Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dracyoshi]

I'm listening to the Japanese crowd chants for Smash 4 and the quality is so much better. They don't sound like white noise, they sound like crowd chants from an actual stadium. Listen to Lucario's!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Given that my original post about this topic is 20 pages old and buried in a literal wall of text, I'm going to point out once again that 4 of the Legend of Zelda characters in the game have received massive visual and mechanical changes unmatched by any other franchise present so far. The other two are fulfilling the green quota.

This is doubtless because of the fact that Breath of the Wild has seen massive mainstream success. It stands to reason that to further promote the franchise as a whole, they're the most likely existing franchise to receive a new character. It also stands to reason, to tie into the current discussion, that it won't be a clone or echo since half of their number are clones already.

As someone who has very little experience with the series, I'm curious to see who you guys think will make an appearance, but this time, based on their chances of being a unique fighter.

Breath of the Wild's popularity doesn't matter at all, the game didn't release until March 2017, Smash was already in development for over a year at that point, and we wouldn't be getting a completely new character added mid-development just because a game sold a lot of copies. Zelda, Sheik, and Ganon got those visual changes probably just so they wouldn't have their drab Twilight Princess look for a third straight game, when they're from a series where the characters get significant visual changes in every installment.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As far as Sonic characters are concerned, I'd prefer Tails. Aerial abilities + his gadgets = one interesting fighter.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

As far as Sonic characters are concerned, I'd prefer Tails. Aerial abilities + his gadgets = one interesting fighter.

Plus he's the sidekick and second most noteworthy lead character after Sonic himself. It'd be like if you put in Wario first instead of Luigi.

 

[Enchess]

As far as Sonic characters are concerned, I'd prefer Tails. Aerial abilities + his gadgets = one interesting fighter.

I'd prefer Big the Cat, but only cuz I love joke characters.

Long live Pichu

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Plus he's the sidekick and second most noteworthy lead character after Sonic himself. It'd be like if you put in Wario first instead of Luigi.

It's true Tails is Sonic's sidekick but over time (and around Shadow's debut which is the era most Ninty fans will be familar with) he was less that and more the tech guy Sonic hung out with every now and again (and it wasn't till Rush, Colours and Sonic 4 episode 2 that they got a lot of their bro moments back).

Silly comparison maybe but I think fans (and Sonic fans in particular) want to see the Goku & Vegeta rather than the Goku & Krillin.

People seem to forget that SA2, Heroes, Shadow & 06 was a continous character arc for Shadow, disregarding for a moment the quality of the latter two. No other character in the franchise has something like that.

 

[SonicMario]

As far as Sonic characters are concerned, I'd prefer Tails. Aerial abilities + his gadgets = one interesting fighter.

Plus he's the sidekick and second most noteworthy lead character after Sonic himself. It'd be like if you put in Wario first instead of Luigi.

I agree with all this. I just think Shadow's just more likely with the existence of Echo Fighters. Though to be honest I won't be surprised if Sonic's alone again either. Which is fine, since really Sonic's already my dream inclusion. Tails really would only be one big cherry on top for me personally.

 

[Will]

As far as Sonic characters are concerned, I'd prefer Tails. Aerial abilities + his gadgets = one interesting fighter.

You already know.

 

[BrytonJ]

I'm not really a fan of the sonic games at all but I actually really would like to see another sonic character in the game. There's like 10 trillion characters in that franchise and they all have pretty unique designs and abilities from what I understand. Lots and lots of material to work with.

 

[Radical Bones]

Tails and Eggman are the only Sonic characters that I feel should be in Smash as a unique fighter.

If one of those two were in, I'd be okay with a Shadow Echo.

 

[MainJPW]

and I already noted the outlier projectiles with the Chaos Powers that are mostly optional and have to be bought.

Projectiles are an outlier? Like Chaos Spear? That's in his default move pool in 06. He uses Chaos Spear in approximately 8 games. In Battle, his whole moveset is comprised of Chaos Powers as well as Chronicles where he uses Chaos Spear and channels Blast into his hands and fires as a projectile. Chaos Burst is extremely similar to Chaos Blast and Blast was used in 5 games.

Chaos Powers are apart of his fighting style. I mean yeah, they're mostly optional in the platformers but they're clearly part of his character.

 

[Dracyoshi]

If we got a new Sonic rep then I'd want Eggman.
1. A design that's distinct from Sonic and the rest of the Hedgehogs
2. Eggman gives the series some much-needed villain representation
3. Tons of unique moveset potential

 

[Arcadenik]

Maybe Carrots. Carrots be in Super Mario Land 2, and Diasy from teh lands game.

Yes! That's a genius idea!

Peach's Vegetable = Turnip from Super Mario Bros. 2
Daisy's Vegetable = Carrot from Super Mario Land 2

Look at how similar they are!

Spoiler

Carrot makes too much sense to be Daisy's Vegetable! It would further cement Daisy as the Super Mario Land rep. I hope that happens.

I wonder if that's why they haven't shown Peach's nor Daisy's Vegetables. Maybe they want to keep it a surprise?

Maybe they will show Daisy's Vegetable on October 21 (26th anniversary of Super Mario Land 2 in Japan) or November 2 (same but in USA).

Maybe they will show Peach's Vegetable on October 9 (30th anniversary of Super Mario Bros. 2 in USA) or September 14 (26th anniversary of Super Mario USA in Japan).

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If we got a new Sonic rep then I'd want Eggman.
1. A design that's distinct from Sonic and the rest of the Hedgehogs
2. Eggman gives the series some much-needed villain representation
3. Tons of unique moveset potential

He'd be like Bowser Jr but actually good.

 

[MainJPW]

If we got a new Sonic rep then I'd want Eggman.
1. A design that's distinct from Sonic and the rest of the characters
2. Eggman gives the series some much-needed villain representation
3. Tons of unique moveset potential

I changed "hedgehogs" to "characters" due to Sonic characters in general sharing similar heights, abilities and body types. Eggman is a standout choice among the whole cast.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Projectiles are an outlier? Like Chaos Spear? That's in his default move pool in 06. He uses Chaos Spear in approximately 8 games. In Battle, his whole moveset is comprised of Chaos Powers as well as Chronicles where he uses Chaos Spear and channels Blast into his hands and fires as a projectile. Chaos Burst is extremely similar to Chaos Blast and Blast was used in 5 games.

Chaos Powers are apart of his fighting style. I mean yeah, they're mostly optional in the platformers but they're clearly part of his character.

Again, optional. They're part of his character, yet sans Boss battles, we rarely use nor see them in gameplay; 06 and Battle being exceptions whereas Shadow the Hedgehog is a... special case of its own

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I changed "hedgehogs" to "characters" due to Sonic characters in general sharing similar heights, abilities and body types. Eggman is a standout choice among the whole cast.

Big the Cat and Vector also have distinct body types.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If we get a new Sonic rep I'd want Shadow as an echo of Sonic.

Sega has so many other properties to pull from that I'd like to see over another Sonic character.

We could have a character from SMT or Persona, or Super Monkey Ball, or NiGHTs.

Heck, I'd rather have Hatsune Miku in Smash than another Sonic character. I guess I'd be okay with Tails, but I'd rather see a new series.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What's up with Meta Ridley? Every character has 8 costumes, and Little Mac even had his costumes cut down to 8. So where's Meta Ridley?

The eighth color is clearly the color of Meta Ridley, but you it's just a different color. Something similar, which is also strange, is that Popo & Nana do not switch places to indicate which one you are playing as.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If we get a new Sonic rep I'd want Shadow as an echo of Sonic.

Sega has so many other properties to pull from that I'd like to see over another Sonic character.

We could have a character from SMT or Persona, or Super Monkey Ball, or NiGHTs.

Heck, I'd rather have Hatsune Miku in Smash than another Sonic character. I guess I'd be okay with Tails, but I'd rather see a new series.

Flynn from SMT4 please Or the OG protagonist Kazuya even, along with Cerberus.

I'd be ok with Joker from P5 too. (I'm also a Sonic nerd that's a huge reason I'd want Shadow too).

Sakura Wars, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Valkyria Chronicles all say hi too.

 

[Enchess]

What's up with Meta Ridley? Every character has 8 costumes, and Little Mac even had his costumes cut down to 8. So where's Meta Ridley?

People think he's losing the last color for it. I hope not though. I like that color (although I'll always go SM boxart or Tourian). One of my biggest wishes pre-E3 was 16 colors/costumes for everyone. Seems less likely with how many characters we have though haha.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

People think he's losing the last color for it. I hope not though. I like that color (although I'll always go SM boxart or Tourian). One of my biggest wishes pre-E3 was 16 colors/costumes for everyone. Seems less likely with how many characters we have though haha.

Also there's only 7 Koopalings. The whole 8 costumes thing is part of why they're inclusion is so conveniently neat.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Meta Ridley is clearly going to be an echo fighter alongside Alph, and they will announce this after Waluigi is confirmed to be playable

 

[Idon]

If we get a new Sonic rep I'd want Shadow as an echo of Sonic.

Sega has so many other properties to pull from that I'd like to see over another Sonic character.

We could have a character from SMT or Persona, or Super Monkey Ball, or NiGHTs.

Heck, I'd rather have Hatsune Miku in Smash than another Sonic character. I guess I'd be okay with Tails, but I'd rather see a new series.

My thoughts exactly.

3rd Party franchises should only get 1 representative in a primarily Nintendo-focused fighter.
3rd Party companies like Sega have so many more franchises to draw from than just Sonic.
You can make the argument that Sonic's more popular, but Sonic's more popular than 80% of the Nintendo roster. After all, he is a gaming icon (and a walking meme at this point).

Smash is such a great way to represent and showcase varied and different franchise and I'd hate that effort to be put into an already recognizable franchise and a side-character of that franchise as well.

Just give me some SMT representation, please. I'd prefer Demi-fiend, but SMT1Hero/Kazuya would be wonderful and considering he shares the "gun, swordplay, and COMP demon summoning" with Aleph and Flynn, they could easily be alt costumes as well.

 

[Opossum]

They all want a piece of that androgynous action.
View attachment 150402


I want Xander Mobus to not only be an announcer, but to be the person who chants for fighters.

Thanks for reminding me they never continued this past chapter four. :/
"Jagen, conscript me a posse."

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Just give me some SMT representation, please. I'd prefer Demi-fiend, but SMT1Hero/Kazuya would be wonderful and considering he shares the "gun, swordplay, and COMP demon summoning" with Aleph and Flynn, they could easily be alt costumes as well.

With Kazuya what would you pick as his demons if he had them in some manner? Besides the obvious Pascal Cerberus (who's unique design should be used if they did).

 

[92MilesPrower]

Alright, I think it's time for me, the resident diehard Sonic fanboy, to put this argument about Shadow to rest.

If Shadow were merely just an echo, it'd be a huge disappointment to me and many others. Although Shadow has the capability to be entirely unique, many would be happy if he was a Luigi-esque semi-clone. Anyways, at least one person apparently compared Shadow to Dark Pit, which is a huge mistake on their part: Dark Pit is literally a clone of Pit that has all of the same weapons, powers, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses as the original. Shadow was never a clone or anything of Sonic, he's just another hedgehog that happens to have a few similar abilities as Sonic, but has access to a variety of different powers and other things. Most notably, he has all of his Chaos Powers such as Spear, Control (for both slowing time and warping), and others seen in Sonic Battle including Nightmare, Burst, and Upper. Not to mention, he has the boosters in his shoes, meaning that kicking attacks can have an added flame effect, even if they're similar to Sonic's. He's called The Ultimate Lifeform instead of something like The Black Blur for a reason. I mean, sure, he can spin dash and use homing attacks, but doing exactly everything that Sonic does definitely seems wrong for him, personality and ability-wise. If anyone's a better echo of Sonic, it's Metal Sonic, who's literally a robotic copy of Sonic that's supposed to match everything that Sonic can do.

TLDR: Having Shadow as simply an echo would just be a complete disservice to him, when he's definitely capable to be unique and was never meant to be an exact copy of Sonic. If you want a completely unique character or a Luigi-esque semi-clone, then Shadow fits the bill. If you want an echo of Sonic, look no further than Metal Sonic, the Dark Pit to Sonic's Pit.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I expect them to stick with just 8 colors for the most part. They already implied that Villager and Inkling would only have 8.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Alright, I think it's time for me, the resident diehard Sonic fanboy, to put this argument about Shadow to rest.

If Shadow were merely just an echo, it'd be a huge disappointment to me and many others. Although Shadow has the capability to be entirely unique, many would be happy if he was a Luigi-esque semi-clone. Anyways, at least one person apparently compared Shadow to Dark Pit, which is a huge mistake on their part: Dark Pit is literally a clone of Pit that has all of the same weapons, powers, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses as the original. Shadow was never a clone or anything of Sonic, he's just another hedgehog that happens to have a few similar abilities as Sonic, but has access to a variety of different powers and other things. Most notably, he has all of his Chaos Powers such as Spear, Control (for both slowing time and warping), and others seen in Sonic Battle including Nightmare, Burst, and Upper. Not to mention, he has the boosters in his shoes, meaning that kicking attacks can have an added flame effect, even if they're similar to Sonic's. He's called The Ultimate Lifeform instead of something like The Black Blur for a reason. I mean, sure, he can spin dash and use homing attacks, but doing exactly everything that Sonic does definitely seems wrong for him, personality and ability-wise. If anyone's a better echo of Sonic, it's Metal Sonic, who's literally a robotic copy of Sonic that's supposed to match everything that Sonic can do.

TLDR: Having Shadow as simply an echo would just be a complete disservice to him, when he's definitely capable to be unique and was never meant to be an exact copy of Sonic. If you want a completely unique character or a Luigi-esque semi-clone, then Shadow fits the bill. If you want an echo of Sonic, look no further than Metal Sonic, the Dark Pit to Sonic's Pit.

This didn't stop them from making Lucina into a clone of Marth when she and her father (the man whose style she adopted) has nothing to do with Marth.

I'm also a Sonic fanboy, but I disagree with your post. Your points are good but I don't think him being an Echo (i'd rather semi clone too but still) would be as much of a disservice as you're stating because he'd be in the game, and it's possibly his only shot of doing so.

 

[Polan]

i hope we get more costumes. losing fire mario would be criminal and dapper mario does not make up for it. also why is the greninja flair still ****ed?

 

[AlphaSSB]

What's up with Meta Ridley? Every character has 8 costumes, and Little Mac even had his costumes cut down to 8. So where's Meta Ridley?

The eighth color is clearly the color of Meta Ridley, but you it's just a different color. Something similar, which is also strange, is that Popo & Nana do not switch places to indicate which one you are playing as.

It doesn't surprise me that Little Mac's palette swap count went down to eight. Wario had twelve back in Brawl, but got lowered to eight in Smash 4. As for the Meta Ridley alt, there's a few possibilities.

The first being that some of the palette swaps we've seen are placeholders, and that they'll be replaced/updated in the final version of the game. So one-to-four of Ridley's palette swaps would become Meta Ridley, four of the Ice Climbers' alts have them swap positions, etc.

Another is that the Meta Ridley alt was in an unfinished state, and so they opted not to include it in the demo. Or if the Meta Ridley alt was planned to have multiple palette swaps, they might've not been finished yet, so they opted not to include Meta Ridley at all so people wouldn't fight over the one.

 

[YoshiandToad]

On the subject of accuracy of a character until recent; what Sakurai deems as "accurate" seems to vary from character to character.

Peach is the all loving, purest princess type who leads her kingdom with love and all that. Her Toad counter until Ultimate was the complete polar opposite of that personality "PEASANT TAKE DAMAGE FOR ME AS A MEATSHIELD" which doesn't sound accurate to me.

Ganondorf's accuracy has been questioned repeatably with some users claiming the punching mechanics is enough to keep him in character with many many others disagreeing that without more magical and sword attacks it doesn't feel like Ganondorf. Ultimate has a happy medium I think.

Luigi's some sort of absolute weirdo pre Ultimate with Smash 4 giving him the dumbest official art pose to date. He's awkward, not otherwordly. Negative Zone didn't really say anything about Luigi and honestly would have fit Waluigi far better.

Mario's gritty at all times and seems to be out for blood at times rather than the happy go lucky leaping "wahoo"ing fun plumber we all know and love.

I honestly think Sakurai's not as good at making characters accurate to their in game counterparts as he makes out. I suspect Ridley was only delayed due to personal reasons or weird animations possibly and nothing to do with "too big" or "out of character" to begin with since he's said similar about Villager too before changing his mind entirely by the next game.

At the end of the day Sakurai's as human as everyone else and is prone to his own weird biases and desires as much as the next person seeing potential in Wii Fit Trainer as a fighter but not say...Dillon for example.

I get depressed in direct proportion to how Yoshi gets treated by Nintendo...

And considering he has the worst Dice Block in Super Mario Party...

At least he's actually playable unlike Toad and Toadette. But woo lucky us we can play as Pom Pom instead...Great. Not even the Koopalings...

(although to be fair it's about time Goomba's got some playable roles in spinoffs since they're one of the most famous enemies in Mario alongside Koopa Troopas)

Silly comparison maybe but I think fans (and Sonic fans in particular) want to see the Goku & Vegeta rather than the Goku & Krillin.

To be honest I'm actually absolutely sick of the one sided "mirror rival" archetype that Sonic + Shadow and Goku + Vegeta embody. It's become really really cliche at this point when you know Sonic will always outclass Shadow in the end and Vegeta will always get left in the dust by Goku, etc. I'd genuinely far prefer the bros. relationship over the tired as all hell one sided rivalry battlefest that seems to be mandatory in all fiction of recent. Funnily enough both Tails and Krillin can actually offer some unique abilities outside the protagonists most generic stock abilities too.

 

[KMDP]

You already know.
View attachment 150408

"I'd love to destroy... the blue one you know~..."

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

How likely is it that K. Rool ends up being a DLC character?

I think he’ll make the base roster actually, but if not, I could see a 90-95% chance.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I expect them to stick with just 8 colors for the most part. They already implied that Villager and Inkling would only have 8. View attachment 150412

I like how he tried to pass the Villager skins as new info when they're the same skins from Smash 4, hahaha.

 

[Pyra]

At least he's actually playable unlike Toad and Toadette. But woo lucky us we can play as Pom Pom instead...Great. Not even the Koopalings...

(although to be fair it's about time Goomba's got some playable roles in spinoffs since they're one of the most famous enemies in Mario alongside Koopa Troopas)

I didn't even know who Pom Pom was until you said this.

That said, of course I'm only ever gonna play as Goomba or Waluigi. It's only natural.

 

[Opossum]

i hope we get more costumes. losing fire mario would be criminal and dapper mario does not make up for it. also why is the greninja flair still ****ed?

Just keep tagging Warchamp7 until the flair is fixed, as the site is on fire.

And if the ending of the Kalos League taught us anything, it's that Greninja loses to fire, type match ups be damned.

 

[AlphaSSB]

View attachment 150413

For Inkling, I'll either main the default boy Inkling, or the one on the right with the skull bandanna.

Still sad my most wanted alt didn't make it.

 

[Idon]

With Kazuya what would you pick as his demons if he had them in some manner? Besides the obvious Pascal Cerberus (who's unique design should be used if they did).

Oh, that'll be hard with so many good ones. Especially if you don't limit to demons that aren't just in SMT1.
Well for demons, they'd probably have to be:

1. Recognizable (80% of the demons are already pretty obscure)
2. The same size or smaller than the character (Surt is too Ridley)
3. Relatively non-religious (Sorry Lucifer)
4. Not explicitly kid-unfriendly (Mara's very existence is a bit of a joke)

So if I had to make a hypothetical prediction on what demons would be summoned, it'd be...
Jack Frost (duh)
Pixie (also duh)
Pyro Jack (less well-known but still relatively recognizable if you've ever played any of the games with demons)
Cu Chulainn (popular design within SMT, especially in Japan)
Alice (VERY popular design in Japan)
Pascal/Cerberus if they want to make the SMT rep Kazuya specifically.

There's probably more, but they're on a sliding scale of popularity/recognizability and also I have a ****ty memory.

 

[Zinith]

At least he's actually playable unlike Toad and Toadette. But woo lucky us we can play as Pom Pom instead...Great. Not even the Koopalings...

(although to be fair it's about time Goomba's got some playable roles in spinoffs since they're one of the most famous enemies in Mario alongside Koopa Troopas)

Just so you know I wasn't being serious with that statement...