Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

The attack of my bandana bots to the Smash ballot could mean something! /s


Also, guys, Bayonetta did not use ZSS's skeleton, it was Dedede's skeleton.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...the Holy Trinity

You are joking.....

Also why am I feeling Elma is more likely than Pyra?
I mean at least Elma has a much better design than Pyra.
Also Sakurai could of added the characters in early 2016. I think it might be a bit difficult for the XC2 characters to come, but they have a chance.

I never joke when told not to say something

 

[Takasmash]

The more I look at Daisy or Ridley its like project m work.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Well you can start development on a third party character before a license agreement. You just run the risk of not being able to use the character and having wasted time.

You can't put third party data into your game until the finalization is done (I remember this topic coming up back when Ryu's data was data mined and people pointed out that you're still liable even if it's unused data), also it would be very dumb from a development standpoint to start developing a character whose usage isn't finalized yet.

 

[UltimateWario]

That's not clickbaity enough, it needs some flare. Make it so you "travel to Japan" and "steal Sakurai's laptop" that has all the ballot results in English. Maybe a little dash of (SAKURAI FOUND ME) or (SAKURAI KILLED ME)

[LITERALLY MURDERED] Epic Smash Bros. Ballot Prank EXPOSED (Laughing Emoji Laughing Emoji Laughing Emoji 100 100 100)

 

[PSIguy89]

Well.....isn’t this a juicy little development. I think what Swamp Sensei said about the ballot is more than likely very accurate. I’m not the least bit surprised to find out Bayo was NOT the true ballot winner lol who was? That might not ever be shown at this point, Nintendo would have to do backpedaling

 

[KMDP]

Man, I picked the worst time to post that super-post that took me over an hour to write, huh?
Posting it when everyone's arguing about Bayonetta and Cloud and the ballot.

Eh, it is what it is.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ok why has this come up now? I'm sorry but I don't follow why this is coming up now and is valid and believeable... Wouldn't this have come up earlier?


I'd argue Robin & Chrom. Chrom was literally passed over because he didn't bring anything to the table.

HOWEVER and I know this, it's not the same thing with Springman because even if he's the most bland ARMS fighter he still represents a new and unique way to fight. But just wanted to point out I think you can say Sakurai has passed over the more bpand option, it just depends on how we are defining bland.

I do want to note that when I said "inaugural" I meant the first character in a series. Chrom and Robin are not the same thing here, though I would still argue that Robin and Chrom are equals as far as being the main character of the story in Awakening.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

The Smash Ballot was a lie?

That's so sad. Alexa, play the D.K. rap.

 

[KingBroly]

Well.....isn’t this a juicy little development. I think what Swamp Sensei said about the ballot is more than likely very accurate. I’m not the least bit surprised to find out Bayo was NOT the true ballot winner lol who was? That might not ever be shown at this point, Nintendo would have to do backpedaling

Probably Snake

That's where it was stated "EVERYONE IS HERE" in the trailer. They've also said 'back by popular demand' with Snake a few times.

 

[PLATINUM7]

You can't put third party data into your game until the finalization is done (I remember this topic coming up back when Ryu's data was data mined and people pointed out that you're still liable even if it's unused data), also it would be very dumb from a development standpoint to start developing a character whose usage isn't finalized yet.

It's not uncommon for people to develop things and then present it to the rights holders in hopes of being allowed to continue making the full product. Things don't always pan out but in those cases things usually gets reworked. Obviously by the time Ryu's data was added the license between Nintendo and Capcom USA were worked out.

While I doubt in the case of Smash 4 Sakurai worked on the 3rd parties before working out a deal, it wouldn't be the first time something like this happened in Smash. Sakurai made a working version of SSB64 before getting approval to use the Nintendo characters.

 

[Wambo]

Falco is the "fighter of the day" or whatever.

C'mon Sakuraaaai, we need dat sweet character reveal to ruin Vergeben's credibility...

 

[Makai Wars]

Well.....isn’t this a juicy little development. I think what Swamp Sensei said about the ballot is more than likely very accurate. I’m not the least bit surprised to find out Bayo was NOT the true ballot winner lol who was?

Spoiler

While I doubt in the case of Smash 4 Sakurai worked on the 3rd parties before working out a deal, it wouldn't be the first time something like this happened in Smash. Sakurai made a working version of SSB64 before getting approval to use the Nintendo characters.

Wasn't that the demo with the blocky multicolored dudes that Captain Falcon was made from? Or was there another beta with all the actual Nintendo characters playable?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Man, I picked the worst time to post that super-post that took me over an hour to write, huh?
Posting it when everyone's arguing about Bayonetta and Cloud and the ballot.

Eh, it is what it is.

Oh don't worry, it was a fun game concept and I'm going for it....but it'll probably take me a while to write it up, so prepare for me posting an absolute non-sequitur five pages from now.

 

[Starbound]

Falco is the "fighter of the day" or whatever.

C'mon Sakuraaaai, we need dat sweet character reveal to ruin Vergeben's credibility...

Wouldn't the only thing that would discredit Verge be a Simon assist trophy?

I don't think he said who the next character reveal would be.

 

[UltimateWario]

Bayonetta always struck me as an odd choice, considering that despite her popularity she's still pretty much a nobody compared to other 3rd parties and bigger Nintendo characters, among the other strange things about her. Cloud seemed weird just because he's very obviously a "Playstation All-Star" and the rivalry between FFVII and OoT wasn't nearly as generation-defining as Mario vs. Sonic.

But they're in now and there's no point in getting upset over it. I feel a large part of the reason these two particular characters are disliked is because of how they basically destroyed the established meta when they showed up. I didn't play Smash 4 so I didn't actually know about Cloud and Bayo being big boys until recently, but looking at it from the outside, it must have really sucked for everyone to have put a lot of time into this game only for these two to show up and start running the show. Especially for them to be paid DLC.

All in all, I hope Ultimate fixes those problems so these characters can be enjoyed by everyone without a negative stigma being attached.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Oh great, now every "leak" is going to be a list of the "real" winners.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

It's not uncommon for people to develop things and then present it to the rights holders in hopes of being allowed to continue making the full product. Things don't always pan out but in those cases things usually gets reworked. Obviously by the time Ryu's data was added the license between Nintendo and Capcom USA were worked out.

While I doubt in the case of Smash 4 Sakurai worked on the 3rd parties before working out a deal, it wouldn't be the first time something like this happened in Smash. Sakurai made a working version of SSB64 before getting approval to use the Nintendo characters.

It's not just developing it on the side, they put the data into a patch that put it on the actual released game. Also Smash 64 was intended to be its own fighting game originally and the idea to add Nintendo characters came to it later. Additionally in every Smash game since then Sakurai plans out the roster before doing any actual development, DLC shouldn't be any different, as it's basic development sense.

 

[Hinata]

Falco is the "fighter of the day" or whatever.

C'mon Sakuraaaai, we need dat sweet character reveal to ruin Vergeben's credibility...

Vergeben is this speculation cycle's Sal Romano. Some people are rooting for his credibility, others want him to be disproven as soon as possible.

 

[Radical Bones]

I did always think that the ballot results were... interesting. The way that they announced Bayo was never concrete - 'realisable' always stuck out to me.

No arguing that Bayo isn't a popular character, but the DLC was pretty weird.

I've always assumed the ballot was for future games anyway. I hope Sakurai uses that data for this game's newcomers.

 

[Will]

Well.....isn’t this a juicy little development. I think what Swamp Sensei said about the ballot is more than likely very accurate. I’m not the least bit surprised to find out Bayo was NOT the true ballot winner lol who was? That might not ever be shown at this point, Nintendo would have to do backpedaling

There are no "winners" IMO, it's just you ranking high. Being a winner means you were picked, after all.

 

[SmashChu]

How much legitimacy do you think this has?

https://twitter.com/Virum_SD/status/1013939722870116353

Pretty legitimate as its straight from the game's data.

It confirmed what I figured years ago. Bayo never won. It was suspicious how they said out of "realized" characters and how she never ranked in the biggest region of the world for Smash(US). What it does mean is that Nintendo, along with Sakurai, lied to users. The Smash Ballot specifically say "If you post a video game character, we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter." Iwata also describes it as such. Sakurai wanted the character, but thats all I figure the DLC was. It was his wishlist, not yours. This proves it.

The only reason this wouldn't be considered fraud has you had nothing riding on the ballot monetarily. However, you could bring a case against Nintendo for false advertising since Nintendo sold Bayonetta on the pretense that she "won" the ballot but she was always going to be in the game. Essentially, you could file a class action lawsuit to get your 7 bucks back (not considering punitive damages). AT a minimum, you could get the ballot in discovery which would be fun.

Here is the direct where they say they'll consider any fighter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMedqo8mLaQ

 

[PLATINUM7]

Spoiler

Wasn't that the demo with the blocky multicolored dudes that Captain Falcon was made from? Or was there another beta with all the actual Nintendo characters playable?

After making a prototype of Dragon King The Fighting Game, Sakurai made a prototype to get approval for Smash with Mario, Donkey Kong, Samus and Fox.


Also, the Japanese Smash Blog has the Farewell to Falco comic.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Well.....isn’t this a juicy little development. I think what Swamp Sensei said about the ballot is more than likely very accurate. I’m not the least bit surprised to find out Bayo was NOT the true ballot winner lol who was? That might not ever be shown at this point, Nintendo would have to do backpedaling

The Smash Ballot was all a lie?

Why are people acting like this is new or obscure information? You can literally see it explicitly said in her announcement trailer. We've known this for longer than she's actually been in the game.

That's so sad. Alexa,

delete this

 

[KMDP]

Oh don't worry, it was a fun game concept and I'm going for it....but it'll probably take me a while to write it up, so prepare for me posting an absolute non-sequitur five pages from now.

Yeah, I got super into writing the blurbs and fully expected the thread to zoom ahead and have my game concept be lost in an argument or something. This game requires a lot of creativity and thought, so it should bring some great ideas, along with weird non-sequiturs mid-discussion.

*tents fingers* Good... good...

 

[Blargg888]

So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash?

Nah, not really.

I have a few reasons for this, but my main reason is that when it comes to Smash, I'm very lenient as far as additions go.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So far this is possibly how the css will look like in Smash Ultimate (only if they’re actually gonna be in appearance order (while the echoes are right next to who they copy)




ultshulk:

...seems like Dark Pit is gonna kill thex/combo

 

[CannonStreak]

So, with Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta being based off of characters such as Ike and Zero Suit Samus, anyone else feel that they just didn't want to go the full effort with making all new models for characters to make overall new characters? I mean, I could be wrong, but that is how I am starting to see it. I mean, it takes less effort to base a character's model off of another than to make a new one overall, doesn't it now?

 

[Murlough]

*Sighs* The ballot wasn't a lie. It just wasn't used in the way we were told it would be used.

They likely intended to use it for Ultimate from the very beginning. "Bayo and Cloud weren't real Ballot winners." Who ****ing cares? It literally changes nothing. Sakurai made a little white lie once, big woop. This isn't news.

The only thing this basically confirms is that the ballot was meant for Ultimate. That means we likely are getting at least a few more newcomers so 1 or 2 is probably a poor guess moving forward.

Also, hate to break it to ya'll Bayo haters but just because Bayo was chosen preemptively doesn't mean she actually didn't do well on the ballot. She could have done very well but also just so happened to be the character they wanted to go with. Even if she wasn't, she's another Smash newcomer.....and the "real" ballot winners are likely on their way. Once again, what is there to complain about?

 

[StormC]

So, with Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta being based off of characters such as Ike and Zero Suit Samus, anyone else feel that they just didn't want to go the full effort with making all new models for characters to make overall new characters? I mean, I could be wrong, but that is how I am starting to see it. I mean, it takes less effort to base a character's model off of another than to make a new one overall, doesn't it now?

More likely they were limited on time and resources with a smaller development team.

 

[monadoboy]

Pretty legitimate as its straight from the game's data.

It confirmed what I figured years ago. Bayo never won. It was suspicious how they said out of "realized" characters and how she never ranked in the biggest region of the world for Smash(US). What it does mean is that Nintendo, along with Sakurai, lied to users. The Smash Ballot specifically say "If you post a video game character, we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter." Iwata also describes it as such. Sakurai wanted the character, but thats all I figure the DLC was. It was his wishlist, not yours. This proves it.

The only reason this wouldn't be considered fraud has you had nothing riding on the ballot monetarily. However, you could bring a case against Nintendo for false advertising since Nintendo sold Bayonetta on the pretense that she "won" the ballot but she was always going to be in the game. Essentially, you could file a class action lawsuit to get your 7 bucks back (not considering punitive damages). AT a minimum, you could get the ballot in discovery which would be fun.

Here is the direct where they say they'll consider any fighter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMedqo8mLaQ

Does her being added earlier than the ballot proves she didn't win, tho? Isn't it still possible she was number one in Europe and top 5 in US regardless of when she was developed/planned?

 

[Zerp]

Wait, didn't that Dark Matter leak say Bayonetta was a fraud? Is that the strongest non-Das Vergeben leak now?

Why are people acting like this is new or obscure information? You can literally see it explicitly said in her announcement trailer. We've known this for longer than she's actually been in the game.

And people like us got called crazy for pointing it out and/or implying it could possibly mean anything more than "Shrek/Goku were DQed lol", it's new for a lot of people.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

lol remember two weeks ago when i said bayo didn't win the ballot and gave very professional marketing-related points and no one believed me

 

[CannonStreak]

More likely they were limited on time and resources with a smaller development team.

Yeah, that too. That is another possibility, and a good one. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Nexus Nova]

It's possible that Bayo was already planned in development before the ballot.
The fact that she was ranked high in the votes (or might have won it) means that the devs lucked out since she was already in development as a fighter.

Still, I would like to see the actual votes from the ballot or hear Sakurai say something about it. If he ever does.

 

[Ignoritus]

What it does mean is that Nintendo, along with Sakurai, lied to users. The Smash Ballot specifically say "If you post a video game character, we'll consider turning that character into a Smash fighter." Iwata also describes it as such.

...Which is still true under this theory, just in technicality.

The only reason this wouldn't be considered fraud has you had nothing riding on the ballot monetarily. However, you could bring a case against Nintendo for false advertising since Nintendo sold Bayonetta on the pretense that she "won" the ballot but she was always going to be in the game. Essentially, you could file a class action lawsuit to get your 7 bucks back (not considering punitive damages). AT a minimum, you could get the ballot in discovery which would be fun.

I don't think you understand how the legal system or false advertising works.

 

[CannonStreak]

It's possible that Bayo was already planned in development before the ballot.
The fact that she was ranked high in the votes (or might have won it) means that the devs lucked out since she was already in development as a fighter.

Still, I would like to see the actual votes from the ballot or hear Sakurai say something about it. If he ever does.

Wow, that was exactly what I was thinking, actually.

 

[Zerp]

lol remember two weeks ago when i said bayo didn't win the ballot and gave very professional marketing-related points and no one believed me

I thought the fact that she was niche and had a hardcore gamer audience, not casuals, should've made it really suspicious that she had low voter turn out in all the Smash polls yet somehow had a silent majority vote her above King K. Rool and Snake who were absolutely dominating those.

 

[Makai Wars]

So, with Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta being based off of characters such as Ike and Zero Suit Samus, anyone else feel that they just didn't want to go the full effort with making all new models for characters to make overall new characters? I mean, I could be wrong, but that is how I am starting to see it. I mean, it takes less effort to base a character's model off of another than to make a new one overall, doesn't it now?

I mean, that's kind of how game development works. You cut costs when you're able to. I work in game development professionally so finding out X character was based off of Y character using shared assets isn't too shocking.
You seem to be under the impression that simply because a character shares assets with another character, that that instantly makes them a low effort addition all together and that's simply factually untrue. How many animations does Bayo ACTUALLY share with ZSS? How many move properties? Bayo had to be balance tested from the ground up as well as have all her moves animated and polished as much as any other newcomer, they were just able to save a bit of time since Bayo and ZSS have a similar body type.

 

[Onua]

Made a mock up of a potential Raiden stock icon cause why not

 

[ReeseBalaski]

Why are people acting like this is new or obscure information? You can literally see it explicitly said in her announcement trailer. We've known this for longer than she's actually been in the game.


delete this

I mean, I never really cared, I was just making a joke.

A good joke that I will not delete, my good Moped.