Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Okay I just thought of a bat**** insane idea for newcomer speculation!!!

You know how there is this focus on the roster timelines and the series' beginnings (Smash 64)? Well, much like how Smash began with 12 characters, we will get exactly 12 newcomers for Ultimate, that much has been speculated before. But here's the thing, in reverence to the 10 series represented in the first game they'll add one newcomer for each and have 2 new IPs represented (much like how Luigi and Jigglypuff were the odd ones out being 2nd reps). We already have Mario and Metroid get new reps (it doesn't matter if it's an Echo Fighter) and Splatoon became one of those 2 new IPs. So it's something like:

Mario - Daisy
Donkey Kong - ???
The Legend of Zelda - ???
Metroid - Ridley
Yoshi - ???
Kirby - ???
Star Fox - ???
Pokemon - ???
Mother - ???
F-Zero - ???
New IP 1 - Inkling
New IP 2 - ???

I'm just spitballing and it's not a surefire theory by any means. I just find it neat and to be honest is the only way I could see Yoshi and Captain Falcon getting company...

DK - K. Rool
The Legend of Zelda - Impa (Echo)
Yoshi - Kamek (I guess)
Kirby - Bandana Dee
Star Fox - Andross
Pokemon - Decidueye
Mother - Ninten (Echo)
F-Zero - idgaf
New IP 2 - Shovel Knight/Isaac/Crash Bandicoot
(this is purely want if you couldn't tell)

 

[CJ Falcon]

I honestly hope Black Shadow gets in if he's voiced by Norio Wakamoto like in the anime.

 

[papagenos]

Mario - Daisy
Donkey Kong - K Rool
The Legend of Zelda - Impa
Metroid - Ridley
Yoshi - Kamek
Kirby - Waddle Dee
Star Fox - Slippy
Pokemon - Decidueye
Mother - Porky
F-Zero - Black Shadow
New IP 1 - Inkling
New IP 2 - Mach Rider

its ok but there are some seriously forced characters doing it this way haha

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As for Bayonetta I still stand by her having absolutely no place in Smash Bros. Always will. I also think her winning the Smash ballot was a sham, though I'm sure this has been discussed to death already. I also find most of the Bayonetta fans obnoxious in my experience. Like they almost seem unable to talk about her games without belittling Devil May Cry lol. Doesn't help how she's completely busted in Smash.

If there's one silver lining to her being in Smash it's that a lot of people hate her now who would have otherwise stayed indifferent or not even know about the franchise at all. To the point where people flat out boo at her when she's on the screen lol.

You are a very bitter man.

I haven't seen this much pettiness in a long time.

 

[Jetsurge]

Bayonetta didn't win but there were still people who voted for her.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Bayonetta didn't win but there were still people who voted for her.

We have no evidence that she didn't win dude.

Any evidence against her winning dwelves into the level on conspiracy theory.

Besides, it seems that vets actually topped the ballot.

 

[TechPowah]

i can't believe people still think this Shulk leak is real
he's just a shopped Little Mac, people

 

[spinalwolf]

The salty tears of bayo haters complaining that she got in over their favorite character is delicious. There's tons of characters I wanted in over her and hell I hate both spectating and fighting against her, but man seeing you people get salty over a character just cause she got in is sad.

 

[Dracyoshi]

There are a couple characters that I'd rather have in over Bayonetta, but I'm actually a big fan of her and I'm glad that she's in. It's unfortunate that she turned out to be broken, but this was her only chance anyway as I doubt she'd get in without the ballot and I'd definitely take her if it meant getting my preferred favorites like Ashley and K. Rool in the next game instead.

(I don't remember if I even voted on the ballot tho)

 

[Jetsurge]

I stand by my words that they should've added in 2 ballot characters instead of Corrin.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Corrin may have been the worst thing ever to happen for me in any Smash Direct (literally killed my hype). 2 FE characters as DLC when we already received 2 more from the base roster seemed VERY overkill and Sakurai should have stuck to his intuition that there was would indeed be too many FE characters with the inclusion of Corrin instead of giving into his hardcore FE fan development team and maybe Nintendo. It didn't help that her kit practically revolves around spamming her side-b Pin attack (which is obnoxious); hopefully they make her more "different" than her smash 4 iteration. I think DLC introduced way too many abusive characters that are able to do things much easier than the base roster (looking at you Bayo / Cloud / Corrin / Ryu).

I hope DLC in this game is more about the Ballot or fan requests.

Lord help me if we get more Fire Emblem Reps shoved at us.... I'll buy anyway.

 

[BlondeLombax]

You are a very bitter man.

I haven't seen this much pettiness in a long time.

I remember witnessing such pettiness within a single back when 4 released, around the time Ridley was revealed as a boss. I'd love to share, but I dare not speak his username. Just trust me, go to GameXplain's videos surrounding Sm4sh around the time of release concerning Ridley, and see the comments section. You can't miss him.

 

[Deleted member]

...are we really going to whine about a DLC announcement from almost three years ago now?
I thought we were better than this.

 

[papagenos]

Corrin may have been the worst thing ever to happen for me in any Smash Direct. 2 FE characters as DLC when we already received 2 more from the base roster seemed VERY overkill and Sakurai should have stuck to his intuition that there was would indeed be too many FE characters with the inclusion of Corrin instead of giving into his hardcore FE fan development team and maybe Nintendo. It didn't help that her kit practically revolves around spamming her side-b (which is obnoxious); hopefully they make her more "different" than her smash 4 iteration. I think DLC introduced way too many abusive characters that are able to things much easier than the base roster (looking at you Bayo / Cloud / Corrin / Ryu).

Corrin was also the ONLY nintendo first party newcomer DLC character. the rest were returning vets or third party. So literally not a single one of the highly asked for nintendo newcomers got in, DLC was like a sigh of relief around here for people still waiting for a character thinking "well they might be DLC!". Forever salty. Thank sakurai for smash ultimate.

 

[Zinith]

...are we really going to whine about a DLC announcement from almost three years ago now?
I thought we were better than this.

Agree
Let's move on!!!

 

[MainJPW]

I don't know why Knuckles isn't just playable. He can do anything.

We get to see Knuckles's appearance as an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate in this clip from RAGE 2018! pic.twitter.com/2x79v2iLZo

— Mlick (@Mlickles) June 28, 2018

No seriously, the more I see him the more I wish he was controllable. He's doing too much for an AT.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Corrin was also the ONLY nintendo first party newcomer DLC character. the rest were returning vets or third party. So literally not a single one of the highly asked for nintendo newcomers got in, DLC was like a sigh of relief around here for people still waiting for a character thinking "well they might be DLC!". Forever salty. Thank sakurai for smash ultimate.

Yes, which is why Corrin was possibly the worst PR move Sakurai / Nintendo has ever did in Smash (maybe other than outright dismissing Ridley in the past.)

Also; I heard that Fates wasn't well received AND NOT TO MENTION his/her game was not even in stores internationally when Corrin was announced for Smash. Pure cash-grab / advertisement from Nintendo's part.

 

[Arcanir]

Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled program, but I’m just curious as to how many more newcomers everyone believes are to be revealed?

I’m trying to determine something, and I need other people’s input.

Right now, I personally believe we have 9 more newcomers to be revealed. Making 12 total.

This does NOT include DLC. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Thank you.

Disclaimer: I don’t want to know who...just how many?

I think around nine more newcomers is what I'd guess as well, with the final ratio of unique characters and Echoes being about ~3:1.

While the focus will be on veterans this time around, Sakurai does like stuffing his games with as much new content as possible, and I can see him try to cram as many new characters as he can because of that. Around 9 total unique newcomers feels like a good balance between adding new faces that people would like to see along with bringing back many old ones that people loved.

With Echoes, due to the new name I feel the idea behind them is going to be similar to Melee where Sakurai pads out the roster with popular favorites that can be brought in due to ease of development. While I don't think we'll get six like in Melee, around half of that would be a good spot to aim for since it wouldn't make the concept feel too bloated and it'd be balanced out with the ~9 unique newcomers

 

[BlondeLombax]

I don't know why Knuckles isn't just playable. He can do anything.

We get to see Knuckles's appearance as an assist trophy in Smash Ultimate in this clip from RAGE 2018! pic.twitter.com/2x79v2iLZo

— Mlick (@Mlickles) June 28, 2018

No seriously, the more I see him the more I wish he was controllable. He's doing too much for an AT.

Well on one hand, he'd be a pretty awesome fighter when you think about it, thanks to his digging, punching, gliding, all that good stuff. The fact that he was meant to be in Project M definitely sheds some light on the situation.

On the other hand, do we really need people spamming about "da wae" on Smash videos concerning him? The meme's kinda gone far enough.

Yes, which is why Corrin was possibly the worst PR move Sakurai / Nintendo has ever did in Smash (maybe other than outright dismissing Ridley in the past.)

Spoiler: What did the other guys just say?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Oh yay.

I came into Bayonetta hate.

Goodie.

By the way?

Don't lump Bayo fans in or even pretend to know us. As an active member of the Bayonetta fanbase. Let me tell you the fact you stated about us belittling Devil May Cry is so funny when you consider we stan Kamiya who created Dante as well. IF Anything?

We love Dante just as much as we love Bayonetta.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yes, which is why Corrin was possibly the worst PR move Sakurai / Nintendo has ever did in Smash (maybe other than outright dismissing Ridley in the past.)

Oh please.

Let's not get so melodramatic.

We gonna forget Dark Pit and how much hatred he got?

We gonna forget the panic when news outlets thought Smash 4 would have less characters than Brawl?

We gonna forget Nintendo trying to stop Melee being at EVO?

Corrin isn't even close to the worst thing to happen to Smash. PR or otherwise. People like Corrin generally. A lot of people like playing as Corrin that don't even like them in their game.

Worst PR move, my ass.

 

[Zinith]

I said that questioning Bayonetta's legitimacy irritates me, but apologetics for her annoy me just as much. Bayo's here to stay, but everyone has a right to not like a character for ANY reason. We should just move on from all that ballot nonsense and let Bayo lovers and Bayo haters co-exist...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

let Bayo lovers and Bayo haters co-exist...

Uh...

How?

 

[CJ Falcon]

Corrin is still the only character I wish was never in Smash. Are there even any people that like Corrin other than weebs who are obsessed with "waifus"?

 

[Zinith]

Uh...

How?

Just as any character has had lovers and haters co-exist since the first Smash...

 

[Deleted member]

Can we CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE?

 

[BlondeLombax]

Corrin is still the only character I wish was never in Smash. Are there even any people that like Corrin other than weebs who are obsessed with "waifus"?

To be fair, I like Corrin for one reason and one reason alone...

THEY'RE PARTIALLY A MOTHERPECKING DRAGON.

Literally, Corrin's status as a Manakete makes them the most unique of the Fire Emblem ensemble, relying mostly on their transformations and powers and hardly ever using their sword at all (which, mind you, is a pecking chainsaw sword). There's a lot of reasons as to why Corrin has fans, and I'm confident that the "MAI WAIFU" crowd is in the utmost minority of those fans.

Can we CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE?

Let's listen to the Owlman, people. This is a place for hype, not hatred, we don't want to end up like the kids in the BitF Smash series review.

 

[Zinith]

Can we CHANGE THE TOPIC PLEASE?

Don't mind if I do....





So what about Yoshi?

Nah, I'm just kidding. I don't know what topic to start...

 

[MainJPW]

Zinith Have you seen this? I tried imagining his old design in Smash after seeing it.

Time for a little controversy pic.twitter.com/hh645xajCA

— Hex (@TheBlackHex) June 23, 2018

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayonetta is practically a Nintendo character now. Deal with it.

End of discussion. She might be owned by Sega, but Nintendo is the one with the stake in her future.

The fact that Bayonetta 2 is the start of a seemingly long future on Nintendo systems and that Nintendo promotes her even within the company as their own is more than enough justification for her in Smash even without the ballot.

 

[Zinith]

Zinith Have you seen this? I tried imagining his old design in Smash after seeing it.

Time for a little controversy pic.twitter.com/hh645xajCA

— Hex (@TheBlackHex) June 23, 2018

This image seems kinda biased, and when it comes to Smash and maining Yoshi for all of it I do NOT want to go back to the hunched dinosaur design.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Corrin is still the only character I wish was never in Smash. Are there even any people that like Corrin other than weebs who are obsessed with "waifus"?

It should be obvious that there are several.

And I'm not sure you can talk about weebiness man. You're giving off vibes of the other kind of stereotypical weeb. The kind that push DBZ and Jojo down people's throats.

 

[CJ Falcon]

And I'm not sure you can talk about weebiness man. You're giving off vibes of the other kind of stereotypical weeb. The kind that push DBZ and Jojo down people's throats.

I'm not sure what you mean. When did I say one word of DBZ or Jojo?

 

[Dracyoshi]

I love Corrin. Everything about his design just ticks the right boxes for me. Dragon transformations? AWESOME.
But besides my own personal biases, I understand the hate behind Corrin. Fire Emblem really didn't need another character, and there were a lot of bigger first party reps to choose from.
But am I gonna get angry about that? Nah, because another fighter that I like is another fighter that I like and it's best to not get hung up on what could've been anyway. I'm glad that they were included, and I wouldn't have them cut especially when other people love Corrin as well.
Frankly, I'd rather have Corrin over almost every other FE fighter. Like BlondeLombax said, Corrin is probably the most unique out of the entire FE roster.

Anyway, that's my word on this. Moving on...

Zinith Have you seen this? I tried imagining his old design in Smash after seeing it.

Time for a little controversy pic.twitter.com/hh645xajCA

— Hex (@TheBlackHex) June 23, 2018

I love both designs, but definitely prefer the new one! The old design feels more earthly, but I think that's mostly down to his expression. The new design has a lot more polish, the shell-shaped saddle looks better, the proportions are improved and I wouldn't want to go back to hunchback Yoshi.

 

[papagenos]

I think around nine more newcomers is what I'd guess as well, with the final ratio of unique characters and Echoes being about ~3:1.

While the focus will be on veterans this time around, Sakurai does like stuffing his games with as much new content as possible, and I can see him try to cram as many new characters as he can because of that. Around 9 total unique newcomers feels like a good balance between adding new faces that people would like to see along with bringing back many old ones that people loved.

With Echoes, due to the new name I feel the idea behind them is going to be similar to Melee where Sakurai pads out the roster with popular favorites that can be brought in due to ease of development. While I don't think we'll get six like in Melee, around half of that would be a good spot to aim for since it wouldn't make the concept feel too bloated and it'd be balanced out with the ~9 unique newcomers

I've been guessing at 7 mostly cause of this:



I know its arbitrary, but this is the first time they've numbered the newcomers and made a point about the original 12 so i think guessing at the CSS being laid out this way actually has some merit behind it (and yes i know after dlc it probly wouldnt look "clean" but the 3ds version of smash 4 had a button to select DLC so they could repeat this here).

of course 12 newcomers also fits the mention of the original 12 though so im kinda banking on either of those (7 or 12) being our number of newcomers before DLC.

Theres also something kinda neat you can do if you take the echo fighters away (as in somehow they share a spot the way they share a "number" with their counter part). you can lay out a CSS where the mii's and random fall on the "edges" and also all the newcomers have a staggered row to themselves separate from ALL the past fighters (again kind of emphasizing the EVERYONE IS HERE thing):



Ignore the character choices, I just wanted to point out the cool CSS layout that works if you put everyone in AND remove the echo fighters/make them somehow select-able on the same icon as their counterpart... not sure if i think they'll get their own icon or not though...

ya know i might just make a video about the CSS and the debate for "how many more characters we have coming", its sort of dumb to try and predict based on this info as sakurai has never been one for a clean CSS and hes always added "clones" or cut planned characters right before the end of development so the CSS seems like an after thought to him, but at the same time we've never gone into smash speculation with the knowledge that every vets returning and that they are all numbered so we have a much better precedence to think this may mean something for our CSS and total number of characters.

 

[Zinith]

Of course I love ALL Yoshi designs except Melee, but the more anthropomorphic Yoshi is definitely better for Smash. Plus it kinda indicates a removal from being known as a steed when he's more human-like.

A negative though is this bizarre insistence on giving him a specific animal noise ("YOSHI YOSHI!!!") rather than just having him speak. The old Yoshi spoke just fine...

 

[Dracyoshi]

Of course I love ALL Yoshi designs except Melee, but the more anthropomorphic Yoshi is definitely better for Smash. Plus it kinda indicates a removal from being known as a steed when he's more human-like.

A negative though is this bizarre insistence on giving him a specific animal noise ("YOSHI YOSHI!!!") rather than just having him speak. The old Yoshi spoke just fine...

Oh man, I thought I was the only one who I loved every Yoshi design except his Melee design. He lost all of his charm when they grittified him.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Yoshi and Bowser standing more upright was amazing. Now give Bowser and DK their actual voices.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Melee DK, Yoshi and Falco aged horribly.

 

[MainJPW]

A negative though is this bizarre insistence on giving him a specific animal noise ("YOSHI YOSHI!!!") rather than just having him speak. The old Yoshi spoke just fine...

He's no different from a Pokemon in that respect. Maybe Yoshi's a narcissist. I'm sure he still talks, he must pay bills and stuff, otherwise...why does he have a mailbox?

Now give Bowser and DK their actual voices.

I just headcanon that DK and Koopa put on their "mean" voices for Smash to scare the opposition.