Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[92MilesPrower]

This didn't stop them from making Lucina into a clone of Marth when she and her father (the man whose style she adopted) has nothing to do with Marth.

I'm also a Sonic fanboy, but I disagree with your post. Your points are good but I don't think him being an Echo (i'd rather semi clone too but still would be as much of a disservice as you're stating because he'd be in the game, and it's possibly his only shot of doing so.

Just because he could potentially be an echo doesn't mean that it's his only way to get in the game. For all we know, Shadow could've actually been requested a ton on the fighter ballot, and supporters could've shown Sakurai how unique he could be. That aside, there's nothing wrong with him being a Luigi-esque semi clone, he can have a bunch of different moves all around (Luigi doesn't share the majority of his moves with Mario, and some similar ones have different properties), while sharing a couple with Sonic, such as the Homing Attack, Spin Dash, as well as a couple of smashes, tilts, aerials, and throws.

Edit: Whoops, ignore the Semi-clone stuff I mentioned, misread things.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Oh, that'll be hard with so many good ones. Especially if you don't limit to demons that aren't just in SMT1.
Well for demons, they'd probably have to be:

1. Recognizable (80% of the demons are already pretty obscure)
2. The same size or smaller than the character (Surt is too Ridley)
3. Relatively non-religious (Sorry Lucifer)
4. Not explicitly kid-unfriendly (Mara's very existence is a bit of a joke)

So if I had to make a hypothetical prediction on what demons would be summoned, it'd be...
Jack Frost (duh)
Pixie (also duh)
Pyro Jack (less well-known but still relatively recognizable if you've ever played any of the games with demons)
Cu Chulainn (popular design within SMT, especially in Japan)
Alice (VERY popular design in Japan)
Pascal/Cerberus if they want to make the SMT rep Kazuya specifically.

There's probably more, but they're on a sliding scale of popularity/recognizability and also I have a ****ty memory.

These all sound like good choices, and yeah Jack Frost & Pixie for sure.

Alice being part of a final smash sounds hilarious, "DIE FOR ME" "Oh ok" *explodes*

Man now i'm just sitting here thinking how cool it'd be having Ruined Tokyo as a stage too.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Regardless of what happens with the characters that didn't make it and revealed ATs, at least it won't be nearly as much of a wasted opportunity like the Card Sagas War assists.
Seriously, Earthworm Jim's an assist in that and he only has the frigging marshmallow.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here's a hot take.

I think we won't get any more Mario newcomers, echoes or otherwise for the base roster.

What makes me say such a ridiculous claim?

Take a look at any Mario character's page on the official website.

Look at the part where it says other fighters from this series. It seems that the way they set this up is that each page can have a maximum of eight characters.

Now, of course this can change, there is room for more, but I doubt they would have set the website up this way if there were more Mario newcomers ready to be revealed.

 

[KMDP]

Oh, that'll be hard with so many good ones. Especially if you don't limit to demons that aren't just in SMT1.
Well for demons, they'd probably have to be:

1. Recognizable (80% of the demons are already pretty obscure)
2. The same size or smaller than the character (Surt is too Ridley)
3. Relatively non-religious (Sorry Lucifer)
4. Not explicitly kid-unfriendly (Mara's very existence is a bit of a joke)

So if I had to make a hypothetical prediction on what demons would be summoned, it'd be...
Jack Frost (duh)
Pixie (also duh)
Pyro Jack (less well-known but still relatively recognizable if you've ever played any of the games with demons)
Cu Chulainn (popular design within SMT, especially in Japan)
Alice (VERY popular design in Japan)
Pascal/Cerberus if they want to make the SMT rep Kazuya specifically.

There's probably more, but they're on a sliding scale of popularity/recognizability and also I have a ****ty memory.

What about a Wildcard Persona User (e.g. P3 protag, Yuu, Joker etc) as a mix between Shulk and Robin?
Have the Neutral Special operate as a Persona Change (using popular demons/personas like Jack Frost and their base ones), where the Persona they have equipped changes the element (damage, range, etc) of their moves?
Not too well versed in Shin Megami Tensei, all I know really is that Persona is the more popular half, especially after P5. (Really, though, they should still be openly calling it "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona", don't just discard half the franchise... c'mon, now.)

 

[Zinith]

Here's a hot take.

I think we won't get any more Mario newcomers, echoes or otherwise for the base roster.

What makes me say such a ridiculous claim?

Take a look at any Mario character's page on the official website.

Look at the part where it says other fighters from this series. It seems that the way they set this up is that each page can have a maximum of eight characters.

Now, of course this can change, there is room for more, but I doubt they would have set the website up this way if there were more Mario newcomers ready to be revealed.

That still leaves Donkey Kong, Yoshi and Wario though

Not that I'm advocating for newcomers for those series or anything

 

[Jedisupersonic]

What about a Wildcard Persona (e.g. P3 protag, Yuu, Joker etc) as a mix between Shulk and Robin?
Have the Neutral Special operate as a Persona Change (using popular demons/personas like Jack Frost and their base ones), where the Persona they have equipped changes the element (damage, range, etc) of their moves?
Not too well versed in Shin Megami Tensei, all I know really is that Persona is the more popular half, especially after P5. (Really, though, they should still be openly calling it "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona", don't just discard half the franchise... c'mon, now.)

Persona dropped the SMT deal, since well they're pretty much very much their own things by this point.

Persona is the creation of a simple little game called SMT:IF which was a what if story for SMT1, that turned into its own subfranchise Persona grew from that weird origin.

SMT is much more grimdark, bitter & brutal. Although funny enough SMT4A felt more Persona like at times(I love the games gameplay but ugh... 4 was fine as it was), and P5 felt more SMT like at times.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Here's a hot take.

I think we won't get any more Mario newcomers, echoes or otherwise for the base roster.

What makes me say such a ridiculous claim?

Take a look at any Mario character's page on the official website.

Look at the part where it says other fighters from this series. It seems that the way they set this up is that each page can have a maximum of eight characters.

Now, of course this can change, there is room for more, but I doubt they would have set the website up this way if there were more Mario newcomers ready to be revealed.

I'm viewing it on mobile and there's a clear blank space that one fighter can still fit in. Either way, using the official website as a be all end all thing is something we shouldn't be doing just because it'll look badly designed or whatever if one more character is added to a certain spot on the page.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Honestly between SMT and Persona I feel like we'd get a Persona character first. Persona is a wildly popular series, and similar to Cloud not appearing on a Nintendo console, I think we'd see Yu Narukami or Joker as they're both wildly popular and near iconic characters. I'd be more inclined to say Yu because Atlas can't seem to stop milking the poor cast of Persona 4.

 

[Murlough]

Alright, I think it's time for me, the resident diehard Sonic fanboy, to put this argument about Shadow to rest.

If Shadow were merely just an echo, it'd be a huge disappointment to me and many others. Although Shadow has the capability to be entirely unique, many would be happy if he was a Luigi-esque semi-clone. Anyways, at least one person apparently compared Shadow to Dark Pit, which is a huge mistake on their part: Dark Pit is literally a clone of Pit that has all of the same weapons, powers, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses as the original. Shadow was never a clone or anything of Sonic, he's just another hedgehog that happens to have a few similar abilities as Sonic, but has access to a variety of different powers and other things. Most notably, he has all of his Chaos Powers such as Spear, Control (for both slowing time and warping), and others seen in Sonic Battle including Nightmare, Burst, and Upper. Not to mention, he has the boosters in his shoes, meaning that kicking attacks can have an added flame effect, even if they're similar to Sonic's. He's called The Ultimate Lifeform instead of something like The Black Blur for a reason. I mean, sure, he can spin dash and use homing attacks, but doing exactly everything that Sonic does definitely seems wrong for him, personality and ability-wise. If anyone's a better echo of Sonic, it's Metal Sonic, who's literally a robotic copy of Sonic that's supposed to match everything that Sonic can do.

TLDR: Having Shadow as simply an echo would just be a complete disservice to him, when he's definitely capable to be unique and was never meant to be an exact copy of Sonic. If you want a completely unique character or a Luigi-esque semi-clone, then Shadow fits the bill. If you want an echo of Sonic, look no further than Metal Sonic, the Dark Pit to Sonic's Pit.

I agree completely, but honestly I'd just give it a rest. A lot of the people here will not sway when it comes to what they think of Shadow. In my opnion, just save your energy for something more productive.

I just find it odd that we COULD get a Sonic newcomer that isn't an Echo, but not Shadow. He could only get in as an Echo, because the game he was introduced in he was just supposed to be a dark Sonic (which roughly translates to "Screw all his other games, I played SA2 and Heroes!" (I recognize that I'm being kind of a **** here, but its totally true minus a select few of y'all.)).

But yeah, Tails is totally possible to get in as a newcomer. Shadow? Another Sonic character? Nah, guaranteed Echo, thats it. No way Tails and Shadow have the same exact chances, they both are very popular Sonic characters but ones a Hedgehog so the only thing Shadow could be is a clone!

I don't feel like I can stress how bad this argument is enough. If Tails has a chance to be included as a unique newcomer, then so do other Sonic characters. "Other Sonic characters" includes Shadow. Just because he could be a clone doesn't mean its his one and only shot.

I've already admitted that Shadow could be an echo of Sonic, but I still stand by the fact that he could also be a full-fledged newcomer (minus Spindash. Keep Spindash. The Side-B one not the down-b one. That one is booty). If *insert Sonic character here* has a chance to be a unique fighter, so does *insert equally popular Sonic character.*

Here I am saying we should give it a rest and then I go and type up a book in the same post. I need another hobby.

EDIT: Also, before anyone attempts to come in with the obligatory "Lmao just cause we haven't seen his AT doesn't mean he's a guarantee how silly of you to think hes a guarantee" post, I do NOT think Shadow is a guarantee nor do I really think he has much of a shot. His AT being absent so far is noteworthy but that is it.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Honestly between SMT and Persona I feel like we'd get a Persona character first. Persona is a wildly popular series, and similar to Cloud not appearing on a Nintendo console, I think we'd see Yu Narukami or Joker as they're both wildly popular and near iconic characters. I'd be more inclined to say Yu because Atlas can't seem to stop milking the poor cast of Persona 4.

I think we'd actually get an OG SMT character because they've been almost all on Ninty consoles except Nocturne.

I still think Cloud is a special exception to that rule that won't get changed for anyone else. (Also I'd rather not see P4 get in anything else, but that's some personal bias because P4 was my least favorite of all 5 Persona games).

 

[KMDP]

Persona dropped the SMT deal, since well they're pretty much very much their own things by this point.

Persona is the creation of a simple little game called SMT:IF which was a what if story for SMT1, that turned into its own subfranchise and then Persona grew from that.

SMT is much more grimdark, bitter & brutal.

Yeah, I knew that much. Thanks for the info, though; you had no way of knowing what I know.
Extrapolating on my idea: have 5 Personas like Shulk has five (technically six) forms: the basic Persona (e.g. Arsene) as the neutral, along with five elemental Personas (Fire, Wind, Ice, Electric and one other).

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Yeah, I knew that much. Thanks for the info, though; you had no way of knowing what I know.
Extrapolating on my idea: have 5 Personas like Shulk has five (technically six) forms: the basic Persona (e.g. Arsene) as the neutral, along with five elemental Personas (Fire, Wind, Ice, Electric and one other).

Yeah sorry I tend to go into nerd mode sometimes and, like "THIS IS WHY THIS IS THIS"

Persona changes working like Shulk monado isn't a bad idea though.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

TLDR: Having Shadow as simply an echo would just be a complete disservice to him, when he's definitely capable to be unique and was never meant to be an exact copy of Sonic. If you want a completely unique character or a Luigi-esque semi-clone, then Shadow fits the bill. If you want an echo of Sonic, look no further than Metal Sonic, the Dark Pit to Sonic's Pit.

This can be said about any of the existing clones; as I pointed out before clones aren't chosen because it's "what's best for the character" or "they lack unique moveset potential and that's all they can be", they're leftover characters who Sakurai didn't have on the initial roster as a full-fledged character for whatever reason, that could then be thrown onto the roster as a clone because the character can be cloned off an existing playable character and do what they do without technical issues occurring. To go back once more to the Ganondorf example, he was made a clone because he wasn't chosen for the initial roster in Melee, then when Sakurai was deciding to add some clones, Ganondorf was a popular request who happened to share the same body build with Captain Falcon of a tall lean muscular man, thus he could copy Ganondorf's model over Captain Falcon's skeleton and have him use Captain Falcon's moves without any mechanical issues.

When talking about clones, if your argument on why someone can't be a clone relies on something like "it's unfaithful!", "it's a disservice to the character!", "they can do so much more!", etc., you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Lucina supporters argued it, Dark Pit supporters argued it, Daisy supporters argued it, it's no different here. At the end of the day what matters is if Character X that isn't on the initial roster can mechanically be a clone of Playable Character Y, and when it comes to Shadow, there's absolutely nothing that mechanically prevents him from doing any of Sonic's moves in Smash. As such, as long as Sakurai desires it and Sega approves it, there's nothing stopping Shadow from being made a Sonic clone. And in the case he is a Sonic clone, it was either going to be that or nothing, as only characters who were passed over for the roster have the chance to be made into clones later on.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Just so you know I wasn't being serious with that statement...

I was though. God dammit Nintendo don't you be putting Toad back into the dark Gamecube ages with non player roles in the spinoffs again, he's only just got back into Mario Tennis for crissakes.
Sticking random barely known mooks no one knows in as playable and benching Toad and Toadette just irritates me. It's like if they forced Daisy and Waluigi to be NPC roles in spinoffs and included Plum and Clay in their stead.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I agree completely, but honestly I'd just give it a rest. A lot of the people here will not sway when it comes to what they think of Shadow. In my opnion, just save your energy for something more productive.

I just find it odd that we COULD get a Sonic newcomer that isn't an Echo, but not Shadow. He could only get in as an Echo, because the game he was introduced in he was just supposed to be a dark Sonic (which roughly translates to "Screw all his other games, I played SA2 and Heroes!" (I recognize that I'm being kind of a **** here, but its totally true minus a select few of y'all.)).

But yeah, Tails is totally possible to get in as a newcomer. Shadow? Another Sonic character? Nah, guaranteed Echo, thats it. No way Tails and Shadow have the same exact chances, they both are very popular Sonic characters but ones a Hedgehog so the only thing Shadow could be is a clone!

I don't feel like I can stress how bad this argument is enough. If Tails has a chance to be included as a unique newcomer, then so do other Sonic characters. "Other Sonic characters" includes Shadow. Just because he could be a clone doesn't mean its his one and only shot.

I've already admitted that Shadow could be an echo of Sonic, but I still stand by the fact that he could also be a full-fledged newcomer (minus Spindash. Keep Spindash. The Side-B one not the down-b one. That one is booty). If *insert Sonic character here* has a chance to be a unique fighter, so does *insert equally popular Sonic character.*

Here I am saying we should give it a rest and then I go and type up a book in the same post. I need another hobby.

EDIT: Also, before anyone attempts to come in with the obligatory "Lmao just cause we haven't seen his AT doesn't mean he's a guarantee how silly of you to think hes a guarantee" post, I do NOT think Shadow is a guarantee nor did I really think he has much of a shot. His AT being absent so far is noteworthy but that is it.

Hit the nail on the head here.

I think Shadow would work as either a unique character, semi clone or an Echo very well, it depends entirely on Sakurai & his team.

 

[Idon]

What about a Wildcard Persona (e.g. P3 protag, Yuu, Joker etc) as a mix between Shulk and Robin?
Have the Neutral Special operate as a Persona Change (using popular demons/personas like Jack Frost and their base ones), where the Persona they have equipped changes the element (damage, range, etc) of their moves?
Not too well versed in Shin Megami Tensei, all I know really is that Persona is the more popular half, especially after P5. (Really, though, they should still be openly calling it "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona", don't just discard half the franchise... c'mon, now.)

Well a Persona character would be cool, but I personally like SMT more, and that says a lot because I also really like Persona.

Also, the Persona characters abilities are far more individualized than the SMT protagonists who generally follow the trend of "Sword, Gun, Demon buddies" (excluding Demi-fiend who punches people in the face). Tatsuya doesn't represent Minato who doesn't represent Yu who doesn't represent Joker and so on. Each of them have signature personas with signature abilities and signature fighting styles and those are far more likely to be used than some generic demons. For example: Yu in Persona 4 Arena and his emphasis on Izanagi exclusively.

So if they're going to pick a Persona character, it'd just represent them and their own game whereas SMT1,2,4, 4A, and the future 5 will probably be relatively interchangeable model and ability-wise


And about the SMT name that got removed from the Persona titles this explains the situation pretty well, but basically:
1. SMT is a spinoff/continuation of Megami Tensei.
2. Persona too, is a spinoff of Megami Tensei.
3. Ergo, Persona is not a spinoff of SMT, but of MT, and doesn't really make sense to have the SMT title (as well as a significantly LARGE amount of games with that title)
4. Adding SMT to Persona and other spinoffs was a marketing ploy by the localization team to tie all these games together and cross-promote each other.
5. Once they realized that Persona is so damn huge, and that it really doesn't need it anymore, they axed the title from Persona 4 Golden onwards.

Also, "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4: Dancing All Night" is stupidly long.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah sorry I tend to go into nerd mode sometimes and, like "THIS IS WHY THIS IS THIS"

Happens to the best of us.

Persona changes working like Shulk monado isn't a bad idea though.

I'm imagining people spamming the Persona Change and repeatedly yelling "PERSONA!!" over and over. Would that be better or worse than "Hi!" and "You're too slow~!"?

Additionally, like Cloud, the Persona 3+ protags have technically appeared on Nintendo systems before.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I was though. God dammit Nintendo don't you be putting Toad back into the dark Gamecube ages with non player roles in the spinoffs again, he's only just got back into Mario Tennis for crissakes.
Sticking random barely known mooks no one knows in as playable and benching Toad and Toadette just irritates me. It's like if they forced Daisy and Waluigi to be NPC roles in spinoffs and included Plum and Clay in their stead.

For all we know, they could be secret characters, just like in Double Dash.

 

[SlickWylde]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Reggie has even addressed the "Waluigi Issue": https://www.usgamer.net/articles/sa...i-in-smash-bros-ultimate-reggie-fils-aime-say

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Also, "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax" is stupidly long.

Needs more.

Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax Hyper Turbo HD Remix Tournament Edition & Knuckles.

 

[Murlough]

This can be said about any of the existing clones, as I pointed out before clones aren't chosen because it's "what's best for the character" or "they lack unique moveset potential and that's all they can be", they're leftover characters who Sakurai didn't have on the initial roster as a full-fledged character for whatever reason, that could then be thrown onto the roster as a clone because the character can be cloned off an existing playable character and do what they do without technical issues occurring. To go back once more to the Ganondorf example, he was made a clone because he wasn't chosen for the initial roster in Melee, then when Sakurai was deciding to add some clones, Ganondorf was a popular request who happened to share the same body build with Captain Falcon of a tall lean muscular man, thus he could copy Ganondorf's model over Captain Falcon's skeleton and have him use Captain Falcon's moves without any technical issues.

When talking of clones, if your argument on why someone can't be a clone relies on something like "it's unfaithful!", "it's a disservice to the character!", "they can do so much more!", etc., you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Lucina supporters argued it, Dark Pit supporters argued it, Daisy supporters argued it, it's no different here. At the end of the day what matters is if Character X that isn't on the initial roster can mechanically be a clone of Character Y, and when it comes to Shadow, there's absolutely nothing that mechanically prevents him from doing any of Sonic's moves in Smash. As such, as long as Sakurai desires it and Sega approves it, there's nothing stopping Shadow from being made a Sonic clone. And in the case he is a Sonic clone, it was either going to be that or nothing, as only characters who were passed over for the roster have the chance to be made into clones later on.

I agree so long as people aren't claiming "It's Echo or bust!" There would be good reason to make Shadow a semi-clone or unique fighter. If Sakurai got the rights for him then why not go all out with it? Why go out of your way to obtain the rights to use the character and make them playable, just to copy paste another character onto them? I'd say its closer to semi-clone, newcomer, or bust.

Honestly, if I didn't see "Echo or bust" I probably wouldn't even have cared about Shadow in this thread.

Keep in mind I don't know jack about deals with Sega and Nintendo. I would assume getting a playable version wouldn't be too much more difficult then an AT but still. Why even go through the trouble for another Echo? You could still just use actual Nintendo characters for Echos and with no hassle.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Here's a hot take.

I think we won't get any more Mario newcomers, echoes or otherwise for the base roster.

What makes me say such a ridiculous claim?

Take a look at any Mario character's page on the official website.

Look at the part where it says other fighters from this series. It seems that the way they set this up is that each page can have a maximum of eight characters.

Now, of course this can change, there is room for more, but I doubt they would have set the website up this way if there were more Mario newcomers ready to be revealed.

Although I agree that we may not see any new Super Mario characters, it isn't because of the website alone.

Cross-reference the website set-up with 8-Player Smash. Right now, you can have the entire Super Mario cast in 8-Player Smash. The "Other Fighters From This Series" tab shows this well. Adding more would make that no-longer a thing.

It's a weak argument, admittedly, but I think 8-Player Smash could be a factor to consider. It's something to go by when we really don't have much. It's also another reason why I'm not expecting any more Fire Emblem fighters, expecting another Pokemon character, and why I think no character will have more than eight alts. The latter point is suggested by Little Mac only having eight alts in the demo, but as previously stated, there could be unfinished alts that we just haven't seen yet.

 

[KMDP]

Also, "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax" is stupidly long.

*side-eyes Kingdom Hearts*

Needs more.

Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax Hyper Turbo HD Remix Tournament Edition & Knuckles.

You forgot "featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series".

 

[Idon]

Needs more.

Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 Arena Ultimax Hyper Turbo HD Remix Tournament Edition & Knuckles.

How could you forget "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series"

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I agree so long as people aren't claiming "It's Echo or bust!" There would be good reason to make Shadow a semi-clone or unique fighter. If Sakurai got the rights for him then why not go all out with it? Why go out of your way to obtain the rights to use the character and make them playable, just to copy paste another character onto them? I'd say its closer to semi-clone, newcomer, or bust.

Honestly, if I didn't see "Echo or bust" I probably wouldn't even have cared about Shadow in this thread.

Keep in mind I don't know jack about deals with Sega and Nintendo. I would assume getting a playable version wouldn't be too much more difficult then an AT but still. Why even go through the trouble for another Echo? You could still just use actual Nintendo characters for Echos and with no hassle.

Yeah it's my mistake for saying Echo or Bust earlier ugh. I didn't realize how kinda dumb that sounded.

 

[Hinata]

While I'm advocating the most for Joker, any Persona protag would be fine in my book, considering I just really wanna see how Sakurai can make the Persona Change skill work.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

How could you forget "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series"

See I was gonna add that but then I was like "naaaaah too easy"

I should have in retrospect.

 

[Murlough]

Yeah it's my mistake for saying Echo or Bust earlier ugh. I didn't realize how kinda dumb that sounded.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't only you but I appreciate the apology!

 

[KMDP]

How could you forget "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series"

Great minds think alike.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I agree so long as people aren't claiming "It's Echo or bust!" There would be good reason to make Shadow a semi-clone or unique fighter. If Sakurai got the rights for him then why not go all out with it? Why go out of your way to obtain the rights to use the character and make them playable, just to copy paste another character onto them? I'd say its closer to semi-clone, newcomer, or bust.

Honestly, if I didn't see "Echo or bust" I probably wouldn't even have cared about Shadow in this thread.

Keep in mind I don't know jack about deals with Sega and Nintendo. I would assume getting a playable version wouldn't be too much more difficult then an AT but still. Why even go through the trouble for another Echo? You could still just use actual Nintendo characters for Echos and with no hassle.

Because if Sakurai decided to make Shadow a clone, it was because he already decided what the roster would be beforehand (where Shadow was passed over) and thus there wouldn't any developmental resources left to make a completely new character nor a semi-clone, so he would be getting the rights at that point because of Shadow's capability of being a clone.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't only you but I appreciate the apology!

Haha, i'm overdramatic.

Honestly as i've said before I like the roster we have and as a Sonic nerd Shadow would be icing on an already great cake for me.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Here's a hot take.

I think we won't get any more Mario newcomers, echoes or otherwise for the base roster.

What makes me say such a ridiculous claim?

Take a look at any Mario character's page on the official website.

Look at the part where it says other fighters from this series. It seems that the way they set this up is that each page can have a maximum of eight characters.

Now, of course this can change, there is room for more, but I doubt they would have set the website up this way if there were more Mario newcomers ready to be revealed.

What do you mean?

It's got room for one more character to make a perfect 3x3 grid. We all know how people love to speculate about adding characters to make rosters perfect quadrilaterals.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Reggie has even addressed the "Waluigi Issue": https://www.usgamer.net/articles/sa...i-in-smash-bros-ultimate-reggie-fils-aime-say

While I'm glad the outcry for Waluigi was heard, I'm sad that a lot of it probably had to do with the online harassment that Sakurai had to put up with. It's one thing to state an opposition to his exclusion, it's another to attack because of it.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

DaybreakHorizon What is the fake leak count at? And do you have them all listed somewhere?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What do you mean?
View attachment 150419
It's got room for one more character to ake a perfect 3x3 grid. We all know how people love to speculate about adding characters to make rosters perfect quadrilaterals.

I was not aware that the grid changed for mobile users.

 

[KMDP]

Because if Sakurai decided to make Shadow a clone, it was because he already decided what the roster would be beforehand (where Shadow was passed over) and thus there wouldn't any developmental resources left to make a completely new character nor a semi-clone, so he would be getting the rights at that point because of Shadow's capability of being a clone.

One thing people haven't considered, as far as I know...
What if, this game, due to the success of the previous game's DLC, there aren't any last minute clones? Daisy being the exception, of course; considering how early she was shown, they probably planned for her to be a clone from the start.
People are being way too trigger happy with the "Echo Fighter" distinction.

 

[Koopaul]

It's about personality. If you're not going to reflect a character's personality properly, there's no point in having them. That's why Dark Pit has his own clapping animation. That stuff IS important.

Hahaha! This is Smash! Smash is notorious for not properly reflecting a characters personality. And Shadow? They can still have him be an echo fighter of Sonic, but they can give him taunts and victory animations that properly showcase his edgy personality.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I am so sure we're getting a unique Mario newcomer that is either Captain Toad or Geno that I will eat a pair of my roommate's boxer shorts.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I was though. God dammit Nintendo don't you be putting Toad back into the dark Gamecube ages with non player roles in the spinoffs again, he's only just got back into Mario Tennis for crissakes.
Sticking random barely known mooks no one knows in as playable and benching Toad and Toadette just irritates me. It's like if they forced Daisy and Waluigi to be NPC roles in spinoffs and included Plum and Clay in their stead.

I'd be fine with Plum. Just saying. Embarrass

Great minds think alike.

Not to mention the Funky New Mode, gotta have that.