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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Blargg888

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HOWEVER and I know this, it's not the same thing with Springman because even if he's the most bland ARMS fighter he still represents a new and unique way to fight.
That's true.

Springman may not be the most interesting fighter in his own game, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be interesting in Smash.

Translating the ARMS fighting style to Smash's gameplay style could make Springman unique by virtue of being the same, simply because it would bring in elements and attributes from another game.

The exact same thing could be said about Ryu as well.
 

Hinata

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So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
Nope. Like I said, I voted for her anyway, so the ballot being rigged doesn't affect me.
 

Omega Tyrant

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Unless I misunderstand, it sounds like the data in 1.0.6 was just a carbon copy of Ike and ZSS, correct? If not then I understand where you're coming from, but if it's just copied numbers to get development started, then why not? If Square came back and said no about Cloud, well they had just picked Ike's model data. He's a relatively generic male frame, and ZSS fits that for female frames too. Not that I have a particularly in-depth understanding of the character creation process, but I feel like they could have started a multitude of characters from that point.
Cloning works by which characters make the process mechanically easiest. It's why Cloud gets cloned specifically off of Ike to start development (and later Corrin) and Bayo gets cloned off of Zamus, then they alter them from there into the final product. You also can't start development on a third party character before the licensing is finished.
 

NeonBurrito

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Going off of this there was no reason to have the ballot open for what? 5, 6 months? Going off of who got the most votes FASTEST kind of undermines the entire point of having a poll to begin with, that's more like a race.
Likely in order to get some results for Smash Ultimate newcomers, like the Japanese website said it would.
So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
Nope, because I never liked her in the first place. I've always thought that having her stand alongside characters like Cloud Strife, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Pac-Man was nonsensical.
But hey, that's just me. Power to anyone that likes her.
 

Makai Wars

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The beauty of having access to multiple computer labs with different IP addresses, as well as wording each one differently...and a VPN or two. :^)
Wow I am suddenly REALLY CURIOUS about Robin's Final Smash.
It is kinda upsetting that they mislead us like that. But I do think the Ballot is the reason why we got “Everyone is Here” as the theme for ultimate. I think Snake and Wolf topped the ballot and it made Sakurai realize people wanted the vets back badly, leading him to bring back every vet ever. So that’s why I’m not up in arms about my vote “not mattering”, because it clearly did: it got me Snake back. He even said it himself -“back by popular demand.”
You know, this is the absolute best way to look at it, I mean think about it, there were so many people rallying together to vote for their cut veteran back, I know I was rabid about my devotion to get ICs to return, and I know there were just as many people voting for Snake, or Wolf. I bet, I BET that the vast majority of high placing characters on the Ballot were cut veterans and Sakurai answered the call and just brought them all back while also not cutting anybody. This was the best way to meet the demands of a huge group of fans no matter how you slice it.
This is embarassing to admit but I got really teary eyed when I saw Lucas come back, and I just lost it when I saw my precious ICs again in HD ;___;
Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
Not really, she's a fine addition, OP or not. I do think claiming she was the ballot winner feels a bit dishonest, Sakurai should have been more up front about the ballot's actual intentions so people (like me and multitude of other Smash fans) didn't get their hopes up and start big community voting efforts only to find out none of it ACTUALLY mattered at the time. Yes, the fruits of our labor is showing NOW but just think of how many crushed spirits there were after that last direct.
 
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StormC

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So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
Nah. It's cool that she's in the game and she fits well. I just wish it didn't happen like this. So much arguing over nothing.
 

Pakky

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Wait, seriously? Bayonetta started as a ZSS clone?
More like ZSS was a Bayo clone.

The Heels

The bust size increase only to be decreased now, at a time where everyone is getting "retooled"

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE


I love Bayo but I knew years ago that Ballot was a ruse and suspected that the costumes were consolation prizes.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
...Except this datamine supposedly proves Cloud was built from Ike early on.
Really? I never knew about that. I should never put myself higher than you. You are right. :p

PLEASE DO NOT SAY CLOUD IS AN IKE CLONE.
So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
I do not care that much, but thinking about Bayo, Pac-Man, Sonic, Mega Man...
THEY ARE ALL HERE! So we need Bayo in Smash. :p
 
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vaanrose

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Game development is non-linear.

Which is to say, you might think the process of creating a character is first you design the moveset, then you build the model, then you animate the model, then you program the attacks, etc.

In truth, all that is handled by different people, and it makes no financial sense to have employees sitting on their thumbs waiting for people earlier in the assembly line to finish. That means everything is happening simultaneously, and it means Cloud and Bayo could easily be built off the framework of Ike and Zero Suit even if 0% of Ike or Zamus were used in the final build. They absolutely were not clones.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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So folks...
Here's a question.
Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
No...I still fear Bayonetta in Smash but still love her in her own games
Nope, because I never liked her in the first place. I've always thought that having her stand alongside characters like Cloud Strife, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Pac-Man was nonsensical.
But hey, that's just me. Power to anyone that likes her.
I honestly thought Cloud didn’t fit compared to Bayonetta, though of course I’m more used to her than him
PLEASE DO NOT SAY CLOUD IS AN IKE CLONE.
Cloud is an Ike clone
 

Chandeelure

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The attack of my bandana bots to the Smash ballot could mean something! /s


Also, guys, Bayonetta did not use ZSS's skeleton, it was Dedede's skeleton.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

P.Kat

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Guys, you're ALL wrong! The best ARMS character is Min-Min!
So there are others like me, fans of Min-Min :)

Don't get me wrong, I like Twintelle as much as the next person, but with my incurable love for Martial arts, noodles, pasta, and dragons (reason why Corrin is my main (still glad I predicted Corrin for Smash 4)) How could I resist rooting for Min-Min.
 

Guybrush20X6

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So, how many games websites will pick up this story tomorrow?
 

KingBroly

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So if Cloud was built off of Ike, and Bayonetta was built off of Zero Suit Samus, who was Corrin built off of?
 
D

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Cloud is an Ike clone
You are joking.....

Also why am I feeling Elma is more likely than Pyra?
I mean at least Elma has a much better design than Pyra.
Also Sakurai could of added the characters in early 2016. I think it might be a bit difficult for the XC2 characters to come, but they have a chance.
 

Pakky

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I mean the bayonetta reveal trailer DID say she was #1 worldwide out of "realizable characters" which means nothing.
"Realizable" means "Done already"


If anything the Ballot picked the roster for this game. That's why I always say "Consider the Mii costumes when thinking about the roster this time."

Cuz I'm 85% sure that's your Base game right there.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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What did I miss? What's up with all the Bayo and rigged Ballot talk?
 

Starbound

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You are joking.....

Also why am I feeling Elma is more likely than Pyra?
I mean at least Elma has a much better design than Pyra.
Also Sakurai could of added the characters in early 2016. I think it might be a bit difficult for the XC2 characters to come, but they have a chance.
XC2 started development in 2014, which isn't too late. It puts Elma in a weird spot since she's no longer relevant and not post enough for the ballot.
 

Hinata

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What did I miss? What's up with all the Bayo and rigged Ballot talk?
News came out that there was data for Bayo as early as patch 1.0.6, which was released only two weeks after the ballot started, which means that Bayo was planned from the start for DLC and didn't actually win the ballot.
 

Onua

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Hear me out.

MGS 2 Raiden as an echo fighter of Snake

> New dash attack (the summersault he does in MGS2)
> Slightly different jab with a 2nd kick after the 3rd kick
> New taunts
> Grenades stun rather than explode but only one at a time
> Side b is the stinger missile. Rather than controlling it the missle starts off slow then speeds up going forward.

It would be funny seeing that Radien was an echo of snake literally in MGS2
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
I still enjoy her inclusion (even if she is OP), and I know that the character I voted for wasn't going to get in either way.
 

Omega Tyrant

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*Squints
*Turns head sideways

I'm having a hard time seeing it
Being used as the base doesn't mean the final character will resemble the initial clone; Falcon and Ness used Samus and Mario respectively as a base in Smash 64 for example. Though Corrin's down tilt, nair, and fair are very similar looking to Ike's.
 
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Makai Wars

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*Squints
*Turns head sideways

I'm having a hard time seeing it
This, you'd think he'd actually be based off of Marth considering they have some similar attacks and body types. Ike is too dang buff for me to see Corrin built off of him, but they are both anime guys so maybe the adjustment wasn't that extreme.
I still enjoy her inclusion (even if she is OP), and I know that the character I voted for wasn't going to get in either way.
Out of curiosity, who did you vote for?
 

Murlough

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So folks...

Here's a question.

Does this question change how you feel about Bayonetta in Smash? :ultbayonetta:
Nope. No reason to change my opinion. These people acting decieved are being childish if you ask me.

Sakurai didn't even need to let fans have a voice. He chose to. Appreciate it and move on. Bayo isn't going anywhere and if what I think I'm following is correct, then your ballot choices may still have a shot in Ultimate.

What really is there to be upset about besides character hate?

Nope. Like I said, I voted for her anyway, so the ballot being rigged doesn't affect me.
The ballot wasn't rigged though. It wasn't used at all in Smash 4 if this is accurate. (Other than costumes)

They lied about it being used in 4 sure but they also are using it for Ultimate....and in theory more fan favorite characters will get in....so yeah...wasn't rigged. Just used differently than officially stated.

(I'm not calling you out or anything, I'm just saying.)
 
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TheDukeofDorks

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So if Cloud was built off of Ike, and Bayonetta was built off of Zero Suit Samus, who was Corrin built off of?
Miis

No, seriously, based on the animations of certain moves, the down smash being a near copy paste of the Brawler's, I'd wager Corrin was at one point in development just a very spiky Mii

EDIT: Nevermind, it's also Ike's. Apparently I can't read XP
 
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ReeseBalaski

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The real question is how much of our Youtube feed is going to be buried in clickbait "covering" this.
Can't wait for all the coverage channels to spread this around more and for the unruly side of the community to make it seem like Sakurai is the worst person in the world. /s

In reality, it isn't too big of a deal if this whole ballot business turns out true. But, there are always the people who take information like that a little too personally.
 

UltimateWario

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I'm having a hard time seeing it
That hugely popular Ridley mod for Project M/Brawl is built off of Pit. What little of Isaac (from Golden Sun) that got done before PM was canned was built off of Toon Link.

It's not quite the same thing, but the primary thing you need to look out for in my experience is similar bones.
 
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Chandeelure

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I can already see the clickbait videos with weird and exaggerated titles.

"The Smash Ballot was a lie?!"
"King K. Rool was the real winner of the Smash Ballot?!"
"Sakurai is a reptilian terrorist?!"
 

PLATINUM7

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Cloning works by which characters make the process mechanically easiest. It's why Cloud gets cloned specifically off of Ike to start development (and later Corrin) and Bayo gets cloned off of Zamus, then they alter them from there into the final product. You also can't start development on a third party character before the licensing is finished.
Well you can start development on a third party character before a license agreement. You just run the risk of not being able to use the character and having wasted time.
 

CaptainAmerica

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I'd suspected that Bayo was put in without the ballot. The turnaround did seem a bit too fast to be true.

Still, Sm4sh was so disappointing for single players that I'd put the game down before she was released, so I never played her. I think she looks fun.

Only thing I regret is that I hadn't thought of all possible characters, so I never threw a vote (or twelve) towards Dovahkiin...wish I had now...
 

Swamp Sensei

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Miis

No, seriously, based on the animations of certain moves, the down smash being a near copy paste of the Brawler's, I'd wager Corrin was at one point in development just a very spiky Mii
It's confirmed that it was also Ike.
 

Omega Tyrant

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This, you'd think he'd actually be based off of Marth considering they have some similar attacks and body types. Ike is too dang buff for me to see Corrin built off of him, but they are both anime guys so maybe the adjustment wasn't that extreme.

Out of curiosity, who did you vote for?
Probably because Marth is a finesse swordsman while Ike fights with brute swings, and Corrin's sword attacks are more like the latter's.

Miis

No, seriously, based on the animations of certain moves, the down smash being a near copy paste of the Brawler's, I'd wager Corrin was at one point in development just a very spiky Mii
No it's Ike, Corrin's initial placeholder slot has the same stats as Ike.
 

KMDP

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Here's a game for you all, suggest up to four characters, in the form of character pitches. Like how in that Smash 4 design document that describes what Rosalina, Robin and Duck Hunt can do as a Smash Fighter.
Smash 4 Project Proposal for Rosalina said:
Owner of the Comet Observatory, Rosalina (princess) teams up with Luma (star) for battle, Luma performs attacks separately from Rosalina. However, sometimes Rosalina will be unable to attack until Luma finishes. She can glide through the air like Mario did in SMG, and many specials will employ a zero-g motif. Since she is (maybe?) from another planet, she is a little bigger than Peach. Her attacks should also feel intergalactic.
Theme: Puppet Fighter
Smash 4 Project Proposal for Robin said:
The so-called Avatar, Robin fights with a sword in one hand and a magic tome in the other. Smash Attacks summon the Levin Sword, providing greater damage, reach, and knockback. Specials utilize several magic tomes for a wide array of spells. Once Robin uses these weapons a certain number of times, they break and get thrown away. Players can switch between male and female Robin by palette swapping.
Theme: Sword and Magic; Limited-Use Attacks
Smash 4 Project Proposal for Duck Hunt said:
The hunter and the hunted pair up for Smash! Players control the dog, who uses the duck to attack and recover. An anonymous ally also provides cover fire by shooting from the player's perspective. The US version of the NES came packaged with Duck Hunt and an NES Zapper, so the game and character enjoy surprising notoriety. Duck Hunt's moveset will also incorporate references to other games in the light gun series. They will be this game's surprise character.
Theme: Third-Party Cover Fire
You must provide a short description of what the character can do (you can relate them to other fighters to give a clearer idea of what they do) and a theme for the character.

Isaac
The main character of Golden Sun, Isaac fights with Venus Psynergy (Earth Manipulation), Djinn (Helpful Elemental Spirits) and a Sword at his disposal. When Isaac fully charges his Neutral, Side or Down Special attacks, his attack will cause a temporary change in the structure of the stage in the area around him, though these changes will eventually revert back to normal after a few seconds. Certain basic and smash attacks will cause a Djinn to come to Isaac's aid, which will not only increase the range of the attack, but temporarily provide a very small boost to one of his stats (attack power, movement speed, damage taken, jump height, etc.) until the next time he uses his attack, which will remove the Djinn's effect. His side smash, when fully charged, becomes 'Ragnarok', a huge ethereal sword which will plant itself in the ground and bury foes.
Theme: Stage Manipulation, Ranged Sword Fighting

Nightmare
The Azure Knight of Soul Calibur, Nightmare fights with a huge Great Sword known as "Soul Edge". This sword weighs him down a lot, making him very heavy and slow, but his attacks really pack a wallop and have huge knockback. When Nightmare attacks with Soul Edge, he recovers a small amount of percentage depending on how much damage he dealt to the opponent (approximately 10%). This HP recover effect also occurs when Nightmare grabs his foe, he can't pummel his opponent, but he absorbs health from them instead. His Final Smash involves summoning a horse made of Shadow, a 'Night mare', and mowing down enemies.
Theme: Hard Hitting Attacks, HP absorption.

Sephiroth
The One-winged Angel, the greatest SOLDIER, and 'son' of Jenova. Sephiroth carries an enormous katana by the name of Masamune. Sephiroth, confident to the point of arrogance, moves slowly and deliberately when not actively running (he 'runs' by gliding, just like Cloud). When he attacks with Masamune, he appears to swing the sword slowly, but actually several wind blades from his fast strokes attack his opponent; as a result, his attacks hit multiple times, but they also take a while to end, so you better make sure not to miss. His Down Aerial, "Hell's Gate", has the property of instantly destroying damageable Assist Trophies.
Theme: Deliberate, multi-hitting attacks.

Tifa Lockhart
The beautiful patron of the "Seventh Heaven" Bar and a member of AVALANCHE, Tifa plays somewhat like a fusion of Cloud and Little Mac. Like Little Mac, her style is mostly about fisticuffs, and she does poorly in the air, and like Cloud, she has a Limit Gauge which, when filled, powers up her Special Moves. She fights with kicks and punches, which do a lot of damage but have relatively poor range; her special moves are Beat Rush (Neutral), a combo move that requires extra inputs; Somersault (Up), a back flip; Meteodrive (Side), a command grab that involves suplexing the character she grabs; and Limit Charge (Down), which works the same way as with Cloud. Her Final Smash "Final Heaven" requires you to play a roulette (wth "Yeah!", "Hit" or "Miss"), the damage it deals depends on how many "Yeah!" or "Hit" slots you get.
Theme: Limit Breaking Fisticuffs

EDIT: There is now a dedicated thread for this game, if you're interested, you can pitch your own character ideas or read what others have to say about their wanted characters here.
 
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Will

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I can already see the clickbait videos with weird and exaggerated titles.

"The Smash Ballot was a lie?!"
"King K. Rool was the real winner of the Smash Ballot?!"
"Sakurai is a reptilian terrorist?!"
That's not clickbaity enough, it needs some flare. Make it so you "travel to Japan" and "steal Sakurai's laptop" that has all the ballot results in English. Maybe a little dash of (SAKURAI FOUND ME) or (SAKURAI KILLED ME)
 
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