Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MasterWarlord]

Question about that Google Trends thing. Can we see those results but for 'Final Fantasy' or 'Bayonetta'? Because we know for a fact those did well on the ballot and it'd be a better way to determine the whole 'silent majority' or 'actual support' stuff I feel

Oh believe me, we certainly tried. The issue is these are search terms. A character who shares the same name as their game/franchise is going to get a very inflated score. Games always come up much higher than characters on this.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Coincidentally I hear Alfonzo has been practicing his tennis game lately.

I’m sure he and Waluigi will have a wonderful time playing tennis together.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh believe me, we certainly tried. The issue is these are search terms. A character who shares the same name as their game/franchise is going to get a very inflated score. Games always come up much higher than characters on this.

This leaves 2 conclusions: 1: Google Trends is a **** way to seek support or 2: K.Rool isn't as popular as Bayonetta or Cloud, who'd have an easier time getting hits than just Final Fantasy although we know Cloud was merely the most popular choice for a Final Fantasy character

 

[Deleted member]

Well then, how about this?

Also, in Brawl, like, very few animations were shared between them.

I already dug it up. Wolf was only put in because he was easy to semi-clone, but he was also popular. Sakurai is inconclusive on who's more popular between the two, but he does say Krystal was more-or-less impossible due to "technical modeling knowledge" at the time, so the K. Rool comparison is just dead wrong.

 

[GunBlaze]

I already dug it up. Wolf was only put in because he was easy to semi-clone, but he was also popular. Sakurai is inconclusive on who's more popular between the two, but he does say Krystal was more-or-less impossible due to technology at the time, so the K. Rool comparison is just dead wrong.

Just noticed. Got 'd.

 

[Opossum]

Also don't get me wrong, while I'm skeptical about using Google Trends and all, I still think comparing Krystal to K. Rool is incredibly faulty. K. Rool, even without appearing in the two most recent titles, still had a major presence in some of the DKC series' highest points, namely the original trilogy. Meanwhile Krystal is only in three Star Fox games and wasn't as important, not to mention two of those games being less-than-critically acclaimed (though to be fair most people eventually came around on Assault).

The two are in pretty different places. The only common thread is that they both weren't in their franchise's revival.

 

[Roberk]

Gets back after 2 weeks
Sees 300 extra pages
“No”

 

[MasterWarlord]

This leaves 2 conclusions: 1: Google Trends is a **** way to seek support or 2: K.Rool isn't as popular as Bayonetta or Cloud, who'd have an easier time getting hits than just Final Fantasy although we know Cloud was merely the most popular choice for a Final Fantasy character

I'm not going to pretend K. Rool is anywhere near as popular or well known as Cloud in general. The only thing that was brought into question was ballot performance/popularity within the Smash communities, where Nintendo characters have a disproportionately large amount of representation compared to their general popularity. If Cloud really did well in the ballot, you'd think Sakurai would give him more credit than just saying he beat such requested characters as Terra, Kefka, and Sephiroth.

On the Google trends, K. Rool has a very obvious spike on the ballot era. Elma from Xenoblade has a very obvious spike when her game releases. A large amount of generation 1 Pokemon, including junk like Pidgey, have a massive spike for Pokemon Go. It's no end all be all measure, but the giant spikes in performance have some obvious significance.

Here are a handful of the other ones that we bothered to do. https://smashboards.com/threads/k-r...ghborhood-fanservice-rep.446401/post-22167580

 

[Opossum]

Gets back after 2 weeks
Sees 300 extra pages
“No”

Read them. Read them all.

 

[Deleted member]

Another relevant part of that Wolf interview is what he says about why he included Wolf.

"Among the characters with high popularity, I chose one who had a high possibility of becoming realized in the game, and as a result you could say Wolf was created."

It's a very different situation, right at the end of development. Assuming Sakurai puts in a DK newcomer in the base roster there'll be no time constraint issues.

 

[Metablaze]

I'm not sure if this game will even have DLC since they said to not expect many characters
I still hope my bois Shadow and Waddle Dee can make it into the roster though

 

[Deleted member]

K. Rool?

I will be honest, I felt he was a lost cause prior to E3.
He was one of the biggest names in Smash speculation pre-Smash 4, during Smash 4's development, and even post-Smash 4 release with DLC.

And the most that got him was a Mii Costume that seemed like Sakurai merely trying to throw the fans a bone and do something for them even if not having him playable.
And they didn't take it well.

Nothing had really changed for K. Rool since before Smash 4. He still hadn't been featured in a game since Mario Super Sluggers, and is still a popular Smash candidate. And going by how new characters have been added with Brawl and Smash 4, his competition has only been getting stronger while he has remained stagnant.
But with the full unveiling of Ultimate, while nothing changed for K. Rool himself, due to how the game is being handled from what we can see that may not even matter now.

The game is being designed in such a way to cater to the overall Smash fanbase. No one's favorite characters from previous Smash games are left behind this time. The widely discussed Ridley is finally a playable fighter after several dismissals. Daisy is actually her own fighter now instead of Peach merely having a palette swap of Daisy's colors. Ganondorf now uses his sword for some attacks after years of complaints. Battlefield forms for stages. Hazard toggles for stages. The gameplay is being designed with more competitive play in mind. Etc., etc.
While not every fan can get what they want, especially in such a limited roster of new additions, a heavy-hitter like K. Rool is far from unreasonable now from my perspective. His lack of appearances in modern releases doesn't feel as "strong" of a reason for exclusions as it was months ago.

That's not to say he's a guarantee in the slightest. I remember when he was a "guarantee" for Smash 4's base roster and then for DLC.
But things are looking better for him than they were before, that much I will say.

 

[Opossum]

I'm not going to pretend K. Rool is anywhere near as popular or well known as Cloud in general. The only thing that was brought into question was ballot performance/popularity within the Smash communities, where Nintendo characters have a disproportionately large amount of representation compared to their general popularity. If Cloud really did well in the ballot, you'd think Sakurai would give him more credit than just saying he beat such requested characters as Terra, Kefka, and Sephiroth.

On the Google trends, K. Rool has a very obvious spike on the ballot era. Elma from Xenoblade has a very obvious spike when her game releases. A large amount of generation 1 Pokemon, including junk like Pidgey, have a massive spike for Pokemon Go. It's no end all be all measure, but the giant spikes in performance have some obvious significance.

Here are a handful of the other ones that we bothered to do. https://smashboards.com/threads/k-r...ghborhood-fanservice-rep.446401/post-22167580

One thing I'd be curious to see is the results for Black Knight. Both he and K. Rool are popular speedy-but-heavy villains in their home franchises that got possibly ballot-based Mii costumes and haven't appeared in a while (well, pre-Heroes). My main concern with Trends is that I feel it could be swayed by people simply looking the character up out of not knowing who they are as opposed to genuine ballot support, and I think Black Knight would be a good way to test that, maybe.

 

[Murlough]

I'm not sure if this game will even have DLC since they said to not expect many characters
I still hope my bois Shadow and Waddle Dee can make it into the roster though

There is no reason to assume we won't get DLC. This game is supposed to be the last Smash game for a while. Comsidering that fact and the success of Smash 4's DLC (on an inferior console) they would literally be choosing to not print money for themselves by not doing DLC.

It would be lunacy for them to not do it, basically.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I'd be curious to see is the results for Black Knight. Both he and K. Rool are popular speedy-but-heavy villains in their home franchises that got possibly ballot-based Mii costumes and haven't appeared in a while (well, pre-Heroes). My main concern with Trends is that I feel it could be swayed by people simply looking the character up out of not knowing who they are as opposed to genuine ballot support, and I think Black Knight would be a good way to test that, maybe.

https://i.imgur.com/SXdboP4.png

Black Knight is a blip on the radar. He got some activity over K. Rool but nothing for the ballot whatsoever, then another massive spike because of FE Heroes that happened far too late to matter for Ultimate. Still not as high as the K. Rool peaks.

 

[Roberk]

Read them. Read them all.

I will but... hoo boy.

 

[Opossum]

https://i.imgur.com/SXdboP4.png

Black Knight is a blip on the radar. He got some activity over K. Rool but nothing for the ballot whatsoever, then another massive spike because of FE Heroes that happened far too late to matter for Ultimate. Still not as high as the K. Rool peaks.

That helps put it into context somewhat. From this, it can be deduced that K. Rool, at the very least, had significant hype surrounding his Mii costume, given when it spiked. This at least shows people were more curious about K. Rool, even if it doesn't translate to one-to-one support.

 

[Wambo]

https://i.imgur.com/SXdboP4.png

Black Knight is a blip on the radar. He got some activity over K. Rool but nothing for the ballot whatsoever, then another massive spike because of FE Heroes that happened far too late to matter for Ultimate. Still not as high as the K. Rool peaks.

And Black Knight wasn't even at the center of that announcement. The three most advertised costumes of that pack were K.Rool, Chrom, and Llyod.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

That helps put it into context somewhat. From this, it can be deduced that K. Rool, at the very least, had significant hype surrounding his Mii costume, given when it spiked. This at least shows people were more curious about K. Rool, even if it doesn't translate to one-to-one support.

K. Rool is the Black Knight confirmed.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

K. Rool is the Black Knight confirmed.

Have you ever seen them in the same room together?

 

[Opossum]

K. Rool is the Black Knight confirmed.

It'd still make more sense than "my Warp Powder malfunctioned."

 

[Idon]

MY SOUL WAS TRANSPORTED.

 

[Chandeelure]

Have you ever seen them in the same room together?

Yes.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/66ad065605e67a8a1229e9f01e7a69ab/tumblr_inline_nsc2cbvarI1sizo03_500.jpg

 

[KMDP]

It'd still make more sense than "my Warp Powder malfunctioned."

Sanaki: General Zelgius, why are you late for the strategy meeting?
Zelgius: I'm actually the monarch of a race of crocodiles that keep trying to steal a crop of magic bananas from a tribe of intelligent apes.
Sanaki: ...Hmm... your story checks out.

 

[Freduardo]

This why I always found it weird for people to want Dark Pit to fight differently since he fights just like his superior. In a way, Dark Pit is the more accurate clone/echo due to him literally being an echo of Pit (that probably places him among some of the more accurate characters in Smash)

It’s because it’s a fighting game and there were so many different fighting styles in Uprising. Staff alone is so very different from bow, never mind orbitars, palm, cannons, swords, etc.

As for how fantastic that game is, I went in an online round today and found one within a minute. And a full game

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh believe me, we certainly tried. The issue is these are search terms. A character who shares the same name as their game/franchise is going to get a very inflated score. Games always come up much higher than characters on this.

I had no problem comparing the franchises to each other and when I specified "video game series" for the search terms "Final Fantasy" and "Bayonetta" what I found (when only comparing the two) was Final Fantasy easily beating Bayonetta. Take the results for what you will in terms of Smash *shrugs*

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm confused, are we using Google searches to say something about the Ballot???

If we are how does that work? I didn't Google search any of the characters I voted for...

 

[Metal Shop X]

I see peoples talking about the Black Knight, and now I'm sad because, alongside Lyn (Rest In Spaghetti), he is still my number 1 FE pick for Smash for various reason.

Tho, before anyone say or ask, I wasn't upset or sad when he was announced as a costume for the Mii (I in fact was quit happy since I use Mii Fighter and that, hey, it does show that Sakurai know about him), with how many FE characters there is now on the roster, whatever chances he have to be a character are probably even lower (tho, Heroes might have help, but I know pretty much nothing about Heroes).

Which is a shame, since I feel like Smash could do interesting stuff with a character in such a big & heavy armor. Plus, out of all the character that could represent the series, having a vilain like The Black Knight, who is generally seen as one of the best vilain in the franchise, could help ease the fact that it might be "another FE character" to some peoples.

Plus, he look just cool, and I like love character in big, menacing medieval armor.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It’s because it’s a fighting game and there were so many different fighting styles in Uprising. Staff alone is so very different from bow, never mind orbitars, palm, cannons, swords, etc.

As for how fantastic that game is, I went in an online round today and found one within a minute. And a full game

Speaking of staffs, you’d think Dark Pit would try to be different from Pit by mostly using a weapon named after him (instead he copies the fighting ways of the flightless angel)

Uprising itself is a spectacular game (still hoping for a sequel and hd port)

Lyn (Rest In Spaghetti)...I know pretty much nothing about Heroes

All you need to know about Heroes is that it’s addicting and you’ll become a gambler (also its extremely fun)

 

[KMDP]

I see peoples talking about the Black Knight, and now I'm sad because, alongside Lyn (Rest In Spaghetti), he is still my number 1 FE pick for Smash for various reason.

Tho, before anyone say or ask, I wasn't upset or sad when he was announced as a costume for the Mii (I in fact was quit happy since I use Mii Fighter and that, hey, it does show that Sakurai know about him), with how many FE characters there is now on the roster, whatever chances he have to be a character are probably even lower (tho, Heroes might have help, but I know pretty much nothing about Heroes).

Which is a shame, since I feel like Smash could do interesting stuff with a character in such a big & heavy armor. Plus, out of all the character that could represent the series, having a vilain like The Black Knight, who is generally seen as one of the best vilain in the franchise, could help ease the fact that it might be "another FE character" to some peoples.

Plus, he look just cool, and I like love character in big, menacing medieval armor.

I've wanted Black Knght too, ever since Ike got in. He's just not one of my high priority characters.

Speaking of cool looking Knights, Joshua in my Fire Emblem 8 Randomiser run was a Knight (later General). His knight form looked bad (due to a mismatched palette), but he ended up looking like the Black Knight as a General.

 

[---]

Not sure why people are speculating using Google Trends, but I do miss the days when Black Knight was considered a strong contender from after Smash 4 was announced to FE13's announcement. It's amazing how much the speculation community has grown since then.

If Smash was a dating sim. game, would that change the characters that you want to be in smash?

No. No it would not.

Spoiler

I miss Oasis. He's Still the Strongest Ridley fan. I would love to hear his thoughts on E3 and Sukapon being an Assist Trophy.

 

[Darkraid]

I do think King K Rool and Geno to be extremely likely.

Anyone realize we haven't seen Chrom? They purposely left out Robin's FS and he was not in E3.

 

[Idon]

All you need to know about Heroes is that you should not play it.
Under any circumstance.
Ever.

It's not a game- it's a prison for your soul.

 

[KMDP]

I do think King K Rool and Geno to be extremely likely.

Anyone realize we haven't seen Chrom? They purposely left out Robin's FS and he was not in E3.

K. Rool, yes. Geno, ehhhh. And yes, people have noticed Chrom's conspicuous absence.
Edit: Also, this is my 666th post! *evil cackle*

 

[ReeseBalaski]

It'd still make more sense than "my Warp Powder malfunctioned."

True. And also, I just remembered.

Smash 4 Ike is mocked in Japan for looking like a gorilla.

K. Rool really IS the Black Knight.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not sure why people are speculating using Google Trends,

This debate started due to the assumption that Dixie may be more popular than K. Rool among the "silent majority" of people who voted in the Smash ballot.

 

[KMDP]

True. And also, I just remembered.

Smash 4 Ike is mocked in Japan for looking like a gorilla.

K. Rool really IS the Black Knight.

Sanaki: General Zelgius, why are you late for the strategy meeting?
Zelgius: I'm actually the monarch of a race of crocodiles that keep trying to steal a crop of magic bananas from a tribe of intelligent apes.
Sanaki: ...Hmm... your story checks out.

The best part about this is that, with the existence of Laguz in Tellius and the general existence of magic in Fire Emblem, it's not exactly an unbelievable claim.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I've wanted Black Knght too, ever since Ike got in. He's just not one of my high priority characters.

Speaking of cool looking Knights, Joshua in my Fire Emblem 8 Randomiser run was a Knight (later General). His knight form looked bad (due to a mismatched palette), but he ended up looking like the Black Knight as a General.

Yeah, I forget to mention that in my previous post, who doesn't want to see Ike Vs The Black Knight in Smash?!

This is the like the perfect match-up along the like of:
Vs
Vs
Vs
Vs ()

And many more!

Like, Smash Ultimate is already the greatest crossover in my eyes, but if it want to be perfect, this is the match-up that need to happen!

...Or they could just give his Mii Costume back, but if this is the case, please buff the Mii Swordfighter Daddy Sakurai, plz.

 

[Idon]

GREIL WAS AN APE IN DISGUISE

C O N F I R M E D

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Smash 4 Ike is mocked in Japan for looking like a gorilla.

Now that’s silly