Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hinata]

If everyone could vote honestly 1 and done they would. But if everyone is going to cheat... then you have to cheat to win. It sucks but it's the nature of the game. If Nintendo was so concerned about the ballot being botted or something, they shouldn't have made it so easy. Force people to vote with Miiverse accounts or something.

Yeah, the ballot was rigged from the start even without this new information, because thousands of people just spammed votes for their character of choice. I guarantee you every popular character had 100+ more votes than they should've because someone kept voting for them over and over again.

Hell, when Bayonetta was revealed, a few people in her social thread admitted they voted for her more than once, myself included. The ballot was bull**** from the get-go because there was nothing stopping anyone from just spam-voting for King K. Rool or something.

People cry foul because "OH BAYONETTA DIDN'T ACTUALLY WIN THE BALLOT HAHA!!!! IT WAS RIGGED THE WHOLE TIME!!!", but this isn't news. We've known it was rigged, because we were the ones who rigged it.

 

[StormC]

The Smash Community (or rather, the hardcore Smash Community: i.e. Smash Boards, GameFAQS, Reddit and 4Chan), is ultimately a small fish in a big pond. A few thousand people (maybe as high as 10 thousand) compared to the 1.8 million.

The Reddit poll for the Smash Ballot had 10 thousand votes alone. If you go on Tumblr you can see Smash Bros. posts with hundreds of thousands of notes. Sites like /v/ gets tens of thousands of visits daily.

I think you're heavily underestimating how big online fandom is.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Final thoughts on the whole "Ballot is a sham" thing:

The phrase, "among realizable characters," should've been a dead giveaway that the Ballot was rigged in some way, shape, or form. "Among realizable characters" can be absolutely anything, and is similar to phrases used for misleading statistics (most of, more than, less than, etc). It could also give credence to the Ballot being turned into a coverup of sorts.

That being said, Omega Tyrant made a great point about the ballot data's use being shifted from Smash 4 DLC to Smash Ultimate because the Wii U was a dying console that couldn't be saved. If that is true, then I think we could see a lot more DLC than just 7 characters as:

• The Switch is a smash hit (pun completely intended), selling more in a little over a year than the Wii U did in 6 years, and is well on it's way to sell the same, if not more than the Wii did in it's second year. (Sources 1 and 2). The Wii U was a commercial failure and the 3DS was beginning to show it's age around the time DLC for Smash Bros. ended (when development for additional DLC characters would have continued). If Sakurai and his team were already working on Smash Bros. Ultimate, which it's confirmed they were, it would make sense to shift focus to another project on Nintendo's new console to bolster it's first party lineup (mind you, at this time no one knew the Switch would be a success, it was a gamble to shift focus but it ultimately [pun intended] worked out).
• Development for the game is consolidated on one console, meaning that development time will likely be faster and potentially cheaper (I don't know the ins and outs of game development, so don't quote me on cost).
• Nintendo has made an amazing display of content updates for it's current games, such as the Master Trials and Champions' Ballad expansions to Breath of the Wild, The two Battle Pack add-ons to Pokken Tournament DX, the recent Octo Expansion to Splatoon 2, and the upcoming Torna: The Golden Country expansion to Xenoblade Chronicles 2, the first of which added substantial new content to the main game, the second of which added additional fighters and support Pokémon, and the latter two of which added completely new story modes comparable to the original story modes of those games. I can't speak for Torna: The Golden Country as it isn't out yet, but Octoling Expansion surpasses the original story mode of Splatoon 2 by leaps and bounds, and for the amount of content it adds $20 is a steal.
• While they are third party games, the Donkey Kong expansion to Mario and Rabbids Kingdom Battle and the three DLC packs for Fire Emblem Warriors are also worth mentioning, for adding new challenges and new story content and adding a total of 9 additional History Mode maps (with 100+ new missions and new mission types) and 9 additional characters with new support conversations and abilities (even if 5 of them were clones).
• Not to mention the variety of free content updates to games like Super Mario Odyssey in the form of Balloon World and additional costumes, Splatoon 2 in the form of new weapons, maps, and balance changes, and ARMs in the form of new characters and balance changes.

All that being said, I think we'll be seeing a lot of DLC for this game. At least double the amount of DLC that we saw for Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS, if not more. This leans more towards speculation, but I think the the Ballot will also be used for Smash Ultimate DLC, as characters who maybe weren't high priority (fan demand exists, but isn't overwhelming like Ridley) or who may be too difficult to negotiate for the base roster (like Banjo Kazooie or Sora) will be added alongside newer characters (like Rex and Pyra, Springman, a Three Houses representative, etc.). I think a roster with anywhere from 90 - 100 characters after DLC isn't out of the question.

I'm really excited for this game. This will truly be the ultimate Smash Brothers game.

 

[Wambo]

Well, yeah. But would they have voted for Geno (and done so well, if the comment box meant anything) over their guy?

I'm British (a European Country), and I know nothing about Geno except that he is a puppet and appeared in Super Mario RPG, so I don't care for him one way or the other. Had I voted for him (and I didn't) any vote I could have cast would have been extremely shallow, and I was pretty casual back during the ballot.

Being well known in the Smash Community doesn't mean a whole lot when there were millions of votes.

Sometimes it's also not just about knowing who the character is, but everything down to their name, their design, what they can do, etc. I know a few people who've never fully played through SMRPG or even know what the game is about, but they still root for Geno because of how cool he looks. Same argument applied to Ridley before he was in. Some people never played through the Prime series, but played Super Metroid at least long enough to know who he was and his importance, and vice versa. He was Samus' arch-nemesis, and a kick-ass dragon.

Also, Geno's design EMBODIES the "classic Square" look. It's very nostalgic in a certain way.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yeah, the ballot was rigged from the start even without this new information, because thousands of people just spammed votes for their character of choice. I guarantee you every popular character had 100+ more votes than they should've because someone kept voting for them over and over again.

Hell, when Bayonetta was revealed, a few people in her social thread admitted they voted for her more than once, myself included. The ballot was bull**** from the get-go because there was nothing stopping anyone from just spam-voting for King K. Rool or something.

People cry foul because "OH BAYONETTA DIDN'T ACTUALLY WIN THE BALLOT HAHA!!!! IT WAS RIGGED THE WHOLE TIME!!!", but this isn't news. We've known it was rigged, because we were the ones who rigged it.

i wish i wasn't depressed at the time because boy golly I would have rigged the ballot so hard

 

[Slavic]

To back up your statement about losing things in translation due to coming from Japanese. Both English and Japanese can be very vague languages. When you translate one to another you compound this issue.

Also, anyone who voted more than once on the ballot has no right to complain about this turn of events. Turnabout is fairplay, after all.

lmao when I found out how easy it was to vote multiple times it clicked that it wasn't a straight popularity contest because the results must have been a mess. I am a bad person, and looking back the 'only one vote per person' disclaimer makes me feel a bit bad.

But I thought dissenting opinions were welcomed here. lol

I mean no one's telling you to stop or to leave. The replies are just dissenting against your opinions in turn

Forgive me if this is obvious, but in "Pic related", is Pic referring to picture? I can't figure out what connection Skull Kid or Dark Matter has to pictures.

Edit: Post 300! That's about 17 posts per year!

Well obviously the post refers to the climactic return of Todd from Pokemon Snap (is that your username inspiration??), who might be one of the most hype 'possible' additions to the game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Final thoughts on the whole "Ballot is a sham" thing:

The phrase, "among realizable characters," should've been a dead giveaway that the Ballot was rigged in some way, shape, or form. "Among realizable characters" can be absolutely anything, and gives credence to the Ballot being turned into a coverup of sorts.

That being said, Omega Tyrant made a great point about the ballot data's use being shifted from Smash 4 DLC to Smash Ultimate because the Wii U was a dying console that couldn't be saved. If that is true, then I think we could see a lot more DLC than just 7 characters as:

• The Switch is a smash hit (pun completely intended), selling more in a little over a year than the Wii U did in 6 years, and is well on it's way to sell the same, if not more than the Wii did in it's second year. (Sources 1 and 2). The Wii U was a commercial failure and the 3DS was beginning to show it's age around the time DLC for Smash Bros. ended (when development for additional DLC characters would have continued).
• Development for the game is consolidated on one console, meaning that development time will likely be faster.
• Nintendo has made an amazing display of content updates for it's current games, such as Master Trials and Champions' Ballad expansions to Breath of the Wild, The two Battle Pack add-ons to Pokken Tournament DX, the recent Octo Expansion to Splatoon 2, and the upcoming Torna: The Golden Country expansion to Xenoblade Chronicles 2, the first of which added substantial new content to the main game, the second of which added additional fighters and support Pokémon, and the latter two of which added completely new story modes comparable to the original story modes of those games. I can't speak for Torna: The Golden Country as it isn't out yet, but Octoling Expansion surpasses the original story mode of Splatoon 2 by leaps and bounds, and for the amount of content it adds $20 is a steal.
• While they are third party games, the Donkey Kong expansion to Mario and Rabbids Kingdom Battle and the three DLC packs for Fire Emblem Warriors are also worth mentioning, for adding new challenges and new story content and adding a total of 9 additional History Mode maps and 9 additional characters with new support conversations and abilities (even if 5 of them were clones).
• Not to mention the variety of free content updates to games like Super Mario Odyssey in the form of Balloon World and additional costumes, Splatoon 2 in the form of new weapons, maps, and balance changes, and ARMs in the form of new characters and balance changes.

All that being said, I think we'll be seeing a lot of DLC for this game. At least double the amount of DLC that we saw for Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS, if not more. This leans more towards speculation, but I think the the Ballot will also be used for Smash Ultimate DLC, as characters who maybe weren't high priority (fan demand exists, but isn't overwhelming like Ridley) or who may be too difficult to negotiate for the base roster (like Banjo Kazooie or Sora) will be added alongside newer characters (like Rex and Pyra, Springman, a Three Houses representative, etc.). I think a roster with anywhere from 90 - 100 characters after DLC isn't out of the question.

I'm really excited for this game. This will truly be the ultimate Smash Brothers game.

and on the seventh day the lord said amen

like, I'm going to start quoting this post for any complaints about smash ult lol.

 

[Makai Wars]

I think the end result of the ballot was EVERYONE IS HERE as returning vets were clearly some of the most requested characters.

What really matters is whether or not we get some of the other popular votes like K. Rool, Geno and Ashely (or whoever else, I don't know). Sakurai said we're not getting many newcomers, so the ones we actually DO get should count. I think that means we should get only the highest requested ones and leave things like "wacky hardware representative!" and "cuh-rayzee retro character NO ONE saw coming!!!" to the wayside and focus entirely on what people have been begging for for years. If that's what happens I think it doesn't matter that Nintendo mislead us with the ballot, we'll have gotten way more than just one winner.

 

[GaroMaster]

While I'm not the biggest fan of the wording, he's right you know.

Apologies for the wording. Didn't mean for it to come off as aggressive.
I edited it in my post, but I think the word I was looking for was petty. As much as somebody can get mad over a character's exclusion, I just can't reasonably think how one can be dissapointed with a Smash that:
1.) Adds in all the returning veterans as well many of them getting much needed tweaks and redesigns.
2.) Has the majority of returning stages from across Smash's history as well as new ones.
3.) Highly requested newcomers in the form of Ridley, Daisy, and Inkling with more to come.
4.) A Stage Hazard toggle as well as Omega and Battlefield forms.
5.) GameCube controller support.
6.) Tweaked physics and mechanics that allows for a faster and more offensive metagame.
7.) Improved UI in the form of choosing alts, stock count after every kill, off-screen map, and character specific meters.
Maybe I'm looking at it through rose tinted goggles because Sakurai always packs every Smash game to the brim with content, but with Ultimate, it really feels like he is listening to us and disregarding all of this just because a certain character was not included is disingenuous, in my opinion.
I get why it happens. Smash is a character driven game and chances are, there will be some characters that you have a passion in. It's only natural to feel disappointment if they're not included. I just think there are healthier ways of going about it than be angry about it and complain. That's just me, though.

 

[KMDP]

Sometimes it's also not just about knowing who the character is, but everything down to their name, their design, what they can do, etc. I know a few people who've never fully played through SMRPG or even know what the game is about, but they still root for Geno because of how cool he looks. Same argument applied to Ridley before he was in. Some people never played through the Prime series, but played Super Metroid at least long enough to know who he was and his importance, and vice versa. He was Samus' arch-nemesis, and a kick-*** dragon.

Also, Geno's design EMBODIES the "classic Square" look. It's very nostalgic in a certain way.

I will admit Geno looks interesting! I don't know how he'd play (though if Sakurai is to be believed, a certain amount of his ideas for Geno went into the Mii Gunner), though.

I actually have a question, as a Geno fan, if Geno's Mii Costume was used as a preset build for the Mii Gunner in Online Play (with a specific name and voice tied to him) that can also be used in Offline Play, would you accept that? Just... curious... because I think preset builds are a good way to solve the 'Miis online' issue.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I think the end result of the ballot was EVERYONE IS HERE as returning vets were clearly some of the most requested characters.

What really matters is whether or not we get some of the other popular votes like K. Rool, Geno and Ashely (or whoever else, I don't know). Sakurai said we're not getting many newcomers, so the ones we actually DO get should count. I think that means we should get only the highest requested ones and leave things like "wacky hardware representative!" and "cuh-rayzee retro character NO ONE saw coming!!!" to the wayside and focus entirely on what people have been begging for for years. If that's what happens I think it doesn't matter that Nintendo mislead us with the ballot, we'll have gotten way more than just one winner.

In the past I may have disagreed with this, but I find myself completely agreeing with this now. I think our remaining roster picks are either going to be massively demanded characters or hype-inducing third parties, with maybe one or two characters breaking those criteria. The rest will be shifted to DLC and released throughout the Switch's lifespan.

 

[PSIGuy]

Geno breaks the Smash Ball, lands his Final Smash AND the timed hit so it's an instant KO and returns to the battlefield only to start glowing again as the words FREEBIE fly out of him

Geno OP pls nerf

 

[Wambo]

I think the end result of the ballot was EVERYONE IS HERE as returning vets were clearly some of the most requested characters.

What really matters is whether or not we get some of the other popular votes like K. Rool, Geno and Ashely (or whoever else, I don't know). Sakurai said we're not getting many newcomers, so the ones we actually DO get should count. I think that means we should get only the highest requested ones and leave things like "wacky hardware representative!" and "cuh-rayzee retro character NO ONE saw coming!!!" to the wayside and focus entirely on what people have been begging for for years. If that's what happens I think it doesn't matter that Nintendo mislead us with the ballot, we'll have gotten way more than just one winner.

This makes the most sense for a game called "Smash Ultimate", but I'm hoping Sakurai also sees it that way. I don't want another Wii Fit Trainer. I don't want ****ing Chorus Men. Hell, I might've wanted Excitebike or Mach Rider at one point, but characters like K.Rool, Geno, Dee have WAY more priority over that. If Sakurai straight-up ignores them for some anime babe nobody will remember in ten years, that'll make me beyond sad.

 

[StormC]

I'm not gonna raise hell if not literally every single character is a ballot pick, but I hope they're the driving force behind this roster. Characters like K. Rool and Isaac aren't going to get in without it unless they make a comeback many years from now, but who wants to wait that long?

 

[KMDP]

This makes the most sense for a game called "Smash Ultimate", but I'm hoping Sakurai also sees it that way. I don't want another Wii Fit Trainer. I don't want ****ing Chorus Men. Hell, I might've wanted Excitebike or Mach Rider at one point, but characters like K.Rool, Geno, Dee have WAY more priority over that. If Sakurai straight-up ignores them for some anime babe nobody will remember in ten years, that'll make me beyond sad.

I don't want Chorus Men, either, tbh. Once again this is a "I have no connection to this character" thing. But Chorus Men are lower for me than Geno, and that's saying something. If nothing else, I'd want Geno just for his fans. He's only been in one game; and, IIRC, was actually a cut cameo from Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga. There's a level of devotion there that's admirable.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

In the past I may have disagreed with this, but I find myself completely agreeing with this now. I think our remaining roster picks are either going to be massively demanded characters or hype-inducing third parties, with maybe one or two characters breaking those criteria. The rest will be shifted to DLC and released throughout the Switch's lifespan.

honestly would be the smartest thing to do

if they legally can, they should just keep re-porting this game for a long while

This makes the most sense for a game called "Smash Ultimate", but I'm hoping Sakurai also sees it that way. I don't want another Wii Fit Trainer. I don't want ****ing Chorus Men. Hell, I might've wanted Excitebike or Mach Rider at one point, but characters like K.Rool, Geno, Dee have WAY more priority over that. If Sakurai straight-up ignores them for some anime babe nobody will remember in ten years, that'll make me beyond sad.

okay so i keep having to come in but

dee was not supported for ten years.
king k. rool was hardly drummed up until after the fact for Brawl (if anyone wants to prove me wrong on this, gopher it, but around Nintendo's official forum, that's a nada)
the only character's that have been "ignored" for ten years, at this point in time, that I can remember right now from brawl speculation particularly around nintendo's official forums (I'm exhausted from moving today okay) are

-Geno (we have no reason to believe that he won't be in so far, just speculation)
-Krystal (Still acknowledged as an Assist Trophy)
-Masked Man (I would not be surprised if Assist Trophy)

...oh yeah, and tom nook. but tom nook as playable now = lol

edit: I FORGOT ISAAC ON THIS LIST. holy jeebus isaac's support was big back in the olden days

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Sometimes it's also not just about knowing who the character is, but everything down to their name, their design, what they can do, etc. I know a few people who've never fully played through SMRPG or even know what the game is about, but they still root for Geno because of how cool he looks. Same argument applied to Ridley before he was in. Some people never played through the Prime series, but played Super Metroid at least long enough to know who he was and his importance, and vice versa. He was Samus' arch-nemesis, and a kick-*** dragon.

Also, Geno's design EMBODIES the "classic Square" look. It's very nostalgic in a certain way.

As someone whose most wanted newcomer became Ridley after Brawl (besides the impossible dream of Tyranitar), yeah for me it had little to do with Metroid fandom or being a big fan of Ridley prior (only Metroid game I ever owned and played was Fusion, and while I liked it a lot it wasn't a huge favorite for me nor is Ridley in it that noteworthy, Nightmare was a more memorable and better boss). Instead it was becoming aware of the demand of Ridley and thinking he made sense, while finding his design and character potential very appealing and to really standout from the Smash roster (I always favored heavyweights and villains in Smash, so an evil space dragon checks a lot of boxes for me). Plus I always found the vocal arguments against him irrational, so I became more fervent in my desire for him in response.

K. Rool has also been one of my most wanted newcomers post-Brawl for similar reasons even though I never played a Donkey Kong Country game extensively.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm not gonna raise hell if not literally every single character is a ballot pick, but I hope they're the driving force behind this roster. Characters like K. Rool and Isaac aren't going to get in without it unless they make a comeback many years from now, but who wants to wait that long?

stormc is a cool dude.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This makes the most sense for a game called "Smash Ultimate", but I'm hoping Sakurai also sees it that way. I don't want another Wii Fit Trainer. I don't want ****ing Chorus Men. Hell, I might've wanted Excitebike or Mach Rider at one point, but characters like K.Rool, Geno, Dee have WAY more priority over that. If Sakurai straight-up ignores them for some anime babe nobody will remember in ten years, that'll make me beyond sad.

I actually want Chorus Men though...

I think "Ultimate" (or "Special" if you're in Japan) also entails revisiting old ideas from the Smash franchise and turning them into reality (mind you, Geno is a former idea for a character Sakurai had that didn't work out, so he falls under this category).

Also, "character priority" has long been disconfirmed, alongside the idea of series having "representatives" like Smash Bros. is the U.S. House of Representatives or something.

Also I'll sneak this in here because it doesn't necessarily have to do with Smash Ultimate, but enjoy a Fire Emblem "leak." It's a nice change of pace from the Smash "leaks" I see every day.

Spoiler: "Leak"

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422851098/#422851098
Besides from Three Houses which will be released in 2019, a couple more Fire Emblem games are in development.

Fire Emblem Warriors Legends is being made. It just a physical release of the game with the DLC. Though, it does feature Roy, Hector, Ike, Black Knight, Sigurd, Lief, Alm, Lukas, Felicia, Darios and the villains as playable characters and features more History Mode Maps and will feature more DLC down the path. If you already have the game, you can update to Legends for free.

A fighting game is being made by Arc System Works. It will be a 2 on 2. At least one character from each main series game will be included. The only characters I know that are playable are the Smash Bros bunch of Fire Emblem characters and Chrom. Though, I have heard about Hector and Lyn as well.

The Next Legendary Hero will be Chrom. He will be a old version of him self and will be called Old King: Chrom. He will have a beard and will be a Red Sword Unit.

Not really Fire Emblem, but Project X Zone 3 is being developed. Chrom and Marth are a Pair Unit. Most people from Project X Zone 1 and 2 will return and will feature more characters from Nintendo and will feature characters from Square Enix as well.

A free update to Legends would be painful because I traded in Fire Emblem Warriors for Splatoon 2 because I thought I'd S-Ranked all the missions in both the main game and DLC and thought that the game would get no new content. I also forgot to claim the My Nintendo Gold Points for the game, which also hurt. (¢60 is important to me okay).

 

[papagenos]

I made a quick video on this new Ballot revelation.

I tried to be fair about it, basically ending on the note that this is a positive thing for smash bros ultimate, as it points to the fact we will almost certainly be getting mostly smash ballot newcomers in ultimate.

I also think it was probably ultimately (heh) the right move on Nintendos part as if they didn't somewhat "trick" us into doing the ballot in the guise of doing it for Smash 4, we'd have known about smash ultimate waaaay too early and would have had to wait years with the knowledge our ballots picks might be in the works the whole time and then immense disappointment if years later we didnt get what we expected. There was no "right" way to do the ballot for smash bros ultimate.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Hey, so I’m reworking my roster and I was wondering how the fandom is count the roster. I know the number includes both Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as fighters 33, 34, and 35 but is this counted among the fandom? So instead of 65 playable characters, we have 63 with pokemon Trainer just repping both? Also, does Daisy, Dark Pit, And Lucina technically count as fighters 66-68? They echnically are roster spots and are fighters so technically Smash Ultimate has 68 total characters, 65 without counting the three Pokemon.

 

[StormC]

Hey, so I’m reworking my roster and I was wondering how the fandom is count the roster. I know the number includes both Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as fighters 33, 34, and 35 but is this counted among the fandom? So instead of 65 playable characters, we have 63 with pokemon Trainer just repping both? Also, does Daisy, Dark Pit, And Lucina technically count as fighters 66-68? They echnically are roster spots and are fighters so technically Smash Ultimate has 68 total characters, 65 without counting the three Pokemon.

I count it as 65 with the echoes separate, like the SmashBros website.

 

[KMDP]

I count it as 65 with the echoes separate, like the SmashBros website.

Isn't the count 66 if PT is all one and the echoes are separate?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hey, so I’m reworking my roster and I was wondering how the fandom is count the roster. I know the number includes both Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as fighters 33, 34, and 35 but is this counted among the fandom? So instead of 65 playable characters, we have 63 with pokemon Trainer just repping both? Also, does Daisy, Dark Pit, And Lucina technically count as fighters 66-68? They echnically are roster spots and are fighters so technically Smash Ultimate has 68 total characters, 65 without counting the three Pokemon.

should be counted as 68 overall, I'd say.

 

[Zinith]

Hey, so I’m reworking my roster and I was wondering how the fandom is count the roster. I know the number includes both Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as fighters 33, 34, and 35 but is this counted among the fandom? So instead of 65 playable characters, we have 63 with pokemon Trainer just repping both? Also, does Daisy, Dark Pit, And Lucina technically count as fighters 66-68? They echnically are roster spots and are fighters so technically Smash Ultimate has 68 total characters, 65 without counting the three Pokemon.

I count the Echoes and the PT Pokemon and the 3 Miis are separate, so 68. Also if I consider Echoes in the numbering system, I would put Dark Pit 55, Lucina 57 and Daisy 67, with the other characters adjusting to a different number.

 

[Wambo]

I will admit Geno looks interesting! I don't know how he'd play (though if Sakurai is to be believed, a certain amount of his ideas for Geno went into the Mii Gunner), though.

I actually have a question, as a Geno fan, if Geno's Mii Costume was used as a preset build for the Mii Gunner in Online Play (with a specific name and voice tied to him) that can also be used in Offline Play, would you accept that? Just... curious... because I think preset builds are a good way to solve the 'Miis online' issue.

Probably not, because there's so much potential for him as a unique fighter and representative of the beginning of Mario's RPG genre.

To be honest, I felt pretty screwed over when they showed him as a Mii costume after so many years of waiting/hoping. It wasn't just that I couldn't play as Geno himself, but the Miis also look incredibly obnoxious/feel kind of... "autistic", for lack of a better word? It hurts to see such a respected, cool character with an interesting history like Geno slapped on what's essentially kind of a meme character like the Mii. It's a little better with someone like K.Rool since he has some meme-y aspects of his popularity and the costume adds to it, but all fans of any character would always rather have the fighter.

Like Sakurai said, he also has plenty of potential as a fighter and would fit right into Smash. I'm not great at imagining movesets unless I had a controller, a pad of paper, and a pen with me, but there's plenty of great Geno threads out there that have already thought of better stuff than I can.

 

[StormC]

Isn't the count 66 if PT is all one and the echoes are separate?

Ridley is the 65th fighter.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/65.html

PT's Pokemon are considered 33-35.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, if it was anyone other than Bayonetta, no one would care, but because she's already a controversial character, people are on edge about this.

She's a very love her or hate her character and this situation doesn't help things.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Honestly, if it was anyone other than Bayonetta, no one would care, but because she's already a controversial character, people are on edge about this.

She's a very love her or hate her character and this situation doesn't help things.

i'm enjoying this because it's kind of the wake-up call people need to remind themselves "Yes, Nintendo is indeed a company"

 

[Wambo]

okay so i keep having to come in but

dee was not supported for ten years.

By the "anime babe nobody will remember in ten years" thing, I meant from a game like Xenoblade or FE, not a character actually in Smash.

Hell, I used to play Fire Emblem all the time on the Gamecube/Wii, and the only character I remember now is Ike and the red-haired chick on the horse. You could just as easily call her "Erza Scarlet" though and I would believe you, because that's how incredibly generic her design is.

 

[papagenos]

68 if you count each actual individual character.
65 if you count pkmn trainer as 3 characters and dont count the echos.
66 if you count pokemon trainer as one character and count the echos as their own.

 

[KMDP]

Probably not, because there's so much potential for him as a unique fighter and representative of the beginning of Mario's RPG genre.

To be honest, I felt pretty screwed over when they showed him as a Mii costume after so many years of waiting/hoping. It wasn't just that I couldn't play as Geno himself, but the Miis also look incredibly obnoxious/feel kind of... "autistic", for lack of a better word? It hurts to see such a respected, cool character with an interesting history like Geno slapped on what's essentially kind of a meme character like the Mii. It's a little better with someone like K.Rool since he has some meme-y aspects of his popularity and the costume adds to it, but all fans of any character would always rather have the fighter.

Like Sakurai said, he also has plenty of potential as a fighter and would fit right into Smash. I'm not great at imagining movesets unless I had a controller, a pad of paper, and a pen with me, but there's plenty of great Geno threads out there that have already thought of better stuff than I can.

Fair enough! It was an admittedly lame idea I had that could only be come up with by a person with no connection to the character. I'd also have some strong words to say if Isaac were just a Mii Fighter costume (even if he were a specific build of Mii Swordfighter that was referred to as "Isaac" by the announcer).

Ridley is the 65th fighter.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/65.html

PT's Pokemon are considered 33-35.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html

There is a page on the Smash Bros. website that says "66 Fighters! Counting Pokémon Trainer as one and the Echo Fighters seperately."

 

[StormC]

There is a page on the Smash Bros. website that says "66 Fighters! Counting Pokémon Trainer as one and the Echo Fighters seperately."

Correct. That one counts it differently (for some reason). My basis is the numbering on the site with how it's laid out. I call it 65 fighters.

 

[P.Kat]

Here's a game for you all, suggest up to four characters, in the form of character pitches. Like how in that Smash 4 design document that describes what Rosalina, Robin and Duck Hunt can do as a Smash Fighter.



You must provide a short description of what the character can do (you can relate them to other fighters to give a clearer idea of what they do) and a theme for the character.

Isaac
The main character of Golden Sun, Isaac fights with Venus Psynergy (Earth Manipulation), Djinn (Helpful Elemental Spirits) and a Sword at his disposal. When Isaac fully charges his Neutral, Side or Down Special attacks, his attack will cause a temporary change in the structure of the stage in the area around him, though these changes will eventually revert back to normal after a few seconds. Certain basic and smash attacks will cause a Djinn to come to Isaac's aid, which will not only increase the range of the attack, but temporarily provide a very small boost to one of his stats (attack power, movement speed, damage taken, jump height, etc.) until the next time he uses his attack, which will remove the Djinn's effect. His side smash, when fully charged, becomes 'Ragnarok', a huge ethereal sword which will plant itself in the ground and bury foes.
Theme: Stage Manipulation, Ranged Sword Fighting

Nightmare
The Azure Knight of Soul Calibur, Nightmare fights with a huge Great Sword known as "Soul Edge". This sword weighs him down a lot, making him very heavy and slow, but his attacks really pack a wallop and have huge knockback. When Nightmare attacks with Soul Edge, he recovers a small amount of percentage depending on how much damage he dealt to the opponent (approximately 10%). This HP recover effect also occurs when Nightmare grabs his foe, he can't pummel his opponent, but he absorbs health from them instead. His Final Smash involves summoning a horse made of Shadow, a 'Night mare', and mowing down enemies.
Theme: Hard Hitting Attacks, HP absorption.

Sephiroth
The One-winged Angel, the greatest SOLDIER, and 'son' of Jenova. Sephiroth carries an enormous katana by the name of Masamune. Sephiroth, confident to the point of arrogance, moves slowly and deliberately when not actively running (he 'runs' by gliding, just like Cloud). When he attacks with Masamune, he appears to swing the sword slowly, but actually several wind blades from his fast strokes attack his opponent; as a result, his attacks hit multiple times, but they also take a while to end, so you better make sure not to miss. His Down Aerial, "Hell's Gate", has the property of instantly destroying damageable Assist Trophies.
Theme: Deliberate, multi-hitting attacks.

Tifa Lockhart
The beautiful patron of the "Seventh Heaven" Bar and a member of AVALANCHE, Tifa plays somewhat like a fusion of Cloud and Little Mac. Like Little Mac, her style is mostly about fisticuffs, and she does poorly in the air, and like Cloud, she has a Limit Gauge which, when filled, powers up her Special Moves. She fights with kicks and punches, which do a lot of damage but have relatively poor range; her special moves are Beat Rush (Neutral), a combo move that requires extra inputs; Somersault (Up), a back flip; Meteodrive (Side), a command grab that involves suplexing the character she grabs; and Limit Charge (Down), which works the same way as with Cloud. Her Final Smash "Final Heaven" requires you to play a roulette (wth "Yeah!", "Hit" or "Miss"), the damage it deals depends on how many "Yeah!" or "Hit" slots you get.
Theme: Limit Breaking Fisticuffs

Alright I maybe late but I'll do a couple.

Amaterasu
The Legendary White Wolf also known as "mother of all" Amaterasu is the goddess of the sun who takes the form of a wolf. Amaterasu plays like a fusion of Mario, and Palutena, a jack of all trades character, with high movement speed that's easily capable of rushdown, zoning/keepaway, and combo/beatdowns, she has an Ink mechanic that differs from Inklings and using it up hinders her greatly. Her normal moveset has her fight like a regular wolf, but she has a variety of weapons (reflector, Glaive, Rosary Beads) that have close, mid, and long range attacks, each with different attack speeds. She can effortlessly switch between them by lightly tapping the taunt buttons. Her moveset and Neutral Special differs for each weapon (3 total) but her other Specials stay the same, her Specials revolves around the Celestial Brush and uses ink regardless of the current weapon, Side Special is Power Slash, Ammy draws a straight line ahead of her across her enemy then quickly cuts them. The longer you hold Side B, the longer the trail and the more enemies you can catch but you use up more ink too.
Theme: Combo fighter, Jack of All trades, Weapon Switching, Ink mechanic: creating objects, and attacks

Fjorm
The second princess from the Ice Kingdom of Nifl In Fire Emblem Heroes. She plays similar to Palutena and Lucina using mid-range attacks, bait-and-punish, and Speedy rushdown tactics in use with her ice abilities but she's very light making her prone to early KOs. She jabs her lance towards the enemy for jab attacks but multi strike has her spin her lance quickly, rapidly slashing enemies or defending against attacks with it's disjointed hitbox. All her moves have a freezing mechanic that disrupts enemies at lower damages and full out freezes them in their tracks at higher damages, but some require a sweetspot to connect to freeze. Her Neutral Special acts like Marth's Shield Breaker except instead of breaking shields it freezes the enemy (it doesn't need a sweetspot to freeze) allowing you to escape a situation or follow up on an attack depending on their damage. Side Special has her firing a beam of ice at her enemies, Down Special: Ice Mirror absorb and reduces damage from range attacks, then instantly shoots an ice spike from underneath the enemy on the ground or above the enemy if in the air the attack is boosted by the damage Fjorm would takes. Her Final Smash has her launching giant ice spires from a powerful Blizzard.
Theme: Mid-range, rushdown fighter ice/freezing abilities.

Shantae
The Half Genie Hero, and protector of Scuttle Town, Shantae fights using her own style slightly taking a page from Zelda's forgotten hand book of transformations. Using her hair, Shantae can attack from a close to mid-range distance with above average knockback, and damage. What? not impress with 'hair raising combat'? Then you'll be interested in her long range magic. She can shoot fireballs, triple fireballs, and a flamethrower attack by charging Neutral Special at different lengths, she also can shoot a steady stream of lightning with Side Special too. To face any problem, Shantae can transform into different creatures from monkeys for quick attacks to elephants for overwhelming power to harpies for recovery she's got a transformation for any situation.
Theme: Rushdown/Zoner, Transformation mechanic

 

[KMDP]

Alright I maybe late but I'll do a couple.

Amaterasu
The Legendary White Wolf also known as "mother of all" Amaterasu is the goddess of the sun who takes the form of a wolf. Amaterasu plays like a fusion of Mario, and Palutena, a jack of all trades character, with high movement speed that's easily capable of rushdown, zoning/keepaway, and combo/beatdowns, she has an Ink mechanic that differs from Inklings and using it up hinders her greatly. Her normal moveset has her fight like a regular wolf, but she has a variety of weapons (reflector, Glaive, Rosary Beads) that have close, mid, and long range attacks, each with different attack speeds. She can effortlessly switch between them by lightly tapping the taunt buttons. Her moveset and Neutral Special differs for each weapon (3 total) but her other Specials stay the same, her Specials revolves around the Celestial Brush and uses ink regardless of the current weapon, Side Special is Power Slash, Ammy draws a straight line ahead of her across her enemy then quickly cuts them. The longer you hold Side B, the longer the trail and the more enemies you can catch but you use up more ink too.
Theme: Combo fighter, Jack of All trades, Weapon Switching, Ink mechanic: creating objects, and attacks

Fjorm
The second princess from the Ice Kingdom of Nifl In Fire Emblem Heroes. She plays similar to Palutena and Lucina using mid-range attacks, bait-and-punish, and Speedy rushdown tactics in use with her ice abilities but she's very light making her prone to early KOs. She jabs her lance towards the enemy for jab attacks but multi strike has her spin her lance quickly, rapidly slashing enemies or defending against attacks with it's disjointed hitbox. All her moves have a freezing mechanic that disrupts enemies at lower damages and full out freezes them in their tracks at higher damages, but some require a sweetspot to connect to freeze. Her Neutral Special acts like Marth's Shield Breaker except instead of breaking shields it freezes the enemy (it doesn't need a sweetspot to freeze) allowing you to escape a situation or follow up on an attack depending on their damage. Side Special has her firing a beam of ice at her enemies, Down Special: Ice Mirror absorb and reduces damage from range attacks, then instantly shoots an ice spike from underneath the enemy on the ground or above the enemy if in the air the attack is boosted by the damage Fjorm would takes. Her Final Smash has her launching giant ice spires from a powerful Blizzard.
Theme: Mid-range, rushdown fighter ice/freezing abilities.

Shantae
The Half Genie Hero, and protector of Scuttle Town, Shantae fights using her own style slightly taking a page from Zelda's forgotten hand book of transformations. Using her hair, Shantae can attack from a close to mid-range distance with above average knockback, and damage. What? not impress with 'hair raising combat'? Then you'll be interested in her long range magic. She can shoot fireballs, triple fireballs, and a flamethrower attack by charging Neutral Special at different lengths, she also can shoot a steady stream of lightning with Side Special too. To face any problem, Shantae can transform into different creatures from monkeys for quick attacks to elephants for overwhelming power to harpies for recovery she's got a transformation for any situation.
Theme: Rushdown/Zoner, Transformation mechanic

Great! Send them the way of my thread if you want (so that people can find 'em later), you can find the link in my signature.

 

[Blargg888]

[Q

Hey, so I’m reworking my roster and I was wondering how the fandom is count the roster. I know the number includes both Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard as fighters 33, 34, and 35 but is this counted among the fandom? So instead of 65 playable characters, we have 63 with pokemon Trainer just repping both? Also, does Daisy, Dark Pit, And Lucina technically count as fighters 66-68? They echnically are roster spots and are fighters so technically Smash Ultimate has 68 total characters, 65 without counting the three Pokemon.

If you want to count by all separate fighters, the count is 68.
If you count by choosable characters, the count is 66. Pokémon Trainer is a composite character made up of 3 character move sets. So in terms of separate fighters, he counts for three, but in terms of playable characters he counts as one.
I personally look at it this way, at least. Also, yeah, I personally count the echoes in the overall fighter list.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Honestly, I've been looking at all this "Ballot was rigged, Bayo stole the leader's slot!" rigamaroll, and I have one thing to say to the people who genuinely believe it...

The biggest reason I don't believe it was Nintendo's apparent adamance in keeping the game suited for a younger audience, what with the more cartoonish artstyle, items, and attacks. Sure, she may have been able to fit in, but her sex appeal, weaponry, and tendency to drop practically every bomb in the verbal arsenal were major red lights when it came to the base game. Not to mention, before Bayo 2 on the Wii U, her first game (released 5 years prior) was on platforms with large userbases (which became apparent following the U's lackluster beginnings). I'm sticking with my guns on this one, and swaying towards the sidelines of "not rigged, but affected by non-Nintendo users."

 

[Wambo]

As someone whose most wanted newcomer became Ridley after Brawl (besides the impossible dream of Tyranitar), yeah for me it had little to do with Metroid fandom or being a big fan of Ridley prior (only Metroid game I ever owned and played was Fusion, and while I liked it a lot it wasn't a huge favorite for me nor is Ridley in it that noteworthy, Nightmare was a more memorable and better boss). Instead it was becoming aware of the demand of Ridley and thinking he made sense, while finding his design and character potential very appealing and to really standout from the Smash roster (I always favored heavyweights and villains in Smash, so an evil space dragon checks a lot of boxes for me). Plus I always found the vocal arguments against him irrational, so I became more fervent in my desire for him in response.

K. Rool has also been one of my most wanted newcomers post-Brawl for similar reasons even though I never played a Donkey Kong Country game extensively.

I was like that with Ridley, but his inclusion in Smash actually got me more interested in Metroid, and recently, I purchased and beat the first three games in the original series (Metroid is incredibly cool, but holy **** that back-tracking tho. Some of the secrets are bull**** too).

With characters like Geno and K.Rool however (especially K.Rool, although I'm a bigger Geno fan), I played their games way back when I was a kid. Geno was always my favorite party member, and the DKC series was always so iconic and memorable to me (seriously, who the hell dreams up a gold-bellied crocodile?!). The story/characters of SMRPG were awesome, and the art style of both games was incredibly good.

 

[UberMadman]

Honestly, if it was anyone other than Bayonetta, no one would care, but because she's already a controversial character, people are on edge about this.

She's a very love her or hate her character and this situation doesn't help things.

The sad thing is that if she was a more balanced character in Smash 4, I think this also would have blown over. To me, it seems that a lot of the Bayonetta hate hit after she joined the roster, and while there were definitely people disappointed at her reveal as the final character, I still sensed a lot of cautious optimism for a while until around a month or two after she hit the competitive scene. I really do hope that she is more balanced in Ultimate; although she wasn't my choice for the roster, I do think she's genuinely a very cool character in her own right.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Honestly, I've been looking at all this "Ballot was rigged, Bayo stole the leader's slot!" rigamaroll, and I have one thing to say to the people who genuinely believe it...

The biggest reason I don't believe it was Nintendo's apparent adamance in keeping the game suited for a younger audience, what with the more cartoonish artstyle, items, and attacks. Sure, she may have been able to fit in, but her sex appeal, weaponry, and tendency to drop practically every bomb in the verbal arsenal were major red lights when it came to the base game. Not to mention, before Bayo 2 on the Wii U, her first game (released 5 years prior) was on platforms with large userbases (which became apparent following the U's lackluster beginnings). I'm sticking with my guns on this one, and swaying towards the sidelines of "not rigged, but affected by non-Nintendo users."

The evidence is pretty indisputable that Bayo was decided and started development before the Ballot launched; character slots being added that use specifically Zero Suit Samus' and Ike's stats that became Bayonetta and Cloud, instead of just having Mario's stats as a mere placeholder would, and it being there in an update that released just two weeks after the Ballot launched, is not a coincidence.