Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

But why Lucario? They have next to no similarities outside of being feline-esque and Pokemon

You answered your own question.
Echoes don't exactly adhere to lore, just what's convenient and will please fans who just want technical playability.

 

[Honest Slug]

Now that the standards for the template have lowered I'll do the laziest one yet.

Main: Probably Inkling
Secondaries:Mario, Marth, Mewtwo, Wolf and Ridley
Most wanted: King K Rool, Paper Mario and Geno
Least wanted: Minecraft Steve, Goku, any non-video game character, any non-echo Fire Emblem character

 

[SquashiniKun]

Hey um, anybody got some new leaks?

 

[Radical Bones]

Here's my wishlisty thing:

Spoiler

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Aside from being an upright cat/jackal their body types are pretty dissimilar. Zeraora hunches over a lot more and has a very different build for its arms, legs body and head that's make rigging it with Lucario's animations pretty much impossible.

The idea of relevance is something that I think a lot of people overemphasise as a factor for a chapters inclusion, especially for a character who was revealed in 2018 for a game who's project plan would've been drawn up in early 2016 at the latest

To add to this, because Smash Ultimate's roster was supposedly finalized in 2015, I seriously doubt that Zeraora would be implemented into the base game, unless it's planned to be a Poke Ball Pokemon.

Well, yeah, that's why I'm saying he should be an Echo, BECAUSE of how new he is. If he's DLC, I'd imagine they'd make him a semi-clone of Lucario ala Wolf

That's not the way that fighters are categorized as Echo Fighters. In order to be an Echo Fighter, you (supposedly) have to...

1. Originate from the same franchise as the fighter you're mimicking.
2. The moveset has to be (almost) exactly alike, which even includes special moves. Final Smashes don't have to be alike though.
3. Fighter attributes have to be exactly the same.

Zeraora automatically fails #2, as it doesn't even come close to copying Lucario's moveset; it obviously can't use Aura.

 

[Zinith]

Hey, I only did the template text only because I'm at work and it will be way too late by the time I get home. Don't be doing what I do!!!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

But why Lucario? They have next to no similarities outside of being feline-esque and Pokemon

I think Zeraora getting in as a Lucario Echo isn't possible, because he wouldn't be possible as a natural alt-costume, of which is a requirement as Echoes are glorified alts instead of just clones. However if you were to try forcing Zeraora in as an Echo, Lucario would be the best option, since the other pokemon are even farther apart and the Star Fox characters are too humanoid in build. and who else would be the slightest bit viable?

 

[Idon]

Hey um, anybody got some new leaks?

I have this one.

 

[Will]

Least wanted: any non-echo Fire Emblem character

Today must be opposite day, because I've never heard a single soul advocate for four Marths ever.

 

[Honest Slug]

Today must be opposite day, because I've never heard a single soul advocate for four Marths ever.

I was thinking of the Chrom and Celcia echoes echo ideas for Ike and Robin respectively. Marth would be a bit much.

I wouldn't mind a Fire Emblem echo too much since it doesn't take development time from anybody.

 

[Danpal65]

Today must be opposite day, because I've never heard a single soul advocate for four Marths ever.

You're missing out then. The real high-tier Fire Emblem pick is an echo of Lucina

 

[Slavic]

I had plenty of time to think about this at work, and I've apparently fully given in to my bias

oh well

Spoiler: Smash Template

You're missing out then. The real high-tier Fire Emblem pick is an echo of Lucina

Obviously what we need is an Echo of Lucina who has a tipper effect on their sword

 

[Noipoi]

I had a template but I couldn't upload it, so I shall continue the text template tradition!

Main:
Secondary:
Most Wanted: Ashley, Rayman, Ashley, Amaterasu, K Rool, Ashley, Geno, Ashley, Ashley, ASHLEY.
Least Wanted: Rabbid, Steve.

Really excited to try tons of characters! And i'm sure you can tell who I want the most.
Tingle ASHLEY!

 

[Danpal65]

I had plenty of time to think about this at work, and I've apparently fully given in to my bias

oh well

Spoiler: Smash Template

Obviously what we need is an Echo of Lucina who has a tipper effect on their sword

Bias? Where? This seems like a total feasible template. Just and Rex and Pyra and you're good to go

 

[Zinith]

I had plenty of time to think about this at work, and I've apparently fully given in to my bias

oh well

Spoiler: Smash Template

Obviously what we need is an Echo of Lucina who has a tipper effect on their sword

All your most wanted picks are from Xeno games, and yet you don't main or even second Shulk...

:thinking:

 

[Idon]

Man wouldn't it be cool if we had an echo of Lucina that required more skill? Like, imagine if they rewarded the player for spacing their attacks to the tip of Lucina's blade and had less reward for hitting with the hilt of the blade. Maybe make them a boy but still make them feminine. Call em Mars or something.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Tomorrow's preview: (God I'm bad at timing lately)

Mei Ling: I'm definitely not the person you should be talking to about time travel...

Next up:

 

[Will]

I was thinking of the Chrom and Celcia echoes echo ideas for Ike and Robin respectively. Marth would be a bit much.

I wouldn't mind a Fire Emblem echo too much since it doesn't take development time from anybody.

Having Echoes take up priority in a character selection is pretty weird, IMO. I'd rather have unique people like Micaiah, Ephraim, Hector, Tiki, Caeda, list goes on. I can't see how having more clones instead of unique characters can be a good alternative when they're usually the last to be considered in the game.

 

[UltimateWario]

I had plenty of time to think about this at work, and I've apparently fully given in to my bias

oh well

Spoiler: Smash Template

>Xenosaga character
>Xenoblade character
>Xenomorph secondary
Hmmm

 

[Jetsurge]

There was a Pokemon conversation last night? Aww man. Can't believe I missed it. Those have been pretty scarce lately. Nice to get back to some of the done to death pre-E3 conversations every once in a while.

Well, in an attempt to rekindle the topic, which of the three big contenders - Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc (purposely leaving out Incineroar because not much has changed for him) - do you think took the biggest hit after the info we got following E3?

Decidueye - Ivysaur returned and it might have been too early for Sakurai to know about its involvement with Pokken.
Mimikyu - Pichu returned and popularity likely wouldn't have been a factor.
Lycanroc - Might have been too early for Sakurai to know about the Dusk form.

For me, I'd say Decidueye. Not so much because it would no longer be the only grass type, but because I noticed a lot of people switching over to say Incineroar is the most likely. Feels like people are looking more toward the anime and timing when they consider a Pokemon's chances.

I still think Mimikyu is the most likely because he's been pushed the most by the Pokemon company.

Also I don't think the Dusk form being late would affect Lycanroc's chances since if he was in they probably would've started off with the day form which is very similar to the Dusk Lycanroc except for the colour, hair, minor stat changes and ability(which is never factored into smash). They could've easily replaced the day form with dusk form without really changing anything.

 

[Slavic]

All your most wanted picks are from Xeno games, and yet you don't main or even second Shulk...

:thinking:

One of the saddest parts of Smash For for me was how Shulk didn't resonate me in gameplay, because there was no character I advocated more during speculation than Shulk, and with XC1 being my favorite game

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Zeraora automatically fails #2, as it doesn't even come close to copying Lucario's moveset; it obviously can't use Aura.

Zeraora wouldn't be feasible as an Echo for Lucario, but not for the reason you state; being able to canonically use a character's moves or not doesn't matter, Lucina doesn't fight like Marth and Daisy isn't able to float nor has Toads serving her, what makes canonical sense is secondary. What matters is if the character's model can mechanically share a character's skeleton and do all their moves/animations without technical issues. Now this is where a Zeraora Echo would fail, not that you couldn't slap on the Aura gimmick to him or just couldn't change the Aura attacks from having Aura hitboxes to electrical hitboxes and make him an electrical Lucario that has no Aura gimmick.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Here's my wishlisty thing:

Spoiler

View attachment 152514

Oh wow, we actually have creepily similar lists all-around!

 

[Zinith]

One of the saddest parts of Smash For for me was how Shulk didn't resonate me in gameplay, because there was no character I advocated more during speculation than Shulk, and with XC1 being my favorite game

Well at least Shulk has a player in me (he's my secondary)...

 

[SpiralGalaxies]

regarding pokemon chat, I think that mimikyu is still the most relevant in popularity, but I wonder what moveset it would have.

 

[Honest Slug]

Having Echoes take up priority in a character selection is pretty weird, IMO. I'd rather have unique people like Micaiah, Ephraim, Hector, Tiki, Caeda, list goes on. I can't see how having more clones instead of unique characters can be a good alternative when they're usually the last to be considered in the game.

I still want more unique characters tho, I'd rather those unique characters be ones that I want more, which is why I don't want a non-echo Fire Emblem character. In general I don't care about echoes so I'm mostly ok with whoever gets in as one.

 

[Takasmash]

Mains
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina
I Know Im Cheating Dont Care

Secondary
Young Link
Zelda
Lucina
Cloud

Most Wanted Newcomers
Rayman
Geno
Elma
Incineroar
K Rool and Dixie Kong
Ashley
Ninten
Chrom

Least Wanted
Medusa
Chorus Kids
Mach Rider
Lip
Sora
Hilda

 

[Noipoi]

Mains
Peach
Daisy
Rosalina
I Know Im Cheating Dont Care

Secondary
Young Link
Zelda
Lucina
Cloud

Most Wanted Newcomers
Rayman
Geno
Elma
Incineroar
K Rool and Dixie Kong

Least Wanted
Ashley
Chorus Kids
Mach Rider
Lip
Hilda

Least Wanted
Ashley

Explain yourself.

I'm not really mad i'm just curious chill out

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Now I can communicate my cultured weird taste in characters by simply posting an image!

Spoiler: Template

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

K Rool and Dixie Kong

When I read this, I thought you meant K Rool and Dixie Kong as a team and I was like BOI WUT?

 

[Idon]

One of the saddest parts of Smash For for me was how Shulk didn't resonate me in gameplay, because there was no character I advocated more during speculation than Shulk, and with XC1 being my favorite game

I feel the exact same way.
I had two main problems.
1. He doesn't have his weapon out and that quirk looks stupid on top of giving him terrible frame data.
2. His entire repertoire of flashy and cool looking Monado Arts has been relegated to made-up buff/debuffs.

 

[Will]

Least Wanted
Ashley

Explain yourself.

I'm not really mad i'm just curious chill out

Hating popular things is cool.

His entire repertoire of flashy and cool looking Monado Arts has been relegated to made-up buff/debuffs.

Don't remind me. You're giving me flashbacks of Shulk stealing War Swing from Reyn.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

 

[Noipoi]

Hating popular things is cool.]


Ah, I see you practice the ancient ninja art, Hipster No Jutsu

 

[Chandeelure]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

How dare you.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I also suck at photoshop:

Main:
Robin

Secondary:
Zelda
Lucina
Daisy (Before I'd say Peach, but I want that sweet, sweet inevitable "Hi! I'm Daisy!" taunt)
Lemmy (Best Koopaling)

Most Wanted:
Impa
King K Rool
Banjo-Kazooie
Dixie Kong
Bandanna Dee
Rayman
Chrom
Ashley

Least Wanted:
Rex & Pyra
Shadow

 

[RandomAce]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

My favorite character is EVERYONE!

Now you must hate everyone! Even Ivysaur.

 

[Deleted member]

Hating popular things is cool.

Noipoi you'd know that, right?
not trying to start a fight i just want to make this a running gag

 

[Noipoi]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

Oh yeah? Well!..
Well...uh...
Your Mom!

 

[Will]

My least wanted character is your favorite.

Yes you.

You reading this post.

Your favorite character? It's dumb. I hate it.

Then why you maining him?