Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

Wait, didn't that Dark Matter leak say Bayonetta was a fraud? Is that the strongest non-Das Vergeben leak now?

And people like us got called crazy for pointing it out and/or implying it could possibly mean anything more than "Shrek/Goku were DQed lol", it's new for a lot of people.

I and a bunch of DK people got called crazy and salty back in the day for bringing up how her "winning" the ballot made no sense objectively.

6 months for legal work, character work, animations, balancing, Kirby hat balancing, and she had a stage and multiple character trophies? Its possible but whew that's a lot to do in SIX MONTHS.

 

[SquashiniKun]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422708115

Can someone please post the leak's content here?

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Time converts more than reason.

Any chance you could repost it. Interested in reading now (or over PM if you don't want to clog this thread).

Here you go!

"Won the ballot" lol.

Correct me if they released the official tallies, but, while Bayonetta was popular, I feel like there were characters who blew her out of the water vote-wise. I'm only playing devil's advocate because I've worked in games before and I know how things happen behind the scenes from a marketing-perspective (at least going off the games that I've worked on). I honestly think that she was already planned based on a popularity prediction AND marketing: she's a popular 3rd party rep with a developer that Nintendo has a good relationship with on top of the fact that she had a NINTENDO EXCLUSIVE game that launched at about the same time as Smash 4. Bayonetta might've been in the top 10, but I definitely don't think she won the ballot (or was even in the top 5).

Again, I'm not saying this is definitely what happened. I'm just talking based on experience in the industry.

First of all, calm down, lol.

Secondly, as I said before, it comes down to marketing. Just because a company said something doesn't mean it holds that true value. By "most realizable" they probably mean "the easiest to market and make an extra buck off of." They're never going to flat out say that. The point of the poll was to gage a general interest in a pool of characters that can make them money and then pinpointing the best one.

Smash is basically Nintendo's #1 marketing platform. If, say, King K Rool actually won the poll, but Bayonetta was in the top, say, 20, then Bayonetta is the obvious choice to go with because they can make the most money off of that because of relevancy. On top of adding content to an already popular game, they're marketing another game on top of it, introducing a slew of players that might not know much about Bayonetta to begin with.

That said, I literally do not care that Bayonetta was added as the "poll winner". I might not care about her as a character, but I know a ton of other people do, so that's great! And she was a great choice from a marketing perspective, so even better! As I stated before. I've worked in the industry for years and I know how this stuff works. Especially from a marketing stand point. I'm not putting any bias behind what I'm saying.

 

[Ignoritus]

Minor nitpick but when it comes to civil suits it isn't "proof beyond reasonable doubt" but "preponderance of evidence," that matters.

I wasn't attempting to invoke the legal "shadow of a doubt" here but just use the expression. I understand it does not need be proven definitively, but what we know at this point doesn't even qualify as a preponderance of evidence.

From the FTC (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising)
When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, backed by scientific evidence. The Federal Trade Commission enforces these truth-in-advertising laws, and it applies the same standards no matter where an ad appears – in newspapers and magazines, online, in the mail, or on billboards or buses.

The ballot was not a product. Even if they what they said about its purpose was a deliberate lie (which I doubt), as long as they tell the truth about the resulting product it is not false advertisement.

As previously addressed, they did not lie about the resulting product because they framed it in ambiguous enough terms that their statements were true. Even if they did start Bayonetta before even seeing any results, it doesn't change what milestones she achieved in the ballot which were what Nintendo stated about the character. Do you believe 9/10 doctors really recommend every random health product in a television advertisement? Why do you think those companies are never hit with false advertisting suits? As long as you're careful with your words it takes a lot to invoke a false advertising lawsuit.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Negotiations may have taken place sooner, which could also be obtained in discovery. This is also why you'd get the ballot results so you can validate what actually happened. A big reason I'd want to see someone sue is to get the ballot results which you'd have to get because you are alleging that she didn't win and Nintendo never took your suggestion into consideration and never intended to.

As an aside, I might be able to sue on the fact that Nintendo enticed me to buy DLC by saying characters could be included but that's a stretch.

Time converts more than reason.

Any chance you could repost it. Interested in reading now (or over PM if you don't want to clog this thread)

From the FTC (https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising)
When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, backed by scientific evidence. The Federal Trade Commission enforces these truth-in-advertising laws, and it applies the same standards no matter where an ad appears – in newspapers and magazines, online, in the mail, or on billboards or buses.

Nintendo Directs and the Smash Direct are basically advertisements. Florida law is also lenient. From FL Statute 501.204(1) - https://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2010/TitleXXXIII/chapter501/501_204.html
Unfair methods of competition, unconscionable acts or practices, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful.

yes but nobody gives a ****

 

[NeonBurrito]

Can someone please post the leak's content here?

OK Kiddies, see if you can figure this one out.
>July
The characters “King” and “Ponytail” will be revealed in a mini direct
>August
The character “Old Man” will be revealed at years EVO
>September
The character “Archer” will be revealed in a direct of some kind
>October
The Characters “Warrior” & “Secretary” will be revealed in a Smash Ultimate focused Direct.
>November
The character “Mech” will be revealed in a surprise character announcement
>The other characters
The Characters “Rhythm” “Folklore” “Doll” and “Prime Ribs” won’t get reveal trailers until post release.

 

[kylexv]

So I was on vacation the last 5 days with terrible internet.

What did I miss the past 100 pages?

 

[Zerp]

I'm starting to feel a little upset that I made sure to only vote once on the ballot to avoid cheating, like, what's the point of that when Nintendo/Sakurai themselves cheated? Ugh.

 

[KingBroly]

The Ballot wasn't rigged. Bayonetta being DLC was already determined. They simply moved some numbers around to justify Bayonetta being playable.

How high did she really place? I dunno, but other characters definitely finished above her.

 

[Makai Wars]

It wasn't rigged. Thats not what rigged means. The ballot was unused until Ultimate, other than costumes, but it was not rigged.

But as posted earlier, Nintendo straight up said this was for Smash 4 DLC, not Ultimate. Everyone voting was under the impression that their vote would count toward getting their character in Smash 4. If the results were intended from the beginning to be used for Smash 5, then everyone was just straight up lied to and I'm not really sure which is worse.

 

[Zerp]

So I was on vacation the last 5 days with terrible internet.

What did I miss the past 100 pages?

The big thing is that we just learned that Bayonetta seemingly had been worked on waaaaaay before the ballot results were in, and that the ballot didn't really play a role in her inclusion.

 

[DGAMER]

Personal opinion-
The Smash Ballot was used as research to see if their character choices for Ultimate were correct. If Bayo was planned from the start, they figured they could pass it off as a winner instead of having to make a new character.

Note how Bayonetta won among all the "Realizable characters" By realizable, he meant that character concepts like K. Rool, Inkling and Ridley and other Ballot choices couldn't be made as fast a Bayonetta. Because Bayo placed high enough, they decided to add Bayo as the Ballot winner and save more dificult concepts for Smash Ultimate.

I don't think the ballot was rigged, but the devs simply took advantage of the fact that Bayo placed high to avoid having to make a character from scratch. (If they did went the route of creating a whole new Smash character, Ultimate would probably ramp up production at a more later date, and it probably wouldn't release in 2018, so I can see why they decided to do this. )

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

Broke: "The Ballot was totally rigged. Bayonetta shouldn't have been in Smash because X character actually won."

Woke: "Bayonetta was already going to be included, but there likely wasn't any lie in what was said about her placements."

Seriously, this.

Bayonetta winning the ballot makes sense. Nintendo fans were scattered all over the place voting for different characters, their votes were spread too thin amongst K. Rool, Ridley, Ashley, Daisy, etc. But Bayonetta came from a genre with very little competition, the hack and slash, beat 'em up action game. It's a popular genre, one that would translate beautifully into Smash Brothers, fans of that genre would probably vote for a character like that, and who is going to compete with Bayonetta? The only realistic one I can think of is Dante, and at the time the last DMC game was not that great. Add in her infectious self-confidence and it's easy to see why she could be a popular pick.

Also, sex appeal. Never underestimate the power of sex appeal.

 

[Deleted member]

That....that doesn't make the ballot any less rigged. Even if say, a universally wanted character like Ridley, Inkling or K. Rool were the ballot winners and the DLC character in place of Bayo, if their development was started before the Ballot even went live, that still counts as rigged, regardless of whether or not they placed first. Yes Bayo is popular but the thing people are taking issue with is that the ballot didn't actually matter since she was set to win even if no one voted for her.

The thing people don't seem to understand is that literally no one ever said that whoever had the most votes would get in. Not Sakurai, not Iwata, not whoever ran the site, no one.

Hell, no one even said the ballot would even get a character in. Just that the suggestion would put a character "in consideration when developing additional titles" in Iwata's own words.

So how can something be "rigged" if there was never any promise to begin with?

 

[Luminario]

Man, I picked the worst time to post that super-post that took me over an hour to write, huh?
Posting it when everyone's arguing about Bayonetta and Cloud and the ballot.

Eh, it is what it is.

Post it again in like half a day, I'm pretty curious at what other people envision their characters are like.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422708115

Please post more than a link. Like putting the full leak in spoilers for all of us to easily read.

 

[Wambo]

Here's something interesting: Nintendo released a Minecraft-themed 3DS in Japan. They've been really buddy-buddy with Microsoft and Minecraft lately, and this kinda adds more credibility to a leak we were discussing from a video on the Geno thread (involving Steve/Minecraft stage, Banjo-Kazooie/Spiral Mountain as DLC).

https://mynintendonews.com/2018/07/...eaf-mario-kart-7-minecraft-new-2ds-xl-models/

The leak basically mentioned:
-K.Rool/Dixie and Gangplank Galleon stage
-Geno and Monstro Town stage
-Black Shadow echo
-Spring Man
-Rex
-Simon Belmont
-Steve/Minecraft stage DLC
-Banjo-Kazooie/Spiral Mountain DLC
-Rayman DLC/stage
-Shovel Knight DLC
And a few other things.

 

[Untouch]

Pretty legitimate as its straight from the game's data.

It confirmed what I figured years ago. Bayo never won. It was suspicious how they said out of "realized" characters and how she never ranked in the biggest region of the world for Smash(US). What it does mean is that Nintendo, along with Sakurai, lied to users. The Smash Ballot specifically say "If you post a video game character, we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter." Iwata also describes it as such. Sakurai wanted the character, but thats all I figure the DLC was. It was his wishlist, not yours. This proves it.

The only reason this wouldn't be considered fraud has you had nothing riding on the ballot monetarily. However, you could bring a case against Nintendo for false advertising since Nintendo sold Bayonetta on the pretense that she "won" the ballot but she was always going to be in the game. Essentially, you could file a class action lawsuit to get your 7 bucks back (not considering punitive damages). AT a minimum, you could get the ballot in discovery which would be fun.

Here is the direct where they say they'll consider any fighter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMedqo8mLaQ

that exact link you posted actually says the exact opposite lol
you might want to actually watch it

it explicitly states that nintendo cannot accommodate all requests, without any further information, and stating that bayonetta was #1 from realizable characters, you don't have any legal ground, what would be considered a character that's realizable could be a character similar to ZSS for all we know

 

[Hinata]

Honestly it might be.

Leak thread for reference:

Spoiler: Leak

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422214515/is-it-true-is-it-true-smash-smash-leak-leak
Newcomer Hints: Whip, Pic Related, Witch, Sliced Apple, Anime, Archer, House, Science, Cards.

Echo Hints: Prime, Edgy, Dog, Asthma, Blue Hair.

Assist Hints: Lego, Merchant Egg, Octopus, Divine, Dad, Pig.

Bayonetta Hint: Something was on purpose and rigged for victory. The ballot, the viability, one of those is correct, one of those is false.

Source: Someone you're all well aware of.

>This leak mentions Ashley as a newcomer

Hell yeah. If it's true, I'm ****in' ready.

 

[Sharkarat]

Wow, didn't know about that datamine. but Bayonetta being planned doesn't necessarily mean she didn't also "win" as well. And like according to them she only actually won Europe, we just don't know why the other characters weren't realizable.

And I think people underestimate her being the main and title character of her own recently released game, it ends up giving her much more marketing. Like she got a notable amount of screentime in directs, which is where the majority of ballot voters might potentially come from. Bayonetta 2 (released Oct 23 2014) was possibly one of the WiiU releases (in the time period od 2014-15) most relevant to the ballot. other being
Tropical Freeze (wouldn't really do much for K. Rool, and smash already has the main character)
Captain Toad (A Mario spinoff. Overall in series not that big character)
Shantae/Shovel Knight (no offence, but i think Bayontta is slightly more recognizable than the indie stars)

the Smash communiy's favorite have different reason for why they could potentially lose to her. like they might be in top 10/20 just not 1st/top5.
- Ashley, Krystal, Bandana Dee, Waluigi, Skull Kid & Dixie are all secondary characters which means their series fanbase isn't quite that focused on them as they would on main characters.
- K. Rool is both a secondary character and haven't been in a game in 10 years.
- Banjo-Kazooie and Geno is mostly kept alive by older fans, and geno is only a secondary mario character,
- Golden sun was never that huge of a series.
- They hinted at cut veterans doing really well.
- Some popular 3rd parties might not have been realizable, like let say Sora or a Konami character.

The biggest lie might also have been that the ballot was for Smash 4.

 

[KingBroly]

But as posted earlier, Nintendo straight up said this was for Smash 4 DLC, not Ultimate. Everyone voting was under the impression that their vote would count toward getting their character in Smash 4. If the results were intended from the beginning to be used for Smash 5, then everyone was just straight up lied to and I'm not really sure which is worse.

I think they said they'd use it as consideration for Smash Wii U/3DS DLC and future Smash games. I don't believe there was a guarantee.

 

[Murlough]

I wasn't attempting to invoke the legal "shadow of a doubt" here but just use the expression. I understand it does not need be proven definitively, but what we know at this point doesn't even qualify as a preponderance of evidence.

Sorry, you were talking legal talk and I saw "beyond doubt" and assumed. Otherwise, yeah gald you are here to correct that. I actually didn't know for sure if that was false advertising until you came in so thank you.

And yeah no it isn't even close to preponderance, I wasn't implying otherwise.

But as posted earlier, Nintendo straight up said this was for Smash 4 DLC, not Ultimate. Everyone voting was under the impression that their vote would count toward getting their character in Smash 4. If the results were intended from the beginning to be used for Smash 5, then everyone was just straight up lied to and I'm not really sure which is worse.

While I agree, he shouldn't have said that if he didn't intend to go through with it from the beginning, he is still giving us some of those characters now. With Sakurai's track record he doesn't deserve to catch hate for such a minor offense.

You can be upset that he isn't a perfect human being if you want but the man has done countless good things for us as fans and it hurts me to see people turn on him over something so pointlessly overblown. He fibbed. Lets not act like he's EA please. Remember everything else he's done and then tell me you are mad at him for this one thing.

I just can't understand that. Ultimate is all but a love letter to the fans and this tiny little thing makes people upset.......just.......what? Come on guys...

 

[Makai Wars]

The thing people don't seem to understand is that literally no one ever said that whoever had the most votes would get in. Not Sakurai, not Iwata, not whoever ran the site, no one.

Hell, no one even said the ballot would even get a character in. Just that the suggestion would put a character "in consideration when developing additional titles" in Iwata's own words.

So how can something be "rigged" if there was never any promise to begin with?

Soooo we got lied to.
I mean, pick your poison, the takeaway here is that the ballot did not actually mean anything when it came to Smash 4, or Bayonetta, despite the fact that Nintendo lead us to believe otherwise, that's the problem people are having.

I have no problem with Bayonetta being in Smash, she's cool and her getting in made me interested in getting her games (which, now that I think about it, was prrrooobably Nintendo's intention from the very beginning)

I just can't understand that. Ultimate is all but a love letter to the fans and this tiny little thing makes people upset.......just.......what? Come on guys...

The ballot was not tiny, did you forget the entire internet collapsed with people doing everything they could to get their characters in Smash? Hardcore fans, game developers, casuals, everyone was talking about it. Yes, we're seeing the results with Ultimate giving us every Smash fighter and I'm not bashing Ultimate in the slightest, I just dislike the fact that the ballot didn't mean anything during it's runtime despite what Nintendo told us.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

>This leak mentions Ashley as a newcomer

Hell yeah. If it's true, I'm ****in' ready.

Just says Witch. Could be Gruntilda.

 

[Hinata]

Just says Witch. Could be Gruntilda.

I'd rather die than see that happen.

 

[SmashChu]

There is a 0% chance of you making a false advertising claim out of this. Even if you could prove the incredibly bold statement that the character was sold to people on the basis of being the ballot winner (something I don't see happening, as being the ballot winner was not pushed as a reason to purchase the character), that little "realizable" word is a magical protection ward considering the word was never defined. "Realizable" means whatever they want it to here.

Not to mention that starting a lawsuit over this would just be downright petty. It's a $7 DLC character that was still extremely popular and delivered exactly what people were promised in their purchase. Starting a lawsuit because she didn't technically win a poll is something is something I don't expect anyone who has enough money to start a lawsuit to waste it on.


And all of this is on top of the assumption that Bayonetta having been planned is a provable statement beyond doubt despite the fact that all we have at this point is evidence of it.

Here is the Direct showcasing it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1JERhUoQoU#t=20m59s

They literally say she won the ballot and it implies that is why she is in. These Direct are basically advertisements. Nintendo would have to prove otherwise which I suspect they'd have trouble with. The point I am making is Nintendo told you A)We'll consider any character you suggest and B)Bayonetta was the top out of realizable choices

Here is a basic description of False Advertising - https://consumer.laws.com/deceptive-advertising/deceptive-advertising-definition
Deceptive advertising, also known as false advertising, refers to a manufacturer's use of confusing, misleading, or blatantly untrue statements when promoting a product

All of that fits this situation. Nintendo made untrue statements saying they'd consider your choices for Smash Wii U/3DS (they never did). They used confusing and misleading language ("realizable" characters, which we now know is just code for characters we didn't want to add). I've shown you what the FTC describes it as and what Florida Statutes say. At this point, you are just defending a company.

that exact link you posted actually says the exact opposite lol
you might want to actually watch it

it explicitly states that nintendo cannot accommodate all requests, without any further information, and stating that bayonetta was #1 from realizable characters, you don't have any legal ground, what would be considered a character that's realizable could be a character similar to ZSS for all we know

Except they said they would consider them. Obviously if they already decided to add Bayo, then they didn't consider them at all did they.

 

[Zerp]

Just going to throw out that the Ballot wasn't rigged, if nobody else was "realizable" (notice how insanely vague this word is, it can mean literally any characters you want to) from the beginning then she did in fact win legitimately, but it's still very misleading advertising and I find it scummy.

 

[Radical Bones]

Taken directly from the ballot site:

The problem isn't that Bayonetta didn't 'win'.

The problem is that the community decided that the ballot was something that could be won.

 

[Deleted member]

Soooo we got lied to.
I mean, pick your poison, the takeaway here is that the ballot did not actually mean anything when it came to Smash 4, or Bayonetta, despite the fact that Nintendo lead us to believe otherwise, that's the problem people are having.

I have no problem with Bayonetta being in Smash, she's cool and her getting in made me interested in getting her games (which, now that I think about it, was prrrooobably Nintendo's intention from the very beginning)


The ballot was not tiny, did you forget the entire internet collapsed with people doing everything they could to get their characters in Smash? Hardcore fans, game developers, casuals, everyone was talking about it. Yes, we're seeing the results with Ultimate giving us every Smash fighter and I'm not bashing Ultimate in the slightest, I just dislike the fact that the ballot didn't mean anything during it's runtime despite what Nintendo told us.

"Never any promise to begin with"

"OH MAH GOD WE GOT LIED TO"
....no.

How CAN there be a ****ing lie? Literally everything that is being claimed that we were "lied" to about was OUR OWN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT WAS SAID.

 

[CannonStreak]

I never thought the ballot was rigged. As said before, I thought the likes of Bayonetta and others were chosen before the ballot, and I don't think the votes made for the ballot were all for naught, if Ultimate at least has some of those characters. However, I do find the fact that they said Bayonetta was the ballot winner when that is seemingly not the case otherwise was rather, erm, cheap, for a lack of a better word.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Here's a game for you all, suggest up to four characters, in the form of character pitches. Like how in that Smash 4 design document that describes what Rosalina, Robin and Duck Hunt can do as a Smash Fighter.

You must provide a short description of what the character can do (you can relate them to other fighters to give a clearer idea of what they do) and a theme for the character.

Okay, got mine done. Really only have three characters that I want to see - and if the top one gets in, I'll never ask Sakurai for anything ever again...

Dovahkiin
The player character of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, who has the power to slay dragons and absorb their essence. He is seen in most art in his iconic look with a longsword but can also use a shield or dagger in the off-hand for some normal attacks. Special moves will be based on Dragon Shouts, allowing him to knock back enemies or summon fireballs or blizzards. He can charge each special shout for a more powerful version (three stages: uncharged, half charge, full charge), but then he will have a longer cooldown time before he can use another. The cool-down timer is relatively short but affects all shouts, so his recovery is severely hindered when it is active. His Final Smash involves riding a dragon to torch the stage. As he is customizable in the base game, costume options will involve different races and genders.
Theme: Chargeable specials, cool-down timers

King K. Rool
A large overweight crocodile who serves as the major villain for the Donkey Kong universe. His villainy is of a much more zany sort than Ganondorf and Ridley, and as such his moveset utilizes a lot of hammerspace props. Each of his final battles in his various games gave him a different persona and a whole set of new props and attacks to work with. Many of his specials will rely on pulling out a random item to reference one of his games and he will focus heavily on projectile play. He will also serve as another superheavyweight which will allow for some tremor ground-pound attacks. While all of his costumes are well known, his most famous is Kaptain K. Rool from Donkey Kong Country 2, and he will be able to use that as a costume option.
Theme: Superheavyweight, Projectile/Zoner

Urbosa
Legendary champion of the Gerudo from Zelda: Breath of the Wild. She uses a scimitar and a shield as her primary weapon, but also has the power to summon lightning blasts to stun enemies. She fights much more aggressively than Link – she does not have his automatic projectile block, but instead uses the shield to attack and throw for some of her Smash attacks. Her normal attacks are like a dance – low-damage and very fast, while many of her specials are slow but powerful electric attacks. Her neutral special can act as a paralyzer in a small radius around her. She also uses her shield in a parry which can both reflect projectiles and counter attacks with a sword flurry. Her Final Smash is an energy beam from her Divine Beast.
Theme: Dancer, Lightning paralyzer

That was fun. Now I want to come up with a full moveset for Dovahkiin again. I love to keep thinking about how the Dragonborn could work as a character, but it’s a bit disheartening that there’s a negative three percent chance of that ever happening…

 

[Blargg888]

The Smash Ballot was all a lie?

That's so sad. Alexa, play the D.K. rap.

Alexa: Right. Playing, "DK Rap"

It's possible that Bayo was already planned in development before the ballot.
The fact that she was ranked high in the votes (or might have won it) means that the devs lucked out since she was already in development as a fighter.

Still, I would like to see the actual votes from the ballot or hear Sakurai say something about it. If he ever does.

On one hand, I want to say that that's way to convenient of a coincidence to actually be true, but on the other hand, life experience has told me that there have been many more contrived coincidences in life, so who knows?

I’m now sad that Pit is being blocked by his inferior twin, a space dragon, and Miis

Wait, what are you talking about?

 

[Untouch]

for all we know, anything that wasn't bayonetta wasn't considered "realizable"
and no, they dont even say whatever actually gets #1 is getting in, it just says all characters are considered, it never even explicitly says that the #1 character is 100% getting in

 

[Zinith]

Why all of a sudden ballot talk?

 

[PSIGuy]

XC2 started development in 2014, which isn't too late. It puts Elma in a weird spot since she's no longer relevant and not post enough for the ballot.

Characters don't get in based on when their games started development, they never have. XB2's starting development is completely irrelevant to Smash. It's release date and even reveal date on the other hand are away after development started.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not sire I can buy the whole rigged ballot thing, I can beleive that they tossed characters that they they couldn't do like Goku or something of the sort. Bayonetta I can believe being popular enough to warrent attention and enough to suggest of the "realizable characters" which is vague enough to give wiggle room on how to use her results.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I'm starting to feel a little upset that I made sure to only vote once on the ballot to avoid cheating, like, what's the point of that when Nintendo/Sakurai themselves cheated? Ugh.

To be used in Smash Ultimate.
Even if Bayonetta had nothing to do with the ballot, the idea that all the votes were thrown away is a bit silly. It just turns out that we may be getting those ballot characters a bit later than Smash 4 DLC.

 

[KingBroly]

Taken directly from the ballot site:

View attachment 151191

The problem isn't that Bayonetta didn't 'win'.

The problem is that the community decided that the ballot was something that could be won.

Yeah. They just kept eliminating characters from the top until they got to her.

 

[Untouch]

Why all of a sudden ballot talk?

Dataminers found out that ZSS data that would eventually become bayonetta was added before the ballot even finished, suggesting that bayonetta was being added before the ballot even ended.

 

[UltimateWario]

Seems like just saying "We're having a ballot for the next Smash Bros. game, please vote on your favorite characters!" then just throwing out the DLC characters for whatever reason would've at least not caused a ruckus.

That said, people talking about legal action is absolutely ridiculous. If you want to get upset about something with that DLC, get upset about how the DLC cost nearly the same price as the game itself altogether.