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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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MoonlitIllusion

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Remake of an old game, Remake of an old Game, Impa was a super old woman in Skyward Sword, and Hyrule warriors are spin-off games that have the same weight as the Smash games.
Wind Waker will not be relevant again unless they also remake the games from the ds, which they will not, Majora's Mask will never be relevant again, Impa could be, but she has been an old woman more times than a warrior.
In fact, same with Metroid, when Sakurai decided to add Ridley, it was before Samus Returns and Metroid Prime 4 were being made, so for the time, Ridley and Metroid were irrelevant.
Just because a franchise or a character is irrelevant, that should not be the reason why they could not be in this smash game, after all, this is smash ultimate, where sakurai is trying to please all the fans, so having a F-Zero character is as possible as having skull kid.
Remake of an old game or not it's still a main game, better than anything f-zero has :troll:

And Impa was a young warrior for the vast majority of skyward sword lmao.

Smash has almost always focused on characters that were relevant, that's really nothing new
 

monadoboy

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Okay, here's a topic I don't see many people bringing up.

Music.

I'll use Zelda as an example.

Let's take a look at the confirmed Zelda stages for Ultimate.

Hyrule Caslte (N64)
Great Bay (Melee)
Temple (Melee)
Bridge of Eldin (Brawl)
Gerudo Valley (3DS)
Spirit Train (3DS)
Skyloft (Wii U)
Great Plateau Tower (Ultimate)

That's 8 stages. Only missing stage is Pirate Ship which could easily make it in the game.

That said... that... is a lot of stages.

But my question is... how is the music gonna work? Where are the tracks going?

I'll go ahead and list every track from Zelda we've had in the Smash. Note: I'm not including jingles like the victory themes. Remixed tracks will be underlined.

I'll also list the Smash game the track debuted in and the original source for the track.

N64 Tracks:
Hyrule Castle (The Legend of Zelda)

Melee Tracks:
Main Theme (The Legend of Zelda)
Temple (Zelda II: The Adventure of Link)
Saria's Song (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)


Brawl Tracks:
Main Theme Ver. 2 (The Legend of Zelda)
Title (The Legend of Zelda)
Great Temple / Temple (Zelda II: Adventure of Link)
The Dark World (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)
Hidden Mountains & Forest (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)
Tal Tal Heights: (The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening)
Ocarina of Time Medley (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
Hyrule Field Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
Song of Storms (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
Gerudo Valley (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)

Termina Field: (The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask)
Dragon Roost Island (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
The Great Sea (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker)
Molgera Battle (The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker)
Village of the Blue Maiden (The Legend of Zelda: Four Sword Adventures
Main Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
The Hidden Village (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)
Midna's Lament (The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess)


Smash 4 Tracks:
Overworld Theme (The Legend of Zelda)
The Legend of Zelda Medley (The Legend of Zelda)
Main Theme / Underworld Theme (The Legend of Zelda)

Overworld Theme (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)
Dark World / Dark World Dungeon (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past)
Hyrule Field Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
Saria's Song / Middle Boss Battle (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
Gerudo Valley (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time)
The Great Sea / Menu Select (The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker)
Full Steam Ahead! (The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks)

Ballad of the Goddess (The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword)
Ballad of the Goddess / Ghirahim's Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword)
Lorule Main Theme (The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds)
Yuga Battle (Hyrule Castle) (The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds)
Hyrule Main Theme (The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds)

Ultimate Tracks:
Termina Field (The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask)
Title Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes)
Main Theme (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)




As you can see, we have a lot of tracks.

Even then. I don't think its enough. Unless each stage has less tracks, I don't think we have enough tracks to fit on each stage.

So, I ask you two questions.

1. Which Zelda tracks do you think will go on each stage?
2. Which new Zelda tracks do you see being added?
Music? I'm gonna riot if Road Taken and Alight are not in the game now that Corrin's in base roster.
Bonus:
 

Cosmic77

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Speaking of the Champions, they could definitely all be Assist Trophies.

Mipha acts like a Heart Container, healing you fully.
Revali grants you a temporary buff, either allowing you to jump higher or giving you an extra jump.
Daruk grants you a temporary buff too, making your Shield unbreakable until the effect wears off.
Urbosa casts Urbosa's fury, stunning everyone in range.

They could use the Magic activation animations from Breath of the Wild (e.g. Mipha and Revali twirling around you).
Unlikely for all of them to be ATs at this point. We already know 29 of the 50 or so ATs so far, and there's still quite a few old ATs that haven't been seen yet (Ashley, Kat and Ana, Isabelle, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, Shadow).

I think if I were to rank remaining potential Zelda characters for Smash, I'd go

Skull Kid >>>>>> Impa > Tetra > Urbosa > Revali > Daruk > Vaati > Toon characters > probably others Mipha > even more > Lana > Linkle
You rank Vaati, Tetra, and random Toon characters higher than Mipha?

C'mon now.
 

KMDP

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And Impa was a young warrior for the vast majority of skyward sword lmao.
Due to time travel shenanigans (almost mispelled it "shenaningens", damn Zamasu), Impa was simultaneously an old woman and a young woman throughout the entirety of Skyward Sword.

Chekov's Impa.

Unlikely for all of them to be ATs at this point. We already know 29 of the 50 or so ATs so far, and there's still quite a few old ATs that haven't been seen yet (Ashley, Kat and Ana, Isabelle, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, Shadow).
Worst comes to the worst, they could all be one Assist trophy.


You rank Vaati, Tetra, and random Toon characters higher than Mipha?

C'mon now.
To be fair, Mipha is a healer, not a fighter.
 
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Jetsurge

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Remake of an old game or not it's still a main game, better than anything f-zero has :troll:

And Impa was a young warrior for the vast majority of skyward sword lmao.

Smash has almost always focused on characters that were relevant, that's really nothing new
But this game is different. The roster was made right after the ballot and the only relevant characters at the time that weren't in were Inkling, Bandanna Dee and Elma. The majority of the newcomers in this game are going to be heavily requested characters.
 
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Zeox

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Remake of an old game or not it's still a main game, better than anything f-zero has :troll:

And Impa was a young warrior for the vast majority of skyward sword lmao.

Smash has almost always focused on characters that were relevant, that's really nothing new
Yeah, like Pit in Brawl... oh wait, that was 3 years before they decided to revive the kid icarus franchise.
or any of the NES reps has always being very relevant, like the ice climbers or Mr. Game and Watch.
Or Daisy, last time she was relevant was in super mario Land, after that she has been a spin off character.
 

Cutie Gwen

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But this game is different. The roster was made right after the ballot and the only relevant characters at the time that weren't in were Inkling, Bandanna Dee and Elma. The majority of the newcomers in this game are going to be heavily requested characters.
You're right, the majority of newcomers are going to be heavily requested characters, relevancy be damned! Which is why we got Inkling! And Ridley, who was in the same boat as Miis, Pac-Man and Villager alongside appearing in Samus Returns and being the second most important in his franchise! And Daisy who was made to be a low effort clone!
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Yeah, like Pit in Brawl... oh wait, that was 3 years before they decided to revive the kid icarus franchise.
or any of the NES reps has always being very relevant, like the ice climbers or Mr. Game and Watch.
Or Daisy, last time she was relevant was in super mario Land, after that she has been a spin off character.
Retro characters are always different, they're chosen because they're old and not relevant.

Daisy is still technically relevant even if it's just spin-offs, there's nothing that says spin-offs can't count, also she's an easy clone
 
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Cosmic77

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But this game is different. The roster was made right after the ballot and the only relevant characters at the time that weren't in were Inkling, Bandanna Dee and Elma. The majority of the newcomers in this game are going to be heavily requested characters.
Well, so far relevancy is still a factor in deciding the newcomers.

Inklings debuted in 2014 and became extremely relevant ever since.
Daisy's relevancy is immortal and never dies.
Ridley wasn't very active until Samus Returns, but I think his Pyrosphere push in Smash 4 should count towards his relevancy.

Sakurai tries to accommodate all types of Smash players, and that's why he looks at relevancy too and not just the demands from longtime Smash fans. Truth be told, the average Nintendo noob would probably care more about Daisy than Geno, and that's because he's likely more familiar with the former.
 
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KMDP

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Hmm, speaking of requests. I wonder what each subsequent Smash Bros. had looked like had the character requests (the possible character requests) for Melee, Brawl and 4 come from America/Europe instead of Japan.

An interesting thought experiment indeed.
 
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Iridium

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I found this on Reddit. This is arguably the ultimate hint for any new game. Sakurai is such a trickster, and I admire that!
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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I think if I were to rank remaining potential Zelda characters for Smash, I'd go


Skull Kid >>>>>> Impa > Tetra > Urbosa > Revali > Daruk > Vaati > Toon characters > probably others Mipha > even more > Lana > Linkle
Is this ranking in likelihood? If so Imoa defintely should be bumped up because her chances as an echo fighter. If it's just what you want, then 100% agree you got a great like top 5!
Unlikely for all of them to be ATs at this point. We already know 29 of the 50 or so ATs so far, and there's still quite a few old ATs that haven't been seen yet (Ashley, Kat and Ana, Isabelle, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, Shadow).
I was thinking of this earlier...did Sakurai say around 50 or above 50. Because above 50 could be like 75 in which case who knows how many are left. I'm gunna go check the direct again, so much stuff gets misquoted or misunderstood from it.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Hmm, speaking of requests. I wonder what each subsequent Smash Bros. had looked like had the character requests (the possible character requests) for Melee, Brawl and 4 come from America/Europe instead of Japan.

An interesting thought experiment indeed.
Well 4 did keep an eye on western requests too I'd say. Japan had no clue who Little Mac was after all, and the other Western character, Ridley, was a character that they knew about, but simply weren't too familiar with
 
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I wonder how people will react when a Zelda newcomer inevitably doesn't happen.
 

Cosmic77

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I was thinking of this earlier...did Sakurai say around 50 or above 50. Because above 50 could be like 75 in which case who knows how many are left. I'm gunna go check the direct again, so much stuff gets misquoted or misunderstood from it.
He said there were more than 50 ATs, suggesting that there are 50-59 ATs altogether. I doubt it's anything higher than that. Otherwise, he likely would've claimed that there were "more than 60" or "more than 70".

This up with the difference we saw between Brawl and Smash 4's number of ATs. I'd say we've seen more than half of the ATs by now.

I wonder how people will react when a Zelda newcomer inevitably doesn't happen.
Don't jump the gun just yet. If I recall, a certain someone told me several months ago that Ridley definitely wouldn't be getting in Smash. ;)
 
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Cutie Gwen

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He said there were more than 50 ATs, suggesting that there are 50-59 ATs altogether. I doubt it's anything higher than that. Otherwise, he likely would've claimed that there were "more than 60" or "more than 70".

This up with the difference we saw between Brawl and Smash 4's number of ATs. I'd say we've seen more than half of the ATs by now.



Don't jump the gun just yet. If I recall, a certain someone told me several months ago that Ridley definitely wouldn't get in Smash. ;)
Well tbf 50 is a more enticing number than 60 or 70. Otherwise the site would count the Pokemon, Miis and Echoes separately and boast "OVER 70 CHARACTERS!"
 

NintenRob

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Unlikely for all of them to be ATs at this point. We already know 29 of the 50 or so ATs so far, and there's still quite a few old ATs that haven't been seen yet (Ashley, Kat and Ana, Isabelle, Skull Kid, Dark Samus, Shadow).



You rank Vaati, Tetra, and random Toon characters higher than Mipha?

C'mon now.
Is this ranking in likelihood? If so Imoa defintely should be bumped up because her chances as an echo fighter. If it's just what you want, then 100% agree you got a great like top 5!

I was thinking of this earlier...did Sakurai say around 50 or above 50. Because above 50 could be like 75 in which case who knows how many are left. I'm gunna go check the direct again, so much stuff gets misquoted or misunderstood from it.
Nah, it's just who I want. I kinda hated Mipha so she's naturally very low.

Probably should have specified that part.
 

KMDP

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I wonder how people will react when a Zelda newcomer inevitably doesn't happen.
With heaps and heaps of salt, as always.
And so, tomorrow's preview:

Otacon: I've heard that he also has a coconut gun, but I'm surprised he doesn't use it here.

Next up, as requested: :ultdk:
Glad I sparked inspiration in you. :laugh:
Don't use this, but... (I mean, you can..)
Otacon: "A co-co-nut gun"
Snake: Why are you saying it weird?
Otacon: What?
Snake: Coconut Gun. You're saying it weird.
 
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Cosmic77

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Well tbf 50 is a more enticing number than 60 or 70. Otherwise the site would count the Pokemon, Miis and Echoes separately and boast "OVER 70 CHARACTERS!"
Personally, if I had made 63 ATs for Smash, I'd want to say, "OVER 60 ASSIST TROPHIES!" Bigger is better, and I don't see much of a reason to hide 10-20 ATs for no reason. If anything, I'd go out of my way to clarify how many ATs there are just so people would know how much of a difference there is in numbers between Smash games.

Wanna bet?
Sure, why not. We haven't gotten a unique Zelda character since Melee, and I'm feeling confident that this will be the time for someone new.
 

Spatman

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*Sniffs shoe* Well, since it looks like I'm off the hook for my last bet (As long as Simon doesn't get in), I'm feeling gutsy.

How much you wanna bet?? :)
I don't bet for philosophical reasons, but if I did, I'd bet even 100$ that K Rool will be in!
 

RouffWestie

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We get Link reworked to represent Breath of the Wild, Zelda changed to her Link to the Past & Link Between Worlds appearance, Ganondorf changed to his Ocarina of Time appearance and gets new Smash attacks to further differentiate him from Captain Falcon, Young Link returning, and people still need aren't satisfied?
 

AlphaSSB

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With Zelda newcomers, there's a few with decent chances. Impa, Urbosa, Mipha, Skull Kid, and Tetra each have their merits and moveset potential.

However, I think the most likely one if Impa, and specifically as an 'Echo' of Sheik. With the Zelda cast sporting designs from various different designs, I think that opens the door for Impa to appear in her Skyward Sword design. Combined with reasonable demand for a Zelda newcomer, and Impa's moderate popularity, I think seeing Impa as a Sheik Echo is likely. Not very likely, but likely.
 
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Sure, why not. We haven't gotten a unique Zelda character since Melee, and I'm feeling confident that this will be the time for someone new.
Unique means not Echoes, right? If so, I'm in.
If we get a Zelda character that isn't an Echo, I'll switch to a different avatar until the end of the month of the announcement. What about you?
 

MoonlitIllusion

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We get Link reworked to represent Breath of the Wild, Zelda changed to her Link to the Past & Link Between Worlds appearance, Ganondorf changed to his Ocarina of Time appearance and gets new Smash attacks to further differentiate him from Captain Falcon, Young Link returning, and people still need aren't satisfied?
Yes because all 3 are still effectively the same outside of a new appearance, buffs and ganondorf's 3 new attacks that are ripped from Ike and Cloud, we want a newcomer
 
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D

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We get Link reworked to represent Breath of the Wild, Zelda changed to her Link to the Past & Link Between Worlds appearance, Ganondorf changed to his Ocarina of Time appearance and gets new Smash attacks to further differentiate him from Captain Falcon, Young Link returning, and people still need aren't satisfied?
They never will be.
That's the Smash Fanbase™ for ya.
 

True Blue Warrior

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In terms of recency, I doubt Samus Returns would have had an impact on Ridley's inclusion back in December 2015-mid 2016 if Tropical Freeze didn't help Dixie get into Smash 4. Ridley's last major appearance at the time the roster for Ultimate would have been finalised would have been in a 2010 game.
 

Cutie Gwen

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In terms of recency, I doubt Samus Returns would have had an impact on Ridley's inclusion back in December 2015-mid 2016 if Tropical Freeze didn't help Dixie get into Smash 4. Ridley's last major appearance at the time the roster for Ultimate would have been finalised would have been in a 2010 game.
We know Sakurai gets a look at the games beforehand and Zero Suit Samus's concept art from Samus Returns simply cannot be shrugged off as a coincidence imo. Though Dixie isn't the second most important character of the franchise she's in, that's Diddy
 

Cosmic77

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Unique means not Echoes, right? If so, I'm in.
If we get a Zelda character that isn't an Echo, I'll switch to a different avatar until the end of the month of the announcement. What about you?
I guess I'll do the same. We already have three semi-clones in the Zelda series, so I'm feeling confident about a lack of Echo fighters as well.

Yes because all 3 are still effectively the same outside of a new appearance, buffs and ganondorf's 3 new attacks that are ripped from Ike and Cloud, we want a newcomer
Thank you! Giving a few characters a makeover and bringing back an old clone is not nearly as impressive as an brand new character.

Seriously, Zelda fans aren't being selfish here. I don't think it's ungrateful to want a new character from Nintendo's third-largest franchise.
 

NintenRob

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Honestly, despite my most wanted being Skull Kid and me probably getting my hopes up too high for him, I'm actually already pretty satisfied with the Zelda representation.

I got my Favourite Link back from Melee. The Link who was in my favourite Zelda game. The legendary Hero of Time!

I got my favourite Ganondorf in the game based more accurately on Oot now in glorious HD for the first time. And no that weird polygonal mess in Hyrule Warriors does not count.

I got what is now my favourite Zelda. She's blonde again which is how I grew up with her and now she has the cutest smile and and even more elegant design (probably thanks to the cape)

And HOLY JEEBUS THOSE STAGES! There's so many of them!!!!! This was just incredible! And we already have a new one to boot
 

Zeox

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There will be no new Zelda reps, and no new Pokemon reps, and no new fire emblem reps...
In fact, the only new reps will be a bunch of jurassic park dinosaurs, like 10 or 20 dinos, and that's it, that's all the new characters for this new smash.
Can't wait for the T-Rex trailer where 2 of them fight to eat mario and they split him in two in a super graphic and gory way.
 
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I guess I'll do the same. We already have three semi-clones in the Zelda series, so I'm feeling confident about a lack of Echo fighters as well.
I'm gonna add a little reminder on my signature. I hope you're ready to eat that crow.
 

KMDP

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Honestly, despite my most wanted being Skull Kid and me probably getting my hopes up too high for him, I'm actually already pretty satisfied with the Zelda representation.
Maybe if we magic hard enough Skull Kid will come

*reverb* YAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! *reverb*

...

Ah crap, now the moon's falling. Whoops. My bad, guys.

And HOLY JEEBUS THOSE STAGES! There's so many of them!!!!! This was just incredible! And we already have a new one to boot
Too few people respect the fact that, if a series doesn't have many characters, they usually have a lot of stages to compensate. (There are exceptions, obviously.)
 
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TMNTSSB4

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Also wasn't Pit a rather popular request for a newcomer back then? I remember hearing that but I'm not sure on any details
Don’t Know
Don’t Care
All that matters is that one of the most powerful Nintendo heroes continues to fight and skip school inside of Smash
We get Link reworked to represent Breath of the Wild, Zelda changed to her Link to the Past & Link Between Worlds appearance, Ganondorf changed to his Ocarina of Time appearance and gets new Smash attacks to further differentiate him from Captain Falcon, Young Link returning, and people still need aren't satisfied?
Well...yeah
Yeah, like Pit in Brawl... oh wait, that was 3 years before they decided to revive the kid icarus franchise.
or any of the NES reps has always being very relevant, like the ice climbers or Mr. Game and Watch.
Or Daisy, last time she was relevant was in super mario Land, after that she has been a spin off character.
4 years...cause 2008-2012 (dates not included), and Daisy has always been relevant, just not to the main Mario games (only the series overall)
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Lately, I've been trying to think up a Palutena's Guidance concept for one of the returning fighters. I may have one idea in mind...

:ultpichu:Pichu
  • Viridi: Wow, what a cutie!!
  • Pit: Something seems off about that Pikachu...
  • Viridi: It's actually a Pichu, Pikachu's pre-evolved form. Just looking at it makes you not want to hurt it.
  • Palutena: But don't let its cute appearance fool you Pit. Pichu may be short and very lightweight, but it's very dangerous if you're not careful.
  • Pit: I've dealt with Pikachu's electricity before. I don't see how Pichu's electricity can be worse.
  • Viridi: If you get shocked by it, you'll definitely feel the difference.
  • Palutena: You see Pit, Pichu is not very experienced with storing electricity. When it unleashes its electric attacks, they're going to pack a greater punch than what you'd get from Pikachu.
  • Pit: Okay, so maybe it's not so harmless after all...
  • Viridi: However, Pichu also damages itself during the process. If it's too careless with its electricity, that could take a huge toll on its endurance.
  • Palutena: The best option for victory is to bait Pichu into using its electricity. By making it hurt itself, it'll become easier for you to finish it off.
  • Viridi: Also, be wary of Pichu's speed. It's quick at escaping from danger, so you'll have to chase it down as well.
  • Pit: I think I've got it. Guess I'll just have to hope that Pichu's bark is worse than its jolt.
 
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Jetsurge

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Well, so far relevancy is still a factor in deciding the newcomers.

Inklings debuted in 2014 and became extremely relevant ever since.
Daisy's relevancy is immortal and never dies.
Ridley wasn't very active until Samus Returns, but I think his Pyrosphere push in Smash 4 should count towards his relevancy.

Sakurai tries to accommodate all types of Smash players, and that's why he looks at relevancy too and not just the demands from longtime Smash fans. Truth be told, the average Nintendo noob would probably care more about Daisy than Geno, and that's because he's likely more familiar with the former.
It doesn't matter if the average Nintendo noob doesn't know. One of the best parts of Smash when I was a kid was discovering characters that I didn't know for the first time in the game.
 
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