Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Not all of the newcomers are going to be ballot winners, guys.

That doesn't mean most won't be popular characters.

 

[MainJPW]

DK doesn't need new reps.

Yes it does.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Despite being "relevant" this Ballot upset brings something interesting to light. Speculating the Ballot was used for Ultimate more than 4 (which we don't know for sure yet, just speculating) I'm not sure Elma would have really been a heavily supported character. Not to mention she would have little to no representation from American and European voters as the game didn't come out until December 2015 there.

And honestly, not knowing it would be used for a future Smash game, I don't think the majority of Japanese fans would vote her over their fan favorites that have existed much longer.

Anyway I was just pointing out that this Ballot upset doesn't bode in her favor. Her best chance still remains that Sakurai really wanted to include more Xenoblade representation.

I don't expect the whole roster to be ballot winners anyway, what elma lacks in popularity she makes up for in relevance, plus we know that sakurai likes the Xenoblade series a lot and she offers a lot of moveset potential which has always been a major thing to sakurai, the smash 4 newcomers especially were notably gimmicky

 

[True Blue Warrior]

DK doesn't need new reps.

No franchise "needs" a new character. This argument is frankly irrelevant.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

As someone who saw people do this with Ridley last game, and then proceeded to do it himself when K Rool became a Mii costume...

...it's over. Waluigi is an Assist Trophy. I understand people love the character but anyone who takes any of these videos seriously is only going to disappoint themselves.

Honestly leaning more towards assist trophy myself, what i meant about the previous post was just that it was interesting to think about.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. Saying that a franchise "needs more reps" is heavily opinionated. Not everyone wants a new DKC character.

That doesn't mean most won't be popular characters.

But, some people are taking this to the extreme and thinking that every newcomer is going to be a fan favorite/highly requested character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well Dixie was planned for it, and actually I still hoped for a Diddy/Dixie tag team.

That's still not "desperately needs more reps since Brawl"

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

No he didn't.

All points that Waluigi might be coming blatantly disregard his official disconfirmation.

There are no good points on why Waluigi will be coming.

Honestly leaning more to assist trophy. But then again, you never know what Sakurai's up too.

 

[RileyXY1]

No franchise "needs" a new character. This argument is frankly irrelevant.

That's what I've been saying. It's heavily opinionated to say that a franchise needs a new character.

 

[MainJPW]

No it doesn't.

Wrong. It at least needs Dixie, Cranky or a New Funky Mode. They can't ignore Tropical Freeze bro.

 

[Vintage Creep]

That's still not "desperately needs more reps since Brawl"

So dense. Since Smash 4 then.

 

[Danpal65]

It isn't unreasonable to say that some series should probably have more characters in Smash I would argue

 

[RileyXY1]

Wrong. It at least needs Dixie, Cranky or a New Funky Mode. They can't ignore Tropical Freeze bro.

You are being heavily opinionated. I'm fine with DKC only having two reps.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Not all of the newcomers are going to be ballot winners, guys.

It's important to note that most likely, not every character will be a ballot pick.

We will still probably have a few promotional and Sakurai picks.

It's just gonna be a balance.

(Same as Melee, Brawl and Smash 4, honestly.)

I don't expect the whole roster to be ballot winners anyway, what elma lacks in popularity she makes up for in relevance, plus we know that sakurai likes the Xenoblade series a lot and she offers a lot of moveset potential which has always been a major thing to sakurai, the smash 4 newcomers especially were notably gimmicky

While I generalllllly agree, problem is we have nothing to base it on either way. So far all three newcomers are fan favorites that we can only assume did better than decent in the ballot. Plus the fact that we got all returning veterans?

For now I agree we won't get 100% ballot picks, but how much does that matter if we look at a small pool of newcomers? For example I'm only predicting 10 new characters, and so 75% ballot picks only means 2-3 non ballot picks. Just some of my thoughts! I'm really excited to see who the next newcomer revealed is to discuss whether or not they got in due to the ballot or a Sakurai pick.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So, about the Waluigi post i made earlier, i don't think he's coming, it was just a slight possibility. and i could really care less if he gets in.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So dense. Since Smash 4 then.

So I'm dense in saying it's not in desperate need since the game it got a new character?

You are being heavily opinionated. I'm fine with DKC only having two reps.

You know what's also true? You're being heavily opinionated too. I don't like the "need" argument either but I don't think it's fair to dismiss them because it's fine in your opinion

 

[Jetsurge]

What should the Pokemon Sun and Moon stage be?
I was thinking of:

Melemele Island Beachfront

Battle Royal Dome

Ultraspace

 

[Danpal65]

What should the Pokemon Sun and Moon stage be?
I was thinking of:

I think Ultra Space / Ultra Wormhole Ride would make the best stage as we could visit different Ultra Spaces and represent the Ultra Beasts through stage hazards/bosses throughout the stage (geez said "ultra" a few times there)

 

[MainJPW]

You are being heavily opinionated. I'm fine with DKC only having two reps.

Just like you're fine with no more Pokemon reps I take it?

 

[Jetsurge]

You are being heavily opinionated. I'm fine with DKC only having two reps.

DKC having 2 reps while FE has 6 is a crime. It needs both K. Rool and Dixie.

 

[RileyXY1]

DKC having 2 reps while FE has 6 is a crime. It needs both K. Rool and Dixie.

Once again, you're being heavily opinionated. DKC doesn't need reps as much as any other series. And, I've always hated the "needs more reps" argument.

 

[Zinith]

All this "rep" talk and here I am hoping for one more Yoshi "anything." A new character, a new stage, a new AT, new music, anything...

 

[Cosmic77]

I wish people would stop acting like the ballot is a huge game changer. Sakurai isn't oblivious to what the community wants, and I doubt the ballot was an eye-opener for him. Even back in 2012 when he was starting development on Smash 4, I'm sure he was aware of the support for Ridley and K. Rool. He just didn't feel like they were good choices at the time.

After doing this for so long, Sakurai has an idea of what we want, and he doesn't need a special poll or ballot to reaffirm his suspicions.

 

[Zeox]

Right. I personally prefer Masked Man.

He would be pretty cool and have a lot of potential for interesting movesets, with a lightsaber, megaman gun and cool robo bat wings...
But I don't think I would bring myself to hurt him...

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

DKC having 2 reps while FE has 6 is a crime. It needs both K. Rool and Dixie.

Can we just all agree there's too much fire emblem? I personally don't like the games, and most of the reps feel a little to flavour of the month for me

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Even back in 2012 when he was starting development on Smash 4, I'm sure he was aware of the support for Ridley and K. Rool.

Was he truly? If his statement about Mega Man was any indication, he seemed to be relying on the pre-Brawl poll in order to gauge Smash demands for Smash 4 which would have meant K. Rool wouldn't have probably done well because people were rallying for Diddy for Brawl.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I wish people would stop acting like the ballot is a huge game changer. Sakurai isn't oblivious to what the community wants, and I doubt the ballot was a huge eye-opener for him. Even back in 2012 when he was starting development on Smash 4, I'm sure he was aware of the support for Ridley and K. Rool. He just didn't feel like they were good choices at the time.

After doing this for so long, Sakurai has an idea of what we want, and he doesn't need a special poll or ballot to reaffirm his suspicions.

My problem with this line of thinking is why even do a ballot then ??? :/

Honestly I always thought the ballot was a bad idea lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Can we just all agree there's too much fire emblem? I personally don't like the games, and most of the reps feel a little to flavour of the month for me

There isn't enough Fire Emblem representation until more items and ATs appear. FE Representation is just poorly balanced

 

[MainJPW]

And, I've always hated the "needs more reps" argument.

DK needs Dixie or K. Rool. You just haven't come to accept this glorious fact yet.

He would be pretty cool and have a lot of potential for interesting movesets, with a lightsaber, megaman gun and cool robo bat wings...
But I don't think I would bring myself to hurt him...

I know what you mean...but we're already beating up Lucas. Look at what he's been through.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think Ultra Space / Ultra Wormhole Ride would make the best stage as we could visit different Ultra Spaces and represent the Ultra Beasts through stage hazards/bosses throughout the stage (geez said "ultra" a few times there)

What if Pokefloats was part of an Ultraspace stage?

 

[Cosmic77]

Was he truly? If his statement about Mega Man was any indication, he seemed to be relying on the pre-Brawl poll in order to gauge Smash demands for Smash 4 which would have meant K. Rool wouldn't have probably done well because people were rallying for Diddy for Brawl.

A majority of Smash 4's newcomers weren't even highly requested during Brawl. Instead of Ridley, Geno, and Krystal, we got Rosalina, WFT, and Palutena. Heck, quite a few of the newcomers didn't even exist until after Brawl was released.

The only characters who might have gotten in thanks to Brawl are Villager, Mega Man, Little Mac, and maybe Bowser Jr. The rest were all promotional or highly relevant at the time.

 

[osby]

Can we just all agree there's too much fire emblem? I personally don't like the games, and most of the reps feel a little to flavour of the month for me

Nope, I don't have a problem with it now that Zelda and Pokémon has more characters.

 

[NotLiquid]

Missed out on the whole "Ballot is fake" discussion a while ago, and my first thought is...

"So what?"

Bayonetta and Cloud began development before the ballot actually ended. Yeah, no duh. Did anyone actually believe that development on a new character would only begin once the ballot would've closed? We wouldn't have gotten a new character until late 2016 if that were the case. For being a fan voted poll the period in which it was open was extremely long and extremely sketch - not just because it's not optimal for development but because a large majority of traffic that this kind of poll would've gained would only be the most evident within the first few days of being active. Most people who voted for the character they wanted would have only done so in the first few days, unless you're one of those character loyalists who came back every day to vote for your favorite character, which isn't reliable as far as results go. There was always going to be an invisible cutoff period and it was always going to be incredibly early. Beyond that, having it close in late October feels especially more telling now given that the project outline for the next entry would've been proposed around this particular period.

On top of that there's no reason to believe that there was an ulterior motive in bootstrapping Bayonetta of all characters into Smash when the original game was only a modest success and the sequel was a financial dud for Nintendo months before the ballot was even in consideration. Who would realistically believe that this kind of ballot existed to push Bayonetta of all characters?

This is why I never believed for a second that Sakurai and Nintendo would come straight out and say that a character inclusion was ultimately dictated by the ballot. If the idea was to obfuscate a result it would've been far more believable to make the claim that Cloud was the ballot winner, and in fact, I'm convinced that his inclusion was pretty much foresight on their part. They mentioned that they'd been receiving plenty of requests for Final Fantasy characters (and bear in mind the ballot also asked you to list the series/game they're from), but that Cloud edged them all out. Why would they position Bayonetta as a "ballot winner", especially under such specific results, but not Cloud, who would ideally have been way more popular? And yet that's what they did - not only saying outright that she was the overall top pick, but that she even topped the charts in very specific regions.

Even setting aside all of this is the simple fact that being #1 on the ballot doesn't guarantee an inclusion. This is where that *realizable characters anecdote comes into play. I see no reason to believe that Bayonetta didn't have a significant ballot presence, and trying to argue otherwise to me seems like a whole bunch of looking for controversy, no matter how early she was planned. If the parameter data was patched into Smash that early but literally nothing else, it's equally fair to assume that they were hedging their bets based on the early ballot feedback because it's likely they wouldn't even have successfully negotiated the characters to include them. Between having to negotiate characters and actually make them, they can't just dawdle on it. Third party characters in particular take a long time to figure out.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

There isn't enough Fire Emblem representation until more items and ATs appear. FE Representation is just poorly balanced

Honestly, no matter what you do you can't please everyone.

 

[T-Hell]

I don't like the "needs more reps" argument either, instead I prefer the "this character deserves/should be in the game" argument. With that said, both Dixie and K.Rool deserve to be in the game, preferably in a superior rol than a mere trophy, although playable status would be best.

 

[Jetsurge]

Nope, I don't have a problem with it now that Zelda and Pokémon has more characters.

Zelda has equal....

 

[Untouch]

DK deserves more representation in general.
It's hard to defend SSB4 having 8 remixes of the same song, no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

DK deserves more representation in general.
It's hard to defend SSB4 having 8 remixes of the same song, no matter how you try to spin it.

Clearly it's a good song.

 

[osby]

Zelda has equal....

Has more characters than the previous entry.

 

[Krysco]

No idea if this has been brought up or not (I'm like 100 pages behind) but

Taunts universally seem to have low faf which in simple terms means they can be cancelled very early on. Certain taunts throughout the series have already had this, namely Bayo's but now it seems to apply to all taunts. This can actually be seen on the main website with Toon Link's video.

ANYWAYS, that's all well and good and to the uninformed, this may seem like just a neat little addition. But oh no, this is much more than that. This feature alone adds what is probably the best taunt combination in the entire series. Thanks to this addition, it is now possible to say "Hands off my piece of cake"

The only other ones I can think of are faster versions of "Come fight me" and "Come on, show me your moves" and nowhere near as good as Falco's but there's "I'm really feeling this is the Monado's power/I'm really feeling now it's Shulk time"

During my catching up last night I saw a post asking about the top 10 characters people are wanting to main. I've already got 6 of mine in my signature but to join in late on that post: with honourable mentions to ultridley:

I also saw Tellius FE talk between Troykv and KMDP :3 I too started with RD before playing PoR and honestly, you don't miss out on too terribly much but doing it that way. Most of it is just wondering how so many characters know each other and then there's small things like the circumstance of the Black Knight and Oliver. Can definitely recommend RD if you can acquire a copy (totally not bias or anything, ignore the title~). Was reading that RD stuff at the end of my shift so it's still fresh in my mind and damnit Troykv! You got me thinking of a potential moveset for Micaiah again!

Spoiler: This post is long enough

She could have a charging mechanic much like Robin's Thunder but with Light, Ellight, Shine and then either Purge (super long range magic), Valaura (poisoning magic) or Nosferatu since that was a light tome in RD. Rexaura Corona could be her final smash since Rexaura is the strongest light tome and Corona is her tertiary class skill much like Ike's is Aether (granted, it's not unique to Micaiah in RD since Laura, Rhys, Oliver, Lekain and the 2nd last final boss have it) She could make use of her signature ability Sacrifice which harms her but heals another. That may sound pointless in a game like Smash but it would have its uses. Namely in teams since you could be at low % and your partner at high % and could even it out but even in 1v1s. If you're within the percent range of a kill confirm, Sacrifice could take you out of it so your opponent would have to land a raw kill move which is usually more difficult. Alternatively, you could lower your opponents % if they get past a kill confirm % if Micaiah happened to get one. With Sacrifice and Nosferatu, Micaiah would have the unique ability to swap % both ways with characters. She could also make use of staves. Heal, Mend, Physic, Recover, Fortify Matrona and the Ashera staff could be used for general healing though that may be a bit redundant with Sacrifice. Rescue could force an opponent close to you. Rewarp could be a recovery much like Palutena's or Mewtwo's. Ward could increase defenses kinda like Shulk's Shield Monado arte. Sleep could be a long range option to...well put the opponent to sleep. Restore could cure sleep or dizziness. Silence could...idk prevent the use of special moves for a bit? I'll commend anyone who can find a use for the Torch, Unlock or Hammerene staves. Alternative option for a recovery is taking another page (Ha) from Robin and using a spell to propel herself upwards. Could also add Sothe somewhere in there. Final Smash or a unique defensive option since he starts with the Guard skill or even just victory poses. And while it's overdone, Micaiah could have a counter, not specifically for being an FE character but because she has foresight in a similar vein to Shulk. Granted, her foresight is usually way further in the future but it could work. Also, her dodges could be her awesome twirl animation for when she dodges in RD. Could also make her smash attack charging animations the same as her critical start up animations in RD since tome users take for bloody ever to do a critical.

The only thing I know about no-RD Micaiah is that she uses dark tomes in Awakening cuz light wasn't an option. No knowledge on Heroes or Fates Micaiah if the latter even exists.

Tl;dr Micaiah would be a cool fighter although a lot of my ideas are ripped from Robin.