Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

's new Final Smash has been leaked:

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Since this installment of Super Smash Bros is not going to have many newcomers and Daisy was added as an Echo Fighter, I think it's safe to say that Echo Fighters are going to take up a reasonable portion of the roster in order to boost the size. I'm thinking around 8 Original newcomers and 2-6 Echo Fighters.

So I'd like to speculate all the possibilities for potential Echo Fighters and to what extent they would be able to share animations and abilities.

Very Light Echo Fighters (Luigi Esque)

• Dark Samus - Probably the most unique one available, but seeing as her model is similar to Samus, she can easily perform a lot of the same animations. She has a lot of unique phazon abilities, but she's perfectly capable of performing all of Samus's specials. It's interesting to note that the Dark Samus colors are missing from Samus's pallet swaps.
• Dixie Kong - Dixie has a very similar model to Diddy, and shares abilities with him such as the gumball gun, but there are several of Diddy's animations that Dixie can't perform, so while she would share likely 3 of the 4 special moves, a lot of her originality would come from her non special attacks, similar to Lucas. Where as her Up Special and Final Smash would be entirely unique from Diddy.
  
  Given how different she'd be from Diddy, she wouldn't be super easy to make, so she might not be ideal choice when looking for characters that can be squeezed in.
• Rex - Most people would loathe the idea of Rex sharing moves with Shulk, but it's actually accurate. Rex's sword functions extremely similar to Shulk and he too has his own set of arts (Blade Arts) that alter his stats. He wouldn't qualify as an "Echo Fighter", but he'd probably be one of the more similar semi-clones. The limit of his uniqueness would likely be his size, Down Special, and the Blade Arts.
  
  Seeing as Rex is considered a shoe-in, this may lend credibility to semi-clones appearing, akin to Brawl.
• Shadow The Hedgehog - He may look similar to Sonic and share abilities such as the homing attack and spin dash, but because of his personality, most of his animations are incompatible with Sonic. It's worth noting that Knuckles has taken over the role of the Sonic assist trophy, but this may just because Knuckles is considered a better pick, and may not reflect any intention to make Shadow playable.

Pure Echo Fighters

• Dry Bowser - This character is extremely similar to Bowser, but he is known for being lighter than Bowser and having animations that reflect his undead characteristics. Dry Bowser is considered a popular Mario character and I'm sure there are a lot of people would love to see Dry Bowser go toe to toe with Ridley. My two cents on the possibility is that I REALLY want him in Smash, but it's likely there may be an eight character limit per series to compliment 8 Player Smash.
• Impa - Impa is a sheikah who taught Sheik everything she knows, but she is slightly taller and in her Ocarina of Time interpretation, she is more muscular. Sheik also got a new Final Smash to replace the bow of light.
• Ninten - Probably my #1 Character request, not counting King K. Rool. It would complete the Mother trio and Ninten has some notable differences. Using Hypnosis instead of PK Flash or EVE for his Final Smash. However, it's probably unlikely that any of the original 12 characters will receive Echo Fighters.
• Octoling - The rival of Inkling. They have been playable in several modes of Splatoon 2.

I generally agree with your points, but I need to point something out. Your reasoning for Shadow not working as an echo is his personality differs too much from Sonic for their animations to be shared. And yet we have Pit and Dark Pit. Almost literally the same example. Daisy has also shown us that echo fighters and have a little shift in characteristic of their animations.

Unless I misunderstood you, I think the fact that we have Pit and Dark Pit makes Shadow's personality a non issue.

 

[Deleted member]

's new Final Smash has been leaked:

I really don't get if this is supposed to be a prank or something, but if it is, the thumbnail gives it away.

 

[Will]

Thank God, I was almost going to freak out if I didn't get my HD Alfonzo model.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I remember first seeing Morf, I nearly died of laughter at how much of a botch job it was. This also reminds me of this infamous Shulk amiibo:
View attachment 150372
Let's not lose our heads now!

F

Also here's a new text leak. I'm going to start rating leaks to kill some of the monotony that comes with doing these.

Spoiler: Leaks

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/422163952/#422163952
I have some information about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch. First of all, some echo fighters that I know of are Shadow(Sonic The Hedgehog), and Isabelle(Animal Crossing). Brand new fighters include King K.Rool(Donkey Kong), Karate Joe(Rhythm Heaven), Bandana Dee(Kirby), Decidueye(Pokemon), Elma(Xenoblade), Golisopod(Pokemon), and Celica(Fire Emblem)
I'm hearing rumours of Simon Belmont and Banjo Kazooie being in, but I'm not certain
BTW I've also heard about Sora but I feel like if there's anything my source is wrong about, that's it

This one is so incredibly fake it's not funny. I don't even know if I should add this to the count. A leaker who's hearing rumors and who doesn't trust his own source? That's pathetic.

I'll let you guys decide if I should add this one to the count.

 

[Wambo]

It's looking like this is almost certainly the last Smash game before the series is rebooted (with a lesser roster).
Also looking like fan favorites are pretty likely this time.

Damn. With this information though, I'd be extremely surprised if characters like K.Rool and Geno don't make it in. If they're not in this one, seems like they never will be.

Also, with a team of over 100 people, there better be some good single-player modes. I mean, they could just throw me what they have now and I'd be happy, but I want to see one last grand mode like Subspace 2 where the characters all interact with each other again.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

's new Final Smash has been leaked:

I was joking about the Super Sentai Yoshi squad when I said it a few days ago. I didn't even realize this existed.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Thank God, I was almost going to freak out if I didn't get my HD Alfonzo model.

Well of course, how else were they going to put in Pyrosphere.

 

[onga999]

It's probably fake, but has anyone seen this yet? Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo02ldGqQYk

 

[Ashuree]

Well of course, how else were they going to put in Pyrosphere.

Dang that Alfonzo model is really good.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

How would you feel if they made Mega Charizard X an echo fighter, with the only difference being his down special being Rock Smash, and having a different Final Smash? Let's just assume those 2 changes aren't enough to not classify him as an echo fighter.

 

[KMDP]

I generally agree with your points, but I need to point something out. Your reasoning for Shadow not working as an echo is his personality differs too much from Sonic for their animations to be shared. And yet we have Pit and Dark Pit. Almost literally the same example. Daisy has also shown us that echo fighters and have a little shift in characteristic of their animations.

Unless I misunderstood you, I think the fact that we have Pit and Dark Pit makes Shadow's personality a non issue.

Thing about Pit-Dark Pit and Sonic-Shadow is that they aren't really the same thing.

Dark Pit is a copy of Pit, and is, narratively, just Pit without the connection to Palutena; able to act on the vices that Pit never would. They are literally the same guy with same capabilities (and, possibly, the same tastes).
Shadow, on the other hand, is a completely different character with different capabilities. Yes, they share powers, but it's more of a Venn Diagram, Sonic has unique powers that Shadow doesn't, and vice versa.

EDIT: In Jungian (Persona) terms, Dark Pit is Pit's Shadow (lol).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

People mentioned the news yesterdays about not all stages appearing in Smash. So here's my two cents.

Combined stages:

• PictoChat & PictoChat 2 to create PictoChat.
• Flat Zone 1&2 (X) to create Flat Zone
• Battlefield Brawl-Wii U in favor of current Battlefeild

Third Party Stages (There may only be one for each universe, and Pac-Maze required multiple screens, so we're probably not going to see:

• Windy Hill Zone
• Pac-Maze

Incompatible stages

• Miiverse
• Pac-Maze, as I noted earlier

Also, sort of on topic, here are some stages you probably won't see sequels to and will likely serve as the sole stage representative of the series

• Flat Zone X
• Boxing Ring
• Wii Fit Studio
• Duck Hunt
• Third Party Stages

 

[_Sheik]

How would you feel if they made Mega Charizard X an echo fighter, with the only difference being his down special being Rock Smash, and having a different Final Smash? Let's just assume those 2 changes aren't enough to not classify him as an echo fighter.

Wouldn't you have to make echoes for Squirtle and Ivysaur too?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Thing about Pit-Dark Pit and Sonic-Shadow is that they aren't really the same thing.

Dark Pit is a copy of Pit, and is, narratively, just Pit without the connection to Palutena; able to act on the vices that Pit never would. They are literally the same guy with same capabilities (and, possibly, the same tastes).
Shadow, on the other hand, is a completely different character with different capabilities. Yes, they share powers, but it's more of a Venn Diagram, Sonic has unique powers that Shadow doesn't, and vice versa.

Also, part of why Dark Pit can perform all of Pit's animations is that they both weild the same weapon.

Sonic's Side Smash and Up Throw are examples of moves that are too goofy for Shadow. There's also his idle animation, walking animation, running animation, ducking animation, etc.

The lack of Chaos Control is also a completely valid reason why being a pure echo fighter would be insufficient for Shadow.

 

[Polan]

It's probably fake, but has anyone seen this yet? Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo02ldGqQYk

>alph
fake af. also can leakers (and the fanbase as a whole) please stop with this "SaKURai iS TrOLliNG Us" schtick? he likes to mess with people, but this idea that everything he does is a fakeout is getting tiring (not to mention its making the already bad waluigi drama even worse.)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah, anytime a character confirmed to not be playable shows up in a leak. It's fake af folks.

 

[Deleted member]

How would you feel if they made Mega Charizard X an echo fighter, with the only difference being his down special being Rock Smash, and having a different Final Smash? Let's just assume those 2 changes aren't enough to not classify him as an echo fighter.

I'd be pissed because they'd be giving him special attention yet again.
I like Charizard and all but come on, there are other Pokemon out there.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Thing about Pit-Dark Pit and Sonic-Shadow is that they aren't really the same thing.

Dark Pit is a copy of Pit, and is, narratively, just Pit without the connection to Palutena; able to act on the vices that Pit never would. They are literally the same guy with same capabilities (and, possibly, the same tastes).
Shadow, on the other hand, is a completely different character with different capabilities. Yes, they share powers, but it's more of a Venn Diagram, Sonic has unique powers that Shadow doesn't, and vice versa.

EDIT: In Jungian (Persona) terms, Dark Pit is Pit's Shadow (lol).

I wasn't reffering to his point on powers though but his point on personality. I know nothing of the Kid Icarus series however I was able to completely understand Dark Pit's unique personality in Smash. The same could be done for Shadow.

As for anything to do with Chaos Control, that could be his final smash as final smashes are different. I personally don't think he's likely in any shape or form, but I don't see how people make the leap and bounds that his character would be as hard to imagine as an echo as characters like Dixie Kong.

Also sorry for the late response, the site's lag is making posting near impossible lol.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I wasn't reffering to his point on powers though but his point on personality. I know nothing of the Kid Icarus series however I was able to completely understand Dark Pit's unique personality in Smash. The same could be done for Shadow.

As for anything to do with Chaos Control, that could be his final smash as final smashes are different. I personally don't think he's likely in any shape or form, but I don't see how people make the leap and bounds that his character would be as hard to imagine as an echo as characters like Dixie Kong.

They could also make his dodges little teleports ala Mewtwo.

Although as much as I want Shadow in even as an Echo I can also hope for Semi Clone too haha.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

My current stance on leaks is this: there are no leaks. Sakurai and co. have managed to hide the initial reveals so well that it's impossible to assume they let anything slip through for further unlockables, so any "leaks" need to be taken with an entire salt crystal, not a grain.

 

[KMDP]

Also, part of why Dark Pit can perform all of Pit's animations is that they both weild the same weapon.

Sonic's Side Smash and Up Throw are examples of moves that are too goofy for Shadow. There's also his idle animation, walking animation, running animation, ducking animation, etc.

The lack of Chaos Control is also a completely valid reason why being a pure echo fighter would be insufficient for Shadow.

An example I was going to cite was Sonic's Sonic Boost.
In order to go maximum speed, I would presume that Sonic uses his innate Aerokinesis to reduce drag and wind resistence, allowing him to move faster (the funnel that appears ahead of him). Meanwhile, Shadow uses Chaos Control to achieve higher speeds.
Different means, Same end.

in the final battle between Sonic and Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2's Hero/Dark stories, Sonic uses a technique called "Sonic Wind" to summon localised tornadoes to attack. Meanwhile, Shadow uses "Chaos Spear" to attack with... well energy spears, which in the mechanics of the boss fight achieve the same result as "Sonic Wind", attacking a localised area.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sonic's Side Smash and Up Throw are examples of moves that are too goofy for Shadow.

And they certainly won't have dark/serious characters use goofy looking moves, just so they can share animations with another character.

 

[Pakky]

Well that's cool and topical.

 

[Arcadenik]

F

Also here's a new text leak. I'm going to start rating leaks to kill some of the monotony that comes with doing these.

I'll let you guys decide if I should add this one to the count.

Uhhh… Golisopod? Well, at least Decidueye is there.

Both Simon Belmont and Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Ultimate? Yes please!

King K. Rool. Yes! But where's Dixie Kong? Well, at least she isn't an Echo Fighter. She deserves better.

I'd be pissed because they'd be giving him special attention yet again.
I like Charizard and all but come on, there are other Pokemon out there.

I know right?

 

[Zeox]

Well that's cool and topical.

Bomberman confirmed playable in Sma... oh wait...

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm not completely against the idea of Shadow being an Echo, but I think there's plenty of more fitting options to make a clone character out of. I'd actually prefer he not get added at all just so he won't be a permanent clone like Lucina and DP.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well that's cool and topical.

>Contra Bomber
Somehow, I can't help but feel that series deserves better than this.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

>Contra Bomber
Somehow, I can't help but feel that series deserves better than this.

They should just give it to Arcsys, who did a pretty good Contra game known as Hard Corps Uprising.

That is if Konami is never gonna use it again (and it's Konami so they're not).

 

[Koopaul]

The only time leaks end up being true is when they are just a day or two from E3 or the release of the game.

 

[KMDP]

I wasn't reffering to his point on powers though but his point on personality. I know nothing of the Kid Icarus series however I was able to completely understand Dark Pit's unique personality in Smash. The same could be done for Shadow.

As for anything to do with Chaos Control, that could be his final smash as final smashes are different. I personally don't think he's likely in any shape or form, but I don't see how people make the leap and bounds that his character would be as hard to imagine as an echo as characters like Dixie Kong.

Also sorry for the late response, the site's lag is making posting near impossible lol.

No worries, the lag is effecting us all.
I'd say that Shadow's Up+B should be Chaos Control, a warp like Zelda/Sheik/Mewtwo/Palutena, etc. It just makes all the sense in the world to me.
Sonic's forward smash is something Shadow wouldn't do; yes, Shadow can be a huge dork (saying things like "I'm the coolest!" with a straight face and his general angsty teen shtick), but Sonic's F-Smash is goofy, and represents his carefree personality well; Shadow at least tries to act cool. Sonic's Up-throw is also an issue (but not as much of an issue as Tails doing it), since Shadow's spines are a different shape.

 

[Delzethin]

>alph
fake af. also can leakers (and the fanbase as a whole) please stop with this "SaKURai iS TrOLliNG Us" schtick? he likes to mess with people, but this idea that everything he does is a fakeout is getting tiring (not to mention its making the already bad waluigi drama even worse.)

The whole "Sakurai is a troll" thing came about after a Smash Direct in April 2014 briefly claimed Zero Suit Samus wasn't going to be in the game, only to reveal that she was afterward.

Thing is, those two events happened one after the other. The trick was revealed within about five seconds. Yet now any time a character with a dedicated support base gets deconfirmed, there're always a few holdouts who insist it must be a months-long ruse because...reasons, I guess.

It's another case where the fans jump to conclusions and don't think to question them. Like with expecting newcomer reveals to coincide with anniversaries.

Or assuming newer characters are inherently less important than older ones they're already familiar with.

Or acting like characters are chosen based on their identity or what they "represent", assuming movesets are slapped together after newcomers are decided despite proof of the contrary.

Or expecting popularity to be the deciding factor for the former every damn time.

Or...

 

[Deleted member]

I have some information about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch. First of all, some echo fighters that I know of are Shadow(Sonic The Hedgehog), and Isabelle(Animal Crossing). Brand new fighters include King K.Rool(Donkey Kong), Karate Joe(Rhythm Heaven), Bandana Dee(Kirby), Decidueye(Pokemon), Elma(Xenoblade), Golisopod(Pokemon), and Celica(Fire Emblem)
I'm hearing rumours of Simon Belmont and Banjo Kazooie being in, but I'm not certain
BTW I've also heard about Sora but I feel like if there's anything my source is wrong about, that's it[/SPOILER]

This is definitely fake, but...
>My Gen 7 bois Decidueye AND Golisopod
I WANT TO BELIEVE
(that said, I don't believe a single leak. this one is most definitely no exception )

 

[CJ Falcon]

The only time leaks end up being true is when they are just a day or two from E3 or the release of the game.

Spoiler

iirc this leak came out a couple months before release

 

[StormC]

Spoiler

iirc this leak came out a couple months before release

Like the first week of August, a month before the Japanese release.

(Love the Nozawa icon, she is the Beast From The East.)

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Spoiler

iirc this leak came out a couple months before release

I remeber posting this around and like no one believing it, funny in hindsight.

 

[Zeox]

I remeber posting this around and like no one believing it, funny in hindsight.

It is stupid and fake, Bowser Jr. will never be playable in smash 4, deal with it.

 

[StormC]

It is stupid and fake, Bowser Jr. will never be playable in smash 4, deal with it.

#photoshopgate

 

[Murlough]

I generally agree with your points, but I need to point something out. Your reasoning for Shadow not working as an echo is his personality differs too much from Sonic for their animations to be shared. And yet we have Pit and Dark Pit. Almost literally the same example. Daisy has also shown us that echo fighters and have a little shift in characteristic of their animations.

Unless I misunderstood you, I think the fact that we have Pit and Dark Pit makes Shadow's personality a non issue.

Dark Pit is still Pit. Shadow is not Sonic.

And none of Pits attacks look jokey or silly or lighthearted. They fit both Pit and Dark Pit fairly well.

Shadow would look damn stupid doing half of Sonic's moves. Thats the issue I have with it at least. Dark Pit isn't really THAT fair of a comparison because his moves have no expression to begin with.

(And no I'm not saying Dark Pit is literally just Pit or that Dark Pit has no potential to be differentiated from Pit please don't hit me....Also I've done this argument to death and its clear my opinion is in the minority here....I just wanted to respond to this specific point.)

EDIT: Nevermind I got Greninja'd like an hour ago.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That reminds me, I think someone tried to compare Shulk and Little Mac's render faces again and they matched yet again