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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Zinith

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DK needs the chance to have a actual 3D game that puts a priority behind making a 3D DK game. DK64 felt like it didn't have the full attention from the developers. Rare seemed to have given priority over games like Banjo-Kazooie back then. I general I hope they are gonna experiment more with the Donkey Kong franchise. Reggie mentoined DK amongst the franchises he wanted to create "new experiences" for, much like Zelda, Mario and Metroid. Metroid got Federation Forces and Metroid 2 remake that gave total new experiences, Prime 4 is on the way. Zelda had it's whole franchise turn in a new direction with Breath of the Wild. And Mario does something else entirely any time. I want Donkey Kong to have the same kind of attention. There's lots of potential.
I feel the same for Yoshi. Everyone says "Oh he's fine in 2D." No he's not. All that Arzest and Good-Feel are doing is trying to match the success of the original Yoshi's Island and the quality shifts from pretty good (Woolly World) to painfully mediocre (New Island). I want a radical change for the series, and I feel that he needs to go 3D
 

RandomAce

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Now that I think about it. Is an ARMS rep really DLC worthy?

What I mean is, does Nintendo think people will pay money to play as Spring Man? Because the more I think about it, the more I feel that people just expect him rather than want him.

I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again, and that Spring Man will just not do well in terms of DLC sales.
 
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MainJPW

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I also wonder why Sonic doesn't have more of his gadgets in Smash. Bounce Bracelet? Flame Ring? Those are really cool moves but all we get is 20 versions of spin dash.
He doesn’t need gadgets. Sonic can perform the bounce attack without the bracelet in the Advance games, Battle, Generations and Lost World and the Stomp is pretty similar too. Those upgrades only exist to prompt the players to explore the hub worlds and stages a bit more, the characters don’t canonically need them. Knuckles can dig without the Shovel Claw just fine in several other games and so on.

The better question is, why doesn’t Sonic have his Aerokinetic abilities? In SA2, Heroes, Battle, Rush series and Chronicles he can generate tornadoes and gusts of powerful wind yet none of that ended up in his Smash moveset.
 

DaybreakHorizon

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Now that I think about it. Is an ARMS rep really DLC worthy?

What I mean is, does Nintendo think people will pay money to play as Spring Man? Because the more I think about it, the more I feel that people just expect them him rather than want him.

I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again.
The negative reception Corrin received was mainly due to two reasons:

1. He was the last DLC character, and people were mad that their character didn't get in.
2. He was another Fire Emblem character, which had already received two newcomers and a DLC character.

Put those two together and you've got the perfect s***storm.
 

Will

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I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again.
Difference is, if Spring Man gets announced people don't go "oh god more anime". :rolleyes: Should've been Hector Though with what the ARMs director said about not including it, it's less the promotional and more his own statement.
 

DarkFalcon

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He doesn’t need gadgets. Sonic can perform the bounce attack without the bracelet in the Advance games, Battle, Generations and Lost World and the Stomp is pretty similar too. Those upgrades only exist to prompt the players to explore the hub worlds and stages a bit more, the characters don’t canonically need them. Knuckles can dig without the Shovel Claw just fine in several other games and so on.

The better question is, why doesn’t Sonic have his Aerokinetic abilities? In SA2, Heroes, Battle, Rush series and Chronicles he can generate tornadoes and gusts of powerful wind yet none of that ended up in his Smash moveset.
I'd say maybe his last minute addition in Brawl is his downfall but at the same time if Sakurai planned Sonic to have more variety he's had 2 games to fix it and he hasn't.
 

Will

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No Square would take 10 years to make it.
That meme depends on the title/series being worked on. Their 3DS Bravely series only had a two year gap between the first game and its sequel.
 

Tailisu10

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I also wonder why Sonic doesn't have more of his gadgets in Smash. Bounce Bracelet? Flame Ring? Those are really cool moves but all we get is 20 versions of spin dash.
It's because he was a late addition to Brawl so his moveset was pretty much rushed, which is too bad cause I want them to add moves from Sonic Battle.
 

MBRedboy31

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In terms of Sonic, I think the boost gameplay is fine when it has the level design to back it up (which Forces kinda lacked,) but... in a practical sense, it seems like Sonic games are slowly having smaller and smaller budgets (notice how short the levels in Forces are, plus the game couldn’t even muster enough content to be a full price game) and the boost gameplay requires a disproportionately large amount of level modeling for how much gameplay it presents due to its speed, so, if they want to have levels with notable length ever again, they’ll have to try something else that’s a bit slower.

I feel like the 2D sections in Modern Sonic’s parts of boost games are overhated, though. When balanced out in a level properly and designed well, they allow different parts of levels to have different kinds of level design and hazards in a format that better fits them while retaining about the same gameplay and controls for both formats.

Edit: In terms of gadgets, well, I do think Sonic doesn’t really need them and he’s represented well enough without them. At the same time, though, I’d personally rather either side special or down special be changed just because the differences between them are so unintuitive, so, one of those theoretically could fit in. So... the rolling moves are fitting representation, just not good design. You shouldn’t really have to look up the difference or experiment a bit to find the difference when it should be intuitive, right?
 
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DarkFalcon

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It's because he was a late addition to Brawl so his moveset was pretty much rushed, which is too bad cause I want them to add moves from Sonic Battle.
Yea but Sakurai had 2 games to fix that if he wanted Sonic to have something different.
 

RandomAce

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Difference is, if Spring Man gets announced people don't go "oh god more anime". :rolleyes:Should've been Hector Though with what the ARMs director said about not including it, it's less the promotional and more his own statement.
The negative reception Corrin received was mainly due to two reasons:

1. He was the last DLC character, and people were mad that their character didn't get in.
2. He was another Fire Emblem character, which had already received two newcomers and a DLC character.

Put those two together and you've got the perfect s***storm.
Yeah I agree, Corrin was revealed at the wrong time and circumstance.

But I feel that Spring Man is going to be a character that people aren’t going to care about, or would rather have some other character instead of them.

Rex and Pyra have many people supporting them because they generally like them as characters. Spring Man... not so much, and with limited newcomer slots I’m not sure about an ARMS rep for DLC. Especially if people aren’t going to be willing to pay for.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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DarkFalcon

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Yeah I agree, Corrin was revealed at the wrong time and circumstance.

But I feel that Spring Man is going to be a character that people aren’t going to care about, or would rather have some other character instead of them.

Rex and Pyra have many people supporting them because they generally like them as characters. Spring Man... not so much, and with limited newcomer slots I’m not sure about an ARMS rep for DLC.
Count me in the not caring about Spring Man camp. Was never interested in ARMS and his design does nothing for me. I would feel so incredibly meh over his inclusion.

I'd be all for Rex and Pyra/Mythra as DLC though. Their game is well liked and they could have an interesting mechanic with the affinity line if Sakurai wants to go that route. I wonder if Sakurai would have the balls to include Coffee and Milk in their final smash if he included them. He did so with Fiora with Shulk lol.

(Coffee and Milk is a codename to not spoil people in case you were wondering)
 
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Will

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When people say add new Sonic moves, I think less of the gimmick gadgets from Adventure and more those slick action moves you could pull off in the Rush DS games. The whole "Rush" mechanic I think could work for a side special. A mesh between the high speed and vertical knockback of Fox Illusion :ultfox: but the uncontrollable aspect of Rollout :ultjigglypuff:. Also give it a limited charge like R.O.B.'s recovery, it can't be spam heaven.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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In terms of Sonic, I think the boost gameplay is fine when it has the level design to back it up (which Forces kinda lacked,) but... in a practical sense, it seems like Sonic games are slowly having smaller and smaller budgets (notice how short the levels in Forces are, plus the game couldn’t even muster enough content to be a full price game) and the boost gameplay requires a disproportionately large amount of level modeling for how much gameplay it presents due to its speed, so, if they want to have levels with notable length ever again, they’ll have to try something else that’s a bit slower.

I feel like the 2D sections in Modern Sonic’s parts of boost games are overhated, though. When balanced out in a level properly and designed well, they allow different parts of levels to have different kinds of level design and hazards in a format that better fits them while retaining about the same gameplay and controls for both formats.

Edit: In terms of gadgets, well, I do think Sonic doesn’t really need them and he’s represented well enough without them. At the same time, though, I’d personally rather either side special or down special be changed just because the differences between them are so unintuitive, so, one of those theoretically could fit in. So... the rolling moves are fitting representation, just not good design. You shouldn’t really have to look up the difference or experiment a bit to find the difference when it should be intuitive, right?
That budget thing is definitely true, they hired amateur level designers who'd barely worked on anything which is why the level designs are so terrible, and the visuals are a step down from generations for some reason. For what is supposed to be sega's biggest and most important franchise it's so strange to me that even after years of bad titles and the series being trashed and hated they still have no concern for quality.
 

Tailisu10

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Yea but Sakurai had 2 games to fix that if he wanted Sonic to have something different.
They're pretty reluctant on changing the character's movesets at times, it took them 3 games to give Ganondorf his damn sword lmao. It's kinda seems that giving someone changes is the luck of the draw.
 
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DarkFalcon

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They're pretty reluctant on changing the character's movesets at times, it took them 3 games to give Ganondorf his damn sword lmao.
I think that applies more towards the earlier characters. Brawl is right in the middle. Wolf got a new move from Brawl. Snake did too. At least changing one of his spin attack moves would have been nice.
 
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Sonic's moveset is the only one that needs a major overhaul, imo.
I'm really disappointed with his current one since it has so many ball attacks.
 

Will

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Sonic's moveset is the only one that needs a major overhaul, imo.
I'm really disappointed with his current one since it has so many ball attacks.
Sonic being in a ball is his thing, though warranting two spin dash specials is not what Sakurai should've done in the first place.
What's even the difference between the two?
 

Staarih

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But I feel that Spring Man is going to be a character that people aren’t going to care about, or would rather have some other character instead of them.
To care or not to care about a character is really subjective - with all the DLC we got in Smash 4, there's bound to be people who didn't care for some (if not all) of those characters and wished for some others instead. They'll just go with whatever DLC they choose to, and I kinda feel that Smash owners will grab whatever DLC character they'll go with as long as (s)he's unique. If this was any other fighting game, the DLC would be new, random characters that you'd just have to take or leave - Smash just has the novelty of including pre-existing characters from various franchises.

I may be biased as I want to see Spring Man in the game (ARMS is like one of my most played Switch games)... but that would make me at least one person who would care lol.
 

DarkFalcon

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Samus needs a overhaul too but since she's one of the original 12 that isn't happening unfortunately.
 

Fenriraga

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When people say add new Sonic moves, I think less of the gimmick gadgets from Adventure and more those slick action moves you could pull off in the Rush DS games. The whole "Rush" mechanic I think could work for a side special. A mesh between the high speed and vertical knockback of Fox Illusion :ultfox: but the uncontrollable aspect of Rollout :ultjigglypuff:. Also give it a limited charge like R.O.B.'s recovery, it can't be spam heaven.
Funny thing is, Smash 4 has a piece of equipment that literally gives characters a boost. Given to Sonic, it's really uncanny.

This is the best I can find. Not a lot of people know about this. A more powerful version of it is a Smash Run power too, I believe.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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The only thing of Sonic's that really needs to change imo is one of the spindashes, there's so much they can do as well with the bounce attack, the boost, sonic wind, the light speed dash. There's really no need to have 2 of them, you're not on a strict time limit anymore guys.
 

Idon

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Speaking of BD, what a good game. Would've loved a character like Tiz who just changed to a different class for each of his different moves with a different costume and all. Course, that's realistically impossible, but boy was I hopeful back then.


As for Sonic, I really want to see some aerokinesis. One of my favorite memories as Sonic was when I was playing as Blaze and Sonic using those tornado moves and such. It seems like it'd be better than a spin-dash variant at least.
 

DarkFalcon

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Did anyone ever confirm if Sonic had his you're too slow voice line back (well, rerecorded since his VA is different)? You'd think finding this out would be top priority.
 
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Will

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Speaking of BD, what a good game. Would've loved a character like Tiz who just changed to a different class for each of his different moves with a different costume and all. Course, that's realistically impossible, but boy was I hopeful back then.
I wanted Tiz/Ringabel for Smash 4 at one point before I realized it was unrealistic. The bajillion class mechanic was pretty cool and fluid

oh and the music
 
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MBRedboy31

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That budget thing is definitely true, they hired amateur level designers who'd barely worked on anything which is why the level designs are so terrible, and the visuals are a step down from generations for some reason. For what is supposed to be sega's biggest and most important franchise it's so strange to me that even after years of bad titles and the series being trashed and hated they still have no concern for quality.
Perhaps, part of it is that Modern Sonic basically has a monopoly on the high speed 3D/2.5D platformer subgenre currently. Like, any product needs to have competition, or else there’s no reason for it to need to have quality.

Sonic's moveset is the only one that needs a major overhaul, imo.
I'm really disappointed with his current one since it has so many ball attacks.
Sonic has actually had one fewer ball attack in each game (Dsmash became a split kick in Brawl, and dash attack became a lunge kick attack in Ultimate.)
So, how many games until he has no ball attacks left? :p
 
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Idon

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I wanted Tiz/Ringabel for Smash 4 at one point before I realized it was unrealistic. The bajillion class mechanic was pretty cool and fluid
I had an idea where each of them could have one taunt specific. Like Tiz would do his leg stretches or Edea would stomp and mrgrgrgr. Ringabel was such a fun character with a great name.

The classes were fun and really let you become overpowered as hell. I don't think I've ever felt true JRPG bull**** when I could burn all my HP in a single attack and then use my subclass to do damage proportional to the amount of HP I lost.

Basically, a good-ass game.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Now that I think about it. Is an ARMS rep really DLC worthy?

What I mean is, does Nintendo think people will pay money to play as Spring Man? Because the more I think about it, the more I feel that people just expect him rather than want him.

I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again, and that Spring Man will just not do well in terms of DLC sales.
I'd love Spring Man.

And trust me.

People will buy him.
 

Idon

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Now that I think about it. Is an ARMS rep really DLC worthy?

What I mean is, does Nintendo think people will pay money to play as Spring Man? Because the more I think about it, the more I feel that people just expect him rather than want him.

I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again, and that Spring Man will just not do well in terms of DLC sales.
People will pay for more characters.
Period.
 

MainJPW

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Excuse me for a moment........ScREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEch

Ok I'm fine. How can they not bring back that line?
How can they not bring in Roger Craig Smith to record actual lines for Smash? Sonic's original voice in Japan still has the "you're too slow" line.
 
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Will

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I don't think I've ever felt true JRPG bull**** when I could burn all my HP in a single attack and then use my subclass to do damage proportional to the amount of HP I lost.
I wanted Ringabel for that reason because
Untitled.png


I also like how it played the "generic JRPG" trope while also ****ting on it at the same time with the whole save the Crystals plot being mixed up and making you end up being the "villain" until the endgame.
 

SuperSmashStephen

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Now that I think about it. Is an ARMS rep really DLC worthy?

What I mean is, does Nintendo think people will pay money to play as Spring Man? Because the more I think about it, the more I feel that people just expect him rather than want him.

I know they decided to add Corrin, but seeing the reception he recieved I’m not sure if they want to pull something like that off again, and that Spring Man will just not do well in terms of DLC sales.
I think ARMS did well enough to warrant a newcomer for DLC. It didn’t have the same success Splatoon did, but I still think it did well enough. In terms of who we’d get as playable Spring Man is just the go to because he’s the mascot, but so is Ribbon Girl, so you could argue she’d be chosen over Spring Man. I know other characters such as Twintelle, Min Min, and Ninjara would warrant more of a hype response, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I wouldn’t be surprised by an ARMS newcomer, nor would I be surprised if there wasn’t one at all. Considering it’s a new Nintendo IP, and the possibility for a sequel is out there (as stated by the creators of the game.) I expect one, to be honest.
 

Fenriraga

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I'd REALLY love to just have each character record new lines. But with 65+ characters it's pretty understandable that we have so many re used clips.
 
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