Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[EchoAegis]

I really do hope that she is more balanced in Ultimate

Well if the invitational is anything to go by, Sakurai was shaking his head after the whole Bayonetta incident so she gonna get nerfed even more.

Proof: https://twitter.com/BearUNLV/status/1006667538900512769

 

[BlondeLombax]

I was like that with Ridley, but his inclusion in Smash actually got me more interested in Metroid, and recently, I purchased and beat the first three games in the original series (Metroid is incredibly cool, but holy **** that back-tracking tho. Some of the secrets are bull**** too).

With characters like Geno and K.Rool however (especially K.Rool, although I'm a bigger Geno fan), I played their games way back when I was a kid. Geno was always my favorite party member, and the DKC series was always so iconic and memorable to me (seriously, who the hell dreams up a gold-bellied crocodile?!). The story/characters of SMRPG were awesome, and the art style of both games was incredibly good.

While I'm indifferent from Geno (I've never played SMRPG), I concur with King K. Rool. Donkey Kong 64 is my favorite game of all time, and he was great in both the story and boss fight. He may not be my most wanted character, but I'd be overjoyed if he were to get in this time around. Besides, he doesn't suffer from what ailed Ridley (heck, he was actually smaller than DK in Super Sluggers) and has a massive following worldwide, so I can see him getting into the roster, either as a base character or DLC.

 

[Blargg888]

By the "anime babe nobody will remember in ten years" thing, I meant from a game like Xenoblade or FE, not a character actually in Smash.

Hell, I used to play Fire Emblem all the time on the Gamecube/Wii, and the only character I remember now is Ike and the red-haired chick on the horse. You could just as easily call her "Erza Scarlet" though and I would believe you, because that's how incredibly generic her design is.

You mean Titania. She was one of the characters in the Tellius games.

Just because one of the Fire Emblem characters has a generic design, that doesn't mean the other couple hundreds of them do.

There are plenty of FE characters that have either unique designs or interesting characteristics. And even if we did get another FE character, it'd probably be one of the Protagonists, who are the most memorable of all.

 

[Wambo]

Well if the invitational is anything to go by, Sakurai was shaking his head after the whole Bayonetta incident so she gonna get nerfed even more.

Proof: https://twitter.com/BearUNLV/status/1006667538900512769

I would feel incredibly uncomfortable/traumatized if I were Sakurai sitting in that audience and everyone was booing at something I made on the screen. I respect how he had the guts to come back up and laugh about it afterwards, I'd never be able to do that.

Dude probably hauled ass back to Nintendo after that and fixed it immediately, haha.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I count it as 65 with the echoes separate, like the SmashBros website.

should be counted as 68 overall, I'd say.

[Q

If you want to count by all separate fighters, the count is 68.
If you count by choosable characters, the count is 66. Pokémon Trainer is a composite character made up of 3 character move sets. So in terms of separate fighters, he counts for three, but in terms of playable characters he counts as one.
I personally look at it this way, at least. Also, yeah, I personally count the echoes in the overall fighter list.

68 if you count each actual individual character.
65 if you count pkmn trainer as 3 characters and dont count the echos.
66 if you count pokemon trainer as one character and count the echos as their own.

So I guess it’s correct to say “the game technically has 68 Fighters with one of them being a three-in-one fighter and three others being counted as officially recognized clones but do not take a numerical spot on the roster thus the roster size being reduced to 65 currently.”

God, that’s a mouth full.

 

[osby]

The sad thing is that if she was a more balanced character in Smash 4, I think this also would have blown over. To me, it seems that a lot of the Bayonetta hate hit after she joined the roster, and while there were definitely people disappointed at her reveal as the final character, I still sensed a lot of cautious optimism for a while until around a month or two after she hit the competitive scene. I really do hope that she is more balanced in Ultimate; although she wasn't my choice for the roster, I do think she's genuinely a very cool character in her own right.

She's super cool. I really didn't knew her prior to her Smash debut so I'm she is in.

And luckily I'm a casual player so I don't have a problem with fighting against her.

 

[ToddCam]

Well obviously the post refers to the climactic return of Todd from Pokemon Snap (is that your username inspiration??), who might be one of the most hype 'possible' additions to the game.

Yes indeed! When I watched the Pokémon anime, my friend and I came up with last names for the characters. We chose Cameron for Todd as a pun on his being a photographer. Wherever I first used it (Serebii maybe?), ToddCameron was taken, so I chose ToddCam, and have been that pretty much at any fan-type message board I've visited.

I can't even imagine how cool it would be to have Todd from Snap as a fighter. I would say it's a close to nil chance. Though Sakurai was at least once aware of it. His vehicle from that game was a trophy in Melee.

 

[EchoAegis]

By the "anime babe nobody will remember in ten years" thing, I meant from a game like Xenoblade or FE, not a character actually in Smash.

Hell, I used to play Fire Emblem all the time on the Gamecube/Wii, and the only character I remember now is Ike and the red-haired chick on the horse. You could just as easily call her "Erza Scarlet" though and I would believe you, because that's how incredibly generic her design is.

I think you're underestimating the popularity for some of these characters. they might not be recognizable to you but the characters from the Fe and Xenoblade Franchise are extremely popular nowadays. A good example is that Feh makes most of the Fe characters popular now even old ones as well.

 

[Jetsurge]

This makes the most sense for a game called "Smash Ultimate", but I'm hoping Sakurai also sees it that way. I don't want another Wii Fit Trainer. I don't want ****ing Chorus Men. Hell, I might've wanted Excitebike or Mach Rider at one point, but characters like K.Rool, Geno, Dee have WAY more priority over that. If Sakurai straight-up ignores them for some anime babe nobody will remember in ten years, that'll make me beyond sad.

We probably won't get Chorus Men. Sakurai didn't add Dixie, Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik and Plusle and Minium to Smash 4.

 

[Wambo]

While I'm indifferent from Geno (I've never played SMRPG), I concur with King K. Rool. Donkey Kong 64 is my favorite game of all time, and he was great in both the story and boss fight. He may not be my most wanted character, but I'd be overjoyed if he were to get in this time around. Besides, he doesn't suffer from what ailed Ridley (heck, he was actually smaller than DK in Super Sluggers) and has a massive following worldwide, so I can see him getting into the roster, either as a base character or DLC.

Donkey Kong 64 is amazing, and it's also one of my favorite games. How people can **** on it is beyond me, because it's one of the greatest games Rare ever put out. So what if it had a lot of collectibles? They were almost all obtainable in creative/unique ways. I could go on and on about it, but if you love it as much as I do, I don't think I have to.

 

[Will]

A good example is that Feh makes most of the Fe characters popular now even old ones as well.

To think Nintendo would develop gacha traps...

 

[KMDP]

I'd argue Titania was one of the more recognisable characters from Path of Radiance. There are a fair few characters who I couldn't tell you the name of without looking them up myself, and Titania is not one of those characters.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think you're underestimating the popularity for some of these characters. they might not be recognizable to you but the characters from the Fe and Xenoblade Franchise are extremely popular nowadays. A good example is that Feh makes most of the Fe characters popular now even old ones as well.

The majority of FE Heroes players probably don't even play the actual games.

 

[Will]

The majority of FE Heroes players probably don't even play the actual games.

They probably think it's an anime. I don't blame them

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

 

[StormC]

Donkey Kong 64 is amazing, and it's also one of my favorite games. How people can **** on it is beyond me, because it's one of the greatest games Rare ever put out. So what if it had a lot of collectibles? They were almost all obtainable in creative/unique ways. I could go on and on about it, but if you love it as much as I do, I don't think I have to.

I think it's a boring, tedious, pale imitation of Banjo-Kazooie with none of its charm.

But it did give us some nice K. Rool kutscenes.

 

[Wambo]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

"Super Special Awesome Smash Bros. Ultimater" is coming out soon and Geno still isn't in it, but Waluigi is in and he has five clones.

 

[Blargg888]

I just realized, a andteam could be named "Double Dragon"!
I should've thought of this before.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think it's a boring, tedious, pale imitation of Banjo-Kazooie with none of its charm.

But it did give us some nice K. Rool kutscenes.

This is basically my thoughts on Banjo Tooie.

 

[ToddCam]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

Well, assuming a positive status of humanity, I imagine that gaming is probably a primary spectator sport. I think, again assuming basic egalitarian existence, sport, science, and art are the primary career paths. There are so many variables! But if Nintendo happened to stay extant in for another 80 years, I can see Smash still being around. I imagine though, Sakurai has retired from being director, unless we're really in a transhumanist utopia.

 

[EchoAegis]

The majority of FE Heroes players probably don't even play the actual games.

I would agree with you there because tbh I've only played two of them myself (Awakening, Echoes) But that doesn't mean a character can't still be popular from other games including them.

 

[Kamikazek]

Fair enough! It was an admittedly lame idea I had that could only be come up with by a person with no connection to the character. I'd also have some strong words to say if Isaac were just a Mii Fighter costume (even if he were a specific build of Mii Swordfighter that was referred to as "Isaac" by the announcer).

Character based custom Mii presets itself isn't a terrible idea. But in order to avoid this very issue of backlash from fans of that character it might be better to make them Mii's of characters already in the roster. Like a swordfighter called "Mii Link", a Gunner named "Mii Samus" ect.. Either that or use some deeply obscure characters to minimize backlash, like minor enemy mooks or the like, so that you're in "wow, it's crazy this is a character in any sense!" territory.

...though tbh my most wanted newcomer (Ray MK I) would work fine as a Mii gunner costume, and my overall favorite Nintendo character(Lin) would work decent as one too(she's too obscure even for that though, lol), and I wouldn't mind at all. Hell I really like Geno and I'd be down with his costume getting a name and lines, I'm already satisfied with costume we got anyway! I'm waaaaay more lax about character representation than most people though.

 

[StormC]

This is basically my thoughts on Banjo Tooie.

Hey me too!

I just find DK64 and Tooie so bloated and unfocused. Kazooie is lean and so easily replayable. I have a harder time revisiting DK64 and Tooie as an adult and not getting bored (though I think Tooie is a good deal better than DK64).

 

[Zinith]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

Half the roster is clones of Yoshi

 

[UltimateWario]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

In 2098 every action will be coated in 85,000 layers of irony so all video games will just be kickstarters that everyone supports ironically and nobody actually buys. Video games will not exist as interactive media and just as scams that people give money to as a "joke".

Oh and Waluigi still isn't in.

 

[BlondeLombax]

You know, through all this discussion and debate, I'm surprised nobody's made mention of wanting to see stupid clips like these to start popping up online when the game comes out.

I swear, that dopey smile on Falcon's face at the end is what does it for me. Bless you, Lythero.

 

[KMDP]

Here’s another question: the page is currently at 2098. So let’s say it’s the Year 2098. A new century is coming. Where is Smash and what does it look like?

SakuraiBot has made Smash so casual that the game practically plays itself, yet people still somehow find a way to make it competitive. Even so, people still prefer Melee, even almost a century later. There are over 2000 characters, even though a lot of them haven't been in a game other than Smash in over 80 years. 60% of the roster are either Pokémon or Fire Emblem characters, but that's only to be expected since there are more than 6000 Pokémon and 80 installments of FE. Captain Falcon is still the only F-Zero character, despite demand for at least Black Shadow dating back 80 years in the past. The most broken character is Meta Bayonetta, who is worse than Meta Knight and Bayonetta combined, and also has Cloud's Limit Gauge to power her up even more.

There are rumours that Waluigi will finally be made playable this time. But SakuraiBot is a computer and doesn't so easily forget those two guys on twitter 80 years ago...

EDIT: Realising now I should have used SakurAI instead of SakuraiBot... eh...

 

[StormC]

If there's another ballot and K. Rool, BDee, Isaac, etc. are in this game, Waluigi is going to crush it.

 

[Jak_spoon]

edit: I FORGOT ISAAC ON THIS LIST. holy jeebus isaac's support was big back in the olden days

...we’re still here... loud and proud...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey me too!

I just find DK64 and Tooie so bloated and unfocused. Kazooie is lean and so easily replayable. I have a harder time revisiting DK64 and Tooie as an adult and not getting bored (though I think Tooie is a good deal better than DK64).

Now see.

I'd rank DK64 and Banjo Kazooie as equals as I feel each excels on different things.

Tooie just feels bloated and over complicated. I didn't like it much.

Kind of puts me in an odd spot because I'm not a huge fan of Banjo Kazooie like several others here. I like it, but I feel its a tad overrated.

Grunty spinoff when tho?

 

[KMDP]

...we’re still here... loud and proud...

Or waiting quietly... patiently... for the Sun to rise again on our Dark Horse...

 

[UltimateWario]

Or waiting quietly... patiently... for the Sun to rise again on our Dark Horse...

What's Camelot even do these days? They still making Mario sports?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say though.

Now that Ridley is in and Pokemon Trainer is back...

I think Isaac is my new most wanted barring no hopers like Phoenix Wright.

 

[Zinith]

Half the roster is clones of Yoshi

I would've convinced the world to not put Yoshi on the backburner by the time I die. However, I seem to have overshot and by the time 2098 comes around Yoshi already became the world's largest religion and now almost all aspects of culture is compelled to represent Yoshi in everything...

 

[Blargg888]

Half the roster is clones of Yoshi

Psh, that's baby talk. Allow me to fix this.


All characters on the roster are clones of Yoshi, that each act like the characters he replaced.

Pichu Yoshi hurts himself.
Snake Yoshi's eggs explode.
Roy Yoshi is just Yoshi but on fire.
Daisy Yoshi is Melee Yoshi
Young Link is Baby Yoshi
Toon Link is Yarn Yoshi.
Jigglypuff Yoshi is the Red Yoshi from NSMBU.
Greninja Yoshi is the Blue Yoshi from NSMBU.
Ridley Yoshi is just Yoshi, but he's super violent.
Kirby Yoshi can copy other fighters neutral Bs with Egg Lay.
Bayonetta Yoshi is just Yoshi but with a gun.
Shulk Yoshi has Baby Mario Arts. Which are just Monado arts but with Baby Mario instead of the Monado.
Ice Climbers Yoshi is just the cyan and Pink Yoshi as a tag team.
Pokémon Trainer Yoshi is just a tiny Yoshi, a regular Yoshi, and a big Yoshi.
Dark Pit Yoshi is Boshi.
Yoshi Yoshi is so Yoshi that you can't even handle the sheer amount of Yoshi that is.

And so on, and so forth.
Thus we have: Super Yoshi Bros. Island.

 

[EchoAegis]

What's Camelot even do these days? They still making Mario sports?

Imagine we got a Camelot character sadly not Issac but I think you guys would be hyped for him as well

Spoiler

 

[Jetsurge]

Apparently Bayo and Cloud were started just 2 weeks after the ballot started. This supports my theory that the ballot was being used for this game. After all the Switch was in development at that point and it's a no brainer to get a Smash Bros game on it.

For those who don't know Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Cloud and Bayo DLC character slots were added on patch 1.0.6 (which was released 2 weeks after Ballot was opened), the last character slot to be added was Corrin and that was done on patch 1.0.8

— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) July 2, 2018

 

[PSIGuy]

I'd hope in 2098 they'd have done at least one reboot, soft-resetting the series to try a new direction. I want to see what Smash Bros could do if they didn't feel the need to bring back as many characters as possible. I guess I want the antithesis of Ultimate; throw everything out and start from scratch, make new crazy roster choices and reimagine must-haves. I know people are attached to what they already know, but the opposite - being totally lost in a roster and having to find a new main - would be exciting.

 

[Jak_spoon]

i'm enjoying this because it's kind of the wake-up call people need to remind themselves "Yes, Nintendo is indeed a company"

What frustrates me about this is that I brought this up a few times back in like the 700 pages trying to get some people to figure out why Nintendo Added her (I completely thought she was rigged) because I thought it would help indicate towards Smash 5 but I could never get a stupid conversation going because all the bayo fans would call me a whiny salty baby that needed to grow up.

Seriously where is Roger I want to chew him out.

But whatever every reveal has just proven my roster to be correct more and more. I shall wait in silence and frustration.

 

[UltimateWario]

Imagine we got a Camelot character sadly not Issac but I think you guys would be hyped for him as well

Spoiler

Blue Mario has been my most wanted newcomer since Smash SNES. We'll never get him at this rate...