Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jedisupersonic]

I dunno, can he pull off a Puke Green and Hot Pink combo?

Please don't remind me of a certain class trial courtroom in Danganronpa 1...

Spoiler

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I agree that that is a possibility, but you can't confirm that. Also, I never said that Dr. Mario's moves are unfitting. Who in the world do you think you are responding to? Certainly not me.

It can be confirmed, Sakurai outright said the reason Dr. Mario wasn't an alt-costume in Smash 4 was because he didn't want to disappoint fans of his Melee appearance, and the whole modus operandi with veterans is that Sakurai doesn't fundamentally change them from their debut appearance so their fans don't get alienated (i.e. the reason why Ganondorf has remained a semi-clone of Captain Falcon and why none of the Original 12 have had their character design substantially updated). And you've been arguing prior that Mario's moves wouldn't be fitting for Dr. Mario and thus that is why he has such moveset changes, then using that as "evidence" that Shadow can't be an Echo of Sonic.

 

[Murlough]

Not saying it ain't scummy.

Just saying I don't care one way or another.

Thats fair. I wasn't judging or anything. Since its Smash I'd probably throw as much money at them as possible outside of Mii costumes.

 

[Wyoming]

https://nintendoeverything.com/regg...-for-playable-waluigi-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

oh no

Erm, Reggie...that's not a good idea....

 

[Dracyoshi]

@ fake leak 1
ROWLET OVER DECIDUEYE?
...points for being adventurous, I guess.

 

[KMDP]

Do you not consider it scummy? I'm just curious what your thoughts are on it. I thought it was unanimously considered a terrible thing for companies to do.

...Depends on if the DLC is on disc, I suppose.
If it is, then better get the newspaper to boop the game company on the nose and say "Bad! Bad Game Company, no DLC on the disc!"
If it isn't, then the DLC was made after the game was finished and that's okay... sort of...
...I'm tired right now. XD

 

[Hinata]

I checked 4chan for some leaks.

And oh boy there were leaks.

Spoiler: Leak 1

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422231530
I have been informed of the following Smash new characters from an outside source. With the amount of garbage dumped here, that is the place they feel most comfortable releasing the information to not have it traced back to them.

The next time Smash appears in a direct, Incineroar will be shown as an echo first, using Captain Falcon/Ganondorf as the base. He will play identically to the Ganondorf from earlier titles. The fully unique newcomer is Rowlet, who will be the smallest character in the game.

I have no idea of the release order of the other characters, but K. Rool, Roto from Dragon Quest, and Dark Samus are the other newcomers. Dark Samus is not an echo. No other echoes are known, and they will be decided upon later if there is time.

Spoiler: Leak 2

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422223734
I've got information on an upcoming Nintendo Direct Mini that will be announced later this summer.

>Splatoon 2 is getting a 4.0 update, this update will add new weapons, new gear, and 2 new ranked modes.

>The first mode is called Rocket Blast, in this mode players will need to fire ink at a rocket, if your team hit the rocket more, it will blastoff and land closer to the enemy base.

>The second mode is called Crazy Eight, where you have to push a giant 8 ball to different checkpoints as you make your way towards the enemy base.

>Also, Flounder Heights and Ancho-V Games are returning from Splatoon 1

>Super Mario Odyssey is getting a free update, adding Isle Delphino as a new kingdom. It's also getting more costumes, including an 8bit costume, and they'll show off one new hint artwork. Will be released in the Fall.

>Super Mario Party will have a story mode, a new villain who looks like a dice block is making everyone in the Mushroom Kingdom hate each other. Mario is immune because he doesn't hate anyone, so he has to find a way to save his friends.

>Zelda: Links Awakening is getting a remake for the 3DS, will be released alongside a 2DS Special Edition

>The direct will end with more information about Warioware Gold for 3DS, including amiibo support.

>After this they'll reveal that Ashley will be in Smash Ultimate, along with the Game and Wario stage.

Spoiler: Leak 3

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422212796
Can confirm via a trusted source that these are our newcomers - Ashley, Isaac, Simon Belmont, Geno, Decidueye, King K.Rool, Dixie Kong (Semi-Echo of Diddy) Elma and Mach Rider. Shadow and Octolings are echoes of Sonic and Inklings.

July 20th Ashley reveal, Isaac and Decidueye in August, King K. Rool and Dixie in September, Simon and Geno in October, Elma in November with Mach Rider and the Echoes being saved for post-release.

K. Rool is the first character the 30+ club. Congrats I guess. There are also 45 leaks now. It's only been 14 days since Nintendo's E3 presentation. That's 3.21 leaks a day.

If we get another character shafted into being a C. Falcon clone, I'll scream.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It can be confirmed, Sakurai outright said the reason Dr. Mario wasn't an alt-costume in Smash 4 was because he didn't want to disappoint fans of his Melee appearance, and the whole modus operandi with veterans is that Sakurai doesn't fundamentally change them from their debut appearance so their fans don't get alienated (i.e. the reason why Ganondorf has remained a semi-clone of Captain Falcon and why none of the Original 12 have had their character design substantially updated). And you've been arguing prior that Mario's moves wouldn't be fitting for Dr. Mario and thus that is why he has such moveset changes, then using that as "evidence" that Shadow can't be an Echo of Sonic.

No. You said "Dr. Mario is not labelled an echo fighter because of legacy reasons" and I said "You can't confirm that."

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If we get another character shafted into being a C. Falcon clone, I'll scream.

Don't you want Super Smash Falcons?

 

[Idon]

Great, now in about 9 months time, Waluigi will be released and then the online idiots and bandwagoners can now move on to their next meme to push for Smash. This time, I'm going to guess they're going to land on the "Where's Bandanna Dee" train.

 

[Dracyoshi]

If we get another character shafted into being a C. Falcon clone, I'll scream.

The leak left out Blood Falcon, the next new Captain Falcon clone to be released as DLC in March 2019!

 

[Enchess]

I dont think Saki will be playable I would love to see him as a playable character but the problem with that by looking at Elma and Saki they probably will play similar. I think the fake rumor probably has Saki on the list to make it legit.

Elma and Saki don't actually have much in common other than weapons really. Saki would likely feel a lot like ZSS with fast movement and jumps, but with some range attacks for specials. His tilts should be like Toon Links, but faster. His smashes could probably be Ruffian transformations (think Corrin's dragon attacks. I can also almost guarantee he'll have a prominent reflect down or side special I'd he's in. This reflect would be more like a more practical version of Ness's bat reflect than Fox's reflect. Overall, I imagine him moving fast and doing lots of fast but weak attacks.

Elma on the other hand would likely be a lot slower, but with faster no-knockback projectiles like Fox. I also feel like her melee would be more in line with Fire Emblem characters (feel-wise that is). I would probably expect her to have a jetpack to reference the mechs, which would be very different from Saki unless he borrowed from Isa Jo.

I'm rooting for both characters and honestly never even considered them as similar before, but I can see how people might be concerned if they haven't played a lot of both games. I know I had friends who thought Shulk would be too similar to FE characters because of anime swordsman, but he turned out very different and Saki and Elma should too (if in).

 

[Murlough]

@ fake leak 1
ROWLET OVER DECIDUEYE?
...points for being adventurous, I guess.

I mean to be fair Rowlet is the most popular Gen 7 mon in Japan so...it isn't completely silly.

 

[Takasmash]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/422212796
Can confirm via a trusted source that these are our newcomers - Ashley, Isaac, Simon Belmont, Geno, Decidueye, King K.Rool, Dixie Kong (Semi-Echo of Diddy) Elma and Mach Rider. Shadow and Octolings are echoes of Sonic and Inklings.

July 20th Ashley reveal, Isaac and Decidueye in August, King K. Rool and Dixie in September, Simon and Geno in October, Elma in November with Mach Rider and the Echoes being saved for post-release. Count is being updated now.

Sounds believable but he spell echo wrong it dont have a e at the end. Three characters reveal in a month seems like a good idea not it will make sense and it will be new from Sakurai. And I predict Simon Reveal will be better in fall its fake because its like a fan theory like I thought in my head. I think there should be more echo characters like Ninten Hilda and Chrom my wish that probably will be a surprise.

 

[Hinata]

Don't you want Super Smash Falcons?

I have witnessed this hell you speak of, and it is not a pretty one.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Dr. Mario isn't an echo fighter because he's too different from his base character to be considered one. "Legacy" or whatever doesn't have anything to do with it.

With new changes like his new down aerial...

...I think they're actively trying to put him in semi-clone territory now.

 

[MainJPW]

View attachment 150446
The only image I remember of Mario being not happy in Melee was his intro.

Yeah, I mean he's not angry here:

He's not angry here either:

And he smiles in two of his victory screens:

Something pissed him off after this game.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

https://nintendoeverything.com/regg...-for-playable-waluigi-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

oh no

Not sure what they were expecting tbh

How do they create something like this and not expect a massive upsurge in popularity?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Do you not consider it scummy? I'm just curious what your thoughts are on it. I thought it was unanimously considered a terrible thing for companies to do.

It really depends on how they do it. Pretty well for the last month before release, the game's already been sent out to get copied, so if the team's working on cosmetic things then it's not like they're wasting dev time on something that costs more. And remember, the balance team is going to be really busy later, so the art team definitely has time to start thinking about it now. I'd assume that Smash will finish being made around the end of October, so the whole month of November can be them getting DLC ready, and I doubt it'll take more than a month to pop out a few costumes.

Now if it's an on-disc character (or on-disc anything) that you need to buy an unlock code for...that's scummy. Or if it's a character that they're working on now but want to hold for DLC, that's a bit obnoxious since they're already making DLC when they should be focusing on the actual game.

 

[Zinith]

I dunno, can he pull off a Puke Green and Hot Pink combo?

I just realized...

Spoiler

He kind of can...

 

[Idon]

Sounds believable but he spell echo wrong it dont have a e at the end. Three characters reveal in a month seems like a good idea not it will make sense and it will be new from Sakurai. And I predict Simon Reveal will be better in fall its fake because its like a fan theory like I thought in my head. I think there should be more echo characters like Ninten Hilda and Chrom my wish that probably will be a surprise.

No, that's wrong!

 

[A Distant Demon]

https://nintendoeverything.com/regg...-for-playable-waluigi-in-smash-bros-ultimate/

oh no

This quote is basically like 70% of the fanbase

You would think that [making every character that’s ever been in a Smash Bros. game available in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate] would be enough to satisfy the fans. But noooooo! The fans have to focus in on one character that that isn’t part of the series and to demand their inclusion.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Dr. Mario isn't an echo fighter because he's too different from his base character to be considered one. "Legacy" or whatever doesn't have anything to do with it.

With new changes like his new down aerial...

...I think they're actively trying to put him in semi-clone territory now.

Yeah which is why Pichu is also not considered one. Pikachu actively changing it up in Ultimate. (Plus Pichu's unique mechanics).

I actually really like that Sakurai is doing that, same with YL since like Link has changed from Melee and Tink is his own Floaty beast somewhat.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, I mean he's not angry here:

He's not angry here either:

And he smiles in two of his victory screens:

Something pissed him off after this game.

Wave dashing. Wave dashing pissed him off.
Tripping didn't help.

 

[Takasmash]

Elma and Saki don't actually have much in common other than weapons really. Saki would likely feel a lot like ZSS with fast movement and jumps, but with some range attacks for specials. His tilts should be like Toon Links, but faster. His smashes could probably be Ruffian transformations (think Corrin's dragon attacks. I can also almost guarantee he'll have a prominent reflect down or side special I'd he's in. This reflect would be more like a more practical version of Ness's bat reflect than Fox's reflect. Overall, I imagine him moving fast and doing lots of fast but weak attacks.

Elma on the other hand would likely be a lot slower, but with faster no-knockback projectiles like Fox. I also feel like her melee would be more in line with Fire Emblem characters (feel-wise that is). I would probably expect her to have a jetpack to reference the mechs, which would be very different from Saki unless he borrowed from Isa Jo.

I'm rooting for both characters and honestly never even considered them as similar before, but I can see how people might be concerned if they haven't played a lot of both games. I know I had friends who thought Shulk would be too similar to FE characters because of anime swordsman, but he turned out very different and Saki and Elma should too (if in).

No, that's wrong!
View attachment 150454

Me the rumor spell echo wrong not me I point it out.

 

[Will]

Not sure what they were expecting tbh

View attachment 150453

How do they create something like this and not expect a massive upsurge in popularity?

I've been liking Waluigi since I got Mario Party 6 when I was way younger. Always thought he was cool just cause he was tall.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Dr. Mario isn't an echo fighter because he's too different from his base character to be considered one. "Legacy" or whatever doesn't have anything to do with it.

With new changes like his new down aerial...

...I think they're actively trying to put him in semi-clone territory now.

It's still weird that he's not labelled an echo fighter seeing how similar he is to Mario despite those things. Though, I can see them not wanting to intrude on the original 12, and then there is the confusion with Young Link being an echo because there are three Links and two of them are more similar to each other than they are to Adult Link.

 

[Idon]

Me the rumor spell echo wrong not me I point it out.

No. you're wrong.
Echo does have an e in it, if it's pluralalized.
Y'know, like "Heroes"

 

[Wambo]

New blog stuff. Look at Solgaleo's third pic.

Seriously, this isn't Gaur plain. What the hell is this stage?!

EDIT: Calling it now, we got a Saturn Valley stage. You can see a little hut in the background and I think Snake's pic with the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom confirms it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Can we all petition Sakurai to change the classic bumper item to the bumper from Sonic The Hedgehog? That would be so awesome in the long run. "Bum!"

Or you could make Omochao and item. "Hey! Put me down!"

 

[RandomAce]

Saki Amamiya Leaks?

In 2018?

Saki!?

(Dammit Isa looks so much more interesting than Saki)

It’s probably will be fake, but I still want Isaac so badly! Why can’t we get a newcomer reveal already?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

It's still weird that he's not labelled an echo fighter seeing how similar he is to Mario despite those things. Though, I can see them not wanting to intrude on the original 12, and then there is the confusion with Young Link being an echo because there are three Links and two of them are more similar to each other than they are to Adult Link.

Young Link still has what Melee Link did such as his rapid jab and sex kick, plus his other aerials, Toon Link has his own aerials and Fsmash among other things.

Toon Link is also much floatier than either Link ever was, YL & Tink aren't actually all that similar tbh. They may look like they have similar tools but they're differently used along with their more unique moves, Think Fox & Falco starting in Brawl.

 

[Will]

New blog stuff. Look at Solgaleo's third pic.

Seriously, this isn't Gaur plain. What the hell is this stage?!

Of course it isn't. If I were guessing boy I'd say Termina Field. Or just any Hyrule Field.

 

[Idon]

It's still weird that he's not labelled an echo fighter seeing how similar he is to Mario despite those things. Though, I can see them not wanting to intrude on the original 12, and then there is the confusion with Young Link being an echo because there are three Links and two of them are more similar to each other than they are to Adult Link.

Here's my handy-dandy guide to find out if a character is an echo!

1. Does it share the same stats almost exactly?
2. Does it share the same move animations almost exactly?

If yes to both, congrats he is an echo!

If not, he is probably just a clone instead!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

New blog stuff. Look at Solgaleo's third pic.

Seriously, this isn't Gaur plain. What the hell is this stage?!

EDIT: Calling it now, we got a Saturn Valley stage. You can see a little hut in the background and I think Snake's pic with the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom confirms it.

It looks like the Smash Run world to me.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It's still weird that he's not labelled an echo fighter seeing how similar he is to Mario despite those things. Though, I can see them not wanting to intrude on the original 12, and then there is the confusion with Young Link being an echo because there are three Links and two of them are more similar to each other than they are to Adult Link.

I think the thing with echo fighters is that they need to share the same moveset and such. There are some minor exceptions (Dark Pit still has Dark Pit Staff), but other than that, echo fighters get hardly any moveset changes. When they do, it usually changes one of the base characters' defining traits to make them different enough to give them a different playstyle for players, such as Lucina having her blade be balanced throughout. It's visuals like animations and taunts where they mainly differentiate themselves from their base fighter (see Daisy).

Dr. Mario (and evidently Pichu and Young Link), while he does share some attacks with his base fighter, he does have some unique attacks of his own, including Dr. Tornado and the new down aerial. I think that's grounds for not making him an echo - he's simply too different in both playstle and practice to be one.

 

[Will]

It's still weird that he's not labelled an echo fighter seeing how similar he is to Mario despite those things. Though, I can see them not wanting to intrude on the original 12, and then there is the confusion with Young Link being an echo because there are three Links and two of them are more similar to each other than they are to Adult Link.

Why is everyone so curfumpled about the definition of an Echo?
To be an Echo fighter, you must share -------> every single <------- move with the character you're cloning. Dr. Mario has a different Down-Air, and Young Link has a different F-Smash from Toon Link and has a hookshot unlike Link, meaning they can't be Echo fighters.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

No. You said "Dr. Mario is not labelled an echo fighter because of legacy reasons" and I said "You can't confirm that."

Dr. Mario is not labelled an Echo Fighter because he is not an Echo Fighter. He has gameplay differences beyond what an Echo Fighter entails, and it's because of his legacy of already being a more distinct clone than the likes of Lucina/Dark Pit from his original inclusion in Melee, where the clones there were all traditional-style clones, leading to Sakurai keeping the original design of Dr. Mario intact and expanding on it. Thus it's purely legacy reasons on why Dr. Mario is made to be more distinct than Echo Fighters, when sensibly he shouldn't be anything more than an alt-costume like Builder Mario and Wedding Mario when he's literally just Mario in doctor garb.

 

[A Distant Demon]

New blog stuff. Look at Solgaleo's third pic.

Seriously, this isn't Gaur plain. What the hell is this stage?!

EDIT: Calling it now, we got a Saturn Valley stage. You can see a little hut in the background and I think Snake's pic with the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom confirms it.

They're both pics of Gaur plains

You can even see one of the lakes from Gaur Plains (that was even in xenoblade!) in the Solgaleo pic.

 

[Dracyoshi]

New blog stuff. Look at Solgaleo's third pic.

Seriously, this isn't Gaur plain. What the hell is this stage?!

I'm pretty sure that it's Gaur Plain.

Spoiler: Comparison

https://i.imgur.com/7EnkGcG.jpg