Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Welp, it's official, the next game should be about addressing stage variety beyond the first area of each game represented. On the bright side, at least Luigi's Mansion isn't a plains-type stage.

On the topic of Star Fox, it seems the reason it manages to stay relevant at all via the guest appearance in Starlink is because Reggie Fils-Aimé himself encouraged the start of the negotiations.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...r_foxs_inclusion_in_starlink_battle_for_atlas
Speaks a lot about the series' current state when not even the top honchos in Japan thought of doing this.

I added Bubsy into the IMDB page for Smash Ultimate. I expected some fools to fall for it, but I did not expect it to be covered in a Yotube video.
I don't mean to brag but this is an absolute ****ing legend.

You might want to get your flame shield ready though, just in case detractors somehow manage to track down the source.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The lack of gender specific pronouns for certain Pokemon is one of my biggest gripes with Smash, especially when they aren't used with Lucario and Mewtwo.

"Lucario can manipulate aura through its palms."
"Mewtwo's attacks are extremely powerful. A hit from its Shadow Ball can be devastating."

Both of these Pokemon have gruff masculine voices. Is there really a need to avoid using "he" and "him" when both of these guys are obviously intended to be male?

Ivysaur has a super masculine voice aswell, but most people seem to believe it's a female.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So Is decidueye the most likely new pokemon rep? cuz I think it'd be awesome.

Decidueye is not as likely as people claim it to be. It's not being pushed by Game Freak, and even if it was, it wouldn't exactly matter, since the Smash Ultimate roster was (presumably) finalized in late 2015; Sakurai refers to concept art to determine which Pokemon is the best one to implement.

 

[Deleted member]

You might want to get your flame shield ready though, just in case detractors somehow manage to track down the source.

What do you mean?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Ivysaur has a super masculine voice aswell, but most people seem to believe it's a female.

That was a Project M thing iirc.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What do you mean?

Well, you know, they might verbally lambast you for doing a fake leak (even if it is just a joke). You know how less reasonable some people can be on the net, sometimes.

 

[osby]

Ivysaur has a super masculine voice aswell, but most people seem to believe it's a female.

They are animals technically so having "masculine" voices in human standarts doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, you know, they might verbally lambast you for doing a fake leak (even if it is just a joke). You know how less reasonable some people can be on the net, sometimes.

I can deal with that. I'll bring my french fries.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The lack of gender specific pronouns for certain Pokemon is one of my biggest gripes with Smash, especially when they aren't used with Lucario and Mewtwo.

"Lucario can manipulate aura through its palms."
"Mewtwo's attacks are extremely powerful. A hit from its Shadow Ball can be devastating."

Both of these Pokemon have gruff masculine voices. Is there really a need to avoid using "he" and "him" when both of these guys are obviously intended to be male? I wonder how long it'll be before someone tries to point out Mewtwo is genderless.

It would be less of a problem if the playable Pokemon have gender differences.

By now, it should be clear that a Pikachu who has a heart-shaped tail is female; a trait that didn't exist before Brawl. However, it's the only playable Pokemon with gender differences, so you pretty much have to treat the other Pokemon with genders as if their gender is unknown.

And since Mewtwo is a genderless species, you pretty much have to use gender neutral words for it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Welp, it's official, the next game should be about addressing stage variety beyond the first area of each game represented. On the bright side, at least Luigi's Mansion isn't a plains-type stage.

I think the new stages are doing a pretty good job of diversity. Even though New Donk City is the poster child for Odyssey, it isn't the first area of the game. For Splatoon, I was expecting Urchin Underpass, but we ended up getting Moray Towers (a DLC stage) instead.

Great Plateau Tower is really the only stage so far that represents the first area of a game, and even then, it makes more sense than any other area from BotW.

Decidueye is not as likely as people claim it to be. It's not being pushed by Game Freak, and even if it was, it wouldn't exactly matter, since the Smash Ultimate roster was (presumably) finalized in late 2015; Sakurai refers to concept art to determine which Pokemon is the best one to implement.

Is there any Pokemon aside from Buzzwole who you think is likely? I've heard you give various reasons for why Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc are all unlikely to get in Smash. After those three, the only other reasonable choice is Incineroar.

 

[P.Kat]

It should probably be noted that Echo Fighters have to have the exact same attributes as the fighter they're mimicking. There's no way that Zeraora would end up with below average mobility if it was ever considered to be a playable contender.

Zeraora is basically tied with Lycanroc as my most wanted Gen 7 Pokémon. However I don't think Zeraora would be a good echo choice for Lucario for that very same reason you brought up, Lucario's below average mobility.

Even though in anime and movies he's extremely fast, agile, acrobatic, and highly mobile. I would trade most of the power and even range on Aura just so he gets a boost in movement, and attack speed (maybe even increase them through aura). It's hard being a Lucario player sometimes

 

[Pyra]

Both of these Pokemon have gruff masculine voices. Is there really a need to avoid using "he" and "him" when both of these guys are obviously intended to be male? I wonder how long it'll be before someone tries to point out Mewtwo is genderless.

...Knowing Mewtwo is genderless, why push for it to be referred to as a male?

About the Lucario thing, I get that.
In my head I always parsed it as "a Lucario", as in any general member of the species, but it's obviously referring to the specific one in Smash, so...

Edit: But yeah like what Mario & Sonic Guy said, there's no gender dimorphism among almost all of the playable Pokemon (besides Pikachu), so there's no way to be certain anyway, despite the voice. Could just one of the 12.5% of the Lucario population that is female... and has a deep voice

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is there any Pokemon aside from Buzzwole who you think is likely? I've heard you give various reasons for why Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc are all unlikely to get in Smash. After those three, the only other reasonable choice is Incineroar.

Of all the possible 7th generation contenders, Incineroar probably has the strongest odds. Outside of concept art references, it played a major role in the 2017 Pokemon movie, and is starting to become a recurring character in the Alola saga. It's pretty clear that Game Freak is giving Incineroar more attention than the other fully evolved 7th generation starters, which will become even more notable if Ash's Litten (it hasn't evolved into Torracat in the English dub yet) fully evolves into one.

And what helps Incineroar even further is its physical build, since its bipedal stature enables it to use any item, including the two-handed container items.

In the end though, it all comes down to what Sakurai thinks of Incineroar's concept art.

 

[P.Kat]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

You dare to talk smack about SpongeBob Ammy that way? How would you like Ammy to serve your Ivysaur to you? As a roasted vegetables, or a nicely sliced, slightly chilled salad? XD

 

[Danpal65]

You dare to talk smack about SpongeBob Ammy that way? How would you like Ammy to serve your Ivysaur to you? As a roasted vegetables, or a nicely sliced, slightly chilled salad? XD

A nicely sliced and slightly chilled salad would be too classy

 

[Cosmic77]

Of all the possible 7th generation contenders, Incineroar probably has the strongest odds. Outside of concept art references, it played a major role in the 2017 Pokemon movie, and is starting to become a recurring character in the Alola saga. It's pretty clear that Game Freak is giving Incineroar more attention than the other fully evolved 7th generation starters, which will become even more notable if Ash's Litten (it hasn't evolved into Torracat in the English dub yet) fully evolves into one.

And what helps Incineroar even further is its physical build, since its bipedal stature enables it to use any item, including the two-handed container items.

In the end though, it all comes down to what Sakurai thinks of Incineroar's concept art.

Looking at the points you listed, I can understand why you think Incineroar is the most likely Pokemon to get in Smash. I just find it odd that you think its the only one of the four frequently mentioned Pokemon who has a decent chance. It's unusual for someone to look at Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc and claim that all three are very unlikely.

 

[osby]

I think just like people used to predict Zoroark because of Lucario, some people are predicting Incineroar/Decidueye/Lycanroc because of Greninja.

For all we know, this time a different thing from concept art might be deciding factor.

 

[KMDP]

The thing about Pokémon this time is that it's not like Generation VI. Unlike that Generation, where there was a clear winner among the starters for "cool factor" and battle capability for Smash (Greninja), this time there are two Starters who are equally good for Smash Bros. and both cool in their own way (Decidueye and Incineroar). Mimikyu and Lycanroc are, well, a completely different matter.

 

[Pyra]

I added Bubsy into the IMDB page for Smash Ultimate. I expected some fools to fall for it, but I did not expect it to be covered in a Yotube video.
I don't mean to brag but this is an absolute ****ing legend.

Smashtubers really... reaaaally need something to talk about haha

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Looking at the points you listed, I can understand why you think Incineroar is the most likely Pokemon to get in Smash. I just find it odd that you think its the only one of the four frequently mentioned Pokemon who has a decent chance. It's unusual for someone to look at Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc and claim that all three are very unlikely.

I never really understood why people looked at Lycanroc and Mimikyu, and think that they have a chance of being playable. Whenever I look at them, they look more like Poke Ball Pokemon material, or in the case of Mimikyu, a Smash Run enemy.

In regards to Decidueye, for the most part, I feel that Rowlet should have higher priority, especially considering its stronger popularity level. It wouldn't exactly work as a playable character, but seeing Rowlet as a Poke Ball Pokemon would be good enough for it.

 

[Deleted member]

Smashtubers really... reaaaally need something to talk about haha

Or they're just desperate for ad revenue. :V

 

[Pyra]

Or they're just desperate for ad revenue. :V

Well, yeah, that's why they would need something to talk about haha.

 

[Wyoming]

Galaxy brain: Alolan Raichu is so small because it uses assets from a playable Raichu echo.

Thats right we are echoing items now!

 

[Pyra]

Galaxy brain: Alolan Raichu is so small because it uses assets from a playable Raichu echo.

Thats right we are echoing items now!

Golden Hammer -> Hammer
Beast Ball (lol) -> Master Ball -> Poke Ball
Red Shell (I miss you) -> Green Shell

And 14 different versions of the fan, pls sakurai

 

[Cosmic77]

I think just like people used to predict Zoroark because of Lucario, some people are predicting Incineroar/Decidueye/Lycanroc because of Greninja.

For all we know, this time a different thing from concept art might be deciding factor.

People always look at the previous additions when predicting who would get in Smash.


When Brawl was first announced, a lot of people predicted we'd get Deoxys because it was a popular Legendary Pokemon who had its own movie, just like Mewtwo.

When Smash 4 was first announced, people were predicting that we'd get "Kalos Pokemon Trainer".

When Smash 4 was first announced, people thought Zoroark would follow in Lucario's footsteps because of its movie.

With Smash Switch, a lot of people assumed Decidueye was the only reasonable choice because its moveset was far more unique than the other two starters, just like Greninja was supposedly the most unique out of the Kalos starters.


Aside from the anime always being a strong indicator of who would get in Smash, there's no consistency with who gets added.

The thing about Pokémon this time is that it's not like Generation VI. Unlike that Generation, where there was a clear winner among the starters for "cool factor" and battle capability for Smash (Greninja), this time there are two Starters who are equally good for Smash Bros. and both cool in their own way (Decidueye and Incineroar). Mimikyu and Lycanroc are, well, a completely different matter.

Not even in Gen VI was there an obvious choice. Practically no one was expecting Greninja, and I saw very few people predict it would get in Smash. The only way you would've thought it had a high chance of getting in was if you were specifically comparing starter Pokemon to each other without using the Trainer gimmick, and that's something not many people did.

 

[Jetsurge]

The lack of gender specific pronouns for certain Pokemon is one of my biggest gripes with Smash, especially when they aren't used with Lucario and Mewtwo.

"Lucario can manipulate aura through its palms."
"Mewtwo's attacks are extremely powerful. A hit from its Shadow Ball can be devastating."

Both of these Pokemon have gruff masculine voices. Is there really a need to avoid using "he" and "him" when both of these guys are obviously intended to be male? I wonder how long it'll be before someone tries to point out Mewtwo is genderless.

The Mewtwo in the first movie which Smash's one is based on is male. The Mewtwo in the Genesect movie is female.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Mewtwo in the first movie which Smash's one is based on is male. The Mewtwo in the Genesect movie is a girl.

Mewtwo will always be genderless, no matter how masculine or feminine it may sound.

 

[Pyra]

The Mewtwo in the first movie which Smash's one is based on is male. The Mewtwo in the Genesect movie is female.

Having a male or female voice =/= being male or female, though

 

[P.Kat]

I did a truly random snap (thanks to an online randomizer), and these 34 survived.




Meaning these 34 were wiped out...


ultcorrin:

Now, it is perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
And now, to watch the sun rise on a grateful thread.​

M-my mains all of them, S-sheik? Lucina? Corrin? Lucario? Palutena?
Pit: Kat? I don't feel so good...
P.Kat: Pit! Are you alright? Tell me you're alright.
Pit: I don't know, I don't know what's happening... I don't... I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go... Kat, please... Please. I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. I'm sorry. (disappears into non-existence)
*falls to my knee screaming at the sky* Nooooooooo.

All this talk about Shulk and Thanos made me whip up this old meme:
View attachment 152543

Serious talk though, which Nintendo characters do you think could either defeat, or put up an actual fight against Thanos? Obviously the power of the Monado rivals, if not exceeds the power of the Infinity Gauntlet, and therefore Shulk could outmatch Thanos, but who else could do actually do it?

Lucario considering it can form physical constructs out of Aura, Pit, Palutena, Rosalina, Kirby when he cares.

...Knowing Mewtwo is genderless, why push for it to be referred to as a male?

About the Lucario thing, I get that.
In my head I always parsed it as "a Lucario", as in any general member of the species, but it's obviously referring to the specific one in Smash, so...

Edit: But yeah like what Mario & Sonic Guy said, there's no gender dimorphism among almost all of the playable Pokemon (besides Pikachu), so there's no way to be certain anyway, despite the voice. Could just one of the 12.5% of the Lucario population that is female... and has a deep voice

In the similar way Sakurai added female Pikachu and Pokémon Trainer, he could add different vocal options for the Pokémon like he did with the Mii Fighters.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Perfectly balanced. As all things should be.

ultvillager:​

C-Cloud...?

SNAAAAAAAKE!!!

;____;

Also:

- Ness, I don’t feel so good...

;-;

 

[drag0nscythe]

...Knowing Mewtwo is genderless, why push for it to be referred to as a male?

About the Lucario thing, I get that.
In my head I always parsed it as "a Lucario", as in any general member of the species, but it's obviously referring to the specific one in Smash, so...

Edit: But yeah like what Mario & Sonic Guy said, there's no gender dimorphism among almost all of the playable Pokemon (besides Pikachu), so there's no way to be certain anyway, despite the voice. Could just one of the 12.5% of the Lucario population that is female... and has a deep voice

I see you are also a goemon man. Good on you.

 

[KMDP]

Not even in Gen VI was there an obvious choice. Practically no one was expecting Greninja, and I saw very few people predict it would get in Smash. The only way you would've thought it had a high chance of getting in was if you were specifically comparing starter Pokemon to each other without using the Trainer gimmick, and that's something not many people did.

Well, in the context of back then, yeah. XD You know what they say, the more the merrior! Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Pyra]

In the similar way Sakurai added female Pikachu and Pokémon Trainer, he could add different vocal options for the Pokémon like he did with the Mii Fighters.

I mean... I have no reason to believe a female Lucario would sound any different, though the anime would probably do something to that effect... maybe.
As far as I care though the issue could be fixed by making all of the Pokemon but Jiggly and Pikachu use their game screeches.
(I know I'm probably in the minority on that one, don't have to tell me why that's bad.)

I see you are also a goemon man. Good on you.

I will always support the character that took me through my childhood.

 

[Deleted member]

Ivysaur has a super masculine voice aswell, but most people seem to believe it's a female.

That was a Project M thing iirc.

It started in the Japanese version of Brawl, where Ivysaur's voice is very feminine sounding. Project M used female pronouns for Ivysaur on their site, which helped "Ivysaur is female" spread.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not even in Gen VI was there an obvious choice. Practically no one was expecting Greninja, and I saw very few people predict it would get in Smash. The only way you would've thought it had a high chance of getting in was if you were specifically comparing starter Pokemon to each other without using Trainer gimmick, and that's something not many people did.

Mewtwo was the "obvious choice" since he was the poster boy of X and Y with two Mega Evolutions (since Mega Evolution was the big deal in X and Y), a major role in the 2013 Pokemon movie Genesect and the Legend Awakened as well as a major role in Pokemon Origins. And thus he was the true "hot Pokemon." No other Pokemon was as promoted as he was during 2013, especially not Greninja, so most people around here expected Mewtwo as the Gen 6 "rep" with all the Brawl Pokemon returning.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

.....oh.

best timeline.

 

[Deleted member]

I typically use male pronouns for Ivysaur since all of the Venusaurs I've used were male.
(Yes I'm team Venusaur don't @ me)

 

[JayJay55]

I thought Ivysaur was called by feminine pronouns because it has a yellow palp within the flower on its back?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It started in the Japanese version of Brawl, where Ivysaur's voice is very feminine sounding. Project M used female pronouns for Ivysaur on their site, which helped "Ivysaur is female" spread.

Ironically, it's Venusaur who has the gender differences; females have a seed sticking out of their large flower.

 

[Pyra]

I typically use male pronouns for Ivysaur since all of the Venusaurs I've used were male.
(Yes I'm team Venusaur don't @ me)

I have honestly just used my Pokemon's nicknames every time I referred to them.
All of them are also "this dude" when I don't use their name.

I am a simple man.