Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StrangeMann]

Information about the new Mario vs Rabbids DLC has come about with interesting information...
Rabbid Kong isn't the final boss...?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I can only see taunts being nerfed.
I mean... we can't even say that people are too slow anymore.
Maybe the "Piece of cake" one will be changed or something like that.
About taunts, I think they must build some minor rules to not encourage dangerous murderer intent like:

Ness can't be Okay after a "early" Backthrow kill.

Since they want to nerf our taunting capabilities, at least make it right.

Sonic no longer saying "you're too slow" isn't because it's "too mean" or whatever, it's because they used Sonic's new voice actor in Smash 4 and just took voice clips of his from other games instead of having him rerecord the lines. In Japan Sonic's voice actor didn't change and he still says "you're too slow" in Smash 4.

 

[P.Kat]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my post about about 12 newcomers.

Here’s a challenge for you all,
Since the OG12 seems to hold such an importance this time around. Let’s do a 12 Newcomers list. They can be predicted, wanted, or both. Rules are 8 original/unique characters (2 of which have already been revealed in Inkling and Ridley, so you only need 6 more.) 2 semi-clones, and 2 Echoes (1 of which is Daisy, so you really only need 1 more.)

And....GO!

Unique:
Shantae
Sora
Amaterasu
Blaze the Cat
Elma
Gardevoir

Semi-Clones
Shadow
Impa

Echo
Kat & Ana (Ice Climbers echo)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sonic..."you're too slow"

I miss that line in English so much (other than having to go to Brawl to hear such beauty once more of course)

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my post about about 12 newcomers.

Here’s a challenge for you all,
Since the OG12 seems to hold such an importance this time around. Let’s do a 12 Newcomers list. They can be predicted, wanted, or both. Rules are 8 original/unique characters (2 of which have already been revealed in Inkling and Ridley, so you only need 6 more.) 2 semi-clones, and 2 Echoes (1 of which is Daisy, so you really only need 1 more.)

And....GO!

I'm assuming disconfirmed characters are not allowed.

ε (don't actually care too much here)
Went purely for what I want, though Chrom and Dixie were just fillers.

 

[Slavic]

Because I wasn't on the internet until a fair bit after Brawl was released, all of my Brawl news came from updates in Nintendo Power (rest in peace), I remember how bonkers I was to flip through the pages and see Wario and Meta Knight announced for the game.

 

[Pakky]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my post about about 12 newcomers.

Here’s a challenge for you all,
Since the OG12 seems to hold such an importance this time around. Let’s do a 12 Newcomers list. They can be predicted, wanted, or both. Rules are 8 original/unique characters (2 of which have already been revealed in Inkling and Ridley, so you only need 6 more.) 2 semi-clones, and 2 Echoes (1 of which is Daisy, so you really only need 1 more.)

And....GO!

Jeanne

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Jeanne

Where are you finding the stock icons? I simply must know.

 

[Pakky]

Where are you finding the stock icons? I simply must know.

Here ya go! :D : https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-stock-icons.455706/)

 

[Deleted member]

I edited my post so that now it uses the stock icons as well.

 

[KMDP]

People using my icons warms my heart!

 

[Arcadenik]

Speaking of Team Rocket, we should get a Team Rocket battle theme.

Only... which Team Rocket battle theme? The regular one, or Giovanni's new one?

Meowth's stage would be a good place to have Team Rocket music and other Pokémon villain groups' music. Maybe Celadon Game Corner could be Meowth's stage.

Celadon Game Corner (FireRed & LeafGreen)

For more details, check out my other post.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my post about about 12 newcomers.

Here’s a challenge for you all,
Since the OG12 seems to hold such an importance this time around. Let’s do a 12 Newcomers list. They can be predicted, wanted, or both. Rules are 8 original/unique characters (2 of which have already been revealed in Inkling and Ridley, so you only need 6 more.) 2 semi-clones, and 2 Echoes (1 of which is Daisy, so you really only need 1 more.)

And....GO!

Newcomers
Isaac
Simon Belmont
Blaziken
Ryu Hayabusa
Sigurd (horseback fighter would be very unique)
Adol (from the Ys series)

Semi Clones
Shadow the Hedgehog
Impa

Echo
Zack Fair (of Cloud)

You know i dont think we talked about is TAUNTS. I hope this time around there are more taunts and what i mean like different taunts can be applied to each character. I would love some more taunts for bayonetta, king dedede, and will just everyone should have more than 3 now. A function in the SMASH menu Choose your Taunts. - each character has 5-10 taunts and you can select which ones for each character. Would be nice. Probably will not happen but would be nice. jejej

Maybe this way Sheik could finally pull out her damn harp.

 

[SlickWylde]

I'm a little late, but saw a bunch of you guys talking about Brawl hype, and being 27. I'm 30, and I remember the Brawl hype greatly too! I remember how overdramatic people got (myself included). I don't even remember what forum I used, but it was some crappy server that someone hosted. Smashboards (and this thread specifically) has been a much more pleasant experience lol. People were so salty on that forum back in the day. But man, when the Brawl Dojo updated with a new character, it was pure pandemonium, and it was amazing! Also, our expectations were so unrealistic and I'm glad most of our wishes didn't come true, tbh haha.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Meowth's stage would be a good place to have Team Rocket music and other Pokémon villain groups' music. Maybe Celadon Game Corner could be Meowth's stage.

Celadon Game Corner (FireRed & LeafGreen)

For more details, check out my other post.

This would be amazing, throw in Mario and bowser in their Odyssey outfits and they could look like they ran the place too during the fight.

 

[New_Dumal]

Sonic no longer saying "you're too slow" isn't because it's "too mean" or whatever, it's because they used Sonic's new voice actor in Smash 4 and just took voice clips of his from other games instead of having him rerecord the lines. In Japan Sonic's voice actor didn't change and he still says "you're too slow" in Smash 4.

This piece of informatation i's very precious.
Hope they have him recording new lines to this one.
Top3 best taunts of the game and completely lost in the english Smash4.

 

[Pakky]

This would be amazing, throw in Mario and bowser in their Odyssey outfits and they could look like they ran the place too during the fight.

YES

armor please!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

This piece of informatation i's very precious.
Hope they have him recording new lines to this one.
Top3 best taunts of the game and completely lost in the english Smash4.

Hopefully they will, I do quite like Rogers Sonic nowadays so new lines pleaseeee.

 

[Pakky]

Lowkey If I heard Moon River in smash I'd lose my mind

Jump up Super Star was a purchase breaker, if it wasn't there. I'm serious.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

YES

armor please!

That would be great, Armored Zard from the Lucario movie too while we're at it.

Speaking of which I hope Lucario is more fun to me in this game he was a Brawl secondary and then in 4 he felt very awkward to me.

 

[Deleted member]

The Pokemon alt we need, but don't deserve:

Spoiler

 

[KMDP]

YES

armor please!

Infantryman Cloud (with and without helmet) would also be nice.

 

[SmashingXan2]

New 4chan text leak:

Spoiler: Leak contents

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421812226/#421812226
Some Smash Ult info for you guys.

Remaining characters to be revealed are: Rash, Banjo, Dark Samus, Shadow, Ken, Simon Belmont, Dixie Kong, K.Rool and Geno. Geno is a solo character. Dark Samus is an echo. Banjo is here, but could only be in if Rash was in, so both are in. Simon was a request from Konami. Ken is also an echo, but has his crazy kicks. Shadow is also considered an echo, but uses Chaos Control in his Final Smash and as his recovery move. Chaos spear is not in his moveset.

As for system changes, hitstun will be going up, which will hopefully make matches move faster, as least that's what my sources tell me. The development team wants the game to be MUCH more awarding towards aggressive play. Bayo is getting nerfed into the ground from what they tell me as well. She's losing all jumps after Witch Twist and her Up-Air and Back-Air can no longer kill.

What is it with Rash from Battletoads of all characters?

Anyways, the count has been streamlined on Google Sheets and is now in my signature for ease of viewing.

This seems somewhat likely

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Infantryman Cloud (with and without helmet) would also be nice.

Nice idea, but I think we have enough with default and AC looks... we could use better colors though.

 

[Pakky]

That would be great, Armored Zard from the Lucario movie too while we're at it.

Speaking of which I hope Lucario is more fun to me in this game he was a Brawl secondary and then in 4 he felt very awkward to me.

has this weird lose to win thing going on with aura that I've never liked.

Its not like say

in ARMS where the kit's effectiveness doesn't depend on you getting hurt

 

[osby]

has this weird lose to win thing going on with aura that I've never liked.

Its not like say

in ARMS where the kit's effectiveness doesn't depend on you getting hurt

"Surviving at high percents" =/= "lose to win"

 

[Opossum]

I made Part 2 of "Opinions of Characters Outside of Smash":
https://smashboards.com/threads/whats-your-opinion-of-the-melee-14-outside-of-smash-part-2.455977/

It deals with Melee.

Made a post there about Marth if anyone wants to read it. :D

 

[Pakky]

"Surviving at high percents" =/= "lose to win"

It feels like unlocking the full extent of the move set at high percents gimping the entirety of the kit for most of the match.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

That would be great, Armored Zard from the Lucario movie too while we're at it.

Speaking of which I hope Lucario is more fun to me in this game he was a Brawl secondary and then in 4 he felt very awkward to me.

I'm in the same boat about Lucario; he's my second favorite pokemon and in Brawl I nearly mained him (I was just better with Dedede/Wolf/Snake and eventually ROB), but in Smash 4 I really disliked the direction they went with him. In Brawl he was more of a "jack of all stats" with the Aura gimmick on top to make him a good but not oppressive character, and then in Smash 4, while the Extreme Speed and Force Palm buffs were really needed, they made him quite a bit slower (especially frame data wise) and significantly decreased the size of his hitboxes, while amping up the effect of Aura to compensate. The result was a slow character with a poor neutral (with Aura Sphere and fear at high percents being his saving grace) and is useless at lower percents (in Brawl while weak he still had a relatively good combo game at low percents and could rack up damage decently, as well as the frame data and hitboxes to still be able to throw out safe moves without needing high damage), who revolves entirely around the Aura gimmick. Viability wise he was about equivalent in Smash 4 to how he was in Brawl (though his tier position more debatable because he's such an extreme character), but I couldn't click with him at all and he is a lot less fun. Hopefully in Smash Ultimate they tone the Aura down some and make him closer to his Brawl version (his Smash U trailer showed a u-tilt to d-smash and a triple fair combo that looked like it was right out of Brawl, so I'm a little hopeful).

 

[92MilesPrower]

Seeing as everyone is answering the question Where Were You When Brawl Released, might as well join in:

I was in 5th grade when Brawl came out, and I can't really remember too much about everything that was going on around that time. It was my first Smash Bros. game (I don't think I ever played Melee or the original beforehand, unless I did at a friend's house one time) and I didn't know things about certain characters, such as Marth, who I mistook for a girl for a little while. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that my brother and I spent the vast majority of our time playing SSE ever since the day we got it. One thing I remember for sure, though, is at some point my brother and I came up with our own dream roster for a potential 4th Smash Bros, and neither of us knew what was even realistic or anything for the roster, and I did stuff such as remove Olimar since I didn't like him for some reason, add Megaman X over regular Megaman, added like 6 Sonic characters, etc. I think we mostly thought of it as a sequel to SSE rather than a new Smash Bros. since I think we mostly were coming up with levels and such for an Adventure mode, rather than anything else. Remember, I was 10, and my brother was 7.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really hope Falco is more like his Brawl self. He was more fun that way.

Ike too.

Smash 4 made Falco too slow and Ike felt too weak.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Exactly. I championed for Duck Hunt Dog to be a playable fighter in Smash for 12 years when no one else would (or at least that's how I felt back then).

Now that I finally have my dog, I am championing for my cat.

Then I'm sorry I said noone would have missed him. Actually kinda cool that you fought so long and finally got him

I quite like dog & duck as well, given that I had fun playing Duck Hunt on NES.

Mostly for those, I just want the thing itself. I’d prefer my newcomers stay for character reasons.

We have gotten some unattached songs and stages from Nintendo series, and now Rayman and Bomberman have shown us that representation doesn’t need playability.

My big one is a Tetris stage. I always come back to that. I also wouldn’t mind loads of trophies from various series whether playable or not.

Wouldn't the Tetris Company cause problems? I recall that a Tetris-themed stage was removed from Rayman Origins.

"Surviving at high percents" =/= "lose to win"

This. Risk Vs. Reward at its finest.

 

[New_Dumal]

About the Rash, Banjo, Dixie, K.Rool, Geno, Simon Belmont and Bayo getting hard nerfed leak.
Not buying it not because of the characters but because of how it was explained.

"Rash happening as a necessary factor to free Banjo for Smash."
From everything we had know until now, this is not how Smash/Sakurai works with thirdies.
Banjo is a requested character, so I can see Sakurai reaching them for Banjo. But taking another character as a condition is (again, from my point of view) out of question. He doesn't developed Ridley before because it was against his vision of the character so I doubt he would make Rash playable as a bargain....

"Simon Belmont was a Konami request"
Again, as the thirdies were able to force characters into Smash. Just can't see it happening at all.
Simon is a popular representative of a popular old game, and Sakurai may want him into Smash.
That's all. They're not products like "I'm only selling them in groups, so if you want Snake back, put Simon too."
Konami is also showing not that much of interest in Castlevania lately.

Ok characters and gameplay changes, but I seriously doubt that logic.

 

[RandomAce]

Okay, so since speculation is going to seem dire, I’m going to be making in depth thoughts on some of the characters that people are speculating about. Mostly because I want to get my ideas out there and my opinions on some of the characters people are showcasing and some things I want to get off my chest. Also know that these are my opinions and you may see the stuff I say differently.

Warning: These are going to be ****load wall levels of text.

Starting today I will be sharing my in depth thoughts on Lycanoc.

1: Lycanroc (Midday/Dusk/Midnight)

As some of you might know, Lycanroc is the Wolf Pokemon from Pokemon Sun and Moon and the evolution of Rockruff. In the original Pokémon Sun and Moon, Rockruff could evolve into one of two forms, Midday Lycanroc in Pokemon Sun during the day, and Midnight Lycanroc in Pokemon Moon during the night. Lycanroc also have geokinetic earth like powers that they specialize in. Dusk was a new form introduced in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon through a special Rockruff obtained through an event that can evolve during the 5:00 to 5:59 in the morning or afternoon in either version.

Spoiler: Midday and Midnight Lycanroc (Stance Fighter)

MIDDAY and MIDNIGHT:

One of the main reason why I like Lycanroc is it’s concept. The whole concept of Lycanroc is to have two opposites of a whole, a yin and yang sort of opposite.

Their concept art showcases how the dual evolutions are complete opposites of each other. They have different fur color, stance with midday a quadruped normal looking wolf and midnight a bipedal and more werewolf like, different personalities with one being modest and calm and the other being battle thirsty and fierce, and one being a powerhouse while the other is more speedy and is weaker. This and their more simple designs is what makes me like Lycanroc. They’re two half’s of a whole that demonstrate their contrasts from one another with more simpler characteristics that makes them lovable.

With this, Midday and Midnight were heavily pushed from the beginning of Pokémon Sun and Moon’s hype cycle. With lots merchandising and appearances in the anime (with Midnight and Midday being key battles Ash has to face against Olivia and Gladion respectively). It was obvious Lycanroc was meant to be big from the start.

However, one of the first things I could see as a reason for Sakurai choosing Lycanroc is due to it’s dualistic concept, with having both Midday and Midnight Lycanroc as a stance fighter where they can switch out with either to have a fast quick pressure heavy character and a bait and punish strong character. Both having access to the same moveset but a different special, Stats, and play style. That and along with earth abilities that no one else has, Lycanroc can be a big standout and unique character from the rest of the cast. This unique and integral concept is what makes me think this what Sakurai will find the most interesting and try to implement in the game. That and with Lycanroc already being planned as pushed Pokémon makes this possibility a lot more plausible.

Spoiler: Dusk Lycanroc

DUSK:
Warning: Soon this section’s will make my thoughts on Dusk will put Cutie Gwen ’s Lycanroc hatred to shame.

Dusk Lycanroc one of the first Pokémon revealed for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. It is meant to be an combination of both Lycanroc forms into a single form. Dusk Lycanroc then rose to be the prominent form, being Ash’s signature Pokémon, having lots of merchandise and heavy promotion.

However, I don’t like it as much compared to the other two forms. And if I had to describe my thoughts on Dusk Lycanroc, it would be one word...

Lazy...

I’m sorry but Dusk Lycanroc is easily the most RUSHED, UNINSPIRING, COPY PASTED, CHEAPILY MADE, BADLY DESINGED pushed piece of trash in Pokemon’s history.

I mean look at this, LOOK AT THIS! What kind of ATROCITY did they do when developing this form. WAS IT EVEN DEVELOPED AT ALL!? Not only is Dusk Lycanroc’s design a blatant copy of midday with a horn and recoloring and called it a day, how is it even possible when IT’S ****ING CONCEPT ART is literally just ripped from Midday’s concept art. They literally just recolored it, and that’s it and are pushing something that they put little effort into! SCREW THIS FORM! I LOVE IT! BUT F******** THIS FORM!

And it’s a shame, because Dusk looks like an incomplete algomation of the two. Unlike Midday and Midnight Lycanroc who’s designs are more refined to be contrasted from each other, by having Dusk mostly use Midday’s concept art and model, Dusk looks like a recolored Midday, sharing it’s characteristics and has a similar personality to Midday and doesn’t carry many characteristics from Midnight. His stats also don’t really replicate this either. Leaning more on the faster weaker side than a balance, which holds true because Midday’s stance is meant to look more fast and quick, which is what Dusk would also look because it carries Midday’s stance and build. Thus, when looking at the three, it’s more screwed towards midday, instead of being a balance of the two.

Dusk on it’s own has unique traits. Obviously it has rock abilites and a combination of Midday’s and Midnight’s moveset, and it can use it’s stat boost from the anime as well (if Sakurai knows well into that as well, which is quite likely since it’s a simple unique ability). So there is some that can make Dusk Lycanroc stand out on it’s own.

It is no doubt that when Sakurai was selecting a Pokémon to be a newcomer Dusk Lycanroc was most likely available as well and was also probably suggested. However, there is something that I think is what makes Dusk a little bit less likley.

Spoiler: Final Verdict

FINAL VERDICT:
When looking at Lycanroc I can see one of two possibilities.

A) Midday and Midnight:
An earth based stance fighter that can swap between a Day and Night Lycanroc and switch between a quick stage controlling/rushdown character between a bait and punish stronger slower play style.

B) Dusk:
An earth based situation fighter that can use both Midday’s and Midnight’s abilities to adjust in battle and also use a stat boost in some occasions to help it in battle.

Verdict:
In my opinion, I think Midday and Midnight will win out and become our playable stance Pokémon fighter. Yes, Dusk it the one that appears in the anime, yes Dusk is the one that gets the promotion that it gets now. However, having a sole stance fighter AND rock user is what I think Sakurai will find most appealing when it comes to Lycanroc as it can make Lycanroc very different from the rest of the roster (plus Midday and Midnight are still popular and still get promotion from TPC).

Dusk can still be unique but it just isn’t at the level of using both Midday and Midnight as a stance fighter and have to same abilites from Dusk with more, and it’s something I can see Sakurai end up deciding.

Now if Dusk ends up getting in, then I will be disappointed, I only support having Midday and Midnight as it just seems more interesting and can represent Lycanroc much better in it’s design and personalities. Count me out for supporting Dusk as it doesn’t do a good job at all when it comes to being a combination of both forms and looks rather rush and ill-done with very little thought going into it. It’s concept art also proves this, as it’s ripped from Midday’s.

Yes, a lot of evidence does come from Dusk, but it’s the only form ever talked about when it comes to Lycanroc in both the Lycanroc support thread and speculation, seeing that it’s Dusk or bust as if Dusk were to get deconfirmed it’s a done deal when we have another more interesting possibility.

And with that, I’m done.

Cheers!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"Simon Belmont was a Konami request"
Again, as the thirdies were able to force characters into Smash. Just can't see it happening at all.
Simon is a popular representative of a popular old game, and Sakurai may want him into Smash.
That's all. They're not products like "I'm only selling them in groups, so if you want Snake back, put Simon too."
Konami is also showing not that much of interest in Castlevania lately.

Saying Simon was a request from Konami doesn't mean they were holding Snake hostage.

I mean Kojima requested Snake for Melee and Brawl. For all we know, it could have been, "hey, since you're making a new Smash game, did you think about adding Simon Belmont? He'd probably make a lot of people happy (and make us both rich)."

 

[Deleted member]

New 4chan text leak:

Spoiler: Leak contents

https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/421812226/#421812226
Some Smash Ult info for you guys.

Remaining characters to be revealed are: Rash, Banjo, Dark Samus, Shadow, Ken, Simon Belmont, Dixie Kong, K.Rool and Geno. Geno is a solo character. Dark Samus is an echo. Banjo is here, but could only be in if Rash was in, so both are in. Simon was a request from Konami. Ken is also an echo, but has his crazy kicks. Shadow is also considered an echo, but uses Chaos Control in his Final Smash and as his recovery move. Chaos spear is not in his moveset.

As for system changes, hitstun will be going up, which will hopefully make matches move faster, as least that's what my sources tell me. The development team wants the game to be MUCH more awarding towards aggressive play. Bayo is getting nerfed into the ground from what they tell me as well. She's losing all jumps after Witch Twist and her Up-Air and Back-Air can no longer kill.

What is it with Rash from Battletoads of all characters?

Anyways, the count has been streamlined on Google Sheets and is now in my signature for ease of viewing.

Just saw this.
I always automatically assume every leak is fake, but this is how I reacted reading this one:

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

For my 12 character list, I'm having a mix of prediction/want, also, I don't no how to use stock icons so it'll just be text, sorry

UNIQUE:
King K. Rool
Geno
Bandana Dee
Ashley
Decidueye
Microsoft character- (either Steve, Banjo, or Master chief)

SEMI-CLONE:
Dixie Kong
Shadow

ECHO:
Daisy
Dark Samus


Let me know what you think!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I really hope Falco is more like his Brawl self. He was more fun that way.

Ike too.

Smash 4 made Falco too slow and Ike felt too week.

Smash 4 Ike though is quite a bit faster and no longer has to rely entirely on his jab for neutral and damage racking. Some of his moves definitely felt underpowered though like his smashes and uair (why did his slow ass uair only do 11% damage?!), and the sound effects of his sword took a huge nerf.

About the Rash, Banjo, Dixie, K.Rool, Geno, Simon Belmont and Bayo getting hard nerfed leak.
Not buying it not because of the characters but because of how it was explained.

"Rash happening as a necessary factor to free Banjo for Smash."
From everything we had know until now, this is not how Smash/Sakurai works with thirdies.
Banjo is a requested character, so I can see Sakurai reaching them for Banjo. But taking another character as a condition is (again, from my point of view) out of question. He doesn't developed Ridley before because it was against his vision of the character so I doubt he would make Rash playable as a bargain....

"Simon Belmont was a Konami request"
Again, as the thirdies were able to force characters into Smash. Just can't see it happening at all.
Simon is a popular representative of a popular old game, and Sakurai may want him into Smash.
That's all. They're not products like "I'm only selling them in groups, so if you want Snake back, put Simon too."
Konami is also showing not that much of interest in Castlevania lately.

Ok characters and gameplay changes, but I seriously doubt that logic.

It's certainly possible for a third party to request a character; Snake happened to begin with because Kojima requested Sakurai to include him in both Melee and Brawl. Now a third party being able to strong arm Sakurai into using one is dubious (maybe Konami could because Sakurai really wanted Snake back for the everybody is back thing, but doubtful any other third party character is big enough for Sakurai to abide to such demands), but just requesting isn't out of the question.

 

[Murlough]

1. Who the **** is Rush?
2. They aren't nerfing Bayo that hard. No way, no how.....probably. like I want her to be nerfed but thats just excessive. Imo remove the thriple (and by extension quadruple) jump glitch and see where that leaves her.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Smash 4 Ike though is quite a bit faster and no longer has to rely entirely on his jab for neutral and damage racking. Some of his moves definitely felt underpowered though like his smashes and uair (why did his slow *** uair only do 11% damage?!), and the sound effect of his sword took a huge nerf.

Ironically, Ike's u-air was one of the strongest u-airs, in terms of knockback dealt; it can KO fighters sooner than Donkey Kong's u-air, which deals 13% damage.