Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

That doesn’t really change the fact that Ninten and Ness look EXACTLY alike and would probably play exactly the same in Smash.

Yeah, so? Easy peasy programming unless Sakurai wanted to make him a semi-clone and make his neutral special PK Beam or something.

YOU MONSTER

Spoiler

You could make this a gimp like Luigi's down taunt.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

After watching Ant-Man and the Wasp...I now want a small flying Nintendo character in Smash...or Charmy Bee

Good news, Ray Mk-III can fit that. Bad news, his series is stone dead to the point even the trophies got removed.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even though I'm a total EarthBound fanatic, I have to be honest and say the franchise hasn't really done anything to warrant getting a third character. Echo Fighter or not, I think a third character is really pushing it at this point, and the only way I'd be willing to get on board with the idea is if Nintendo revived the franchise and made some new games.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Earthbound is a dead series, unfortunately. Nintendo probably leaves the series alone out of respect for Itoi.

 

[Smashiny]

Even though I'm a total EarthBound fanatic, I have to be honest and say the franchise hasn't really done anything to warrant getting a third character. Echo Fighter or not, I think a third character is really pushing it at this point, and the only way I'd be willing to get on board with the idea is if Nintendo revived the franchise and made some new games.

I think they should just make Ninten an alt costume for Ness, like Alph is for Olimar. Would be nice to see the 3 games represented like that.

 

[Will]

if Nintendo revived the franchise and made some new games.

Mother as a series ended with 3. Story's over, don't whack it for profit.
The only way I could see if is if Itoi approved a remake of some sort, which I don't see happening ever.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Mother as a series ended with 3. Story's over, don't whack it for profit.
The only way I could see if is if Itoi approved a remake of some sort, which I don't see happening ever.

Besides, there's still that off-brand fangame/spiritual successor being made (assuming the staff doesn't implode by the New 20s).

 

[Will]

Besides, there's still that off-brand fangame/spiritual successor being made (assuming the staff doesn't implode by the New 20s).

Development hell is the worst kind of hell.

 

[Zinith]

Any ideas of Assist Trophies from franchises that have a playable rep that doesn't have an AT yet?

-Donkey Kong
-Yoshi
-Ice Climber
-Game & Watch
-Punch-Out (now that Little Mac is a fighter)
-Mii
-Duck Hunt
-Street Fighter
-Final Fantasy

Got bored so I decided to break the ice

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A Mother 3 remake is the only possible thing for the franchise imo although I highly doubt it'd release outside Japan unless Nintendo's willing to jack up the age rating or heavily change it

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think it's fine that they're not doing anything with Mother, without Itoi's involvement it would never be the same, and Mother 3 wrapped it all up anyways, it's perfectly fine just being the trilogy it is. Unlike so many other Nintendo franchises I don't think it needs to be active, all three games are incredibly unique experiences and you can only recapture that feeling so many times, it's not a series that would necessarily benefit from having regular releases imo.

I would obviously love a 3rd character for it in Smash, but I'm already very grateful of how much content it's getting as is.

 

[KingBroly]

Any ideas of Assist Trophies from franchises that have a playable rep that doesn't have an AT yet?

-Donkey Kong
-Yoshi
-Ice Climber
-Game & Watch
-Punch-Out (now that Little Mac is a fighter)
-Mii
-Duck Hunt
-Street Fighter
-Final Fantasy

DK: Squawks saves a player from a pitfall KO
Yoshi: Baby Mario comes out and annoys everyone
Ice Climber: The Polar bear comes out and just runs into people for damage/knockback
G&W: A couch where you could lose it behind?
Punch-Out: King Hippo comes out and just punches people. If hit, he loses his shorts for a bit and can be KO'd
Mii: Play Coins. Collect 10 for a Smash Ball
Duck Hunt: Not really sure
Street Fighter: Chun-Li with 1000 Kicks OR Dan with the LEGENDARY TAUNT
Final Fantasy: Sephiroth comes out and kills a random female character

 

[DJ3DS]

You know what concerns me more than echoes and Simon Belmont? Online play, particularly how misguided FG was. FD only was a horrible way to go about having a "competitive mode," as it promotes uneven MUs, FD gives an advantage to certain characters. If you get paired with R.O.B, Mac or anyone with top mobility they flat out won't approach and will have a guaranteed advantage, because of the lack of platforms and how gigantic a lot of the omegas are (at least from 3DS exp). Speaking of omegas, the ones that have walls heavily promote planking, particular offenders are Mario, Corn, and Bayo. Because of lag and other factors those characters can go straight to the wall and recover completely unpunished from the very bottom of the stage. Adding Battlefield into FG won't solve the issue entirely. Better than nothing but then it is a 50/50 of A) going to a tri-plat to get roof KOd or b) FD to get camped and planked. If Smash 5 had a similar server to Smash Ladder it would definitely be sweet, but even a system that primitive doesn't seem to be in the Smash 's intentions. The most they could do is add Trashville and T&C somewhere, I don't know...

Whilst I agree with what you're saying in principle, planking is not a problem that's in any way restricted to a specific stage (and indeed shouldn't be a problem with Smash 4 ledge mechanics) and ROB doesn't have an advantage on FD because he has no good landing options.

I'd be very surprised if a Smash Ladder system happened, and moreover even if it did it would almost certainly not correspond to the stages the community ends up deeming legal anyway. If any kind of striking happened it would likely be between BF, Omega and Hazardless forms.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Would Tails be a Sonic's echo character?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Any ideas of Assist Trophies from franchises that have a playable rep that doesn't have an AT yet?

-Donkey Kong
-Yoshi
-Ice Climber
-Game & Watch
-Punch-Out (now that Little Mac is a fighter)
-Mii
-Duck Hunt
-Street Fighter
-Final Fantasy

Got bored so I decided to break the ice

Polar Bear: it lowers the layer every time it jumps.
Condor: it steals an item, beat it up or it'll leave with it.

 

[Pyra]

Any ideas of Assist Trophies from franchises that have a playable rep that doesn't have an AT yet?

-Donkey Kong
-Yoshi
-Ice Climber
-Game & Watch
-Punch-Out (now that Little Mac is a fighter)
-Mii
-Duck Hunt
-Street Fighter
-Final Fantasy

Got bored so I decided to break the ice

Okay so here we go, I'm at work and woke up half an hour ago and desperately need more sleep so have my ramblings

Original Tiny Kong for an assist trophy? Where she can fly around and get small but otherwise is pretty much the same as the other assist trophies that go around punching everyone.

Pak E. Derm for Yoshi. Does nothing but stand there with a stop sign, but is kinda tall and annoying. You can't walk through him. Effectively a wall.

I've got nothing for Ice Climber. The Polar Bear? Is that part of a stage still?

Game and Watch? The character himself pretty much covers notable things from his games, but I'm sure there are more obscure ones to pull from.
The shadow bugs from subspace emissary.


King Hippo would be kinda funny, with his towering over the players and having his shorts fall as the only way to make him vulnerable before he leaves.

FIGHTING MII TEAM

Probably a swarm of ducks? Kinda like the stage.
Though since the character technically represents all the Zapper games probably could include someone from one of those.

I don't know much about street fighter haha but ... Blanka? Haha

Donald and Goofy. Black Mage.

 

[Zinith]

Donkey Kong: Rattly jumps around the stage knocking opponents down
Yoshi: Baseball Boy will grab an opponent and try to throw them into the blast zone
Ice Climber: Polar Bear will jump up, hit the ground and it will move the camera up making the bottom of the stage extra close to the blast zone
Game & Watch: Helmet is where tools start to avalanche the stage in erratic animations
Punch-Out: Glass Joe starts to punch people. One of the easier ATs to KO.

Honestly I couldn't think of the rest, I'm too tired

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Realistically, I think we're going to get a lot of fan favorites, but there will still be some promotional and WTF picks.

I expect new IPs or new landmark games to be pushed. Sakurai doesn't have all the control there and Smash will always be used to advertise for Nintendo. Just the nature of the beast.

When it comes to third-parties and Pokemon characters? Sure. Otherwise Sakurai has the final say on Nintendo characters. As shown here and here

Iwata: Everyone understood for the most part since that’s the nature of Smash Bros. However, there were debates about where to draw the line. For the most part though, it was readily solved since we were comfortable that you were in charge for the selection. I myself thought it was best to make the game as inclusive and entertaining as possible since festive opportunities like Smash Bros. come along only once in a great while.

Sakurai: I’m glad everyone felt they could trust me. For my part, I have no regrets about incorporating Snake and Sonic into the game and I think their inclusion was well worthwhile.

Iwata: Now that you’ve put them in the game, can you tell me what they’re like?

Sakurai: Hmm, what should I say? I think they’re solid characters with a lot of potential.

Iwata: Because they’re non-Nintendo characters?

Sakurai: Right. They’ve certainly have a distinct feel to them. It’s not that I was consciously trying to design Nintendo and non-Nintendo characters, but ultimately, I feel they’re molded differently than the other characters as far as the laws of Smash Bros. are concerned.

Iwata: I was impressed with the end results. They blend in as if they’ve always been there yet also possess a fresh, new aura.

Sakurai
Thank you. I think that once you play these characters and learn their moves, you’ll realize how they differ from other characters. Ultimately, they account for characteristics that can’t be obtained simply by increasing the number of Nintendo characters. I was even able to go all-out with their showy performances.

On the discussions of getting Shulk into Smash Bros. and the bathing suit skin idea…

Mr. Takahashi: New characters for Super Smash Bros. are determined by Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai. Nintendo had released several new RPG games around 2010, but it sounds like Xenoblade Chronicles stuck out to him in particular due to its high quality and popularity. He also had the idea that Monado Arts can be used to change Shulk’s nature in battles, allowing him to add new and completely different elements to the character that other fighters don’t have. The Shulk bathing-suit skin was also an idea from Mr. Sakurai.

Ideally, Sakurai is able to combine these character types. For example, and arguably are a fan favorites AND promotional characters for games that have come out within the last year.

I think we'll get some fan favorites for sure, but Sakurai isn't throwing out all his old criteria.

None of those characters are promotional characters. Daisy has nothing to promote that isn't covered by Mario himself and he sure isn't a promotional character. Same deal with Ridley since Samus alone is already enough to "promote" her entire franchise so in that regard, Ridley serves no advertisement purposes.

And just like the Inklings, he isn't even based off the latest game in his franchise with Samus Returns and Splatoon 2 barely having any content in Ultimate. How are you supposed to promote upcoming games if you don't even try to use Smash to represent and remind players that those games exists?

The only characters that ever got in order to promote an upcoming are and (and the latter only got considered because he was a feasible last-minute addition, so promoting an upcoming game wasn't even a priority for Melee).

 

[Zinith]

Oops, forgot about Wii Fit...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, it looks like Ninty Life got the lid off the recent ballot talks:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...tes_might_not_have_been_used_for_smash_4s_dlc

Okay so here we go, I'm at work and woke up half an hour ago and desperately need more sleep so have my ramblings

Original Tiny Kong for an assist trophy? Where she can fly around and get small but otherwise is pretty much the same as the other assist trophies that go around punching everyone.

Pak E. Derm for Yoshi. Does nothing but stand there with a stop sign, but is kinda tall and annoying. You can't walk through him. Effectively a wall.

I've got nothing for Ice Climber. The Polar Bear? Is that part of a stage still?

Game and Watch? The character himself pretty much covers notable things from his games, but I'm sure there are more obscure ones to pull from.
The shadow bugs from subspace emissary.


King Hippo would be kinda funny, with his towering over the players and having his shorts fall as the only way to make him vulnerable before he leaves.

FIGHTING MII TEAM

Probably a swarm of ducks? Kinda like the stage.
Though since the character technically represents all the Zapper games probably could include someone from one of those.

I don't know much about street fighter haha but ... Blanka? Haha

Donald and Goofy. Black Mage.

One could always use the wolf to represent a G&W AT.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Smiling through the pain

It's definitely a beta if Jigglypuff doesn't have its different expressions yet.

In regards to Yoshi, I think his tail attacks should be making a punch sound effect with their hitboxes; the kick sound effect doesn't sound right, since Yoshi's tail is nowhere near as long, or as heavy as Charizard's tail.

 

[KMDP]

Would Tails be a Sonic's echo character?

No. Tails can't perform Sonic's Up Throw, simple as that.

That's not even getting into the fact that making him an Echo wastes his ability to fly, since he would have to share Sonic's jumps and Up+B.

 

[Zinith]

It's definitely a beta if Jigglypuff doesn't have its different expressions yet.

In regards to Yoshi, I think his tail attacks should be making a punch sound effect with their hitboxes; the kick sound effect doesn't sound right, since Yoshi's tail is nowhere near as long, or as heavy as Charizard's tail.

It might be an increase in power for Yoshi's bair.

 

[RileyXY1]

Would Tails be a Sonic's echo character?

No. Tails has a ton of unique attacks he can use.

 

[Zinith]

Would Tails be a Sonic's echo character?

*recovers from epileptic shock* E-e-excuse me?!!

 

[KMDP]

No. Tails has a ton of unique attacks he can use.

The same can be said for Shadow though!

Please don't take this as an opening to start that debate again, I'm about to go to bed.XD

 

[Roberto zampari]

No. Tails has a ton of unique attacks he can use.

What unique attacks? Explain me.

 

[RileyXY1]

What unique attacks? Explain me.

His various inventions and his helicopter tails. Making him an echo of Sonic would just be a disservice. Shadow is a much better Sonic echo.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It might be an increase in power for Yoshi's bair.

Yoshi technically isn't supposed to be in the same power league as the super heavy fighters though. Against Mario, most of his attacks wouldn't start KOing until Mario's current damage goes over 100%.

 

[Cosmic77]

None of those characters are promotional characters. Daisy has nothing to promote that isn't covered by Mario himself and he sure isn't a promotional character. Same deal with Ridley since Samus alone is already enough to "promote" her entire franchise so in that regard, Ridley serves no advertisement purposes.

And just like the Inklings, he isn't even based off the latest game in his franchise with Samus Returns and Splatoon 2 barely having any content in Ultimate. How are you supposed to promote upcoming games if you don't even try to use Smash to represent and remind players that those games exists?

I think he's talking about characters who Nintendo could use as promotional material, not just characters who got added in Smash purely as a promotion.

Inklings can easily be considered promotional characters. Doesn't really matter if most of the Splatoon content is inspired from the original. The Inklings play almost identically in Splatoon 2, and if people who purchased Ultimate find the franchise interesting, Nintendo could easily take advantage of it and say, "If you enjoyed the Inklings in Smash, why not pick up Splatoon 2?"

Not sure if Sakurai knew about the future of Metroid at the time Ridley was decided, but I can almost guarantee you that Nintendo is gonna find a way to promote Prime 4 through Smash and Ridley. It seems like such an obvious marketing strategy, and I'd like to think a decent number of people who buy Ultimate would also be interested in a game like Prime 4.

It can be argued that Daisy is a promotional character too, but she's not tied down to a specific game. I doubt they'll ever do anything with her, but the option is always on the table for Nintendo.

 

[Zinith]

Yoshi technically isn't supposed to be in the same power league as the super heavy fighters though. Against Mario, most of his attacks wouldn't start KOing until Mario's current damage goes over 100%.

That may change this time around (also Yoshi is a surprisingly heavy character). We don't know for sure since we've not seen Yoshi in action yet. *grumble grumble*

It doesn't have to be the status quo all the time. Give Yoshi more power!!!

 

[Pyra]

Shadow will be Wario's echo fighter.
Motorcycle.

Alright, now fight.

Also Rouge the Bat would probably make a more interesting semi-clone moveset + gliding and digging, like the Knuckles assist trophy except playable. Probably just to me.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Since that every fighter returned, i wonder if Break the targets and Board the platforms would be included in Smash Bros Ultimate.
Anyone liked these mini games?

 

[Zinith]

Since that every fighter returned, i wonder if Break the targets and Board the platforms would be included in Smash Bros Ultimate.
Anyone liked these mini games?

I don't know if we'll ever get Board the Platforms back, but we should at least have Break the Targets and not whatever that Angry Birds thing was supposed to be...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Hey, I'm not arguing against balancing or balance updates, just that they aren't the end-all-be-all of Smash.

Also, 'nobody balances characters that way', what do you mean? Smash's game developers have millions upon millions upon millions of character interactions to test; if one slips through the cracks (see; Meta Knight in Brawl, Bayo's glitches in Ultimate's Beta), you have balance patches now.

All that I know is that when testing attacks to get down their KO potential, you would think that Mario is the best test subject for his all-around status. However, even if an attack KOs Mario at a fair damage percentage, it could end up being cheap against a fighter who's much lighter, or not good enough to take down a heavier fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

If Shadow gets in, than I am hoping he is not too edgy in Adventure mode or Subspace if it has dialogue.

Like I do not want Shadow being edgy 100% of the time like he was in Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

[KMDP]

What unique attacks? Explain me.

Okay, so...
While Tails is capable of using the Spin Dash. He lacks spikes, so any attack that Sonic performs in Smash that uses spikes (example: the aforementioned up-throw) is off the table.

In almost all of Tails' appearances, he is shown flying using his tails, in the games with Co-Op modes (Sonic 3, Sonic 4.2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Advance 3), he is shown to be able to carry people (usually Sonic) while flying.

In Sonic Battle, Tails can use a robotic boxing glove on an extending arm to attack (it's weird, I know), while also having a small "Chu-Bomb", based on the Chu-Chu Rocket games.

In Sonic Heroes, he has an attack called Thunder Shoot, which allows him to 'fire' carried allies at enemies. In Sonic '06, he uses an item called the "Dummy Ring Bomb", which is exactly what it sounds like, he throws fake rings that explode.

There's also Tails Adventure for the Sega Game Gear (one of Tails' earliest appearances), he has actual (cartoon) bombs, along with a small robot helper that has a few uses of it's own that I can't immediately recall right now. I believe he also has a Drill in that game, too?

Finally, in Sonic Adventure, not only can Tails fly like usual, but he can also use his tails to attack by spinning, he also does this in the Sonic Advance trilogy.

I believe this is a comprehensive list of everything Tails can do off the top of my head.
I'd also cover Shadow's capabilities, but he wasn't asked about.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Since that Ridley was included in Smash as a playable character, i wonder if Eggman in his mech would be included?
Sakurai know how to surprise everyone.

 

[Zinith]

Man I can't get enough of that expression. Both of them...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That may change this time around (also Yoshi is a surprisingly heavy character). We don't know for sure since we've not seen Yoshi in action yet. *grumble grumble*

It doesn't have to be the status quo all the time. Give Yoshi more power!!!

Yoshi's weight has gradually decreased with each Smash Bros. installment though. If the weight decrease trend continues, then Smash Ultimate Yoshi may end up being in the middleweight category.