Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

We all know who the most OBVIOUS Mario RPG rep should be:

Spoiler

What? Were you expecting a different Yoshi character? I don't know what you mean...

 

[Impa4Smash]

We all know who the most OBVIOUS Mario RPG rep should be:

Spoiler

What? Were you expecting a different Yoshi character? I don't know what you mean...

Maybe if Paper Mario gets in he can be his final smash or side-B. If Paper Mario’s moves used partners that would be super interesting

 

[lordvaati]

None of those characters are really very major or recurring though. Your comparison of Rosalina and Bowser Jr. doesn't quite hold water because those characters became major Mario staples - Rosalina even became playable in a Super Mario game. It'd be more like if they added Boom Boom or something instead of Toad than the examples you provided.

This was generally true until recently: Much like how Rosetta was added to 3D World and Daisy to Mario Run, older Kirby characters have been made recurring cast members due to becoming playable in the recent Star Allies game such as Marx here.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This guy makes it over your most requested newcomer, wyd?

I can't believe they cut Ridley before the game released

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Does anyone know who some of the characters the European community voted for during the ballot days?

 

[PhantomShab]

It's already got a lot of attention. A public implication that the Ballot was not used for Smash 3DS & Wii U DLC is a big deal to a lot of people since most people did not know about this until now even though we got information on this as early as 2016. It's just that this is hard to find since this is not the type of information the average person would be able to discover seeing as Ruben_dal, the person who publicized the information, is a dataminer.

Also, let's be real, even if this receives mainstream attention, it's not going to affect Nintendo's bottom line at all. Had this come out in 2016 when it was first discovered, maybe it would have been PR disaster. The thing is, it's been years since the ballot ended and we're already hyping SSBU, which so far looks incredible, so this will only serve as a blip in the radar. It's still not going to prevent it from likely being the best selling Smash game ever. Nor will Sakurai feel personally affected by this news. He knew what he was doing when he used Zero Suit Samus as a base for Bayonetta during the early weeks of the Ballot. If this gets back to Sakurai, he's not going to cry about it or feel remorse because of mean words people say to him. In fact, he'll laugh it off and remember what a marketing genius this was.

Advertise a ballot to gain the attention of dedicated Nintendo fans in hopes of getting their favorite character in. All the while, he hedges his bet on Bayonetta doing "well enough" to pass off as a ballot winner which she does then confirms her and Corrin in December. Then he uses the results from the ballot to influence the roster for Ultimate with big additions like all veterans returning, Ridley as a newcomer, and more not yet confirmed.

We shouldn't put this under the rug because this is a topic worth discussing, there are characters Sakurai deemed "unrealizable" that for whatever reason, are showing up now instead of as DLC. With more newcomers left to unveil that bodes well for characters like King K. Rool. We are seeing a winning advertising strategy difficult to pull off without a PR disaster.

It all just makes the WiiU era feel even worse (which is quite an achievement) in hindsight. Knowing that Sakurai just blatantly lied about the ballot having anything at all to do with Smash 4.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Does anyone know who some of the characters the European community voted for during the ballot days?

I believe K Rool and Rayman are both fairly popular

 

[Wambo]

It all just makes the WiiU era feel even worse in hindsight. Knowing that Sakurai just blatantly lied about the ballot having anything to do with Smash 4.

I think if you released a Smash game on a Nintendo console, late into it's lifespan, and it alone isn't boosting sales significantly like it should, it's better to just abandon ship and start fresh.

I'm so tired of seeing people piss and moan about the Wii U when it couldn't have been more obvious that it was a failing console. I mean, I'm a pretty huge Nintendo fan, but even I was aware of that. Believe me, saving the ballot characters for later is a smart, reasonable move.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Does anyone know who some of the characters the European community voted for during the ballot days?

I can't speak for the European community but from what I know irl, K.Rool's a popular choice for hardcore fans. Casual fans just want their fav third parties. Keep in mind this is from an irl group of friends and a store worker from the Dutch equivalent of Gamestop

 

[KMDP]

Does anyone know who some of the characters the European community voted for during the ballot days?

Apparently, Golden Sun (and by extension Isaac) is fairly popular in Europe.

'course, they don't necessarily know him as Isaac. They know him as Hans or Vlad... and he's known as Robin in Japan. I'm probably forgetting another name he's known as.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Does anyone know who some of the characters the European community voted for during the ballot days?

It's pretty much predominately King K Rool, Dixie, Geno and that kind of stuff, just like everywhere else TBH.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm just saying it's likely most of the characters were already decided on by early 2016 based on the information we have. Marx was not remotely considered a contender for Smash until the Dream Friend DLC happened early this year. Now he does have support - is it going to fade out like a lot of flavor of the month characters, or will he continue to make major appearances and maintain his fanbase?

Sakurai can't use a time machine here.

I can't answer about the FotM character parts, but I can say that the love for the Kirby characters has never died "per-se", it's just very fanbase centric inside the fanbase. Smash is also a fanservice game and a promotional game, so, I wouldn't be too shocked either way.

(plus this game will probably have DLC. they'd be silly to milk it less than Smash Wii U was on a console that has WAY more of an install base)

 

[PhantomShab]

I think if you released a Smash game on a Nintendo console, late into it's lifespan, and it alone isn't boosting sales significantly like it should, it's better to just abandon ship and start fresh.

I'm so tired of seeing people piss and moan about the Wii U when it couldn't have been more obvious that it was a failing console. I mean, I'm a pretty huge Nintendo fan, but even I was aware of that. Believe me, saving the ballot characters for later is a smart, reasonable move.

That's still no excuse for not just being honest and upfront about what the ballot was actually for-future Smash games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Apparently, Golden Sun (and by extension Isaac) is fairly popular in Europe.

'course, they don't necessarily know him as Isaac. They know him as Hans or Vlad... and he's known as Robin in Japan. I'm probably forgetting another name he's known as.

That's probably for non-English versions of the game cause Isaac didn't get Spirit Tracks-ed/ Shadow Dragon-ed afaik

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I said this a loooooooong time ago but Corrin makes far more sense for DLC than any Xenoblade character. FE sales have absolutely dwarfed XB sales. Based on the previous entries for each series, picking a character to promote FE over XB is a no brainer, especially since XBX was on the Wii U and Fates on the 3DS. Basically, the slot Corrin filled would not make sense for Elma/any other Xeno character to come close to

DLC requires people to buy it to profit from it, and considering how much larger and longstanding the FE fanbase is over Xenoblade fanbase is, yeah Corrin probably was the safer choice for Nintendo to want as the promotional DLC. Also Fates had the whole multigame thing going on and was on 3DS, so they would get more out of promoting Fates over Xenoblade X.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's still no excuse for not just being honest and upfront about what the ballot was actually for-future Smash games.

But the Ballot DID say it'd influence future Smash games

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Any new leaks with Gengar yet?

I wanna see the trend continue.

There was a full roster ""leak"" (two air-quotes because it was more like a wishlist) with him on it. That alongside another full roster ""leak"" made me decide to axe that criteria. Nothing against Gengar, but the roster also had DLC on it, and I find DLC already being planned hard to believe.

 

[KMDP]

It's pretty much predominately King K Rool, Dixie, Geno and that kind of stuff, just like everywhere else TBH.

Hold up.

Geno? Super Mario RPG wasn't sold in Europe until a few years ago on the Nintendo E-Shop. So the casual European player is unlikely to want him unless they specifically frequent places that talk about him.

 

[PhantomShab]

But the Ballot DID say it'd influence future Smash games

Right, and it also said it would influence Smash 4's DLC which it didn't.

 

[Slavic]

May I please get a source for Ashley's popularity? I hear this all the time but I can't seem to get anything.

I was curious too, I did just a little digging and found this article, by no means some official document securing her position as important.
Here is the article. More of an analysis than evidence, but it helped me out so hopefully it'll be useful for you too.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Right, and it also said it would influence Smash 4's DLC which it didn't.

There were the Mii costumes. Just sayin

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Right, and it also said it would influence Smash 4's DLC which it didn't.

Where's the proof? Cause idk, I'd think Mii Costumes can count too as those were also DLC

 

[PhantomShab]

There were the Mii costumes. Just sayin

The second coming of assist trophies.

Where's the proof?

No ballot winners are playable in Smash 4.

 

[Wambo]

That's still no excuse for not just being honest and upfront about what the ballot was actually for-future Smash games.

They probably didn't want to announce it at that time, because people would either get really mad that they were already making another one, or get incredibly overhyped and rush development. Hell, the Switch wasn't even announced at that time, and you wanted them to be honest about a huge secret console?

You also sound actually hurt and offended by it, like Sakurai owed it to us to tell us what it was really for. If characters like K.Rool, and Geno, and Dee, and everyone else we rooted for in the ballot, are actually in this game? And that's what it was all for? It'll have been worth it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The second coming of assist trophies.

Still influenced by the ballot lmao

Also reminder Ashley was used to advertise games she wasn't even in, including some tank game and MONSTER HUNTER

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Okay, gathering what information I could find on the West, Japan, and European ballots, I have constructed a list of what I’m confident our list of newcomers will be. Just checking. Thanks everyone.

 

[Hinata]

Right, and it also said it would influence Smash 4's DLC which it didn't.

Anything counts as "influencing Smash 4's DLC." If a character who was voted for in the Smash Ballot pops up in Smash 4 as a trophy in a later update, that means that vote "influenced the DLC".

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@Fuzzy Pickles! Unfortunately there's no more source for it, but during the days when Nintendo had an official forum, Ashley was definitely popular. There was also the "Nook Wars" if you want to look up that, a lot of support for (basically) anything from Mother 3, and pretty much every Fire Emblem hero

hope that helps some.

 

[PhantomShab]

You also sound actually hurt and offended by it,

You kidding? I couldn't feel more smug and validated right now. I always knew the ballot was a sham and now it's basically as confirmed as can be.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

That's still no excuse for not just being honest and upfront about what the ballot was actually for-future Smash games.

If my theory was right that the Ballot was initially intended for Smash 4 DLC but at some point through they decided to put those resources towards an immediate Smash game instead because of the Wii U's hopelessness and the necessity to get the Switch successful, from a business standpoint they had to be dishonest about it. If they came out and admitted it, not only would they have to reveal plans for the new Smash before it even began development, but it would kill the enthusiasm for Smash 4 and its DLC, significantly hurting one of their biggest sources of profit at a time they really needed it, as less additional copies of Smash 4 are sold and a lot less people are buying the DLC. So the cover story had to be made about Bayonetta being the "ballot winner" to close out Smash 4 DLC while they quietly shifted gears to making Smash Ultimate.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Right, and it also said it would influence Smash 4's DLC which it didn't.

can someone cite the exact quote? like, how the page *exactly* looked like?

 

[Impa4Smash]

can someone cite the exact quote? like, how the page *exactly* looked like?

https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/jsKF0d4U12rTFWu-Bf_nAKhUJgVakVf7

There's something

 

[KMDP]

That's probably for non-English versions of the game cause Isaac didn't get Spirit Tracks-ed/ Shadow Dragon-ed afaik

"Spirit Tracks-ed" & "Shadow Dragon-ed"? What does that mean?

Further research, Isaac is known by these names:
Japan (original): Robin
English: Isaac
France: Hans
Spain: Vlad

 

[Wambo]

Hold up.

Geno? Super Mario RPG wasn't sold in Europe until a few years ago on the Nintendo E-Shop. So the casual European player is unlikely to want him unless they specifically frequent places that talk about him.

There is a certain power of curiosity when it comes to older games that have been region-exclusive/etc. that makes re-releases of said older games more popular and relevant, and I wouldn't ignore the fact that just because SMRPG wasn't around in Europe for years and years like it was for everyone else doesn't mean that people can't now get into it and like a character as cool as Geno.

Probably worded this really poorly cuz I'm tired, but I hope you understand what I mean.

EDIT: Same thing happened to me with Mother 3. I bought the fan translation cartridge a while back and I'm in love with the series now. I have yet to try Earthbound, but based on what I've seen, I'm sure I'll love it as well. I heard Earthbound Zero isn't amazing, but a Ninten Echo fighter would still be cool, and you'd have a rep for each official Mother game.

 

[PhantomShab]

https://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/jsKF0d4U12rTFWu-Bf_nAKhUJgVakVf7

There's something

"Do you want your favorite videogame character to join the battle in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U? Well, here's your chance. Post a videogame character's name and we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!"

Well there we have it. Nothing at all about Mii costumes lol.

 

[Impa4Smash]

"Do you want your favorite videogame character to join the battle in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U? Well, here's your chance. Post a videogame character's name and we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!"

Well there we have it. Nothing at all about Mii costumes lol.

K Rool joined the battle tho as a Mii Costume

But honestly, does it really matter at this point?

 

[Opossum]

"Spirit Tracks-ed" & "Shadow Dragon-ed"? What does that mean?

Further research, Isaac is known by these names:
Japan (original): Robin
English: Isaac
France: Hans
Spain: Vlad

In Shadow Dragon's case the European English versions used alternate translations than the other English versions. Caeda for non-Europe, Shiida for Europe. Likewise for Macedon/Medon, Aurelis/Orleans, Navarre/Nabarl, Archanea/Akeneia, and Dohlr/Doluna.

 

[Hinata]

"Do you want your favorite videogame character to join the battle in Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U? Well, here's your chance. Post a videogame character's name and we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!"

Well there we have it. Nothing at all about Mii costumes lol.

It also says "we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter!"

Literally anyone could've won the ballot. All it means is that they considered the idea. Let's say Geno won. It means they looked at him on the number 1 spot, considered it, like they said they would, and then decided against it.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

I've never really done a genuine speculation post, as I'm usually too afraid to express what I think. But I think now is as good a time as any.

Given tonight's revelations regarding the Ballot, I'm gonna assume the Ballot was most likely used to gauge what the fans want for Smash. K.Rool, Isaac, Ashley, Geno and Bandana Dee (among others) were all very popular choices during Smash 4's DLC hype season.

Elma as a likely pick for a new Xenoblade rep who also has good timing as Ultimate was most likely in planning stages a few months after XCX released internationally. She has great moveset potential and a dedicated fanbase to boot.

Simon Belmont as a common choice these days due to having classic nintendo history, 'leaks' backing him up, a wide arrange of moves that guarantee a unique playstyle, and Konami not being awful this time and collaborating for Smash again.

Perhaps a Gen 7 Pokemon as well? Sun and Moon would be released in late 2016, presumably not too long after the initial planning stages of Ultimate. Another Greninja scenario could've been pulled, where designs of Gen 7 Pokemon could've been sent in, and considered for Smash based on moveset potential.

And whatever other 'surprise' characters that might be thrown in too, and the numerous possibilities of DLC fighters.

IMO, I'd say any of above characters are pretty likely. And, you know? With what we have already, having any the above would be icing on the cake.

I hate to get my hopes up, as I'm frequently disappointed, but I'd say a roster like this would deserve the title of Ultimate.

 

[KMDP]

There is a certain power of curiosity when it comes to games that are region-exclusive/etc. that makes re-releases of older games more popular and relevant, and I wouldn't ignore the fact that just because SMRPG wasn't around in Europe for years and years like it was for everyone else doesn't mean that people can't now get into it and like a character as cool as Geno.

Probably worded this really poorly cuz I'm tired, but I hope you understand what I mean.

I get what you mean, but in Europe, Geno is niche at best.
If that sounds tetchy, sorry, I'm also tired. I also realise that that can be said for plenty of characters that haven't already gotten into Smash (like a certain GBA main character I support).