Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Read those leaks and laughed. However I am 90% sure we are getting Chrom and Shadow as echo fighters.

Dude. You can not predict Sakurai and his team that easily. Especially making a number of percent to what your fighter will be like.
It is like predicting the future almost. Not really easy and unnecessary to do.

I mentioned earlier that western Japan (with Kyoto I.e Nintendo HQ included) was hit with extremely heavy rain at unprecedented levels. Numerous prefectures from Fukuoka to Kyoto have been heavily affected by flooding and landslides in just under 24 hours. Thankfully, my in-laws are ok as they were on the southern edges and only got a little rain. But many people have lost their homes and even towns have been wiped off the map. To date, there has been 77 dead and 60 some unknown with over 100 injuries. I watched an interview with a man who didn’t know what happened to his wife and sons as he was not home. They discovered his wife’s body during the interview. It’s just so sad. I know it’s pretty off-topic but considering that Smash is a Japanese game and we have Japanese game designers to thank for it - I thought it was worth noting.

If you feel the need to, there are various outlets you can donate to such as the Japanese Res Cross or Binance. I’ve been doing some searching online for programs available for overseas.

I hope you are safe!

 

[WaxPython]

"so what? Sakurai is not required to introduce more than just Daisy to 'legitimize the concept'."

I disagree, it's in plural I believe so it's more than one and if he doesn't it would be pointless. I expect echo fighters to be a substantial part of the game. Meta Ridley looked like one too even though everyone thinks it's a costume it wasn't in the demo.

 

[KMDP]

I was saying there is no animation difference between Daisy and Peach's moves currently. Well so far as we can tell we need more footage.

But people always reference that she doesn't look away in her neutral B but she does. They are thinking of footage of her throws which so far look the same as Peach as well. So far their animations looks the same.

In Daisy's throw animation, she makes the 'motion' of looking away, but she's actually got her eyes open and she's looking at Toad.
In Peach's counter, Peach looks away and shuts her eyes when Toad counterattacks.

If both of Peach's moves (forward throw and counter) use the same animation (and therefore Daisy's version of those moves would use the same animation for her as well), this is a cosmetic animation difference, which is what I was arguing.
Am I right in this notion?

 

[Deleted member]

Dude. You can not predict Sakurai and his team that easily. Especially making a number of percent to what your fighter will be like.
It is like predicting the future almost. Not really easy and unnecessary to do.

You do know that's basically 90% of what everyone in this thread is talking about, right?

 

[Deleted member]

You do know that's basically 90% of what everyone in this thread is talking about, right?

Let me explain.

You can say "Bandanna Dee and King K. Rool" are likely, but it is strange to say "We have a 63% chance for Sakraui to give us Bandanna Dee and King K. Rool.".

 

[KMDP]

"so what? Sakurai is not required to introduce more than just Daisy to 'legitimize the concept'."

I disagree, it's in plural I believe so it's more than one and if he doesn't it would be pointless. I expect echo fighters to be a substantial part of the game. Meta Ridley looked like one too even though everyone thinks it's a costume it wasn't in the demo.

"It would be pointless if he didn't add more"
That's your opinion. He could have referred to them in the plural because more might be made next game; additionally, if there's only two new ones (Daisy and one other), he'd still refer to them in the plural.

Also people would kick off if Echo Fighters were a substantial part of the game, Sakurai knows this.

 

[WaxPython]

"It would be pointless if he didn't add more"
That's your opinion. He could have referred to them in plural because more might be made next game; additionally, if there's only two new ones, he'd still refer to them in the plural.

Also people would kick off if Echo Fighters were a substantial part of the game, Sakurai knows this.

Not really, he had 0 problem with all the clones in melee and brawl and adding in Lucina for smash 4 as well as Dark pit.

I see us getting more echo fighters than new fighters this time around and I'm okay with this. People will buy the game anyway so better dedicate resources to DLC for new fighters and have a blast putting in fan favourites as echo fighters.

Devs wouldn't go to the trouble of introducing a concept and only adding one or two fighters in it. I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain I get Sakurai's logic behind this

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

In Daisy's throw animation, she makes the 'motion' of looking away, but she's actually got her eyes open and she's looking at Toad.
In Peach's counter, Peach looks away and shuts her eyes when Toad counterattacks.

If both of Peach's moves (forward throw and counter) use the same animation (and therefore Daisy's version of those moves would use the same animation for her as well), this is a cosmetic animation difference, which is what I was arguing.
Am I right in this notion?

Ok so not talking about throws, are you just reffering to the difference of Daisy having her eyes open and Peach not?

Then yes I would call that a cosmetic difference. Sorry I was reffering to people who would mix up Daisy's throw animation with her counter and say that she wouldn't even "duck and cover" like peach does. Because at the end of the day the cosmetic change of a facial expression is very small and not really a good way to argue that characters will have big animation differences in their moves (which not saying you were).

 

[Dandelionel]

"so what? Sakurai is not required to introduce more than just Daisy to 'legitimize the concept'."

I disagree, it's in plural I believe so it's more than one and if he doesn't it would be pointless. I expect echo fighters to be a substantial part of the game. Meta Ridley looked like one too even though everyone thinks it's a costume it wasn't in the demo.

I mean we already have 3 echo fighters, not one. Also l really doubt they will add echoes for the sake of it, they will add popular characters that cannot make the cut as unique like Daisy.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Dark Samus definitely has unique abilities that Samus doesn’t. The problem with DS being an echo is that it can't use most of the equipment that Samus uses in her specials (Morph Ball, Screw Attack, the flamethrower, missiles, grappling hook, etc), Dark Samus uses unique Phazon powers like the ones present in its assist trophy. It can also use Phazon Pillar, Phazon Boost, Dark Echo and it can manipulate Phazon energy at will.

Watch this:

Shadow and Dark Samus are characters who should not be echos but you know they probably would be.

Dark Samus can use Morph Ball and Missiles, she uses them in Prime 2, and anything else can be excused by slapping a Phazon tint on the move and just saying she can use it because she's a literal copy of Samus' suit, after all she did inherit its powers. I think with Dark Samus it's easy to accept if she's an echo, because it's her only realistic shot at making it in at all, it's either that or nothing. She's got potential to be much more, but her lack of relevancy, a future in general, and her many similarities to Samus means she'll never be chosen to be a completely unique fighter, and probably not even a semi clone.

Shadow I can see why people would be disappointed if he's only an echo though, it completely ignores his trademark power and forces a moveset onto him that doesn't even necessarily fit with his character, he should at the very worst be a semi clone, like Dixie.

 

[osby]

I mean we already have 3 echo fighters, not one. Also l really doubt they will add echoes for the sake of it, they will add popular characters that cannot make the cut as unique like Daisy.

This.

Also, this is not Melee. I can see Sakurai adding a few echoes to make up for the lack of unique newcomers but we already have them. At least the ones we'll get (if we get more) almost definitely will be more requested characters than Dr. Mario or Pichu.

 

[KMDP]

Ok so not talking about throws, are you just reffering to the difference of Daisy having her eyes open and Peach not?

Then yes I would call that a cosmetic difference. Sorry I was reffering to people who would mix up Daisy's throw animation with her counter and say that she wouldn't even "duck and cover" like peach does. Because at the end of the day the cosmetic change of a facial expression is very small and not really a good way to argue that characters will have big animation differences in their moves (which not saying you were).

Yes, that's what I was arguing. Glad we cleared that up.

It's a cosmetic change that better shows Daisy's personality.

Not really, he had 0 problem with all the clones in melee and brawl and adding in Lucina for smash 4 as well as Dark pit.

I see us getting more echo fighters than new fighters this time around and I'm okay with this. People will buy the game anyway so better dedicate resources to DLC for new fighters and have a blast putting in fan favourites as echo fighters.

Devs wouldn't go to the trouble of introducing a concept and only adding one or two fighters in it. I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain I get Sakurai's logic behind this

Melee's and Brawl's clones were more different to their bases than the Echo Fighters are.

"People will buy the game anyway" is a terrible way to look at a game, and a belief that we know Sakurai doesn't hold to. He values quality over quantity.

You can't just put 50 characters in and call it a good game.

He'll work himself half to death to make a game the best it can be. Melee's clones were a victim of circumstance, it had a much shorter development cycle and a far, far smaller team; and guess what, people took issue with them back then.

 

[92MilesPrower]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

I always go with the standard.
Boney is a good dog, and the green color of the shirt featuring him is really nice.
I've always loved the color of shiny Greninja, so I use the black palette.
Can't go wrong with the classic.

Other characters that I like to use:
Blue is my favorite color, so I use the blue skins on them. (Dark Blue for Luigi)
I've always been a fan of classic green camo, always used that skin on Snake in Brawl.
I really like the classic Link costume (dark green with brown sleeves) in Smash 4, it's a really nice color imo.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Also people would kick off if Echo Fighters were a substantial part of the game, Sakurai knows this.

People are gonna get mad either way tbh

I've seen how this fanbase works.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't think the concept of echo characters is something that was necessarily drawn up during the concept phase, it's not like they made it up and then started researching which characters would fit it, I think it's more likely that they added clones late in development, like they always do, and then because of the amount of 1-to-1 clones that were now present in the game they coined a term for them so everyone would be more accepting of them and see that they're not "stealing someone else's spot" (which has worked).

I fully expect at least one more echo fighter to be in the game, just to add a bit of fluff to what is likely to be a smaller pool of unique newcomers than usual, and maybe a semi clone on top of that.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

I like his standard and purple outfits.
I always use the ribbon one.
I use the standard one, I actually don't like the black one tbh.
Standard, green, and black.
Japanese colors.
Black or white.
Standard.
Standard.
( Probably standard.)

 

[KMDP]

People are gonna get mad either way tbh

I've seen how this fanbase works.

Well, yes, that's true.

It's human nature, people like having something to complain about.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I don't think the concept of echo characters is something that was necessarily drawn up during the concept phase, it's not like they made it up and then started researching which characters would fit it, I think it's more likely that they added clones late in development, like they always do, and then because of the amount of 1-to-1 clones that were now present in the game they coined a term for them so everyone would be more accepting of them and see that they're not "stealing someone else's spot" (which has worked).

I fully expect at least one more echo fighter to be in the game, just to add a bit of fluff to what is likely to be a smaller pool of unique newcomers than usual, and maybe a semi clone on top of that.

I agree. Sakurai has stated that clones were always added at the end of the game, and just giving it a fancy name isn't going to change that. Besides, the only reason we got Daisy so early is because Sakurai wanted to give us an example of on echo fighter.

 

[WaxPython]

I don't think the concept of echo characters is something that was necessarily drawn up during the concept phase, it's not like they made it up and then started researching which characters would fit it, I think it's more likely that they added clones late in development, like they always do, and then because of the amount of 1-to-1 clones that were now present in the game they coined a term for them so everyone would be more accepting of them and see that they're not "stealing someone else's spot" (which has worked).

I fully expect at least one more echo fighter to be in the game, just to add a bit of fluff to what is likely to be a smaller pool of unique newcomers than usual, and maybe a semi clone on top of that.

Yeah my sentiments exactly Dixie King will be the semi clone if anyone

 

[KMDP]

I can see a pool of brand new characters (e.g. K. Rool, Ashley, Decidueye/Incineroar, Isaac, Tails, Geno), then a smaller pool of Semi-Clones (e.g. Dixie, Impa, Shadow), then an even smaller pool of Echoes (e.g. Ken).

Really, that's what I'd expect.

Like: ~9 Full Characters, 4 Semi-Clones and 2 Echoes (incl. Inkling, Ridley and Daisy).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I can see a pool of brand new characters (e.g. K. Rool, Ashley, Decidueye/Incineroar, Isaac, Tails, Geno), then a smaller pool of Semi-Clones (e.g. Dixie, Impa, Shadow), then an even smaller pool of Echoes (e.g. Ken).

Really, that's what I'd expect.

Like: ~9 Full Characters, 4 Semi-Clones and 2 Echoes (incl. Inkling, Ridley and Daisy).

I just see more Pit echoes

 

[KMDP]

I just see more Pit echoes

Pit! Dark Pit! Light Pit! Baby Pit! Metal Pit! Gold Pit! Cat Pit! Tanuki Pit! Super Pit!

King Pitpitpit!
Zero Suit Pit!
Pitmin & Pit!
Pit! Junior!
Captain Pit!
Dark Pit Duo!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Zero Suit Wah is the only echo i want.

 

[Deleted member]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

: The Meta Ridley alt.
: The Black and gold one.
: The female with the shiny Squirtle.
: The one with the black outfit.
: The Chrom one. For sure.
: The light one with the glowing aqua rings.
: The blue one with the very blue tail.
: Either the black Snake or the leopard one. I can not decide.

 

[KMDP]

Considering how many of Snake's alts pull from MGS3, something I'd like to see is Big Boss' Sneaking Suit, if they're going over 8 alts.

"Pliskin", "Old Snake" & "The Octo Camo (w/ Mask)" would also be nice.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

- Standard costume at least 99% of the time. Otherwise, the black / yellow combination or purple. Purple looked a lot better in Brawl by the way.
- Original or sometimes Super Kong (white)
- Standard, Greil or the Black Knight.
- Original or the Dark Lugia colors
- Standard or purple

I basically only use the original / standard outfits.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Captain Pit!

I love this one since Pit is the captain of Palutena's Guards so, that makes total sense. I imagine him as a pirate too. "Arrgh, Captain Pit of the swirling seas and space!"

Speaking of that, I'd like to see Pit in a pirate costume as one of his alt. costumes.

 

[UGXwolf]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

Back in Brawl, I always used the black alt (3rd color?) but I recently revisited and kinda like the Japan alt (white/red, 6th color) Guess we'll see when the game comes out.
Used FD in Sm4sh so it's a prime contender, this time, but he does appear to have his Switch shirt, which I would don with pride.
Partial to "old man-ondorf" (7th alt), but I think in this game I may opt for the green alt.
Red dress all the way (6th alt)
Green chest floof for days
Red wrist bands
Default
Nature 'Ike (green alt)
Partial to the Fiora alt (blue, 2nd)
Purple Yoshi is the best (7th alt)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Glad people just realized dark Samus couldn't be a echo due to attacks

So dark Samus would be more of a semi-clone than a clone

However either way dark Samus is still possible since no assist trophy spotted so far and that the dark Samus pallette was removed from samus

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Pit! Dark Pit! Light Pit! Baby Pit! Metal Pit! Gold Pit! Cat Pit! Tanuki Pit! Super Pit!

King Pitpitpit!
Zero Suit Pit!
Pitmin & Pit!
Pit! Junior!
Captain Pit!
Dark Pit Duo!

Pit-Man
Pittalina and Luma
Pitley
Solid Pit
Dr. Pit
Lady Pit
WaPit

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

Glad people just realized dark Samus couldn't be a echo due to attacks

So dark Samus would be more of a semi-clone than a clone

I could replace "Samus" with "Pit" and make the exact same argument. Just because a character can be unique does not mean they will be. Doesn't matter if Dark Samus isn't shown to use the exact same moves as Samus in Metroid Prime, it only matters that she theoretically could.

 

[Zeox]

I could replace "Samus" with "Pit" and make the exact same argument. Just because a character can be unique does not mean they will be. Doesn't matter if Dark Samus isn't shown to use the exact same moves as Samus in Metroid Prime, it only matters that she theoretically could.

But Pit cannot be a semi-clone of Samus.

 

[Deleted member]

Considering how many of Snake's alts pull from MGS3, something I'd like to see is Big Boss' Sneaking Suit, if they're going over 8 alts.

"Pliskin", "Old Snake" & "The Octo Camo (w/ Mask)" would also be nice.

Tuxedo Snake would be amazing too.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

But Pit cannot be a semi-clone of Samus.

Touché

 

[Murlough]

I could replace "Samus" with "Pit" and make the exact same argument. Just because a character can be unique does not mean they will be. Doesn't matter if Dark Samus isn't shown to use the exact same moves as Samus in Metroid Prime, it only matters that she theoretically could.

Lets not forget Sonic and Shadow. If people can make an argument that Dark Samus *can't* be a echo of Samus then they can't turn around and say Shadow would obviously be an echo of Sonic. The exact same arguments apply to both characters.

(Except the "I only played SA2 and Heroes so ignore every other game Shadow was in" argument. Not trying to make this discussion about Shadow I'm just pointing out the hypocricy.)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But Pit cannot be a semi-clone of Samus.

The power of friendship and the 80s can do anything

 

[Murlough]

So, just got a Question for all of you, What's your Favorite Skin for your main/mains?

Mine is the Yellow Kirby for Kirby, Because It's a callback to Kirby's Dream Course, and who doesn't like playing as a bassically golden kirby?

Palutena only has good skins.
Blu2
Goggles Pichu
PikaLibre
Blood Falcon
VoiD Sheik. (Only name I can think of for it)

EDIT: Been seriously considering Pokemon Trainer as my main for Ultimate, assuming Mimikyu doesn't get in. In which case I'll play a Leaf variant.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I kind of wish that Mewtwo had better palette options to choose from. Using a different shade of white for the body doesn't feel creative enough. As such, I took the time to set up my Mewtwo recolors, using its Smash Ultimate artwork.

Note: My blue palette Mewtwo had green eye irises in Smash Wii U, but its iris color now matches its tail color.

 

[Murlough]

I kind of wish that Mewtwo had better palette options to choose from. Using a different shade of white for the body doesn't feel creative enough. As such, I took the time to set up my Mewtwo recolors, using its Smash Ultimate artwork.

View attachment 152056

Note: My blue palette Mewtwo had green eye irises in Smash Wii U, but its iris color now matches its tail color.

I really like your Shiny recolor. It looks perfect, tbh.

I'd miss Shadow Lugia M2 with all 6 though. I guess your recolor is based on Shadow Mewtwo but I personally like the Black/White colors better.

I wish Butter2 would stop existing.

 

[Deleted member]

I really like your Shiny recolor. It looks perfect, tbh.

I'd miss Shadow Lugia M2 with all 6 though. I guess your recolor is based on Shadow Mewtwo but I personally like the Black/White colors better.

I wish Butter2 would stop existing.

The black and red reminds me of Darkrai rather than Shadow Mewtwo (which is orange and black), but the eyes aren't blue so it's not a perfect match.