Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jetsurge]

Indeed, just like Toon Link was on the Spirit Train stage.

Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

 

[Shroob]

Toon Link was also on the Spirit Train stage as well. And still playable.

If anything, he'd just be removed if Tails was currently played as on the field.

Albeit, I would prefer Shadow, but this doesn't mean anything for Tails at this time due to the fact that playable characters can be background cameos too. Stage Hazards, on the other hand, have so far been not playable, period.

Uhhhh....

 

[BlondeLombax]

Toon Link was also on the Spirit Train stage as well. And still playable.

If anything, he'd just be removed if Tails was currently played as on the field.

Albeit, I would prefer Shadow, but this doesn't mean anything for Tails at this time due to the fact that playable characters can be background cameos too. Stage Hazards, on the other hand, have so far been not playable, period.

Similar things have happened in the past as well, such as with Dedede in Dream Land 64. I would imagine that if Planet Zebes 64 were to come back, the Ridley flying in the background would only show up if Ridley himself were out of the picture.

Speaking of which, if Pyrosphere returns, I think that the two Ridleys can both be present at once, y'know, since one of them's a literal clone (still crossing my fingers for an event that lets them fight).

 

[Hinata]

Albeit, I would prefer Shadow, but this doesn't mean anything for Tails at this time due to the fact that playable characters can be background cameos too. Stage Hazards, on the other hand, have so far been not playable, period.

Shadow would be cool, but only if he's not an Echo. I wouldn't want another character to get their potential shafted just because it's quick to stick 'em with someone else's moveset.

*cough, cough* *cough, cough*

 

[Fenriraga]

Modern Tails can't fight, he just cries out for Sonic.

Oh no, Sonic is literally being beaten to death, let me pull out my Leapster and provide a uselss analysis that nobody asked for. That's what Tails is known for, right?

I like this idea.


SONIC! HELP ME!

Meanwhile, in the new comics taking place right after Forces...

... Seriously, can we just put Ian Flynn in charge of everything Sonic ever?

 

[Zinith]

Gonna go to bed earlier than usual. Let's hope new info comes sooner than we expect. Goodnight!!!

 

[Hinata]

Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

When Tails joins the battle, Alfonzo is in charge of running at supersonic speeds through a perfect loop.

Alfonzo: "Leave it to me!"

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Ok guys, get ready to put your tinfoil hats on because it's time for a ridiculous and probably not true theory. Even though I think it's nothing I wanted to put it out there anyway.

Ok, originally Knuckles was supposed to be a background character on Green Hill like normal and that would be the extent of his role in the game. However, somewhat later in development it was decided that Shadow would not be an AT and become an echo or maybe not an echo but clone character of Sonic similar to how Doc, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added late in Smash 4's development. The team still wanted to have an AT for the Sonic series though, so Knuckles was made the new Sonic AT yet remained on the Green Hill stage.

But that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY!

 

[KMDP]

Meanwhile, in the new comics taking place right after Forces...

... Seriously, can we just put Ian Flynn in charge of everything Sonic ever?

Tails: SONIC! HELP ME!
Sonic: Help yourself, Pixel Brain.

Ah, "Sonic the Comic" Sonic, such a Jerk to Tails.

 

[Will]

I'd still prefer Eggman as a rep rather than anyone else in Sonic, I love the man too much and with the potential of that mech from Sonic Adventure I'd be slapping the Nut button all the day long. also busting out a new sig wew

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's not too far-fetched. I have a similar idea on that too. Who do you see getting in, though? I have a few ideas concerning the list, if we're going by fan demand and recent releases.

Originals: K. Rool, Isaac, Wonder Red, Elma, a Gen IV Pokemon, Simon Belmont, Geno, & a Ubisoft Rep
Semi-clones: Dixie and Tails
Echoes: Funky Kong, Dark Samus, Chrom, & Agent 8 (PLEASE)

I tried to make the list as realistically as I could, but there's never telling who's in or out, so we'll just have to see what the folks at SORA have in store.

Most likely Originals:

• King K. Rool: Been requested a long time and his popularity has definitely been acknowledged recently.
• Mimikyu: Arguably the most popular, Anime prominent, and promoted Pokemon of Gen 7.
• Rex: His game has been in development as early as 2014.
• Rhythm Heaven Troupe: I wanted to say I have my doubts about a RH character, but seeing as plans for SSBU were as early as 2015 and Punch-Out was dormant for 5 years by SSB4's release, it's definitely not too out there.
• Excitebike: 9th best selling NES game, pretty much the only retro left, and the temperature meter provides a unique system. I mean, not to mention riding a bike already makes him a unique fighter.
• Simon: Castlevania is one of the most iconic third parties on Nintendo, and Simon one of the most iconic video game characters ever.

Echo Fighters

• Dry Bowser: Easy to create and a popular form of Bowser, appearing a lot in mainstream titles.
• Impa: Also easy to create from Sheik and has a respectable following in the Smash fanbase.
• Octoling: Easy to create from Inkling and Splatoon is a popular IP.

I sure hope Geno doesn't happen. I really don't want characters for the sole purpose of fan service. I feel like the characters should have actual merits. I'd be fine with him as DLC, but if he was in the base game, that would be pretty disappointing.

Golden Sun getting a character is just a fantasy at this point. And I don't think the recent relationship between Nintendo and Ubisoft has ANY bearing on the chances of a Ubisoft character getting in.

I should also point out that a lot of the characters you described don't qualify as Echo Fighters. Echo Fighters are characters that are nearly identical to the base fighter. That's why Dr. Mario and Pichu are not identified as Echo Fighters. Dark Samus doesn't actually really share any abilities with Samus, Funky Kong definitely wouldn't work without the surf board, and Lucina was chosen over Chrom for a reason.

And as I stated, Tails was confirmed to be in the Green Hill Zone stage.

Also, did you mean to say Gen 4?

 

[Blargg888]

If Super Smash Bros Ultimate gets a story mode, it should just be a retelling of Brawl's story mode, except the whole thing is horrifically depressing.

We'll call it the Sobspace Emissary.

 

[KMDP]

I'd still prefer Eggman as a rep rather than anyone else in Sonic, I love the man too much and with the potential of that mech from Sonic Adventure I'd be slapping the Nut button all the day long. also busting out a new sig wew

Ohohohoho- cough cough...!

EGGMAN
Fries the Battlefield!​

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uhhhh....

He's playable in a game yet not confirmed as a Stage Hazard. Yeah, I said that a little poorly, heh. I meant in a game so far, a stage hazard has never been playable. Though do note that 75m is only a technical exception(both due to Donkey Kong's sprite not being the same person as playable DK, and the fact it's a sprite not being confused with a model. On the other hand, sprites of characters do get removed if they're just a background element as shown by King Dedede. Methinks it's not a consistent factor.

Shadow would be cool, but only if he's not an Echo. I wouldn't want another character to get their potential shafted just because it's quick to stick 'em with someone else's moveset.

*cough, cough* *cough, cough*

I'm okay with Shadow as an echo myself. The most important part is the Chaos aesthetics. I can only hope for more references to his own game, including music, but... doubt much. A lot of the music is vocals, so licensing and all. Then again, Crush 40 coming back for more songs is believable.

Similar things have happened in the past as well, such as with Dedede in Dream Land 64. I would imagine that if Planet Zebes 64 were to come back, the Ridley flying in the background would only show up if Ridley himself were out of the picture.

Speaking of which, if Pyrosphere returns, I think that the two Ridleys can both be present at once, y'know, since one of them's a literal clone (still crossing my fingers for an event that lets them fight).

The clone thing might be irrelevant. However, having a character sprite as a hazard can sometimes be ignored(as shown with Donkey Kong in 75m), but it's kind of odd. It could go either way on Pyrosphere, if it returns.

 

[Idon]

Smash speculation on the disqualifications of a character are always so difficult.

Smash tradition is an enigma layered on contradiction layered on exception layered on misinformation layered on translation errors layered on Sakurai's ever-changing whims.

Honestly, if Sakurai sees enough reason to make something happen, his team will probably devote the time to doing it later, but seeing as he's already stated not to expect too many newcomers I think we should all tame our expectations.

 

[P.Kat]

I want a Mania stage (Studiopolis) so badly, but they'd probably go for a Forces stage...blah.

Objection!!!*walks in with suit and tie* Whoa, whoa, whoa lets not get to hasty here. Any reason to hear 'Moonlight Battlefield' (from the Aqua Road Stage) in Forces is a good reason even if that means a Forces stage.

Spoiler: Moonlight Battlefield

However, they go for stages from Sonic Colors instead (cause any reason to hear Aquarium Park Act 1 and 2 is the best reason), then I'm all for that

Spoiler: Aquarium Park Act 1 and 2

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Gonna go to bed earlier than usual. Let's hope new info comes sooner than we expect. Goodnight!!!

Same except I'm going to bed because work in the morning.

Take care chat.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

 

[Will]

Excitebike: 9th best selling NES game, pretty much the only retro left, and the temperature meter provides a unique system. I mean, not to mention riding a bike already makes him a unique fighter.

*cries in Mach Rider*

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Smash speculation on the disqualifications of a character are always so difficult.

Smash tradition is an enigma layered on contradiction layered on exception layered on misinformation layered on translation errors layered on Sakurai's ever-changing whims.

Honestly, if Sakurai sees enough reason to make something happen, his team will probably devote the time to doing it later, but seeing as he's already stated not to expect too many newcomers I think we should all tame our expectations.

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call...Super Smash Bros. Speculation.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Didnt Sakurai reuse several different fighters animation for Wolf's moveset cause time constraints?

What are the chances he could do that for an echo fighter like shadow, give Mewtwo teleport or Bayo witch time but with chaos control painted over

 

[Fenriraga]

I mentioned this before, but unless they're an Echo, I don't think any character in the entire Sonic series deserves to be playable in Smash that isn't Tails.

That would be like if Wario got in before Luigi. Which, to be fair, can be made as a fair argument in some cases, but I digress. Tails is the second most iconic and historically significant player 2 in gaming history. No one else deserves that spot. And I do not use the term "Deserves" very lightly in a game like Smash.

Even as a Sonic nut, I would be pretty P.O.'d if anyone other than Tails made it in as a second Sonic Rep. Again, unless they were an echo. Obviously, I'd live, but I'd have words.

 

[Will]

I'd prefer Shadow to not be an Echo, but if Sakurai thinks it's worth it, then it's his call. A semi-clone would be more preferable, because the homing attack is still a staple of the hedgehogs am I the only one who hears the HUTT from SA2 when i think about it and some of the moves can easily be shared no problem (Sonics B-Air and D-Air come to mind). Just my opinion though.

 

[KMDP]

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

I like the idea that there are three levels of Clonage:

Semi-Clone (e.g. Luigi, Young Link/Toon Link, Wolf)
Clone (e.g. Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy)
Echo (e.g. Daisy, Lucina, Dark Pit)

 

[Shroob]

Didnt Sakurai reuse several different fighters animation for Wolf's moveset cause time constraints?

What are the chances he could do that for an echo fighter like shadow, give Mewtwo teleport or Bayo witch time but with chaos control painted over

Then he wouldn't be an echo fighter, he'd be a semi clone.

Echo fighters are 1:1 clones.

 

[Will]

I mentioned this before, but unless they're an Echo, I don't think any character in the entire Sonic series deserves to be playable in Smash that isn't Tails.

I've done enough E.G.G.M.A.N. ****posting for one day. You can have this one.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

...Unless Sakurai wills it, of course.

 

[Blargg888]

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario and Pichu are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

Wait, what? How did you come to that conclusion?
It's not impossible for Shadow to be an echo fighter.
That's not to say that I expect Shadow to be in SSBU, because I don't, but I don't really see how you came to that conclusion via that evidence.

 

[KMDP]

If Eggman were in the game, I feel this should be his trailer music.

EDIT: Heh... this was my 200th post. Of course, it'd be Sonic-related.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly wouldn't be mad if they added more Sonic characters to smash, Tails and Knuckles are extremely iconic characters in their own right and their inclusions would feel more than justified, and having shadow as an echo/clone would make sense on top of them.

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

Yeah I wouldn't really expect more clones that aren't echoes, when they've already established this echo fighter thing it would be weird to go back and add more regular clones.

 

[Fenriraga]

I've done enough E.G.G.M.A.N. ****posting for one day. You can have this one.

Eggman would barely get a pass from me. And angry murmur, if you will. I could at least see some logic there.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

He's playable in a game yet not confirmed as a Stage Hazard. Yeah, I said that a little poorly, heh. I meant in a game so far, a stage hazard has never been playable. Though do note that 75m is only a technical exception(both due to Donkey Kong's sprite not being the same person as playable DK, and the fact it's a sprite not being confused with a model. On the other hand, sprites of characters do get removed if they're just a background element as shown by King Dedede. Methinks it's not a consistent factor.


I'm okay with Shadow as an echo myself. The most important part is the Chaos aesthetics. I can only hope for more references to his own game, including music, but... doubt much. A lot of the music is vocals, so licensing and all. Then again, Crush 40 coming back for more songs is believable.


The clone thing might be irrelevant. However, having a character sprite as a hazard can sometimes be ignored(as shown with Donkey Kong in 75m), but it's kind of odd. It could go either way on Pyrosphere, if it returns.

There is also the 8-Bit Duck Hunt Dog on the Duck Hunt stage.

I use the term "Echo Fighter" for all "clones" because it's a more respectable term, but I really think the difference should be established because a lot of people don't seem to understand.

If you actually go on to the website, the only characters with epsilon symbols are Daisy, Lucina, and Dark Pit. So if Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Wolf are not "Echo Fighters", then there's no way Shadow would be.

All they would really need to do is change his running and idle animations. Shadow could copy all of Sonic's moves, and it would work fine.

 

[Hinata]

Eggman would barely get a pass from me. And angry murmur, if you will. I could at least see some logic there.

If Eggman got in with a moveset based on his mech from SA2, you wouldn't see me complaining.

However, it's scary to think that the same thing could theoretically happen to Tails.

 

[Fenriraga]

Also, just need to say, all the people saying making Shadow an Echo to Sonic would "Undermine him as a character" should really take that complaint up with Sonic Team before Sakurai.

Because the vast majority of Shadow's playable appearances have had him as a 1-1 Sonic clone. Adventure 2, Heroes, Forces, the spin offs...

The only times he's been remotely unique in a playable role is his own game (Which, even still, just has him play the exact same as Sonic but with a gun and his chaos powers being reduced to level skipping and explosions) and 06 (Which I admittedly digged his concept in that game, despite it obviously being executed horridly).

So honestly, it would be more befitting for him to be a Sonic Echo than people think.

 

[KMDP]

However, it's scary to think that the same thing could theoretically happen to Tails.

I dunno, it could get us "Rumbling HWY... For Mission Street"...

...Wait, what am I saying? I don't want Tails in a Mech!

The only times he's been remotely unique in a playable role is his own game (Which, even still, just has him play as Sonic with a gun and his chaos powers being reduced to level skipping and explosions) and 06 (Which I admittedly digged his concept in that game, despite it obviously being executed horridly).

Don't forget Sonic Battle, where he was the most different from Sonic (not that it diminishes your point any).

 

[Will]

The reason I like the idea of Eggman so much for Smash is several things:

1. I think he's just as "iconic" if not more than the already suggested ones (Tails/Shadow)
2. The main antagonist of the series, big boy villain demanders get a payoff
3. Sick themes, sick robots, and I adore how the English VA portrays him
4. Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings didn't sell me completely on the mech character. Eggman can easily flesh that out by using the playable design we got from SA2, or they could merge his original trilogy (+ Mania) vehicles into one.
5. Final Smash where he blows you up with the ****ing moon via the Death Egg or bust

 

[Hinata]

should really take that complaint up with Sonic Team

I think those guys deal with enough complaints as it is.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Also, just need to say, all the people saying making Shadow an Echo to Sonic would "Undermine him as a character" should really take that complaint up with Sonic Team before Sakurai.

Because the vast majority of Shadow's playable appearances have had him as a 1-1 Sonic clone. Adventure 2, Heroes, Forces, the spin offs...

The only times he's been remotely unique in a playable role is his own game (Which, even still, just has him play the exact same as Sonic but with a gun and his chaos powers being reduced to level skipping and explosions) and 06 (Which I admittedly digged his concept in that game, despite it obviously being executed horridly).

So honestly, it would be more befitting for him to be a Sonic Echo than people think.

There's sonic battle too but tbh those powers were made up for that game for the sake of differentiating him from sonic, he's never really used anything like that again in his playable roles, he went right back to being a sonic clone in sonic heroes and shadow the hedgehog

 

[BlondeLombax]

Also, did you mean to say Gen 4?

Woopsie! My Roman Numeral knowledge has failed me yet again.
Yeah, that was meant to be Gen 7, be it Mimikyu, Decidueye, even the likes of Tapu Koko or Necrozma. It sprawls out like that.

 

[Fenriraga]

I think those guys deal with enough complaints as it is.

And frankly, they deserve most of them.