Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Murlough]

I thought the roster was finalised in December 2015 or whatever

Possibly but it isn't 100% confirmed. The initial proposal was late 2015 but that doesn't 100% mean the roster was completely decided, despite what Sakurai has stated about past games.

He at the very least knew he wanted all the veterans back.

 

[RandomAce]

Nice! The Japanese blog posted a "Today's memory" for it as well, much like with Bomberman and some of the fighters:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Fun Fact:
Sukapon was first planned to be an item in Melee, but Sakurai wasn’t able to incorporate him because of licensing issues.

Although he isn’t an item this time, it shows that Sakurai is reconsidering and looking back at some of the things he wasn’t able to implement or things he planned in previous titles.

 

[RandomAce]

I'm buying physical. Feels so much better to hold those sweet Nintendo Switch cartridges in your hands.



Thanks for reminding me of another reason why I want a Pokemon from Gen VII.

Seriously, there's something morally wrong with Corrin still being the newest character on the base roster.

Spring Man and Rex and Pyra can do the job as well (but maybe as DLC), and maybe Elma since her game was released later after the Japanese release of Fates. (I think)

So Gen VII Mon, Spring Man, Rex/Pyra, and Elma, 4 fighters more recent than Corrin.

 

[Pakky]

Question, why does the Switch not come with any games. I find that kind of stupid

Do any consoles come with games?

Also I guess you can buy a bundle then you'd have a game with your Switch.

 

[KMDP]

Fun Fact:
Sukapon was first planned to be an item in Melee, but Sakurai wasn’t able to incorporate him because of licensing issues.

Although he isn’t an item this time, it shows that Sakurai is reconsidering and looking back at some of the things he wasn’t able to implement or things he planned in previous titles.

*gasp*
May we finally get Ditto as a Pokéball mon!?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

*gasp*
May we finally get Ditto as a Pokéball mon!?

Ditto is the only one who can stop the tyranny of Bayonetta

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

The second part of Sakurai's Famitsu column was translated!

https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-development-of-smash-bros-ultimate-future-and-more/

Highlights:

-Probably the last Smash for a long time.
-Probably the only Smash moving forward where everyone will return.
-100s of people working on the game between Sakurai's team and Namco Bandai.

Sakurai works himself way too hard. He deserves a LONG break after this one.

 

[Will]

Since Dr. Mario had his D-Air changed to that whole stomp, here's a proposition: give him Mario's SSB64 F-Air

No reason why it just looks sick as hell.

 

[Enchess]

Some people have brought this up but we haven't really dived into what it means.

My first thought is has Sakurai ever used the term Project Proposal when speaking about the project plan? I wonder how closely tied and similar they would be.

Secondly...I feel like the proposal would be more than Smash on Switch. It would definitely include the theme and return of all veterans, he basically confirms that in the article. I wonder if it would include big character additions (Ridley) or possible place holder character additions (Pokemon, Xenoblade etc.).

Finally, he does talk about beginning development shortly after dlc...which probably means early 2016 which is still way earlier than some predicted (summer 2016-fall 2016) and thus is still a game changer for predictions.

But yea I feel people should talk about this more if we are going to cite it as "evidence" for speculation.

Well, let's think about this a little. The purpose of a project proposal is most likely to present to higher ups seeking approval to move forward. A crucial aspect of this would likely be budget. I believe the majority of the budget would go to man hours. Therefore, for a proposal to be useful for its intended purpose it must give a good indication of the amount of assets that must be developed by art team, the number of characters that must be animated by the animation team, and the amount of effort likely to be required by the programming team. In addition, it would likely need to have some projection of the number of 3rd party licenses that would need to be acquired.

I think based on all that, it's safe to assume that Sakurai at minimum presented the idea of all characters returning, a narrow range of the number of newcomers (I'd say +-3), specifics on any planned third party inclusions desired, planned modes, and a range of the number of stages and items to be included (looser than newcomer range because less effort).

So yeah, I think it's a fairly safe bet that the roster was at least narrowed to a small range in the proposal. If anything, it's more likely that we lost characters and stages since the proposal was made because games run into development issues and rarely include everything they originally planned. It's a lot rarer for a developer to end up way ahead of schedule and below budget and have the wiggle room to add extra.

TL;DR - Even if it was a proposal and not the project plan, I still think 2015 locked roster is a fairly safe way to approach speculation. Proposals are there to help estimate resource allocation and the roster heavily drives the required resources.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

The second part of Sakurai's Famitsu column was translated!

https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-development-of-smash-bros-ultimate-future-and-more/

Highlights:

-Probably the last Smash for a long time.
-Probably the only Smash moving forward where everyone will return.
-100s of people working on the game between Sakurai's team and Namco Bandai.

Sakurai works himself way too hard. He deserves a LONG break after this one.

The way Sakurai talks about this game, hundreds of people, same team with experience, not wasting time on rebuilding, and the fact that it will have almost a 3 year development period...it really makes me think there's going to be a lot in this game...I just don't know what.

Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers and I'm going to go with that for now. So what instead could they have spent all this extra develoemt on? Just polish alone? I'm so excited to find out!

 

[92MilesPrower]

Tomorrow's preview, coming late because the site is having issues on my end for no clear reason:

???: No need to contact anyone else when you have me to tell you everything you need to know about, well, me.

Next up:

 

[WaddleMatt]

because the site is having issues on my end for no clear reason:

What kind? I'm also having some.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Fun Fact:
Sukapon was first planned to be an item in Melee, but Sakurai wasn’t able to incorporate him because of licensing issues.

Although he isn’t an item this time, it shows that Sakurai is reconsidering and looking back at some of the things he wasn’t able to implement or things he planned in previous titles.

You know what this means?

James Bond for Smash! (I kid)

 

[92MilesPrower]

What kind? I'm also having some.

Issues completely disappeared like 5 minutes ago out of nowhere but I got a couple of Bad Gateway 502s, very slow loading, and weird and glitchy pages. It's all good now, thankfully.

 

[Will]

Tomorrow's preview, coming late because the site is having issues on my end for no clear reason:

What kind? I'm also having some.

That's just a Smashboards feature. Periodic site lag, free of charge!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Issues completely disappeared like 5 minutes ago out of nowhere but I got a couple of Bad Gateway 502s, very slow loading, and weird and glitchy pages. It's all good now, thankfully.

Yeah I was getting this myself, I had a new theme to use too because I saw a really cool picture on my twitter feed and I was like "aaaaah"

But then Smashboards was like NOPE for a few minutes.

 

[Jexulus]

Just gonna drop this out-of-context quote in right quick that in no way misrepresents what he's actually trying to say /sarcasm:

Even if a game is just a port, there’s an incredible amount of work that goes into making it happen.

kbye!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Tomorrow's preview, coming late because the site is having issues on my end for no clear reason:

???: No need to contact anyone else when you have me to tell you everything you need to know about, well, me.

Next up:

So I'm not the only one? Thought my net was going mad.

Anyone else having loading problems?

 

[Pakky]

Wow, he's looking clean

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Heads up, I think you may see the following characters become assist trophies:

• Rayman
• Rabbids
• Shovel Knight
• Shantae
• Yooka & Laylee
• Commander Video
• Sash Lilac
• Wonder Red
• Arle Nadja & Carbuncle
• Geno

If you're wondering why I say this, a lot of people claim that some of these characters, like Rayman, are going to be playable because the company or series has relationship with Nintendo. I don't think a lot of people consider how exclusive Super Smash Brother is and how few newcomers are going to appear this time. Because of this, a lot of characters that are considered "deserving" will some times settle for smaller roles in favor of characters that are unarguably much bigger icons, for example how Rayman was a trophy in Smash for Wii U or Bomberman currently being an Assist Trophy right now.

These characters are indeed popular, but they are no Sonic The Hedgehog or Simon Belmont, so please be prepared for the strong possibility that this may be the role they serve.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Just gonna drop this out-of-context quote in right quick that in no way misrepresents what he's actually trying to say /sarcasm:

kbye!

Oh my gosh I saw that quote and was like whelp can't wait to see this get cited on every thread/post about why Smash Ultimate is a dissapointing port.

Honestly after seeing the game I could care less whether it qualifies as a port or not. I was very anti port prior to E3 because it had connotations of like just adding Inklings and combining Wii u/3DS features. Now that I know it's much more than that who honestly cares? Does is it really matter if we call it a port or not?

Wow, he's looking clean

AHHH Need. I was shocked to find out it isn't up for preorder yet when I went to preorder Ultimate. Maybe they're gunna wait until all the newcomers are announced and release them all in 1 wave? If we're only expecting around 10 newcomers that wouldn't be crazy since the first amiibo wave was 12.

 

[Will]

I never really picked up on amiibo collecting. Now with this Smash game and the amiibos not matching the portraits anymore it just kinda bums me out of buying them. I mean, I got Luigi, but that was just cause.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Wow, he's looking clean

Hopefully it looks close to that for retail release.

 

[Hinata]

So I'm not the only one? Thought my net was going mad.

Anyone else having loading problems?

I've been having problems all day. I tried to ask about them too, but the site was runnin' so slow, my messages wouldn't even get through.

 

[Pakky]

Heads up, I think you may see the following characters become assist trophies:

• Rayman or Rabbids
• Shovel Knight
• Shantae
• Yooka & Laylee
• Commander Video
• Sash Lilac
• Wonder Red

If you're wondering why I say this, a lot of people claim that some of these characters, like Rayman, are going to be playable because the company or series has relationship with Nintendo. I don't think a lot of people consider how exclusive Super Smash Brother is and how few newcomers are going to appear this time. Because of this, a lot of characters that are considered "deserving" will some times settle for smaller roles in favor of characters that are unarguably much bigger icons, for example how Rayman was a trophy in Smash for Wii U or Bomberman currently being an Assist Trophy right now.

These characters are indeed popular, but they are no Sonic The Hedgehog or Simon Belmont, so please be prepared for the strong possibility that this may be the role they serve.

• Yooka & Laylee

Who?

 

[StrangeMann]

The second part of Sakurai's Famitsu column was translated!

https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-development-of-smash-bros-ultimate-future-and-more/

Highlights:

-Probably the last Smash for a long time.
-Probably the only Smash moving forward where everyone will return.
-100s of people working on the game between Sakurai's team and Namco Bandai.

Sakurai works himself way too hard. He deserves a LONG break after this one.

It's looking like this is almost certainly the last Smash game before the series is rebooted (with a lesser roster).
Also looking like fan favorites are pretty likely this time.

 

[92MilesPrower]

• Yooka & Laylee

Who?

I'm surprised to see someone who isn't familiar with them. They're the titular stars of their game, Yooka-Laylee, which was made by Playtonic, a studio made of ex Rare developers that made the Banjo-Kazooie games. The game was crowdfunded on Kickstarter, and it was a very successful campaign, but the final game was met with mixed reception.

 

[Pakky]

I'm surprised to see someone who isn't familiar with them. They're the titular stars of their game which was made by Playtonic, a studio made of ex Rare developers that made the Banjo-Kazooie games. The game was crowdfunded on Kickstarter, and it was a very successful campaign, but the final game was met with mixed reception.

I was being factitious, sorry but thank you :3

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Wow, he's looking clean

Lets just hope this isn't the whole "looks awesome here" but not so much when you actually get one.

 

[Hinata]

Lets just hope this isn't the whole "looks awesome here" but not so much when you actually get one.

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Lets just hope this isn't the whole "looks awesome here" but not so much when you actually get one.

Inklings looks in line with other Splatoon amiibos but I'm afraid Ridley way get the Merth treatment when mass production happens.

Aren't we lucky we got a smasher with "ninja" in the name

 

[GaroMaster]

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

I love how the mouth in the final product is just a small straight line.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

This comparison still gets audible laughter from me.

 

[Jexulus]

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

Literally almost dry-heaved.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

Ah yes his distant cousin, Merf.

 

[KMDP]

Ditto is the only one who can stop the tyranny of Bayonetta

Ditto is one of the best revenge killers in Pokémon.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Since this installment of Super Smash Bros is not going to have many newcomers and Daisy was added as an Echo Fighter, I think it's safe to say that Echo Fighters are going to take up a reasonable portion of the roster in order to boost the size. I'm thinking around 8 Original newcomers and 2-6 Echo Fighters.

So I'd like to speculate all the possibilities for potential Echo Fighters and to what extent they would be able to share animations and abilities.

Very Light Echo Fighters (Luigi Esque)

• Dark Samus - Probably the most unique one available, but seeing as her model is similar to Samus, she can easily perform a lot of the same animations. She has a lot of unique phazon abilities, but she's perfectly capable of performing all of Samus's specials. It's interesting to note that the Dark Samus colors are missing from Samus's pallet swaps.
• Dixie Kong - Dixie has a very similar model to Diddy, and shares abilities with him such as the gumball gun, but there are several of Diddy's animations that Dixie can't perform, so while she would share likely 3 of the 4 special moves, a lot of her originality would come from her non special attacks, similar to Lucas. Where as her Up Special and Final Smash would be entirely unique from Diddy.
  
  Given how different she'd be from Diddy, she wouldn't be super easy to make, so she might not be ideal choice when looking for characters that can be squeezed in.
• Rex - Most people would loathe the idea of Rex sharing moves with Shulk, but it's actually accurate. Rex's sword functions extremely similar to Shulk and he too has his own set of arts (Blade Arts) that alter his stats. He wouldn't qualify as an "Echo Fighter", but he'd probably be one of the more similar semi-clones. The limit of his uniqueness would likely be his size, Down Special, and the Blade Arts.
  
  Seeing as Rex is considered a shoe-in, this may lend credibility to semi-clones appearing, akin to Brawl.
• Shadow The Hedgehog - He may look similar to Sonic and share abilities such as the homing attack and spin dash, but because of his personality, most of his animations are incompatible with Sonic. It's worth noting that Knuckles has taken over the role of the Sonic assist trophy, but this may just because Knuckles is considered a better pick, and may not reflect any intention to make Shadow playable.

Pure Echo Fighters

• Dry Bowser - This character is extremely similar to Bowser, but he is known for being lighter than Bowser and having animations that reflect his undead characteristics. Dry Bowser is considered a popular Mario character and I'm sure there are a lot of people would love to see Dry Bowser go toe to toe with Ridley. My two cents on the possibility is that I REALLY want him in Smash, but it's likely there may be an eight character limit per series to compliment 8 Player Smash.
• Impa - Impa is a sheikah who taught Sheik everything she knows, but she is slightly taller and in her Ocarina of Time interpretation, she is more muscular. Sheik also got a new Final Smash to replace the bow of light.
• Ninten - Probably my #1 Character request, not counting King K. Rool. It would complete the Mother trio and Ninten has some notable differences. Using Hypnosis instead of PK Flash or EVE for his Final Smash. However, it's probably unlikely that any of the original 12 characters will receive Echo Fighters.
• Octoling - The rival of Inkling. They have been playable in several modes of Splatoon 2.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've been having problems all day. I tried to ask about them too, but the site was runnin' so slow, my messages wouldn't even get through.

Yeah, this site's acting up. Too much traffic?

It's looking like this is almost certainly the last Smash game before the series is rebooted (with a lesser roster).
Also looking like fan favorites are pretty likely this time.

Either that, or it'll be a case of culling out most echoes and/or the more redundant reps (sorry, Dr. Mario).

Still, I personally believe that we won't get another Smash for a long time specifically because only one entry comes out per major console. Since Ultimate is being released in the Switch's lifecycle so early and the system isn't a flop like the Wii U so far, it'll definitely be the last Smash we'll have for now.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Never forget the tragedy of the Marth Amiibo.

Spoiler

I remember first seeing Morf, I nearly died of laughter at how much of a botch job it was. This also reminds me of this infamous Shulk amiibo:

Let's not lose our heads now!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

• Shadow The Hedgehog - He may look similar to Sonic and share abilities such as the homing attack and spin dash, but because of his personality, most of his animations are incompatible with Sonic. It's worth noting that Knuckles has taken over the role of the Sonic assist trophy, but this may just because Knuckles is considered a better pick, and may not reflect any intention to make Shadow playable.

But it wouldn't make any sense for Knuckles to just outright replace Shadow, when Shadow is much more popular of a character with the casual base of the Sonic fandom?

Either they're both AT's or something else is going on, it could be an oddball Isaac situation but I kind of doubt it in this case.