Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Call me a tin foil hat-wearer, but I still don't think Bayonetta was the real winner of the ballot. Especially since Sakurai can bend the definition of realistic/realizable to mean whatever he wants it to mean.

She obviously wasn't, but I could see her being highly ranked. Sakurai never said the one with the most votes was gonna win anyway, but I imagine she'd still need a sizeable enough vote count to at least be recognized. But hey, that's just a theory. Don't finish it.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

See, the difference here is that FE7 was actually good.

I mean in terms of gameplay I'd personally rank Conquest above FE7 quite a bit... Probably because FE7's mid game is very boring and easy even on HHM.

Then again 2 of my favorite FE's 3 and 9 are also very easy. Every FE game has stuff to offer people though, I don't think I can stress that enough.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Geno??? What?! You're not sold on Simon Belmont, but you're expecting a random party member from a random game that never appeared in a game since? Why?

Well, there’s a huge fan demand for him, Sakurai seems to have an affinity for the character himself, going so far as to think about including him since Brawl, and giving him a Mii Costume in Smash 4. Geno also garnered a lot of votes during the days of the Ballot, and though we don’t know the true Ballot results, many online ballots had Geno as high ranking, and that spans across the West, Europe, and Japan.

With Square and Nintendo being on such great terms with each other, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Geno actually make it on to the roster this time. I mean, this is supposed to be the ultimate Smash Bros game after all.

All this vs. A character from a popular franchise, and even one Sakurai reveres, but has only seen a large fan outcry in the recent months due to a purposed leak of his inclusion. I know fan demand existed for him before the leak, but nowhere near the same outcry as for Geno.

I’m not saying Simon won’t be in either. He could be for all I know, and Geno be relegated to a costume again.

I’m not a supporter of either character. Their inclusion or exclusion is whatever to me.

I’m just going off observation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People also need to remember the ballot got like, 1.2 million votes. That's a lot less than you'd think a Smash Ballot would have too

 

[Jedisupersonic]

As for Bayonetta I still stand by her having absolutely no place in Smash Bros. Always will. I also think her winning the Smash ballot was a sham, though I'm sure this has been discussed to death already. I also find most of the Bayonetta fans obnoxious in my experience. Like they almost seem unable to talk about her games without belittling Devil May Cry lol. Doesn't help how she's completely busted in Smash.

If there's one silver lining to her being in Smash it's that a lot of people hate her now who would have otherwise stayed indifferent or not even know about the franchise at all. To the point where people flat out boo at her when she's on the screen lol.

Funny because as someone who loves DMC and Bayonetta as games and has several friends who like both as well, we're more upset with how Bayo was incorperated into Smash than her actually being there.

Maybe I got luckier with the people I talked to about DMC & Bayo with though.

Speaking of DMC, I love that we're finally getting a 5th game.

 

[Idon]

Funny because as someone who loves DMC and Bayonetta as games and has several friends who like both as well, we're more upset with how Bayo was incorperated into Smash than her actually being there.

Maybe I got luckier with the people I talked to about DMC & Bayo with though.

Speaking of DMC, I love that we're finally getting a 5th game.

BANG
BANG
BANG
PULL MY DEVIL TRIGGER

 

[Zinith]

Grrr, talking about Bayonetta's legitimacy irritates me. Look, no matter what you think about the ballot results, no matter your feelings on how she fits into Smash, no matter your opinions on being a broken character, and no matter how much you loathe her guts, what's done is done. Time to move on. If I was someone who had hang-ups all the time, I'd still be whining about Brawl Yoshi's metagame to this day...

 

[Hinata]

Funny because as someone who loves DMC and Bayonetta as games and has several friends who like both as well, we're more upset with how Bayo was incorperated into Smash than her actually being there.

Maybe I got luckier with the people I talked to about DMC & Bayo with though.

Speaking of DMC, I love that we're finally getting a 5th game.

Man, when are we gettin' my homeboy Dante in Smash? Bayonetta, but wielding a better version of Cloud's sword.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm pretty sure Geno made a cameo in Superstar Saga or something

Well, there’s a huge fan demand for him, Sakurai seems to have an affinity for the character himself, going so far as to think about including him since Brawl, and giving him a Mii Costume in Smash 4. Geno also garnered a lot of votes during the days of the Ballot, and though we don’t know the true Ballot results, many online ballots had Geno as high ranking, and that spans across the West, Europe, and Japan.

With Square and Nintendo being on such great terms with each other, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Geno actually make it on to the roster this time. I mean, this is supposed to be the ultimate Smash Bros game after all.

All this vs. A character from a popular franchise, and even one Sakurai reveres, but has only seen a large fan outcry in the recent months due to a purposed leak of his inclusion. I know fan demand existed for him before the leak, but nowhere near the same outcry as for Geno.

I’m not saying Simon won’t be in either. He could be for all I know, and Geno be relegated to a costume again.

I’m not a supporter of either character. Their inclusion or exclusion is whatever to me.

I’m just going off observation.

This argument doesn't support Geno any more than any other character that's been acknowledged by Sakurai or made into a costume. Waluigi and Krystal were popular and acknowledged by Sakurai. Jacky & Akira are costumes and "Oh, look at the relationship between Nintendo and Sega!"

 

[osby]

Grrr, talking about Bayonetta's legitimacy irritates me. Look, no matter what you think about the ballot results, no matter your feelings on how she fits into Smash, no matter your opinions on being a broken character, and no matter how much you loathe her guts, what's done is done. Time to move on. If I was someone who had hang-ups all the time, I'd still be whining about Brawl Yoshi's metagame to this day...

I can talk about how glad I am for Smash to introducing me with Bayonetta but I doubt it would be a popular topic.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

As long as it's better than PSASBR Dante who couldn't even have his iconic "juggle foes with pistol fire" bit or a Classic series costume.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

This argument doesn't support Geno any more than any other character that's been acknowledged by Sakurai or made into a costume. Waluigi and Krystal were popular and acknowledged by Sakurai. Jacky & Akira are costumes and "Oh, look at the relationship between Nintendo and Sega!"

"—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?
Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality."
https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-wanted-geno-to-be-a-playable-character-in-super-smash-bros/

Sakurai has at least toyed with the idea.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This argument doesn't support Geno any more than any other character that's been acknowledged by Sakurai or made into a costume. Waluigi and Krystal were popular and acknowledged by Sakurai. Jacky & Akira are costumes and "Oh, look at the relationship between Nintendo and Sega!"

Unlike your examples other than Waluigi, Sakurai said that Geno was popular and that he wanted to make Geno playable.

 

[Will]

Grrr, talking about Bayonetta's legitimacy irritates me. Look, no matter what you think about the ballot results, no matter your feelings on how she fits into Smash, no matter your opinions on being a broken character, and no matter how much you loathe her guts, what's done is done. Time to move on. If I was someone who had hang-ups all the time, I'd still be whining about Brawl Yoshi's metagame to this day...

Nobody said anything against her we were just talking about her hypothetical true placing in the ballot.

 

[PhantomShab]

Grrr, talking about Bayonetta's legitimacy irritates me. Look, no matter what you think about the ballot results, no matter your feelings on how she fits into Smash, no matter your opinions on being a broken character, and no matter how much you loathe her guts, what's done is done. Time to move on. If I was someone who had hang-ups all the time, I'd still be whining about Brawl Yoshi's metagame to this day...

As long as she's there on the character screen winking at you she'll always be a reminder of what happened.

 

[Hinata]

Nobody said anything against her

"As for Bayonetta I still stand by her having absolutely no place in Smash Bros. Always will."

"If there's one silver lining to her being in Smash it's that a lot of people hate her now"

 

[TheLastJinjo]

"—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?
Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality."
https://nintendosoup.com/sakurai-wanted-geno-to-be-a-playable-character-in-super-smash-bros/

Sakurai has at least toyed with the idea.

I already acknowledged this. Remeber when I said "Krystal was acknowledged by Sakurai and yet she's an Assist Trophy?"

What is this? Like why are you presenting this to me, like I didn't know about it? I already said that I did.

 

[Will]

"As for Bayonetta I still stand by her having absolutely no place in Smash Bros. Always will."

"If there's one silver lining to her being in Smash it's that a lot of people hate her now"

They don't exist to me.

 

[CJ Falcon]

I still like Bayonetta even if she is broken. Seeing her make it in Smash was a pleasant surprise that made up for the atrocity of Corrin.

 

[Androobie]

Oh boy, this is going to be a wild ride.

 

[Hinata]

The problem I have with Bayonetta being broken is that nobody around me believes me when I tell them I play her because I like her character and I've wanted her in Smash in so long. Everyone immediately assumes I'm playing her because she's broken and I want her to make up for whatever lack of skill I have.

Makes me sad.

 

[Will]

I still like Bayonetta even if she is broken. Seeing her make it in Smash was a pleasant surprise that made up for the atrocity of Corrin.

The problem I have with Bayonetta being broken is that nobody around me believes me when I tell them I play her because I like her character and I've wanted her in Smash in so long. Everyone immediately assumes I'm playing her because she's broken and I want her to make up for whatever lack of skill I have.

Makes me sad.

Lot of the DLC was powerful in their own right, I think the only ones that are mid to low tier are Lucas and Roy.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

The problem I have with Bayonetta being broken is that nobody around me believes me when I tell them I play her because I like her character and I've wanted her in Smash in so long. Everyone immediately assumes I'm playing her because she's broken and I want her to make up for whatever lack of skill I have.

Makes me sad.

That is sad because her games have so much personality and flair as does she.

Kinda reminds me why i'm hesitant to play Cloud sometimes (I still really like playing Smash 4 Ike but I love both FE and FF)

 

[Jetsurge]

Edit: It's just Gaur Plains

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I already acknowledged this. Remeber when I said "Krystal was acknowledged by Sakurai and yet she's an Assist Trophy?"

What is this? Like why are you presenting this to me, like I didn't know about it? I already said that I did.

Because you never listen to anyone.

 

[Will]

Apparently this stage is not Gaur Plains instead it might a new stage. Looks to me like it might be The Lost Underworld from Earthbound. Bring on the Giant Dinosaurs! What do you guys think?

View attachment 150539

Dude we've gone through this pages ago it's Gaur heckin' Plains. I've 100%'d Xenoblade Chronicles thrice I should probably get a degree in Gaur Plainsology, because I can spot a Gaur Plains when I see one and that boy is straight-up Gaur Plains.

 

[Hinata]

That is sad because her games have so much personality and flair as does she.

Kinda reminds me why i'm hesitant to play Cloud sometimes (I still really like playing Smash 4 Ike but I love both FE and FF)

It honestly makes me hope she gets nerfed to Inferno and back in Smash Ultimate, just so that I can play her without gettin' **** for it.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

Apparently this stage is not Gaur Plains instead it might a new stage. Looks to me like it might be The Lost Underworld from Earthbound. Bring on the Giant Dinosaurs! What do you guys think?

View attachment 150539

It is absolutely Gaur Plains

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Same landmarks, same artstyle.

 

[MainJPW]

Apparently this stage is not Gaur Plains instead it might a new stage. Looks to me like it might be The Lost Underworld from Earthbound. Bring on the Giant Dinosaurs! What do you guys think?

View attachment 150539

It's literally Gaur Plain.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Zinith]

Lot of the DLC was powerful in their own right, I think the only ones that are mid to low tier are Lucas and Roy.

Those were the only two DLC characters who weren't in the E3 build....

Really makes you think...

 

[SmashingXan2]

Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled program, but I’m just curious as to how many more newcomers everyone believes are to be revealed?

I’m trying to determine something, and I need other people’s input.

Right now, I personally believe we have 9 more newcomers to be revealed. Making 12 total.

This does NOT include DLC. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Thank you.

Disclaimer: I don’t want to know who...just how many?

7 more, total of 9 or 10, nor sure if I will count echo

 

[Will]

Those were the only two DLC characters who weren't in the E3 build....

Really makes you think...

Probably just some workarounds and buffs. Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta were the most recent DLC and it kinda makes sense to put 'em there, but I have no idea why Mewtwo showed up.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

This argument doesn't support Geno any more than any other character that's been acknowledged by Sakurai or made into a costume. Waluigi and Krystal were popular and acknowledged by Sakurai. Jacky & Akira are costumes and "Oh, look at the relationship between Nintendo and Sega!"

I mean, okay, you saying this doesn’t do anything to disprove him. Masahiro Sakurai, the director of Super Smash Bros, has gone on record to say he wants Geno to be a playable character. Going so far as to make a Mii Costume for him in acknowledgment of the character, and the desire of fans who want him in as well.

What has Simon got? Other than Sakurai saying he likes Castlevania. I don’t see a costume or Assist Trophy for him, or any mention of him at all throughout the entirety of Super Smash Bros. history.

What’s your argument for Simon? I’m genuinely curious.

You can not like a character. That’s fine, but literally taking all the evidence for Geno’s POSSIBLE, BUT NOT GUARANTEED inclusion, and just being like “Meh. I don’t like it, so no.”, is just silly.

Simon could very well be playable in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. All I am saying is, there are other 3rd Party reps that could make it in instead.

 

[Jetsurge]

Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled program, but I’m just curious as to how many more newcomers everyone believes are to be revealed?

I’m trying to determine something, and I need other people’s input.

Right now, I personally believe we have 9 more newcomers to be revealed. Making 12 total.

This does NOT include DLC. We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Thank you.

Disclaimer: I don’t want to know who...just how many?

The same as Melee. 8 newcomers, 6 echo/clone characters.

 

[Idon]

Bayo and Cloud are the perfect example of how there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

Also come on, why does Cloud get sword beams and Ike doesn't smh.

 

[Hinata]

Let's flip this topic around a bit.

How many DLC characters do y'all expect? Keep in mind that Sakurai has gone on record stating that DLC characters are less intensive on the dev team to make.

 

[Will]

6 echo/clone characters.

Dios Mio, I'd rather not.

 

[Slavic]

Hey on the plus side that means we get a cool Ramblin' Evil Mushroom assist, which is fun! Having three Mother assists is great

Unless.... there's something deeper???

 

[SmashingXan2]

Same. I hope we have a lax ruleset and change things up so that we can have as many competitively viable stages as possible. Not cut good stages because we have "too many".

Well, with stage hazard toggle, I think most stages will be viable

 

[Will]

Let's flip this topic around a bit.

How many DLC characters do y'all expect? Keep in mind that Sakurai has gone on record stating that DLC characters are less intensive on the dev team to make.

Depends on what they want. At a minimum, I'd say 5. At a maximum, I'd say 8 - 10. Rex/Pyra and Spring Man are definitely in that list, and then maybe a new Pokemon. Whatever comes after that is free game for speculation.