Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

I'd move Robin up and Roy down, but other than that I agree with this.

I'd move several of the "challanging deities" characters down...

Edit: Like I said before, feats =/= abilities

 

[Jetsurge]

QUESTION

If this game gets DLC, who do you think would be the perfect final DLC Character?

Inb4 it's the FE Switch Protagonist

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Inb4 it's the FE Switch Protagonist

You just wanna see the world burn don't ya

 

[Makai Wars]

A movie.

What's a movie have to do with anything? Marshadow, Magerna and Ho-Oh all had recent movie appearances. Zeraora showed up much too late to the party, being revealed offcially part way through Gen 7, much later than the project plan. If we're getting a new Pokemon rep, it's going to be one of the premier Pokemon. Mimikyu is miles ahead of Zeroara but Mimkyu isn't even the most likely candidate.

Zeraora also made zero splashes in the Pokemon community, it's "popular" entirely because Gamefreak says it's popular. Alolan Vulpix, Rowlet, Alolan Meowth, and some UBs like Poipole are all significantly more popular than Zeraora.

Inb4 it's the FE Switch Protagonist

Jesus christ no, people are still mad about Corrin, and rightfully so tbh.

 

[UltimateWario]

Ness

Spoiler

Ness doesn't defeat Giygas tho, the entire planet's hopes and dreams do. Ness's defeat of a godlike entity was a veeeeeeeery special scenario. I'd put him at the top of "Capable of Defeating Monsters".

Also what Makai Wars said about Wario, he's obscenely powerful he just doesn't do much with it.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Another "leak." The name of the "leaker:? ESRB1753 (that means nothing, but it's funny that he's trying to imitate the ESRB leak).

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422977159
NEW CHARACTERS:
Simon Belmont
King K. Rool
Lycanroc
Shovel Knight
Rex/Pyra

NEW ECHOES:
Dark Samus
Ninten

NEW STAGES:
Gyromite
Altar of the Sunne/Moone
Bowser's Castle
Indoline Praetorium
Dracula's Castle
Gangplank Galleon
Tower of Fate
Dr. Mario

RETURNING STAGES:
Fountain of Dreams
Pictochat X (combines drawings from both)
Poke Floats, as well as a second version with Gen 3-7 Pokemon
Brinstar Depths

MODES:
Classic Mode functions like a combination of Melee and 3DS, featuring multiple paths and randomized challenges.
Adventure Mode from Melee returns, and has several linear 2D stages and bosses.
Events are laid out similar to Melee and Brawl.
Smash Run returns, but not Smash Tour.
Target Tests for each character are back, but Target Blast still remains with 5 stages.
All-Star now toggles how many fighters from each generation appear via difficulty.

I hope this information will be received well. There are demos slowly being leaked out according to my sources, so stay tuned.

Thanks for doing this for us. They may be fake as all peck, but they still build hype and build fandom confidence in their favorite characters (so long as they're featured, that is). Looking forward to the next forgery!

QUESTION

If this game gets DLC, who do you think would be the perfect final DLC Character?

I've been thinking about it, and honestly, there's only one character I could potentially see getting this treatment. This character is Tabuu. I've been imagining a trailer for him, featuring every fighter, base and downloadable, old and new, stepping up against him in the beginning, with Mario being the last man standing in the last few seconds. Plus, he's the smallest SSE boss, arguably just a bit larger than Ganondorf. It'd be cool to see him make an appearance in this game, but extra brownie points may be awarded if he's the last one.

 

[Will]

So, I know this conversation was a bit ago, but I just finished my own canon-power tier list. Beware of spoilers.

Spoiler: Actual Spoilers for Xenoblade

Shulk, Sonic, Ness, Bayonetta, Kirby, Samus, Megaman, Cloud, Roy, Link, Ike, Corrin, Robin, Marth, and Lucina are in their most powerful forms. ie, Super Sonic, Post-Magicant Ness, Kirby when he cares, etc.

>Little Mac in only Peak Human
>DK Superhuman
>J I G G L Y P U F F Peak Human
Did you forget when Sandman actually obliterated a building? Or when DK just slapped the moon down to Earth? This tier list is good, it's just not very specific.

Falcon has some type of powerscaling, but without that he's mostly just superhuman from the anime.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What's a movie have to do with anything? Marshadow, Magerna and Ho-Oh all had recent movie appearances. Zeraora showed up much too late to the party, being revealed offcially part way through Gen 7, much later than the project plan. If we're getting a new Pokemon rep, it's going to be one of the premier Pokemon. Mimikyu is miles ahead of Zeroara but Mimkyu isn't even the most likely candidate.

Zeraora also made zero splashes in the Pokemon community, it's "popular" entirely because Gamefreak says it's popular. Alolan Vulpix, Rowlet, Alolan Meowth, and some UBs like Poipole are all significantly more popular than Zeraora.



Jesus christ no, people are still mad about Corrin, and rightfully so tbh.

You asked what the significance of Zeraora was. I didn't say it justified his inclusion. I don't even think he's going to happen.

 

[Pacack]

I'd move Robin up and Roy down, but other than that I agree with this.

I put Roy so high because his sword is actually ridiculously powerful. Robin, while strong, is still comparable to Marth and Lucina.

I'd move several of the "challanging deities" characters down...

Edit: Like I said before, feats =/= abilities

Who, exactly? I actually ordered the characters before trying to get a name for the tiers, so I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Zinith]

I also want to note that in Yoshi's Island during the Rafael the Raven battle, Yoshi Ground Pounded a stake up Raven's butt so hard it launched him out into space and he turned into a constellation. That is at least something to consider

 

[Smashiny]

Metal Mario

Pink gold Peach

 

[Will]

Who, exactly? I actually ordered the characters before trying to get a name for the tiers, so I'm genuinely curious.

A general listing was made by some Russian dudes but mostly utilized by an old wiki that shut down quite recently. Basically, you got your basic human level up to your universals, and then that splits into either cantor or dimensional tiering which we don't need to talk about none of these are at that point so let's not worry about it

 

[UltimateWario]

I also want to note that in Yoshi's Island during the Rafael the Raven battle, Yoshi Ground Pounded a stake up Raven's butt so hard it launched him out into space and he turned into a constellation. That is at least something to consider

"God I wish that was me."

 

[Jetsurge]

Ash-Greninja is got to be Greninja's new final smash. It was because of it that Greninja became the number one most popular Pokemon in Japan.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

QUESTION

If this game gets DLC, who do you think would be the perfect final DLC Character?

Sora from Kingdom Hearts

 

[Will]

Ash-Greninja is got to be Greninja's new final smash. It was because of it that Greninja became the number one most popular Pokemon in Japan.

Since when did we use the Pokemon anime in Smash? Baseless, it's probably the same final smash.

 

[Opossum]

Almost every Pokémon should be superhuman at bare minimum, even one like Jigglypuff.

Keep in mind that through egg moves or tutors, Jigglypuff gets access to moves like Gravity and Perish Song, and moves like Thunderbolt and Fire Blast through TMs. Natural or not, Jigglypuff is still capable of superhuman feats and definitely shouldn't be just peak human.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The leak machine has started back up again baybee. Another puzzle-ish "leak."

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422978031
Before I start, I want you to know that my source is indeed credible. I have a good friend in Japan who I met on a blog a while back who is currently on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate team. He has given me this information first hand but has requested I try to be vague so not to risk his job, so I'm just gonna give you some vague descriptions.

- 7 newcomers in total (counting Ridley and Inklings, NOT counting Echo fighters)
- There will be DLC but my source does not have any information on it yet
- Remaining 5 newcomers are fat crocodile, whip guy, wind mage, wooden doll, and white hair rogue
- 4 more Echo fighters, those being edgy hedgehog, edgy space soldier, ponytail monkey, and ninja

That's all for now.

You know most of you guys are pretty smart for not beleiving this but honestly this is kinda the only place where I can remain anonymous.

My thoughts on the characters:
Fat Crocodile: K. Rool
Whip Guy: Simon
Wind Mage: Celica? (Celica's Gale) Isaac? (Wind Dijin) Ashley? Lip? Terra Branford?
Wooden Doll: Geno
White Hair Rogue Dante? Geralt? Yu Narukami? Ragna the Bloodedge? Edelgard? Ivy Valentine? Old Heihachi?
Edgy Hedgehog: Shadow
Edgy Space Soldier: Dark Samus
Ponytail Monkey: Dixie Kong
Ninja: Impa

Anybody want to help with "Wind Mage" and "White Hair Rogue?"

 

[Jetsurge]

Since when did we use the Pokemon anime in Smash? Baseless, it's probably the same final smash.

Jiggypuff is literally in Smash because of the anime and Mewtwo and Lucario are obviously based on their movie version.s Besides Ash-Greninja was added into the games anyway in Sun and Moon.

 

[Opossum]

Since when did we use the Pokemon anime in Smash? Baseless, it's probably the same final smash.

Misty's Melee trophy uses her anime appearance, and Pokémon Trainer's Smash 4 trophy references Ash by name. It's not unprecedented.

Hell, the fact that the Pokémon speak by saying their own name is something that comes directly from the anime.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Almost every Pokémon should be superhuman at bare minimum, even one like Jigglypuff.

Keep in mind that through egg moves or tutors, Jigglypuff gets access to moves like Gravity and Perish Song, and moves like Thunderbolt and Fire Blast through TMs. Natural or not, Jigglypuff is still capable of superhuman feats and definitely shouldn't be just peak human.

Reminder Escavalier, a pokemon with a base speed of 30, can go Mach 1 and Heracross should be able to lift up 12 Groundons at once according to the dex. This means Pokemon are ****ing ridiculous

 

[Starbound]

Why them?

SM/USM are story-driven games, and I think it's appropriate to add a legendary Pokemon to symbolically show off that quality.

Both characters are highly important in the games, with Tapu Koko being a mentor figure that eventually accepts that your character is capable of working with it (shown by it challenging you to battle after becoming champion). Koko is also highly relevant in the anime, much like Mimikyu and Lycanroc are. Meanwhile, Nihilego is one of the big bads in the story, possessing a main character's mother with parasitic poison and just generally being this weird elephant in the room by virtue of being an Ultra Beast, as it is the object of the antagonist's affection to the point where it becomes the antagonist itself. It's also recently come up in the anime, and is one of the very few times they make a big deal about Pokemon attacking people (similarities to Mewtwo can be drawn). This makes both very interesting choices than Decidueye, Lycanroc and Mimikyu, as all three are kind of just random Pokemon drawn out of a hat to someone that doesn't watch the show (Decidueye being a minor exception as a starter Pokemon, but it also seems to be the only one getting much attention).

Moveset-wise, Nihilego does have earth-bending capabilities as a Rock-type, but I would imagine its moveset would heavily draw from its extensive role of nerotoxins (as a Poison-type, which we really don't see in Smash aside from Ivysaur's powders, which could be anything). I think this makes Nihilego a very unique option, as there is nothing that comes close to closing in on its niche of being an earthbending, brain controlling, venomous blorb thing.

Tapu Koko is a land guardian, so its moveset would heavily involve controlling the stage, probably using Electric Terrain. As the PokeDex calls it extremely violent when someone enters its turf, it defends it and loves to battle as a result. The terrain buff effect on the battlefield would power it up. This would be unique as buffing moves aren't seen in Smash aside from Deep Breathing and the likely removed Lightweight, only the buff is applied to the field (meaning everyone can take advantage of it). It's also a bird (based on a rooster), something unique physiologically to the Smash environment. It's not quite like putting traps on a battlefield as Koko's can backfire against you if you lose posession of it. Which thematically fits the game as Electric Terrain is applied to the battlefield, it isn't just Koko's own buff.

Idk, both of these get me more excited than "it's an archer with leaves that is kind of spooky" (I played Poken DX religiously and Decidueye's moveset is literally just arrows, I don't know how people get excited over that), or "i throw rocks" or whatever people think Lycanroc would do. And I don't even know what separates Mimikyu as a unique fighter (it has Disguise but that doesn't translate to Smash well, and what does being a Fairy type really mean in terms of Smash? Just lots of hearts?).

 

[Opossum]

The leak machine has started back up again baybee. Another puzzle-ish "leak."

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422978031
Before I start, I want you to know that my source is indeed credible. I have a good friend in Japan who I met on a blog a while back who is currently on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate team. He has given me this information first hand but has requested I try to be vague so not to risk his job, so I'm just gonna give you some vague descriptions.

- 7 newcomers in total (counting Ridley and Inklings, NOT counting Echo fighters)
- There will be DLC but my source does not have any information on it yet
- Remaining 5 newcomers are fat crocodile, whip guy, wind mage, wooden doll, and white hair rogue
- 4 more Echo fighters, those being edgy hedgehog, edgy space soldier, ponytail monkey, and ninja

That's all for now.

You know most of you guys are pretty smart for not beleiving this but honestly this is kinda the only place where I can remain anonymous.

My thoughts on the characters:
Fat Crocodile: K. Rool
Whip Guy: Simon
Wind Mage: Celica? (Celica's Gale) Isaac? (Wind Dijin) Ashley? Lip? Terra Branford?
Wooden Doll: Geno
White Hair Rogue Dante? Geralt? Yu Narukami? Ragna the Bloodedge? Edelgard? Ivy Valentine? Old Heihachi?
Edgy Hedgehog: Shadow
Edgy Space Soldier: Dark Samus
Ponytail Monkey: Dixie Kong
Ninja: Impa

Anybody want to help with "Wind Mage" and "White Hair Rogue?"

> Wind Mage

M E R R I C B O Y S
They likely mean Vaati.

 

[osby]

The leak machine has started back up again baybee. Another puzzle-ish "leak."

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422978031
Before I start, I want you to know that my source is indeed credible. I have a good friend in Japan who I met on a blog a while back who is currently on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate team. He has given me this information first hand but has requested I try to be vague so not to risk his job, so I'm just gonna give you some vague descriptions.

- 7 newcomers in total (counting Ridley and Inklings, NOT counting Echo fighters)
- There will be DLC but my source does not have any information on it yet
- Remaining 5 newcomers are fat crocodile, whip guy, wind mage, wooden doll, and white hair rogue
- 4 more Echo fighters, those being edgy hedgehog, edgy space soldier, ponytail monkey, and ninja

That's all for now.

You know most of you guys are pretty smart for not beleiving this but honestly this is kinda the only place where I can remain anonymous.

My thoughts on the characters:
Fat Crocodile: K. Rool
Whip Guy: Simon
Wind Mage: Celica? (Celica's Gale) Isaac? (Wind Dijin) Ashley? Lip? Terra Branford?
Wooden Doll: Geno
White Hair Rogue Dante? Geralt? Yu Narukami? Ragna the Bloodedge? Edelgard? Ivy Valentine? Old Heihachi?
Edgy Hedgehog: Shadow
Edgy Space Soldier: Dark Samus
Ponytail Monkey: Dixie Kong
Ninja: Impa

Anybody want to help with "Wind Mage" and "White Hair Rogue?"

Yu Narukami, because he has to be in every game, like Ryu.

 

[Starbound]

> Wind Mage

M E R R I C B O Y S
They likely mean Vaati.

It's Boey's time to shine.

 

[Impa4Smash]

The leak machine has started back up again baybee. Another puzzle-ish "leak."

Spoiler: "Leak"

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422978031
Before I start, I want you to know that my source is indeed credible. I have a good friend in Japan who I met on a blog a while back who is currently on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate team. He has given me this information first hand but has requested I try to be vague so not to risk his job, so I'm just gonna give you some vague descriptions.

- 7 newcomers in total (counting Ridley and Inklings, NOT counting Echo fighters)
- There will be DLC but my source does not have any information on it yet
- Remaining 5 newcomers are fat crocodile, whip guy, wind mage, wooden doll, and white hair rogue
- 4 more Echo fighters, those being edgy hedgehog, edgy space soldier, ponytail monkey, and ninja

That's all for now.

You know most of you guys are pretty smart for not beleiving this but honestly this is kinda the only place where I can remain anonymous.

My thoughts on the characters:
Fat Crocodile: K. Rool
Whip Guy: Simon
Wind Mage: Celica? (Celica's Gale) Isaac? (Wind Dijin) Ashley? Lip? Terra Branford?
Wooden Doll: Geno
White Hair Rogue Dante? Geralt? Yu Narukami? Ragna the Bloodedge? Edelgard? Ivy Valentine? Old Heihachi?
Edgy Hedgehog: Shadow
Edgy Space Soldier: Dark Samus
Ponytail Monkey: Dixie Kong
Ninja: Impa

Anybody want to help with "Wind Mage" and "White Hair Rogue?"

Vaati is often referred to as "wind mage".
No clue on the white hair rogue

 

[Makai Wars]

Yu Narukami, because he has to be in every game, like Ryu.

Is it bad that I'd openly welcome Yu Narukami? It'd be pretty cool to have a "stand" user in Smash.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

There is a giant difference between modders and professional programmer, who built that code from scratch by themself. Especially when the program was already built with the idea of expanding the roster with DLC characters.

And I suppose that if something went wrong with Bayonetta negotiations (which was extremely unlikely due to how much Nintendo is influencial in that franchise) they could have always overwritten that ZSS slot with another character.

Of course there's a difference, but the fact remains that trying to add any content to a game isn't an effortless endeavor. They didn't just copy Zamus' files and then paste them into another folder, the game's coding had to be directly altered to create the slot, account for an additional character, and for the character to be inserted into it. Then there's the additional work needed to keep the character completely hidden in the retail game without ****ing anything up.

And that would still be wasted man hours/money that could have been easily avoided by just wailing a little, especially when there's also absolutely no rush to begin with (while that also assumes it is just a duplicate Zero Suit Samus who didn't have any Bayo alterations and assets being made yet).

 

[Will]

Is it bad that I'd openly welcome Yu Narukami? It'd be pretty cool to have a "stand" user in Smash.

It'd be pretty cool to have a "stand" user in Smash.

"stand" user in Smash.

M E R R I C B O Y S

His final smash is Garnef.
Nobody can defeat Garnef.

 

[Pacack]

Spoiler

Ness doesn't defeat Giygas tho, the entire planet's hopes and dreams do. Ness's defeat of a godlike entity was a veeeeeeeery special scenario. I'd put him at the top of "Capable of Defeating Monsters".

Also what Makai Wars said about Wario, he's obscenely powerful he just doesn't do much with it.

Spoiler: Earthbound Spoilers

Oh, I know. I didn't put him in that list because of his Giygas battle. Even without that, Ness gained extraordinary power from the Sea of Eden, becoming one with the world. Afterwards, he was able to survive attacks from Giygas, which alone says something.

>Little Mac in only Peak Human
>DK Superhuman
>J I G G L Y P U F F Peak Human
Did you forget when Sandman actually obliterated a building? Or when DK just slapped the moon down to Earth? This tier list is good, it's just not very specific.

Falcon has some type of powerscaling, but without that he's mostly just superhuman from the anime.

Is this better?

EDIT: Forgot to move Wario.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Vaati is often referred to as "wind mage".
No clue on the white hair rogue

White haired rogue could maybe be Elma?

I don't know.

 

[Will]

Is this better?

>capable of defeating monsters

I agree with the Ness standpoint since the boy became Omnipresent, but the specifics is more along the lines of labeling them by traditional levels. Palutena is probably one of the weakest "deities", especially in Nintendo style. Ness, Shulk, and Rosa IIRC share the same exact tier when you lay 'em out in the traditional style (Universal), but I don't want to drag on for too long. I'll either have to keep it in spoiler posts or you can share that roster thing so I can lay it out on my own, up to you.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I kinda want an Etika and Reggie Mii Fighter combo instantly available in Smash Ultimate

 

[Nonno Umby]

Of course there's a difference, but the fact remains that trying to add any content to a game isn't an effortless endeavor. They didn't just copy Zamus' files and then paste them into another folder, the game's coding had to be directly altered to create the slot, account for an additional character, and for the character to be inserted into it. Then there's the additional work needed to keep the character completely hidden in the retail game without ****ing anything up.

And that would still be wasted man hours/money that could have been easily avoided by just wailing a little, especially when there's also absolutely no rush to begin with (while that also assumes it is just a duplicate Zero Suit Samus who didn't have any Bayo alterations and assets being made yet).

An additional character would have been added due to the Ballot, so creating a new slot was part of their point. If for some reason Bayo would have been blocked (which as I stated seemed incredibly unlikely, and in fact she was licences with no issues) they could have just overwritten that slot with Bowser if they decided to do KK for example. The biggest "difficulty" (again, they had already made 5 additional slots at the time for Mewtwo, Roy, Lucas, Ryu and Cloud, one more wasn't as problematic) was creatinh the slot, and no matter what thay slot would have been filled.

Developing character is a long process, it makes sense to at the very least start the basis before finishing the negotiations, which might take a while. If he started from scratch after the negotiations were over then Bayonetta might have come out a lot later than February 2016.

And about "wasting time" this is something that happens a lot in game development, even in Smash. What about all the time and work wasted on the Ice Climbers on the 3DS, after which they cut them even from the Wii U version after them being workable and playable in that version? I'm sure that was a bigger problem than coping ZSS stat on a slot that would have been used anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wind Mage screams Vaati to me.

White-haired rogue is another story. Impa is no rogue, though the closest thing to being a rogue could just be a reference to the class, which a ninja is a spin-off of. But I doubt it'd be that stretched-out. Especially when you got more obvious ones like Wind Mage. I don't know anything about Elma, so...

And that's assuming Ninja doesn't mean Impa, of course.

 

[New_Dumal]

QUESTION

If this game gets DLC, who do you think would be the perfect final DLC Character?

I swear I'm not kidding...

Mickey Mouse.

I also wanted to see a Smash-only character as the final (someone like Master Hand),but there's no Smash-character good enough yet.

 

[Radical Bones]

It's weird to me that fake leakers put Shovel Knight in their fanfic. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to Smash FOR SHOVELRY, but I just don't see Shovel Knight being the dude they go for.

CommanderVideo maybe? I think an exclusive Nintendo indie game character.

 

[Will]

White-haired rogue?

Spoiler

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Wind Mage screams Vaati to me.

White-haired rogue is another story. Impa is no rogue, though the closest thing to being a rogue could just be a reference to the class, which a ninja is a spin-off of. But I doubt it'd be that stretched-out. Especially when you got more obvious ones like Wind Mage. I don't know anything about Elma, so...

And that's assuming Ninja doesn't mean Impa, of course.

Who else could Ninja be if not Impa?

Elma could be "White haired rogue" as dual-wielding is a skill typically associated with rogues in video games. I'd need someone more knowledgable about Xenoblade X, but are her skills and artes rougelike?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who else could Ninja be if not Impa?

Goemon. Scorpion. At least two off the top of my head.