Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

Made a mock up of a potential Raiden stock icon cause why not

How did you make that? Just curious.

Anyway, check this out:

Mario lost his taunt that makes him grow larger. Probably due to potential weird outcomes of taunt cancelling (maybe not, but I could be crazy), but I do see they wanted to give Cappy its time.

 

[monadoboy]

So, with Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta being based off of characters such as Ike and Zero Suit Samus, anyone else feel that they just didn't want to go the full effort with making all new models for characters to make overall new characters? I mean, I could be wrong, but that is how I am starting to see it. I mean, it takes less effort to base a character's model off of another than to make a new one overall, doesn't it now?

With how many characters there are in the game, I find it hard to think of a character that wouldn't use another as a base.
Reusing as many assets as possible is programming 101.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Why are people acting like this is new or obscure information? You can literally see it explicitly said in her announcement trailer. We've known this for longer than she's actually been in the game.

Before it was argued by most people that "realizable characters" just meant excluding characters like Goku and Shrek, thus she was the legitimate winner among viable characters and chosen from the Ballot, while people who suspected otherwise were treated as salty conspiracy nuts. So now we got objective evidence that Bayo was actually planned and began active development for the Ballot even launched.

 

[Will]

Made a mock up of a potential Raiden stock icon cause why not

Out of all the Raidens you chose, you chose the not cyborg one?

 

[Onua]

How did you make that? Just curious.

drew it in photoshop lol

 

[PLATINUM7]

It's not just developing it on the side, they put the data into a patch that put it on the actual released game. Also Smash 64 was intended to be its own fighting game originally and the idea to add Nintendo characters came to it later. Additionally in every Smash game since then Sakurai plans out the roster before doing any actual development, DLC shouldn't be any different, as it's basic development sense.

Yes I know all this. I'm just saying the notion that people can't make anything with an IP they haven't been licensed yet isn't true. It happens. When converting Dragon King to Smash, Sakurai developed Nintendo characters before getting approval and thankfully he was allowed to continue working on it.

Other people don't get so lucky. For instance, Renegade Kid's Dimentium started off as a Silent Hill game but Konami turned them down.

I'm not saying this is what happened for Smash 4. Given how much time and effort it takes to make Smash I don't think Sakurai would bother making a proof of concept to show a rights holder before working out a license in case it goes nowhere. This isn't even going into the data in the updates which further reflects the lieklyhood that licenses were negotiated before development.

 

[KingBroly]

Does her being added earlier than the ballot proves she didn't win, tho? Isn't it still possible she was number one in Europe and top 5 in US regardless of when she was developed/planned?

You can use Statistics to say whatever you want. Just because "Bayonetta was #1 in Europe" doesn't mean she got a heck of a lot of votes overall. Plus, we don't know how many characters were omitted to reach that conclusion. In the end, Bayonetta "winning the ballot" is likely just an excuse for the work they were already doing.

 

[UltimateWario]

Out of all the Raidens you chose, you chose the not cyborg one?

Are you telling me you don't want to play as naked Raiden? Whose Final Smash floods the stage and kills everyone else, then he goes "We've managed to avoid drowning!"

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean, that's kind of how game development works. You cut costs when you're able to. I work in game development professionally so finding out X character was based off of Y character using shared assets isn't too shocking.
You seem to be under the impression that simply because a character shares assets with another character, that that instantly makes them a low effort addition all together and that's simply factually untrue. How many animations does Bayo ACTUALLY share with ZSS? How many move properties? Bayo had to be balance tested from the ground up as well as have all her moves animated and polished as much as any other newcomer, they were just able to save a bit of time since Bayo and ZSS have a similar body type.

No, not at all. I know there takes more work into making those characters than that. I just might not have used the right words, and even then, that was just ONE possibility there. There are others to consider, too. I also knew about the rest you have said. I did not mean low effort if I did say it the way you may have thought I did. I just said they weren't seemingly as willing to make all new models for characters, that is all, most likely with limited staff and resources, as StormC said.

 

[Deleted member]

So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this event change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash?

She was my least favorite newcomer in the entire Smash franchise, period. More so than Corrin.

Now that the curtain has been lifted and the secret has been exposed, i hate her even more.

There's a reason as to why i don't like to express my disstaste about anything in general on these forums, so this is gonna be all i will say on the matter.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

*Sighs* The ballot wasn't a lie. It just wasn't used in the way we were told it would be used.

They likely intended to use it for Ultimate from the very beginning. "Bayo and Cloud weren't real Ballot winners." Who ****ing cares? It literally changes nothing. Sakurai made a little white lie once, big woop. This isn't news.

The only thing this basically confirms is that the ballot was meant for Ultimate. That means we likely are getting at least a few more newcomers so 1 or 2 is probably a poor guess moving forward.

Also, hate to break it to ya'll Bayo haters but just because Bayo was chosen preemptively doesn't mean she actually didn't do well on the ballot. She could have done very well but also just so happened to be the character they wanted to go with. Even if she wasn't, she's another Smash newcomer.....and the "real" ballot winners are likely on their way. Once again, what is there to complain about?

The Ballot was outright marketed as being used to decide DLC for Smash 4, and only some fine print on only the Japanese page for it stated it could also be used for future games. As I said in an earlier post, people shouldn't get upset about it as fans will get the characters chosen by the fans in the Ballot either way and I can't blame them for making up the story about Bayo being chosen for being the "ballot winner" as they had to save face somehow without announcing the plans for the new Smash so far out (which would in the process kill enthusiasm for Smash 4 and its DLC), but it is still nonetheless dishonest how the Ballot was handled.

 

[Iridium]

drew it in photoshop lol

I really should have guessed. If possible, could you try Scorpion & Sub-Zero? I know that they have a very low chance of getting in, but eh.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I’m now sad that Pit is being blocked by his inferior twin, a space dragon, and Miis

 

[SmashChu]

So doing some research, there are laws in Florida at least for false advertising. The maximum penalty is $10,000. Unfortunately, I can't do it as I don't own Bayonetta. That said, I support anyone who did buy her who 1)Has money and 2)Wants to get the ballot results to sue under your state statutes. Could also do it as a class action lawsuit to raise the dollar value.

*Sighs* The ballot wasn't a lie. It just wasn't used in the way we were told it would be used.

They likely intended to use it for Ultimate from the very beginning. "Bayo and Cloud weren't real Ballot winners." Who ****ing cares? It literally changes nothing. Sakurai made a little white lie once, big woop. This isn't news.

The only thing this basically confirms is that the ballot was meant for Ultimate. That means we likely are getting at least a few more newcomers so 1 or 2 is probably a poor guess moving forward.

Also, hate to break it to ya'll Bayo haters but just because Bayo was chosen preemptively doesn't mean she actually didn't do well on the ballot. She could have done very well but also just so happened to be the character they wanted to go with. Even if she wasn't, she's another Smash newcomer.....and the "real" ballot winners are likely on their way. Once again, what is there to complain about?

Nintendo told folks that they'd consider any suggestion for Smash Wii U/3DS which they clearly weren't. They claimed Bayo was added because of the ballot. They 100% lied about it. There is no denying that.

 

[Zinith]

Add: Boshi
Promote: Prince Fluff
Block: Midna

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

"Realizable" means "Done already"


If anything the Ballot picked the roster for this game. That's why I always say "Consider the Mii costumes when thinking about the roster this time."

Cuz I'm 85% sure that's your Base game right there.

So if were to get newcomers based off the DLC Mii costumes from the previous game I'm assuming possiblities could be:

1) Zero
2) Heihachi
3) Akira
4) King K. Rool
5) Lloyd Irving
6) Chrom
7) Monster Hunter
8) Viridi
9) Geno
10) Tails
11) Gilgamesh
12) Ashley

 

[Murlough]

The Ballot was outright marketed as being used to decide DLC for Smash 4, and only some fine print on only the Japanese page for it stated it could also be used for future games. As I said in an earlier post, people shouldn't get upset about it as fans will get the characters chosen by the fans in the Ballot either way and I can't blame them for making up the story about Bayo being chosen for being the "ballot winner" as they had to save face somehow without announcing the plans for the new Smash so far out (which would in the process kill enthusiasm for Smash 4 and its DLC), but it still nonetheless dishonest how the Ballot was handled

You literally just said what I said back at me.

I'm asking why anyone cares. Sakurai did what he did so he didn't completely reveal Ultimate. This should be a good thing! But no because Sakurai made a little lie its some serious thing when the issue at hand is "he's going to give us more characters we asked for."

So doing some research, there are laws in Florida at least for false advertising. The maximum penalty is $10,000. Unfortunately, I can't do it as I don't own Bayonetta. That said, I support anyone who did buy her who 1)Has money and 2)Wants to get the ballot results to sue under your state statutes. Could also do it as a class action lawsuit to raise the dollar value.


Nintendo told folks that they'd consider any suggestion for Smash Wii U/3DS which they clearly weren't. They claimed Bayo was added because of the ballot. They 100% lied about it. There is no denying that.

Which is why I ***ing said that in my post. Right at the top there. First sentence. I'm not denying anything. I'm saying it doesn't matter.

Edit: please stop telling people they should sue Sakurai....you're actually making me sick. It isn't false advertising. It isn't even as if what he said was unjust anyway. HE. IS. GIVING. US. MORE. CHARACTERS.WE.REQUESTED.

****ing sue him. That will show him! How dare he keep Ultimate a surprise. How dare he care about what his fans want?

 

[Makai Wars]

No, not at all. I know there takes more work into making those characters than that. I just might not have used the right words, and even then, that was just ONE possibility there. There are others to consider, too. I also knew about the rest you have said. I did not mean low effort if I did say it the way you may have thought I did. I just said they weren't seemingly as willing to make all new models for characters, that is all, most likely with limited staff and resources, as StormC said.

Ah then yes I misunderstood. But yeah, when it comes to making characters then it makes the most sense from both a game development position and a financial position to always take the route that involves getting something done faster, ESPECIALLY in a game as jam packed as Smash Bros.

She was my least favorite newcomer in the entire Smash franchise, period. More so than Corrin.

Now that the curtain has been lifted and the secret has been exposed, i like her even less.

This is a pretty valid stance to take as well, people on the anti-Bayo train probably feel really vindicated right now bahahaha. However I still think Corrin is far worse on the principal of getting in Smash solely for promotion, even when Sakurai thought there were too many FE characters. Bayo's illegitimate "victory" feels small scale in comparison, as the actual issue was pretending the ballot was for Smash 4 in the first place rather than Bayonetta herself.

 

[Onua]

I really should have guessed. If possible, could you try Scorpion & Sub-Zero? I know that they have a very low chance of getting in, but eh.

I made this.

 

[CannonStreak]

Ah then yes I misunderstood. But yeah, when it comes to making characters then it makes the most sense from both a game development position and a financial position to always take the route that involves getting something done faster, ESPECIALLY in a game as jam packed as Smash Bros.

Yeah, and with that said, I would not call them lazy. In fact, I say they were just trying to do their job.

I mean, Bayonetta was a surprise, but at least I have nothing against her being in.

 

[Takasmash]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422708115

 

[PLATINUM7]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422708115

Old Snake as an echo of Snake.

Calling it now.

 

[Ignoritus]

So doing some research, there are laws in Florida at least for false advertising. The maximum penalty is $10,000. Unfortunately, I can't do it as I don't own Bayonetta. That said, I support anyone who did buy her who 1)Has money and 2)Wants to get the ballot results to sue under your state statutes. Could also do it as a class action lawsuit to raise the dollar value.

There is a 0% chance of you making a false advertising claim out of this. Even if you could prove the incredibly bold statement that the character was sold to people on the basis of being the ballot winner (something I don't see happening, as being the ballot winner was not pushed as a reason to purchase the character), that little "realizable" word is a magical protection ward considering the word was never defined. "Realizable" means whatever they want it to here.

Not to mention that starting a lawsuit over this would just be downright petty. It's a $7 DLC character that was still extremely popular and delivered exactly what people were promised in their purchase. Starting a lawsuit because she didn't technically win a poll is something is something I don't expect anyone who has enough money to start a lawsuit to waste it on.


And all of this is on top of the assumption that Bayonetta having been planned is a provable statement beyond doubt despite the fact that all we have at this point is evidence of it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Wait, didn't that Dark Matter leak say Bayonetta was a fraud? Is that the strongest non-Das Vergeben leak now?

And people like us got called crazy for pointing it out and/or implying it could possibly mean anything more than "Shrek/Goku were DQed lol", it's new for a lot of people.

Honestly it might be.

Leak thread for reference:

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422214515/is-it-true-is-it-true-smash-smash-leak-leak
Newcomer Hints: Whip, Pic Related, Witch, Sliced Apple, Anime, Archer, House, Science, Cards.

Echo Hints: Prime, Edgy, Dog, Asthma, Blue Hair.

Assist Hints: Lego, Merchant Egg, Octopus, Divine, Dad, Pig.

Bayonetta Hint: Something was on purpose and rigged for victory. The ballot, the viability, one of those is correct, one of those is false.

Source: Someone you're all well aware of.

Famillia don't go linking to baseless claims. Anyone can go on /v/ and say "hey, I work at Nintendo, here's some dumb puzzle". Heck, I could go do that right now if I wanted. 4chan is the worst place to go for valid information.

Honestly.

For one thing, we covered this leak a good while ago (yesterday to be specific). For another thing, 4chan is pure cancer. If I can spare anyone the cost of going to 4chan I'll do that. And finally, this leak is likely baseless and fake.

Next time please check the 4chan thread compared to recent threads in the leaks count document (link in my signature).

 

[Makai Wars]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422708115

Famillia don't go linking to baseless claims. Anyone can go on /v/ and say "hey, I work at Nintendo, here's some dumb puzzle". Heck, I could go do that right now if I wanted. 4chan is the worst place to go for valid information.

 

[Pakky]

What did I miss? What's up with all the Bayo and rigged Ballot talk?

So if were to get newcomers based off the DLC Mii costumes from the previous game I'm assuming possiblities could be:

1) Zero
2) Heihachi
3) Akira
4) King K. Rool
5) Lloyd Irving
6) Chrom
7) Monster Hunter
8) Viridi
9) Geno
10) Tails
11) Gilgamesh
12) Ashley

give or take "flying man" but yeah

 

[Deleted member]

Context of what ruben_dal is saying about the non-influence of the ballot for Smash 3DS & Wii U:

https://twitter.com/Ruben_dal/status/1013925354682101760
https://twitter.com/Ruben_dal/status/1013926252892303360
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/page-2078#post-22176683
https://smashboards.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FDhIkYYoV4AEljq_.jpg&hash=8a715e473504f9a2e60141ed24ecb207

 

[KingBroly]

Old Snake as an echo of Snake.

Calling it now.

I was thinking Cranky Kong, but that's funnier.

 

[monadoboy]

Why are ppl even talking about suing and stuff? That's taking it a tad too far.

 

[CannonStreak]

Why are ppl even talking about suing and stuff? That's taking it a tad too far.

People are talking about suing? Where? I agree, that is getting messed up, and too far.

 

[Deleted member]

Broke: "The Ballot was totally rigged. Bayonetta shouldn't have been in Smash because X character actually won."

Woke: "Bayonetta was already going to be included, but there likely wasn't any lie in what was said about her placements."

 

[Radical Bones]

Why are ppl even talking about suing and stuff? That's taking it a tad too far.

Welcome to the Internet young man.

Everyone is an a-hole.

 

[P.Kat]

So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash?

Kinda, considering I voted for Shantae, Lyn, Krystal, Amaterasu, and, Sora only for Bayonetta to just slide right in, however there are worst picks for a ballot winner and I don't really hate Bayonetta considering I sometimes use her too (strangely I could never win with her against my friends). So ultimately I don't feel anything bad towards her.

 

[SmashChu]

Does her being added earlier than the ballot proves she didn't win, tho? Isn't it still possible she was number one in Europe and top 5 in US regardless of when she was developed/planned?

Negotiations may have taken place sooner, which could also be obtained in discovery. This is also why you'd get the ballot results so you can validate what actually happened. A big reason I'd want to see someone sue is to get the ballot results which you'd have to get because you are alleging that she didn't win and Nintendo never took your suggestion into consideration and never intended to.

As an aside, I might be able to sue on the fact that Nintendo enticed me to buy DLC by saying characters could be included but that's a stretch.

lol remember two weeks ago when i said bayo didn't win the ballot and gave very professional marketing-related points and no one believed me

Time converts more than reason.

Any chance you could repost it. Interested in reading now (or over PM if you don't want to clog this thread)

...Which is still true under this theory, just in technicality.


I don't think you understand how the legal system or false advertising works.

From the FTC (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising)
When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, backed by scientific evidence. The Federal Trade Commission enforces these truth-in-advertising laws, and it applies the same standards no matter where an ad appears – in newspapers and magazines, online, in the mail, or on billboards or buses.

Nintendo Directs and the Smash Direct are basically advertisements. Florida law is also lenient. From FL Statute 501.204(1) - https://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2010/TitleXXXIII/chapter501/501_204.html
Unfair methods of competition, unconscionable acts or practices, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful.

 

[Murlough]

There is a 0% chance of you making a false advertising claim out of this. Even if you could prove the incredibly bold statement that the character was sold to people on the basis of being the ballot winner (something I don't see happening, as being the ballot winner was not pushed as a reason to purchase the character), that little "realizable" word is a magical protection ward considering the word was never defined. "Realizable" means whatever they want it to here.

Not to mention that starting a lawsuit over this would just be downright petty. It's a $7 DLC character that was still extremely popular and delivered exactly what people were promised in their purchase. Starting a lawsuit because she didn't technically win a poll is something is something I don't expect anyone who has enough money to start a lawsuit to waste it on.


And all of this is on top of the assumption that Bayonetta having been planned is a provable statement beyond doubt despite the fact that all we have at this point is evidence of it.

Minor nitpick but when it comes to civil suits it isn't "proof beyond reasonable doubt" but "preponderance of evidence," that matters.

 

[Makai Wars]

Broke: "The Ballot was totally rigged. Bayonetta shouldn't have been in Smash because X character actually won."

Woke: "Bayonetta was already going to be included, but there likely wasn't any lie in what was said about her placements."

That....that doesn't make the ballot any less rigged. Even if say, a universally wanted character like Ridley, Inkling or K. Rool were the ballot winners and the DLC character in place of Bayo, if their development was started before the Ballot even went live, that still counts as rigged, regardless of whether or not they placed first. Yes Bayo is popular but the thing people are taking issue with is that the ballot didn't actually matter since she was set to win even if no one voted for her.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You all really need to appreciate how amazing the art is in Ultimate.

I mean this looks 4K, and the Switch does not even support 4K.

We all should thank Sakurai and his team for his work for this game instead of ranting.

Yeah, Kirby's Samus helmet has come a long way.

I’m just realizing the amount of shipswill have now...run

The list won't end! At least, depending on who else makes it in.

People are talking about suing? Where? I agree, that is getting messed up, and too far.

At this rate the forum will be torn apart and crash from flame wars before the first official new piece of information even comes out. Summer can't end any sooner.

 

[monadoboy]

I really, really, really hope this stuff about the ballot doesn't blow up at all.
Sakurai's had too much with people harassing him on twitter. I mean, the guy has put himself in the hospital making the games. Last thing he deserves is being called a liar/etc.

 

[Takasmash]

Will we get a newcomer announcement in the direct or out of nowhere.

 

[Murlough]

That....that doesn't make the ballot any less rigged. Even if say, a universally wanted character like Ridley, Inkling or K. Rool were the ballot winners and the DLC character in place of Bayo, if their development was started before the Ballot even went live, that still counts as rigged, regardless of whether or not they placed first. Yes Bayo is popular but the thing people are taking issue with is that the ballot didn't actually matter since she was set to win even if no one voted for her.

*Sighs* The ballot wasn't a lie. It just wasn't used in the way we were told it would be used.

They likely intended to use it for Ultimate from the very beginning. "Bayo and Cloud weren't real Ballot winners." Who ****ing cares? It literally changes nothing. Sakurai made a little white lie once, big woop. This isn't news.

The only thing this basically confirms is that the ballot was meant for Ultimate. That means we likely are getting at least a few more newcomers so 1 or 2 is probably a poor guess moving forward.

Also, hate to break it to ya'll Bayo haters but just because Bayo was chosen preemptively doesn't mean she actually didn't do well on the ballot. She could have done very well but also just so happened to be the character they wanted to go with. Even if she wasn't, she's another Smash newcomer.....and the "real" ballot winners are likely on their way. Once again, what is there to complain about?

It wasn't rigged. Thats not what rigged means. The ballot was unused until Ultimate, other than costumes, but it was not rigged.