Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

I remeber posting this around and like no one believing it, funny in hindsight.

I wonder what's going to be the next "Photoshopped Little Mac"?

Celica is just a photoshopped Zelda!
Sephiroth is just a photoshopped Lucina!
Ashkey is just a photoshopped Villager!

 

[SlickWylde]

I remeber posting this around and like no one believing it, funny in hindsight.

Most people on here thought it was real, IIRC. There were a few people who were adament that it was fake ("Shulk is Little Mac"), but I think many (if not most) of us believed it.

 

[Cosmic77]

It is stupid and fake, Bowser Jr. will never be playable in smash 4, deal with it.

Obviously. There's no way they'd put both Rosalina and Bowser Jr. in Smash before Waluigi.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Dark Pit is still Pit. Shadow is not Sonic.

And none of Pits attacks look jokey or silly or lighthearted. They fit both Pit and Dark Pit fairly well.

Shadow would look damn stupid doing half of Sonic's moves. Thats the issue I have with it at least. Dark Pit isn't really THAT fair of a comparison because his moves have no expression to begin with.

(And no I'm not saying Dark Pit is literally just Pit or that Dark Pit has no potential to be differentiated from Pit please don't hit me....Also I've done this argument to death and its clear my opinion is in the minority here....I just wanted to respond to this specific point.)

Knowing Sakurai's attention to detail for 3rd parties, I doubt Shadow wuld be a 1 for 1 echo of Sonic, but for all intents and purposes he could be. Would it look silly? Yes, but I don't think we'd lose too much sleep over it.

Sakurai has shown bias in regards to 3rd parties in terms of how they function in the past, might not have too much ground to stand on for this statement, but I want to hope that Shadow is a Semi Clone if he is in at all.

Most people on here thought it was real, IIRC. There were a few people who were adament that it was fake ("Shulk is Little Mac"), but I think many (if not most) of us believed it.

I should have been clearer I posted it around outside of Smashboards and it wasn't believed haha.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I said before that I feel if we are getting a new 3rd party character it will be from a 3rd party company they are already working with, and this quote from Sakurai makes me think this even more.

In the case of Smash Bros., we have to painstakingly go to each individual publisher to acquire their acknowledgement in order to have their characters appear in-game. If a character’s publisher requests something specific of us or puts limitations on our use, we have to acquiesce and do it right by them – no matter the cost. It’s pretty difficult to coordinate and adjust contracts; production is kind of an excruciating process! In fact, we only barely got permission for everybody that’s appearing in Ultimate!

The idea of Sakurai going out of his way to work with yet another 3rd party company to obtain a character seems ludicrous to me. I'm not even sure we will see a new playable 3rd party character.

 

[Murlough]

And they certainly won't have dark/serious characters use goofy looking moves, just so they can share animations with another character. View attachment 150379

Get out of here with your logic!

Welp there went my whole argument...rip.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

To all the points about Sonic's moves being goofy, I point to the post of Ganondorf's f-tilt that someone posted earlier.

Btw like I said I'm not saying he will be an echo etc, I just think it's fans making huge leaps to say Shadow 100% could not be an echo. If you told me Ganondorf would be a Captain Falcon clone in 2000 I wouldn't have believed you. Shadow being an echo of Sonic is way more believable.

(Edit: I also don't think any 3rd party will get an echo just because that's more licensing for what's supposed to be a simple add. Maybe Ms. Pac-Man because Bandai is working on the game, but that's a stretch).

Side thought, I saw some people mention semi-clones, does anyone think we will be receiving any? Aside from veterans we haven't had any since Brawl, echoes seem to be the way Sakurai is leaning for those "extra/dessert/whatever he said" characters.

 

[Cosmic77]

I said before that I feel if we are getting a new 3rd party character it will be from a 3rd party company they are already working with, and this quote from Sakurai makes me think this even more.

The idea of Sakurai going out of his way to work with yet another 3rd party company to obtain a character seems ludicrous to me. I'm not even sure we will see a new playable 3rd party character.

It's certainly not impossible now that E3 has come and gone. I'm not rooting for any particular third-party characters, so not getting anyone new would be okay with me.

Besides, we were pretty spoiled with Smash 4's DLC.

 

[KMDP]

I said before that I feel if we are getting a new 3rd party character it will be from a 3rd party company they are already working with, and this quote from Sakurai makes me think this even more.

The idea of Sakurai going out of his way to work with yet another 3rd party company to obtain a character seems ludicrous to me. I'm not even sure we will see a new playable 3rd party character.

I can see Sakurai going back to 3rd party companies that he's already worked with (since it's already happemed); so, Sega, Konami, Capcom, Bandai Namco and Square Enix. But yeah, a new 3rd party (e.g. Microsoft) might be too much extra hassle.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And they certainly won't have dark/serious characters use goofy looking moves, just so they can share animations with another character. View attachment 150379

Your comparisons are awful, dude. They really are. I know on Smashboards it's really popular to counter arguments with bad analogies that rely on the bare minimum effort of contrasting two random characters that are nothing alike, and then acting like you're really clever, but yours are the cringiest. Like, "Let me drag my finger across the roster and find someone who has an even slightly similar trait to the subject of hand."

Nothing about that move is goofy. You just happened to freeze it on a particular face and frame. So once again you're being totally dishonest, especially when nobody even mentioned Shadow being a dark character, just like with your awful Wendy/Ms. Pac-Man comparison.

Frankly, I'm really tired of your responses. I can forgive a poor argument and I can forgive sarcasm, but don't be BOTH. That seems to be all I ever get from you is really pitiful analogies masked in sarcasm. And that's not something I wanna read anymore.

Nothing gets my goat more than really awful arguments that think they are clever. That's the one thing that triggers me.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Spoiler

iirc this leak came out a couple months before release

I can't wait for another leak that one to show up at some point.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Oh I meant I didn't understand why people sold the boxes without the games, but now I know it's for people like you lol.

I've had friends who have done simialr things to you, doesn't mean I understand it lol, but I know it happens.

Because there is a market for it, as there are people who have just cartridge/disc and want to get the box to go with it without needing to rebuy the game in whole. It's especially prevalent with older cartridge games that came in fragile cardboard boxes, as most of them no longer have their boxes (how many kids you know didn't just trash the boxes instantly when they got those games?), especially few with the boxes in still good condition. As a note, expect the value of DS game boxes to go up soon, as GameStop has been intentionally throwing away the boxes to DS games they have on mass.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Get out of here with your logic!

Welp there went my whole argument...rip.

Nah I honestly enjoyed your argument, it's healthy and it helps me practice my counterpoints and I felt you do have some good points.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

KMDP : Given that, I could see him ask one or two new ones at most and save negotiations for when the DLC starts rolling. Otherwise, it's more likely than ever for the parties that are already collaborating to allow a second rep.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Your comparisons suck, dude. They really do. I know on Smashboards it's really popular to counter arguments with bad analogies that rely on the bare minimum effort of contrasting two random characters that are nothing alike, and then acting like you're really clever, but yours are the cringiest.

Nothing about this move is goofy. You just happened to freeze it on a particular face and frame. So once again you're being totally dishonest, just like with your awful Wendy/Ms. Pac-Man comparison. Frankly, I'm really tired of your responses. I can forgive a poor argument and I can forgive sarcasm, but don't be BOTH. That seems to be all I ever get from you is really pitiful analogies masked in sarcasm. And that's not something I wanna read anymore.

Nothing gets my goat more than really awful arguments that think they are clever.

Ok, here is the move how it normally looks. It still looks goofy as hell to me.

But hey, it's almost like this is all subjective and none of us really know what Sakurai thinks is fitting and not fitting.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Your comparisons suck, dude. They really do. I know on Smashboards it's really popular to counter arguments with bad analogies that rely on the bare minimum effort of contrasting two random characters that are nothing alike, and then acting like you're really clever, but yours are the cringiest.

Nothing about this move is goofy. You just happened to freeze it on a particular face and frame. So once again you're being totally dishonest, just like with your awful Wendy/Ms. Pac-Man comparison. Frankly, I'm really tired of your responses. I can forgive a poor argument and I can forgive sarcasm, but don't be BOTH. That seems to be all I ever get from you is really pitiful analogies masked in sarcasm. And that's not something I wanna read anymore.

Nothing gets my goat more than really awful arguments that think they are clever.

Sarcasm aside if you look at it as Captain Falcon's moveset made zero sense for Ganondorf and he still became a clone, you can look at how most of Sonic's moveset works for Shadow and say he could be come a clone, specifically an echo.

I'm not talking about whats canon or disservice. But Shadow is 100% capable of doing everything in Sonic's moveset except for one or two moves looking "goofy". So it's a possibility.

Either way no one has to worry about it, I doubt he'll even be playable (watch me be wrong come Dec 7th).

 

[Pakky]

I can see Sakurai going back to 3rd party companies that he's already worked with (since it's already happemed); so, Sega, Konami, Capcom, Bandai Namco and Square. But yeah, a new 3rd party (e.g. Microsoft) might be too much extra hassle.

Could see Ubisoft as well as he has already worked with them.

 

[KMDP]

And they certainly won't have dark/serious characters use goofy looking moves, just so they can share animations with another character. View attachment 150379

In addition to what TheLastJinjo said, this is false equivalency.

As the sole rights owners of Ganondorf, Nintendo has the final say in what Ganondorf does. If they want Ganondorf to fight like Captain Falcon, they are perfectly within their rights to make that decision as the owner of the character.

With Shadow and other third party characters, the rights owners are the Third Party; and they, therefore, have the final say in what that character does.

If Sakurai were to try to make Shadow an Echo of Sonic, with all the goofiness that entails, and Sega/Sonic Team say "No". Sakurai is SOL; they are the ones who call the shots with regards to what the character says and does.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sarcasm aside if you look at it as Captain Falcon's moveset made zero sense for Ganondorf and he still became a clone

You're wrong. Captain Falcon's moves are generic fighting moves. Punching and kicking. That make perfect sense for Ganondorf. The only thing Ganondorf did in Ocarina of Time was shoot magic from his hands.

Captain Falcon's moves were made up. If Captain Falcon wasn't in Super Smash Bros, and Ganondorf had his moves, nobody would be questioning it. There may be a few people that thought it was lackluster, but nobody would be claiming that it doesn't make sense.

 

[Murlough]

Nah I honestly enjoyed your argument, it's healthy and it helps me practice my counterpoints and I felt you do have some good points.

Thank you for that. I've started feeling like the obnoxious bad guy of the thread since I argue so much. It's nice to see there are at least a few who don't mind.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Either way no one has to worry about it, I doubt he'll even be playable (watch me be wrong come Dec 7th).

We'll lurk from the Ultimate Shadows meanwhile to see if our hopes pay off.

(Honestly i'm more than good with the roster we have, at this point me getting Shadow or Simon Belmont & Ryu Hayabusa would be icing).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think it's safe to say Simon is our last third party for the game. Perfect for an 8 Player Smash.

We'll probably see Rayman, Shantae, and/or Shovel Knight as Assist Trophies. I would just be happy to see them making an appearance in this game.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

In addition to what @TheLastJinj said, this is false equivalency.

As the sole rights owners of Ganondorf, Nintendo has the final say in what Ganondorf does. If they want Ganondorf to fight like Captain Falcon, they are perfectly within their rights to make that decision as the owner of the character.

With Shadow and other third party characters, the rights owners are the Third Party; and they, therefore, have the final say in what that character does.

If Sakurai were to try to make Shadow an Echo of Sonic, with all the goofiness that entails, and Sega/Sonic Team say "No". Sakurai is SOL, they are the ones who call the shots with regards to what the character says and does.

Obviously, if Sega says "no" to Shadow during certain moves like Sonic foward Smash then they won't do it. But we have no idea if they would say no, so we shouldn't act like they would for a fact say no.

 

[Cosmic77]

We've had a Shadow Echo Fighter debate every day this week.

At this point, I'm almost willing to go back to the "which Pokemon will get in Smash?" discussions just so we can stop talking about Echo Fighters in general.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Alright to change the topic from Shadow.

How would you all feel if we got more alt costumes for characters through dlc or in game coins?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

We've had a Shadow Echo Fighter debate every day this week.

At this point, I'm almost willing to go back to the "which Pokemon will get in Smash?" discussions just so we can stop talking about Echo Fighters in general.

Literally anyone or nothing at all.

That's it. Pokémon is a bit of a 50/50 for this iteration

Alright to change the topic from Shadow.

How would you all feel if we got more alt costumes for characters through dlc or in game coins?

This reminds me: I did not like the fact you could just buy trophies. I like the process of unlocking each one through gameplay that isn't just selecting a trophy in stock and pressing A.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Your comparisons are awful, dude. They really are. I know on Smashboards it's really popular to counter arguments with bad analogies that rely on the bare minimum effort of contrasting two random characters that are nothing alike, and then acting like you're really clever, but yours are the cringiest. Like, "Let me drag my finger across the roster and find someone who has an even slightly similar trait to the subject of hand."

Nothing about that move is goofy. You just happened to freeze it on a particular face and frame. So once again you're being totally dishonest, especially when nobody even mentioned Shadow being a dark character, just like with your awful Wendy/Ms. Pac-Man comparison.

Frankly, I'm really tired of your responses. I can forgive a poor argument and I can forgive sarcasm, but don't be BOTH. That seems to be all I ever get from you is really pitiful analogies masked in sarcasm. And that's not something I wanna read anymore.

Nothing gets my goat more than really awful arguments that think they are clever. That's the one thing that triggers me.

Alternatively, you could be less of a jerk in your response. Just saying. Have some civility.

You're wrong. Captain Falcon's moves are generic fighting moves. Punching and kicking. That make perfect sense for Ganondorf. The only thing Ganondorf did in Ocarina of Time was shoot magic from his hands.

Captain Falcon's moves were made up. If Captain Falcon wasn't in Super Smash Bros, and Ganondorf had his moves, nobody would be questioning it. There may be a few people that thought it was lackluster, but nobody would be claiming that it doesn't make sense.

Having an opinion doesn't make you wrong. It might make sense to you, and to others it seems extremely weird for his character. Just roll with the punches and stop shoving your opinion down everyone's throats with negativity.

That said, I tend to agree that Ganondorf looks a lil doofy with Captain Falcon's moves, but I've grown accustomed to it over the years. I'm just glad they're finally giving him his sword, haha.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I avoided this thread after E3 because I just wanted to enjoy it myself and I didn't want to see chilldren flooding the forum to complain about clones and echo fighters,

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

You're wrong. Captain Falcon's moves are generic fighting moves. Punching and kicking. That make perfect sense for Ganondorf. The only thing Ganondorf did in Ocarina of Time was shoot magic from his hands.

I'm not going to get into the Ganondorf debate because I've seen it beaten to death here, but if you can see the possibility of a wizard who had never previously punched in any form being made into a clone of a brawler, BUT can't see the possibility of two similarly shaped hedgehog who play near identical to each other in their games (specifically refrencing Sonic Adventure 2 because that's the one I'm most familiar with) than I no longer understand the context of this discussion.

Am I the only one who's at a loss of understanding here lol? Or is it just me and I should've seen Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon clone coming but should be surprised at Shadow being a Sonic clone?

 

[Enchess]

Alright to change the topic from Shadow.

How would you all feel if we got more alt costumes for characters through dlc or in game coins?

Probably unpopular opinion, but I'd feel irritated if I had to pay for alternate costumes. Unless they threw them in with DLC fighters. Like each DLC fighter comes with 1 new costume or color for each character. Otherwise it just sorta feels like they held it back from the main game. The fact that some characters lost colors/costumes in the E3 demo makes me worried.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Probably unpopular opinion, but I'd feel irritated if I had to pay for alternate costumes. Unless they threw them in with DLC fighters. Like each DLC fighter comes with 1 new costume or color for each character. Otherwise it just sorta feels like they held it back from the main game. The fact that some characters lost colors/costumes in the E3 demo makes me worried.

I think we'll have a full set of colors and the demo just didn't have them all.

I sometimes like costume DLC and in regards with Sakurai & DLC I don't think he'd do them unless the game was finished first because I seem to remember an interview of his that his view on DLC is that he much rather the content in it be stuff that was made after the games release.

 

[Hinata]

I avoided this thread after E3 because I just wanted to enjoy it myself and I didn't want to see chilldren flooding the forum to complain about clones and echo fighters,

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

I think it's pretty damn cool, especially because he has Link's rapid jab from Melee. I missed that move.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Alternatively, you could be less of a jerk in your response. Just saying. Have some civility.

I mean I suppose I could tip toe around your sensibilities, but I think my frustration is pretty justified when I'm being condescended to for the hundredth time by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Having an opinion doesn't make you wrong. It might make sense to you, and to others it seems extremely weird for his character. Just roll with the punches and stop shoving your opinion down everyone's throats with negativity.

I'm not shoving my opinion down anyone's throat. You can read whatever you want. And if you don't like it, you can ignore it. In fact, there's a button for that.

Not all opinions have to be positive. I'm not just going to shrug off condescension and sarcasm. But, I'm also not gonna tell people how they are allowed to respond to my arguments either.

Use the ignore button. You're not a moderator, so don't tell me what to do. Now let's actually talk about the topic at hand and stop moderating everyone's general attitude. That's what moderators are for.

 

[Dracyoshi]

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

If you asked me when I knew nothing about Ultimate, I'd say no! Waste of dev time to make a third Link.
But in addition to needing to bring him back since they've brought everyone else back, it makes sense because they're overhauling Link with BOTW abilities and Young Link can take some of his old abilities. People who don't like the new Link can pick up Young Link. It might be what I'll do, actually.

 

[KMDP]

Alternatively, you could be less of a jerk in your response. Just saying. Have some civility.


Having an opinion doesn't make you wrong. It might make sense to you, and to others it seems extremely weird for his character. Just roll with the punches and stop shoving your opinion down everyone's throats with negativity.

That said, I tend to agree that Ganondorf looks a lil doofy with Captain Falcon's moves, but I've grown accustomed to it over the years. I'm just glad they're finally giving him his sword, haha.

Melee was actually my first encounter with Ganondorf (outside of that one time a friend of mine brought Ocarina of Time to my house to show my sister and I the final sequences, which was about 15 minutes without context), so Falcondorf doesn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[Opossum]

I avoided this thread after E3 because I just wanted to enjoy it myself and I didn't want to see chilldren flooding the forum to complain about clones and echo fighters,

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

By choice? Weren't you threadbanned?

Alright to change the topic from Shadow.

How would you all feel if we got more alt costumes for characters through dlc or in game coins?

I'd love it.
Make Celica playable and have her Regain costume as an option.

 

[Zinith]

Okay, at work, settling down. What does Smashboards have in store for me tod--

's new Final Smash has been leaked:

Today's gonna be a great day!!!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I avoided this thread after E3 because I just wanted to enjoy it myself and I didn't want to see chilldren flooding the forum to complain about clones and echo fighters,

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

I like that Young Link is back, and with the differences Toon Link got when he first showed up (plus his floatiness and new Fsmash now) while Young Link keeps all of the Melee Link quirks, the 3 Links stand out decently from each other now I think.

Love seeing a Link having the rapid jab back too.

 

[Cosmic77]

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

His inclusion doesn't bother me now that Link got some changes, but it annoys me how people want to act like he's the same as a unique newcomer. "Young Link returned and that's still not enough for Zelda fans?! Jeez, these guys are impossible to please."

Happy that people who liked him got him back, but he's not quite all I'd like to see from the franchise.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I avoided this thread after E3 because I just wanted to enjoy it myself and I didn't want to see chilldren flooding the forum to complain about clones and echo fighters,

but how do people feel about Young Link coming back. I was never expecting it, but it's pretty cool. Actually kind of makes Toon Link look more interesting by contrast.

I like that this makes for a Triforce of Links. Also, good to see that milk taunt's quicker now.