as if he was in a Smash Bros. game.

 

[Deleted member]

Looking at Rodin for example from a trophy in Smash 4 to an AT in Ultimate makes me think that some of the newer things added via DLC in 4 were taken from finished assets made during Ultimate's development. Ken being a trophy in 4 makes me think it was a lower res version of a model from Ultimate

It's his Street Fighter IV model.

 

[Pakky]

It's his Street Fighter IV model.

Do we know that for sure?

 

[Deleted member]

Do we know that for sure?

Yes, we do. Not everything is a re-purposed asset from Ultimate.

 

[dezeray112]

Glad you asked!
View attachment 152757
Allow me to introduce you to this hidden gem, released in Japan only, Dream Mix TV World Fighters brought characters from Konami (Snake, Simon), Hudson (Bomberman, Master Higgens), and Takara (Beyblade, ****ING Optimus Prime), and was stylized like Smash.

Also look closely at Snake's moveset, some things may seem familiar.

It even had Bloody Roar's Yugo and Transformer's Megatron in there too if I recall.

 

[Pakky]

Yes, we do. Not everything is a re-purposed asset from Ultimate.

Do you have proof?

A comparison shot or something of the sort?

Because everyone gets an echo, apparently.

That's not what I was eluding to.

Some characters though important are just remixes of other characters in their games.

Ken is fast fire Ryu

Jeanne is harder Witch time with more combos Bayo.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Jumping on the "humanoid newcomer thing". This is gunna be super debatable, but I'm looking for anime/realistic human additions, not cartoony.
Smash 64: (25% of newcomers)
Melee:(40%)
Brawl:(25% (Pokemon Trainer is 1)
4:ultryu:
(50% (Mii Fighter is 1)
Ultimate: None so far.

Yea this all goes by what you are considering. For example Kid Icarus could go more cartoony...but Palutena is way anime/realistic. And what point are the Mario Princesses considered realisitc enough? Also you have to include Zelda characters if you're considering Fire Emblem/Kid Icarus. All except Too Link are very realistic humanoid characters.

4 added a lot of realistic human characters, but so did Melee. I'll probably do one on humanoid vs not.

The sequel. Just humans/human passing (so humanoid Pokemon and Furries don't count).

64: (50%)
Melee:(65%)
Brawl:(50%)
4:ultrosalina:(70%)
Ultimate So far:(66%)
Grand Total: 60% of characters are humanoid.

Some quick decisions I made -
Pokemon Trainer doesn't count because you play as the Pokemon. Felt weird to count them.
Miis are far from human. I also just didn't want to count them.
MegaMan is a robot yeah? Yeah.
Inklings are mostly in a human form.

Yeah so if you're just a furry I guess you can be dissapointed with Smash's mostly human roster.

This all proves nothing and just allowed me to do something else at work.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I never got why people have said this to be honest.

Goemon is an extremely niche series, not nearly as successful as Castlevania or even Frogger.

25 games is not niche.

 

[Cosmic77]

I usually don't pay much attention to release dates and possible new characters to coincide with them, but I wanted to get an opinion from everyone on Captain Toad and Ashley.

So today, the Treasure Tracker ports were released. We got no new Smash content related to Toad or even Mario in general this week. Assuming we get nothing new next week either, would you consider this to hurt Captain Toad's chances? If the same thing were to happen with Ashley and WarioWare Gold in the beginning of August, would you consider it to hurt her chances too? Keep in mind Greninja wasn't shown off when X/Y was released, but also remember that Smash 4 had a year and a half to span out information.

The only reason I ask is because the window between this Smash's official reveal and its December release is the shortest we've ever had. We typically don't have character reveals that line up with releases, but seeing how we have very little time to spread out these reveals anyway, I think showing a character close to the release of a new game would actually be a good marketing strategy. Not making the newcomer reveals and new releases go along with each other would just seem like a missed opportunity to me.

 

[Deleted member]

25 games is not niche.

Considering only 5 of them released internationally and the last game in the series came out in 2005, I'd say yes, it is very, very niche.

 

[Deleted member]

Miis are far from human. I also just didn't want to count them.

Miis are human, what are you talking about? They are based off of them as they share quite some qualities and traits to humans.
Also why not? I understand Miis are confusing to count but they still are fighters.

 

[NintenZ]

25 games is not niche.

That isn’t what niche means.

A series could have 30 games and still be niche based off how it performs and who it’s target demographic is, besides, only five of the games got localized anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

Do you have proof?

A comparison shot or something of the sort?

I'll do you one better:

Spoiler: Large Image

The left is one of Ken's textures from Street Fighter IV, the right is taken from his Smash 4 trophy model.

 

[Opossum]

25 games is not niche.

It doesn't matter how many games it has if they don't reach a wide audience. The latter is what constitutes whether something is niche.

 

[Pakky]

I'll do you one better:

Spoiler: Large Image

View attachment 152883

The left is one of Ken's textures from Street Fighter IV, the right is taken from his Smash 4 trophy model.

Textures aren't models...

You can UV map two different models and apply the same textures.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I usually don't pay much attention to release dates and possible new characters to coincide with them, but I wanted to get an opinion from everyone on Captain Toad and Ashley.

So today, the Treasure Tracker ports were released. We got no new Smash content related to Toad or even Mario in general this week. Assuming we get nothing new next week either, would you consider this to hurt Captain Toad's chances? If the same thing were to happen with Ashley and WarioWare Gold in the beginning of August, would you consider it to hurt her chances too? Keep in mind Greninja wasn't shown off when X/Y was released, but also remember that Smash 4 had a year and a half to span out information.

The only reason I ask is because the window between this Smash's official reveal and its December release is the shortest we've ever had. We typically don't have character reveals that line up with releases, but seeing how we have very little time to spread out these reveals anyway, I think showing a character close to the release of a new game would actually be a good marketing strategy. Not making the newcomer reveals and new releases go along with each other would just seem like a missed opportunity to me.

Yes to hurting chances for both characters, but not by too much

Inklings are mostly in a human form.

Does help that human life is extinct in Splatoon

 

[NintenZ]

I would say the general person at least knows who Simon and ESPECIALLY Frogger are, they’re both iconic characters who did revolutionary things in their own right, so honestly they make sense as the Konami character.

 

[Deleted member]

Textures aren't models...

You can UV map two different models and apply the same textures.

Must be from Ultimate then. Seems like the most logical conclusion. Ken's textures are completely different from Ryu's. If the trophy model truly is a re-purposed Ultimate model, it makes no sense that Ken has way less textures than Ryu and has skin textures lumped in with his gi textures unless they spent more time re-UV-ing him to use the SF4 textures.

 

[Pakky]

Must be from Ultimate then. Seems like the most logical conclusion.

Is there a rip of the trophy model available?

If so I can compare polycounts later when I have the time.

 

[Wyoming]

And why exactly is Ken more likely than Chun-Li?

Basically Ryu's Luigi and is the prime "echo" fighter considering he is the daddy of all clones.

Chun Li does have iconicness though.

 

[Roberk]

OMG just got to see the trailer!

YOU CAN RIDE ARCANINE!!!

It's great to see some awesomeness for one of my old favorites!!

Oh, right - Smash...uh...
Wouldn't it be cool to have Arcanine or Growlithe as a Pokéball?

Stop making me want to buy a watered down Kanto remake with PoGO mechanics Nintendo...

 

[Deleted member]

Is there a rip of the trophy model available?

If so I can compare polycounts later when I have the time.

There doesn't appear to be one available online, but I could send you one if you really want to take a look. I'll just have to convert it first. There's really no need though. Nothing about the way Ken is modeled or textured matches the way playable characters are.

 

[Pakky]

There doesn't appear to be one available online, but I could send you one if you really want to take a look. I'll just have to convert it first. There's really no need though. Nothing about the way Ken is modeled or textured matches any the way playable characters are.

Are his joints modeled fro rigging purposes?

 

[Deleted member]

Are his joints modeled fro rigging purposes?

If it's the Street Fighter IV model, wouldn't they be regardless? It's like how the Rayman trophy is rigged for playability because it was a model Ubisoft sent.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Real talk, I'm imagining with the possible exception of Geno, the game has no new 3rd parties in base game but the first DLC revealed is Simon Belmont.

It's just a feeling I have. I count all the returning characters as basically new so Snake is E3's big 3rd party reveal in and of himself.

 

[SonicMario]

I usually don't pay much attention to release dates and possible new characters to coincide with them, but I wanted to get an opinion from everyone on Captain Toad and Ashley.

So today, the Treasure Tracker ports were released. We got no new Smash content related to Toad or even Mario in general this week. Assuming we get nothing new next week either, would you consider this to hurt Captain Toad's chances? If the same thing were to happen with Ashley and WarioWare Gold in the beginning of August, would you consider it to hurt her chances too? Keep in mind Greninja wasn't shown off when X/Y was released, but also remember that Smash 4 had a year and a half to span out information.

The only reason I ask is because the window between this Smash's official reveal and its December release is the shortest we've ever had. We typically don't have character reveals that line up with releases, but seeing how we have very little time to spread out these reveals anyway, I think showing a character close to the release of a new game would actually be a good marketing strategy. Not making the newcomer reveals and new releases go along with each other would just seem like a missed opportunity to me.

This is assuming Smash Ultimate's reveals are going to go exactly like Smash 4's did. Which we have no proof yet that they will. If Ashley is revealed later this month or even in a potential August Direct then maybe we can depend more a little on releases. But they could just as easily reveal anything in directs and try as best they could to hide at least some newcomers for until the final week(/s) when the full roster reveals itself. Even if we don't get Captain Toad or Ashley this month or the next, that wouldn't stop them from potentially revealed later or even being a Smash 4 Bowser Jr.-esque surprise revealed in the full roster leak.

I'm not saying either Captain Toad or Ashley are certainties. As I admit as much as I'd like him to, I have some remaining doubts about him getting in. And even Ashley I'm not too sure about yet. But the speculation period for this game already feels so different and will be much shorter then Smash 4. So we really don't know what's going to happen next reveals wise other then probably at least at least one character in perhaps an August Direct and probably a Smash Direct in either October or November.

 

[Pakky]

If it's the Street Fighter IV model, wouldn't they be regardless? It's like how the Rayman trophy is rigged for playability because it was a model Ubisoft sent.

Ya'know what if that's the case I'm not sure whta they'll do.

Because Ryu looks like his SF4 version as well in game and if all you have to do is increase texture resolution then I'm not sure what was done.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Out of boredom I drew my interpretation of what these codename "leaked" characters are whether or not the leak is real:

"King" = King K. Rool
"Ponytail" = Dixie Kong
"Old Man" = Heihachi
"Archer" = Decidueye
"Warrior" = Simon Belmont
"Secretary" = Isabelle
"Mech" = Elma
"Folklore" = Rayman
"Rhythm" = Chorus Kids
"Doll" = Geno
"Prime Ribs" = Ninten
"Magic" = Ashley
"Spear" = Bandana Waddle Dee
"Fake" = Shadow the Hedgehog
"Soul" = Skull Kid
View attachment 152856

Nice!

And I’m aware I’m a tad late, I just got up, but I’m curious as to why you chose Rayman for “Folklore”.

 

[Deleted member]

And, ge was in about 25 games. And was a special costume in the new bomberman.

So was Simon, you know?

I'll give you that Goemon juuuust barely appears in more games than Simon (22) but Castlevania is a much more important franchise, it's the 4th best selling Konami franchise behind PES (1st) Metal Gear (2nd) and Pro Kyuaku (3rd) and since Pro Kyaku is basically Japan exclusive, Castlevania is internationally their 3rd most important franchise with 20 Million Sales.

Do not underestimate the power of Castlevania's western popularity, as he appeared alongside the likes of Mega Man and Link in Captain N (yes the cartoon sucks, but it helped Castlevania getting a foot among the masses, and you can see this because people have gotten exposure to the franchise and character, no different from the recent Netflix series outside of their quality) and while Legend of the Mystical Ninja was on the Japanese SNES Classic, it was replaced by Super Castlevania 4 in the west because that franchise is just much more well known outside of Japan, and if Takamaru's exclusion is any indication, that's kind of important, same goes for Ridley's Overseas popularity which was stated in E3.

You have also the fact that the now-defunct Nintendo's official magazine, Nintendo Power, heavily advertised Castlevania, up to the point that it was featured on the Cover of some issues, or the fact that the franchise helped to create the Metroidvania genre, and it inspired many games on the Indie scene (Bloodstained was the most successful gaming kickstarter before Shenmue 3 arrived)

Also i don't understand this "fitting in" argument, because a lot of times it's just subjective and even meaningless.

People say Snake doesn't fit in, he's in Smash anyway, people say Bay doesn't fit in, she in Smash anyway, some people say RIDELY out of all characters doesn't fit in because of his sadistic nature.........you get the point.

Hell i think Simon Belmont fits right in alongside humanoid characters like Link, Ryu, Marth and Cloud much better than Goemon. Yes Goemon is cartoony like Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man and Mega Man, but does that mean anything when your character is practically an unkown outside of Japan as opposed to Mr. Video Game, his Rival, Gaming's Grandpa and Capcom's 80's Icon? (granted, Mega Man isn't as well known or successful as these 3, but still leagues above Goemon)

Even if you pull the "Bayonetta is in Smash so this iconic arguement means nothing", it doesn't fly because Bayo has proper western releases unlike Goemon who has been MIA in the west since 98.

and no, Geno, who was considered by Sakurai doesn't work for Goemon either, because Geno comes from the MUCH more popular, MUCH more iconic, MUCH more internationally recognized Mario series, and by that virtue alone, it helps Geno a lot, even if he only appears in a single RPG Game.

Even if most Castlevania games would fell off the radar, the first NES is much, much more likely to be recognized among the gaming crowd (maybe even the elusive "casuals") than literally any Goemon game in existence, and i from what i hve seen, Sakurai's main priority is to inlcude all the most popular and requested characters from past and present, while these "lol surprise random" picks actually tend to be the exception to the norm.

Goemon doesn't even rank in the middle between heavily popular and obscure, he's in the bottom once you account for worldwide popularity, up to the point i don't even see him as an Assist Trophy.

and lastly, Sakurai outright stated that Castlevania had a big impact on him, and he mentions it in the same sentence as Zelda. That already says a lot.

 

[Wambo]

Interesting quote from the Smash Ultimate unveil:

"There are a variety of stages available in this game as well, including a massive list of returning stages."

I'm interpreting this as "there's still a ****-ton of new stages we haven't seen yet". What do you guys think?

 

[Cosmic77]

Interesting quote from the Smash Ultimate unveil:

"There are a variety of stages available in this game as well, including a massive list of returning stages."

I'm interpreting this as "there's still a ****-ton of new stages we haven't seen yet". What do you guys think?

I'm sure we're still getting a bunch of new stages, but I wouldn't bet on every franchise getting a new stage.

As much as I'd love to get five EarthBound stages, we're probably stopping at four. Can't complain though, because I wasn't expecting both Fourside and New Pork City to return anytime soon.

 

[osby]

The sequel. Just humans/human passing (so humanoid Pokemon and Furries don't count).

64: (50%)
Melee:(65%)
Brawl:(50%)
4:ultrosalina:(70%)
Ultimate So far:(66%)
Grand Total: 60% of characters are humanoid.

Some quick decisions I made -
Pokemon Trainer doesn't count because you play as the Pokemon. Felt weird to count them.
Miis are far from human. I also just didn't want to count them.
MegaMan is a robot yeah? Yeah.
Inklings are mostly in a human form.

Yeah so if you're just a furry I guess you can be dissapointed with Smash's mostly human roster.

This all proves nothing and just allowed me to do something else at work.

This is nice, thanks. I was looking for something like that.

 

[Staarih]

Assuming we get nothing new next week either, would you consider this to hurt Captain Toad's chances? If the same thing were to happen with Ashley and WarioWare Gold in the beginning of August, would you consider it to hurt her chances too?

This is assuming Smash Ultimate's reveals are going to go exactly like Smash 4's did.

I don't think any of the newcomers' reveals in Smash 4 were tied to game releases though, it was only with the veterans right? And even then it was pretty much game anniversaries etc. I feel like the closest one was probably Rosalina and SM3DW, unless I'm totally forgetting something obvious. While it indeed would be a good marketing move to reveal a character alongside a new game release, seeing as it really hasn't happened before, I'm thinking it not happening won't help nor hurt any character's chances. They'll probably just reveal whoever they see fit in a Direct or a random date.

 

[Wambo]

I'm sure we're still getting a bunch of new stages, but I wouldn't bet on every franchise getting a new stage.

As much as I'd love to get five EarthBound stages, we're probably stopping at four. Can't complain though, because I wasn't expecting both Fourside and New Pork City to return anytime soon.

Fourside was a HUGE, unexpected treat, not to mention Magicant. They essentially remade both stages from scratch.

I know I've said this multiple times before in the past, but I seriously can't wait until they fully unveil the new Gerudo Valley. I think it'll probably be the first time we see something from OoT in total HD.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't think any of the newcomers' reveals in Smash 4 were tied to game releases though, it was only with the veterans right? And even then it was pretty much game anniversaries etc. I feel like the closest one was probably Rosalina and SM3DW, unless I'm totally forgetting something obvious. While it indeed would be a good marketing move to reveal a character alongside a new game release, seeing as it really hasn't happened before, I'm thinking it not happening won't help nor hurt any character's chances. They'll probably just reveal whoever they see fit in a Direct or a random date.

Shulk was tied to the announcement of Xenoblade Chronicles 3D for New 3DS, iirc. Not a release per se, but the closest thing to it, I guess.