Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jetsurge]

Today is June 23rd. If you're a fanboy or fangirl of Sonic just like I am, you should know very well what today is. On that note, here's a question for a hypothetical situation: If Shadow were playable, what would be a better Final Smash for him: Super Shadow, or Chaos Blast? Chaos Control is out of the question since it seems like every Final Smash will be damaging, from what we've seen.

Super Shadow clone of Sonic's final smash

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The Samus Returns concept art is the only time Samus was shown with muscle AFAIK.

She also was shown with muscles in a Super Metroid concept art. ZSS's arms were also muscular in Smash 4.

 

[KMDP]

Today is June 23rd. If you're a fanboy or fangirl of Sonic just like I am, you should know very well what today is. On that note, here's a question for a hypothetical situation: If Shadow were playable, what would be a better Final Smash for him: Super Shadow, or Chaos Blast? Chaos Control is out of the question since it seems like every Final Smash will be damaging, from what we've seen.

Well, there's a new Mania short, is that what you're referring to?

Chaos Control should be his recovery (I mean the Warp aspect, not the Time Slow aspect)

 

[TBone06]

Moot point, but I get what you're saying.

Mii costumes are not hard evidence of inclusion but they are evidence of interest. After all they had to market them to people who wnated to play as said characters without taking it as a personal insult.

So Ashley, Isabelle, Chrom and K. Rool looks good in their chances but nothing's concrete. Nintendo's not intentionally hinted at or promised anything. Still, fun to wonder.

To expand on this, it definitely is a sign of popularity. Any speculation is what you want to make it. Some people are going to say Mii Costumes mean nothing, others are going to say it does. That's all speculation is. Personally I think it's a nod to the popularity, but like Guybrush20X6 said, nothing is concrete. But that goes for anything we look at. There's nothing ever concrete until something is revealed or disconfirmed.

Personally, I do think Mii Costumes have some merit, especially in the instances of Geno (sorry if it's biased) and K. Rool. But even in the instance of Ashley, Isabelle and Chrom as well. I mean we saw it with Inklings already, and maybe they were a bit more of a shoo-in. But these characters got included because they are popular, and I think popularity does matter for including characters as we've seen in the past.

 

[Murlough]

Pyra would never be a Greninja situation because it’s not the same thing”, or “Ashley is more likely because she hasn’t been seen just yet and had a Mii Costume”. It seems to me that the only reason Rex and Pyra can’t be a Greninja situation is because particular people don’t like Rex and Pyra because “muh sexualization”, and people are just ignoring the fact that there are still 20 something remaining Assist Trophies we haven’t seen and assuming it “increases a characters chances” when that’s not necessarily the case.

Actually, the argument against Rex/Pyra getting the concept art treatment was Sakurai stating he only did that because its Pokemon.

I don't know if he actually said that but I also don't really know how you came up with "muh sexualization" as the main argument against that idea.

And no it doesn't "increase the chances" of a certain newcomer but it does give us supporters a reason to remain hopeful. Until I see Ashley's assist trophy I'm gonna keep hoping. I dunno why thats considered wrong.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Today is June 23rd. If you're a fanboy or fangirl of Sonic just like I am, you should know very well what today is. On that note, here's a question for a hypothetical situation: If Shadow were playable, what would be a better Final Smash for him: Super Shadow, or Chaos Blast? Chaos Control is out of the question since it seems like every Final Smash will be damaging, from what we've seen.

Chaos Control and then he automatically kicks everyone in the back of the skull.

(Turns out you can find Diamonds in anything if you look hard enough)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well, there's a new Mania short, is that what you're referring to?

He's referring to the fact that Sonic the Hedgehog 1 was released on June 23rd, 1991.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

DK hasn't had a newcomer since Brawl and is the current extremely popular and iconic franchise from the OG 8 to have less than 3 characters in total.

The demand for a DK newcomer is huge. Whether K. Rool or Dixie, I'm willing to bet that it will receive at least one newcomer this time.

Also, why are there people legit thinking Geni has a likely chance when his situation is almost exactly the same as K. Rool's, except worse because he's only had a SINGLE appearance that predates even K. Rool's last appearance and Nintendo also doesn't own the character.

If people has their way in here with all the requests, we literally wouldn't get a newcomer from Mario, Pokémon, DK, and maybe even Zelda. What does that leave us with? Ashley and Isabelle? Elma? That's three characters, and one is popularly requested as an Echo Fighter. Who else, besides these series we hold with high scrutiny would be relevant and add to the all-star roster? A couple third parties in the base game would bump that up to five (since we've never had more than 2 third-party characters added in succession) and would leave only room for nore Echo Fighters or the obscure retro picks.

Is this the most likely scenario? Oh wait, two of those characters were ATs and could ve disconfirmed at any time? Well, does that make them likely? Only one character has gotten special treatment when it came to the AT-to-playable treatment, and that was a popularly demanded Little Mac from Western audiences, I believe. To advocate for two of these ATs to get that treatment doesn't sound too likely now, does it?

In the end, we'll never know how Sakurai thinks and what he'll do, so this is why trying to demote others will get us nowhere, and I kindly ask that we stop raising any hostility levels before another Waluigi happens.

 

[KMDP]

He's referring to the fact that Sonic the Hedgehog 1 was released on June 23rd, 1991.

Ahhhhhhhh. I see.

Chaos Control and then he automatically kicks everyone in the back of the skull.

(Turns out you can find Diamonds in anything if you look hard enough)

Make the roundhouse kick Shadow's forward tilt, and give it the property of leaving fighters prone if he hits from behind.

 

[Louie G.]

Is this the most likely scenario? Oh wait, two of those characters were ATs and could ve disconfirmed at any time? Well, does that make them likely? Only one character has gotten special treatment when it came to the AT-to-playable treatment, and that was a popularly demanded Little Mac from Western audiences, I believe. To advocate for two of these ATs to get that treatment doesn't sound too likely now, does it?

Well to be fair, this doesn't make it sound particularly unlikely either. Little Mac opens the gates to AT promotions, and I'm positive we'll get at least one. Ashley and Isabelle especially, at the time of their inclusion as ATs, were rising stars and their roles have only gotten bigger. Little Mac was a retro character at the time of his inclusion as an AT, then Punch Out Wii came along and that probably helped a lot.

I feel that ATs are characters who were considered but passed on for whatever reason, Takamaru being a good example of this as a character that Sakurai specifically said he wanted to include but he didn't have enough notoriety. For characters like Ashley and Isabelle, their notoriety has only increased since. I'm not saying they're guaranteed, but yeah their absence from the current AT lineup as popular and notable characters does mean something especially when fairly popular characters like Waluigi and Takamaru were disconfirmed without hesitation.

 

[92MilesPrower]

He's referring to the fact that Sonic the Hedgehog 1 was released on June 23rd, 1991.

You sir, are correct.

Here's another Sonic related question: Aside from Green Hill Zone, what other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage? I'd love to see a Stardust Speedway stage that every so often changes from Present to Future and vice versa, with Metal Sonic causing the switch in the background.

 

[KMDP]

Here's another Sonic related question: Aside from Green Hill Zone, what other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage?

Sega would tell you the answer's Chemical Plant Zone.

My response... uh... Radical Highway, cause Sonic Adventure 2 was the first cross platform Sonic game.

Actually... Stage Idea!

Angel Island! A stage which is like the reverse of Castle Siege.

You start in Hidden Palace, then after a while your warp to Sky Sanctuary, then after a little longer, you rise to the Death Egg.
Three stages in one, representing one of the most beloved Sonic Games.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Well to be fair, this doesn't make it sound particularly unlikely either. Little Mac opens the gates to AT promotions, and I'm positive we'll get at least one. Ashley and Isabelle especially, at the time of their inclusion as ATs, were rising stars and their roles have only gotten bigger. Little Mac was a retro character at the time of his inclusion as an AT, then Punch Out Wii came along and that probably helped a lot.

I feel that ATs are characters who were considered but passed on for whatever reason, Takamaru being a good example of this as a character that Sakurai specifically said he wanted to include but he didn't have enough notoriety. For characters like Ashley and Isabelle, their notoriety has only increased since. I'm not saying they're guaranteed, but yeah their absence from the current AT lineup as popular and notable characters does mean something especially when fairly popular characters like Waluigi and Takamaru were disconfirmed without hesitation.

You make a fair point. However, this could also be twisted around to legitimately make Pong a playable character as a retro pick that's widely known.

 

[Louie G.]

You make a fair point. However, this could also be twisted around to legitimately make Pong a playable character as a retro pick that's widely known.

I see where you're coming from, but there's a point where the line is obviously drawn. Ashley, Isabelle, Dillon, Dark Samus etc are all realizable fighters, while Pong isn't even a character. Plus my point was that Mac was no longer just limited to retro, and yeah although Pong is a very famous game it didn't get a big reboot during the last console generation.

Yeah it's a tricky point to make when you take something like that into consideration, but this is one of those cases where it really boils down to "you know what I mean".

 

[KMDP]

What other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage?

Joke answer that's not Chemical Plant.

Crisis City, because everything's ruined and on fire. And the only people who can fix it are trying desperately to go to the past.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it a bit Strange that whenever we talk about characters, it's almost always who we predict, but when we talk about stages and music it's typically what we want to see.

 

[Octorockandroll]

I see where you're coming from, but there's a point where the line is obviously drawn. Ashley, Isabelle, Dillon, Dark Samus etc are all realizable fighters, while Pong isn't even a character. Plus my point was that Mac was no longer just limited to retro, and yeah although Pong is a very famous game it didn't get a big reboot during the last console generation.

Yeah it's a tricky point to make when you take something like that into consideration, but this is one of those cases where it really boils down to "you know what I mean".

This is what's so hard about discussing potential newcomers. There's so much of it rooted not just in our own imaginations but in our individual personal experiences and affinities that pretty much every standard for a good neecomer can basically be boiled down to "I know it when I see it"

 

[MBRedboy31]

You make a fair point. However, this could also be twisted around to legitimately make Pong a playable character as a retro pick that's widely known.

Color TV-Game 15 =/= Pong. (I mean, it pretty much is a rip-off of Pong, but yeah. They’re still legally different, though.)

Of course, Sakurai would need to have the move set inspiration to make either of those playable, which seems... unlikely.

 

[Arcadenik]

Not all of the newcomers are going to be fanservice.

Wii Fit Trainer?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In terms of Sonic stuff, I want Fist Bump half ironically and half unironically and What I'm Made Of more than anything

 

[Enderwoman]

The Samus Returns concept art is the only time Samus was shown with muscle AFAIK. Alongside the shorter heel being shared in the designs and Samus' arms also having some muscle too, I just can't see it as Sakurai looking ahead and liking what he saw

...Samus has had a lot of muscle before. Prior to Fusion and Zero Mission she was a pretty large woman.

 

[KMDP]

I find it a bit Strange that whenever we talk about characters, it's almost always who we predict, but when we talk about stages and music it's typically what we want to see.

Correction! It's almost always who predict, usually with a heaping helping of what we want to see.

As a serious answer, it's probably because we don't know how Sakurai picks stages, while we have a pretty good (if flawed) idea of how he picks characters.

 

[Murlough]

You sir, are correct.
View attachment 149796
Here's another Sonic related question: Aside from Green Hill Zone, what other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage? I'd love to see a Stardust Speedway stage that every so often changes from Present to Future and vice versa, with Metal Sonic causing the switch in the background.

I like how Blaze is there but neither Shadow nor Silver are.

Big the Cat has been MIA for a while if I'm not mistaken.

Sonic is a weird series.

 

[osby]

Wii Fit Trainer?

Best Smash 4 newcomer.

Also, remember Sakurai isn't interested in only putting popular characters into the game. If he thinks fans will find the character fun, he'll still add them, like Corrin or Ice Climbers, alongside with other factors.

There is more than one way with providing fanservice.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Honestly, as much as I like Waluigi, I kinda don't want him to get into Ultimate, DLC or otherwise, because of all the toxicity going on at the moment, what with fans harassing Sakurai on Twitter and all. Which sucks because now casual fans of the character, such as myself, are being lumped in with these ****faces.

I think this is the most toxic a Nintendo community has gotten in recent years.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

You sir, are correct.
View attachment 149796
Here's another Sonic related question: Aside from Green Hill Zone, what other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage? I'd love to see a Stardust Speedway stage that every so often changes from Present to Future and vice versa, with Metal Sonic causing the switch in the background.

I've wanted a city escape stage since I was a kid tbh, it's not gonna happen but god I want it

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In terms of Sonic stuff, I want Fist Bump half ironically and half unironically and What I'm Made Of more than anything

I want Infinite's theme.

I have this image of Dark Pit listening it it and inadvertently singing along to it while Pit just stands next to him. Cue the "How long were you standing there?"s and "Tell no one"s.

 

[KMDP]

I like how Blaze is there but neither Shadow nor Silver are.

Well, that's the Blaze from the alternate dimension, silly.

...Ignore the fact she appears in Crisis City.

Big the Cat has been MIA for a while if I'm not mistaken.

Shortly after Sonic Heroes, Big the Cat lost Froggy again and went looking for him.

None of the cast except Cream missed him.

Sonic is a weird series.

Yes.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I like how Blaze is there but neither Shadow nor Silver are.

Big the Cat has been MIA for a while if I'm not mistaken.

Sonic is a weird series.

Big is in the new racing game.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

You sir, are correct.
View attachment 149796
Here's another Sonic related question: Aside from Green Hill Zone, what other level would best represent the Sonic franchise as a stage? I'd love to see a Stardust Speedway stage that every so often changes from Present to Future and vice versa, with Metal Sonic causing the switch in the background.

I think Stardust Speedway would be good although I think the most iconic stage besides Chemical Plant is probably City Escape because of SA2's general popularity and it being the first Sonic game of many back on the GC.

 

[osby]

Honestly, as much as I like Waluigi, I kinda don't want him to get into Ultimate, DLC or otherwise, because of all the toxicity going on at the moment, what with fans harassing Sakurai on Twitter and all. Which sucks because now casual fans of the character, such as myself, are being lumped in with these ****faces.

I think this is the most toxic a Nintendo community has gotten in recent years.

I don't want him because I think his Assist Trophy already does every substential thing he does but I get your point.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If we get another Sonic character I kinda want it to be Amy.

She can do a lot of the things Sonic can, but also has a hammer like King Dedede or the Ice Climbers, which I think could lead to an interesting playstyle.

No chance in hell that'll happen but a man can dream...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly, as much as I like Waluigi, I kinda don't want him to get into Ultimate, DLC or otherwise, because of all the toxicity going on at the moment, what with fans harassing Sakurai on Twitter and all. Which sucks because now casual fans of the character, such as myself, are being lumped in with these ****faces.

I think this is the most toxic a Nintendo community has gotten in recent years.

Honestly i just don't want him in ultimate cause I'd rather see Paper Mario or Captain Toad before him, I don't see much reason to add waluigi other than popularity which came from him being a meme. He honestly just doesn't feel like he'd add a lot or be that interesting of a character either

 

[Louie G.]

All this Waluigi drama has helped me realize that he's not really such a great choice after all. I still think he's a fun character who I would really enjoy playing as in Smash, but all the Mario characters (even Daisy!) have appeared in main series Mario games. Waluigi's best chance is if he can ever earn the Wario emblem, and for some reason it seems like Warioware is going out of its way not to include Waluigi.

So yeah, it's a pretty sad situation for him, but I've kinda come to terms with the fact that Waluigi is perfect AT fare. He's objectively a filler character, although I still love him.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Cream is kind of another puppeteer fighter that'd be cool.

Silver could be pretty cool too, even if we already have a psychic character on the roster already.

Big, admittedly, would be unique...

Omega would be our first robot.

Metal is a legit echo that could also happen besides Shadow.

Tails is unique too.

Rouge could also be cool.

Any Sonic character would be cool.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Omega would be our first robot.

bruh are you trippin or

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Cream is kind of another puppeteer fighter that'd be cool.

Silver could be pretty cool too, even if we already have a psychic character on the roster already.

Big, admittedly, would be unique...

Omega would be our first robot.

Metal is a legit echo that could also happen besides Shadow.

Tails is unique too.

Rouge could also be cool.

Any Sonic character would be cool.

I'm still all for both Tails and Knuckles getting in, yeah it's a lot for a 3rd party series but Sonic practically feels like an honorary nintendo series nowadays anyway and they're both crazy iconic

What we really need though is a new sonic fighting game, **** this racing game and give us a fighting game sega

 

[KMDP]

Cream is kind of another puppeteer fighter that'd be cool.

Hmm, yeah. I can see it.

Silver could be pretty cool too, even if we already have a psychic character on the roster already.

But it's no use.

Omega would be our first robot.

Excuse you? ('d by MamaLuigi123456 )
[QUOTE}Metal is a legit echo that could also happen besides Shadow.

Tails is unique too.

Rouge could also be cool.[/QUOTE]
All yes.

Any Sonic character would be cool.

Yup.

 

[Murlough]

Honestly, as much as I like Waluigi, I kinda don't want him to get into Ultimate, DLC or otherwise, because of all the toxicity going on at the moment, what with fans harassing Sakurai on Twitter and all. Which sucks because now casual fans of the character, such as myself, are being lumped in with these ****faces.

I think this is the most toxic a Nintendo community has gotten in recent years.

I know this might be a bit of an unpopular opinion but I feel like those who generalize entire groups of people based on the actions of a few are just as bad as the people committing heinous actions. This extends far past just fanbases.

Generalizing is a toxic technic that is completely outdated and should be called out whenever someone sees it. Just because one guy likes Waluigi, or considers himself part of a certain group, doesn't mean we should treat him like the tools who harassed Sakurai.

I'm willing to bet most of the people bothering him were either children or just lowlifers of society trying to cause a scene. Real Waluigi fans wouldn't do something so moronic and counterproductive.

Well, that's the Blaze from the alternate dimension, silly.

...Ignore the fact she appears in Crisis City.

Shortly after Sonic Heroes, Big the Cat lost Froggy again and went looking for him.

None of the cast except Cream missed him.

Yes.

There are canonically two Blaze the Cat's? Isn't Silver Sonic's super great grandson?

Poor Big.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Cream is kind of another puppeteer fighter that'd be cool.

Silver could be pretty cool too, even if we already have a psychic character on the roster already.

Big, admittedly, would be unique...

Omega would be our first robot.

Metal is a legit echo that could also happen besides Shadow.

Tails is unique too.

Rouge could also be cool.

Any Sonic character would be cool.

"First robot"?????

ROB and Megaman are already in Smash tho.