Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StrangeMann]

This thread has turned into a bunch of sociopaths oh my gosh.

Two people did something wrong. Taking out anything Waluigi, screwing over an entire fanbase? Not only is it petty and rude. It's like the equivalent to a teacher punishing an entire classroom for the actions of one student.

Some of y'all shouldn't have kids.

I agree, but there's people on both sides being overly hostile.
If it continues going this way, I feel like Waluigi topics are going to go the way of Ridley during the Brawl era or the end of the smash 4 era (as in the topic is forbidden), because it has to be a boon on the smashboards moderators having to deal with this due to excessive salt on both sides of the spectrum.
There was a guy earlier that Daisy shouldn't have been included because it was salt in the wound of Waluigi fans, giving no other reason.

 

[Murlough]

There was absolutely no reason to restrict their customs other than because people felt like it. Everybody knew it was an unfair ruling but nobody cared.

Yeah, what kind of jerk wants all characters to be subjected to the same rules in a competitive envirment! How DARE they?!

I completely agree that Miis should have been legal everywhere but no they should not be allowed to use customs, just cause. Theres literally no decent argument for it. "But you have to make them anyway." Who cares. Thats not an excuse to give them more options than every other character.

On a more positive note, I like what they seem to be doing with them in Ultimate. Hopefully, the customs are gone and people can legitimately main them.

 

[KingBroly]

I get the feeling Customs won't be a thing in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, what kind of jerk wants all characters to be subjected to the same rules in a competitive envirment! How DARE they?!

I completely agree that Miis should have been legal everywhere but no they should not be allowed to use customs, just cause. Theres literally no decent argument for it. "But you have to make them anyway." Who cares. Thats not an excuse to give them more options than every other character.

On a more positive note, I like what they seem to be doing with them in Ultimate. Hopefully, the customs are gone and people can legitimately main them.

Are they really customs when they had no defaults? 1111 isn't the same as default. They weren't designed with those in mind as a default.

 

[Will]

I get the feeling Customs won't be a thing in Smash Ultimate.

We'll have to wait until Sakurai either confirms or disconfirms it, Palutena has showned off some of her customs I believe but I may be wrong. I was honestly okay with Customs, added a fun casual twist to things. Customs (as in stat badges) were useful for Smash Run, but I don't know if they served any purpose in the Wii U version. Custom moves on the other hand seem fun, I wonder if there could be a type of For Glory where you used unboosted custom characters. More gimping with windboxes gets me giddy.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't like customs personally but I would've been fine with Miis having their customs as long as they had standardized size/speed/weight.

We'll have to wait until Sakurai either confirms or disconfirms it, Palutena has showned off some of her customs I believe but I may be wrong. I was honestly okay with Customs, added a fun casual twist to things. Customs (as in stat badges) were useful for Smash Run, but I don't know if they served any purpose in the Wii U version. Custom moves on the other hand seem fun, I wonder if there could be a type of For Glory where you used unboosted custom characters. More gimping with windboxes gets me giddy.

They replaced her base moveset moves that were previously custom. Side B is now Explosive Flame and down B is a hybrid counter/reflect.

 

[ErenJager]

If I was Sakurai during one of my Smash Directs, I would have a trailer where it looks like Waluigi is going to be playable... Right when the splash card pops up and says "Waluigi Makes the big time" it would cut to me holding a USB jump drive and i'd be like "Here's the remaining files of everything related to Waluigi - no other copies exist" then I'd smash it.

Then I'd tell the audience they just witnessed my final smash.

then go back to the trailer and reveal a character far less deserving then Walugi.

 

[Idon]

Now that Palutena has her reflector tied to her counter and her explosive flare tied to her side B in its absence, I very much doubt customs are making a return, if at least for the non-Mii Fighters.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I get the feeling Customs won't be a thing in Smash Ultimate.

Well, we know that Miis at least have their own menu because you need somewhere to assign voices, so there's a good chance that they'll still have moves, but I'm 99% sure that the explanation of Palutena's moveset confirms there are no custom moves other than possibly for Miis, because they referred to a singular moveset rather than saying she'd just have customs in the broader style or something.

 

[Opossum]

If I was Sakurai during one of my Smash Directs, I would have a trailer where it looks like Waluigi is going to be playable... Right when the splash card pops up and says "Waluigi Makes the big time" it would cut to me holding a USB jump drive and i'd be like "Here's the remaining files of everything related to Waluigi - no other copies exist" then I'd smash it.

Then I'd tell the audience they just witnessed my final smash.

then go back to the trailer and reveal a character far less deserving then Walugi.

Now you're just acting like an edgy toddler lol.

 

[Lyndis_]

Yeah, what kind of jerk wants all characters to be subjected to the same rules in a competitive envirment! How DARE they?!

I completely agree that Miis should have been legal everywhere but no they should not be allowed to use customs, just cause. Theres literally no decent argument for it. "But you have to make them anyway." Who cares. Thats not an excuse to give them more options than every other character.

On a more positive note, I like what they seem to be doing with them in Ultimate. Hopefully, the customs are gone and people can legitimately main them.

Every character has different options than every other character.

There was no good argument against it. Making a character uselessly restricted "just cause" who are all already the worst in the game makes no sense. It wasn't like you could switch customs in games and there were rules to prevent switching in-between matches (if necessary.)

There is absolutely no reason to continue the ruling with Smash Switch, especially now with Miis being allowed online.

 

[Will]

If I was Sakurai [really sociopathic event]

My dude it's a good thing you aren't Sakurai. That's all that needs to be said here. You made yourself so obviously grabbing for attention.

 

[Murlough]

Are they really customs when they had no defaults? 1111 isn't the same as default. They weren't designed with those in mind as a default.

That doesn't mean they should get customs. I'm sorry but all characters should be subjected to the exact same rules to be completely fair. Every other character has to use 1111 and the Miis shouldn't be the exception, "just cause."

Like the argument you are giving is basically "but Miis aren't good with 1111." Alot of low tiers would benefit from customs. So what we say screw those and just let Miis have customs? What fairness is that?

Every character should be subjected to the same ruleset. (Inb4 someone finds an exception to this and I cry myself to sleep at night again)

EDIT: L Lyndis I'm not doing this all day. I've played this song and dance with Mii supporters before and we aren't going to agree. Everything I've had to say is in this post. I have better things to do with my time then argue why favoritism is bs in a competitive envirnment.

"All characters have different options" yeah and so do Miis WITHOUT CUSTOMS. Being bad isn't a reason. Does Jigglypuff get customs? Where do we draw this line?

Thats a rhetorical question because once again we aren't going to agree and Blazblue is calling my name.

 

[Bowserlick]

If you're a Waluigi fan voice your desire for your character in a positive way.

Worked for Ridley

Still could (possibly) happen. DLC patch can take Waluigi out of AT rotation and include him as character.

 

[Deleted member]

If I was Sakurai during one of my Smash Directs, I would have a trailer where it looks like Waluigi is going to be playable... Right when the splash card pops up and says "Waluigi Makes the big time" it would cut to me holding a USB jump drive and i'd be like "Here's the remaining files of everything related to Waluigi - no other copies exist" then I'd smash it.

Then I'd tell the audience they just witnessed my final smash.

then go back to the trailer and reveal a character far less deserving then Walugi.

Did you actually read all of the replies people sent you?

 

[Will]

If you're a Waluigi fan voice your desire for your character in a positive way.

Worked for Ridley

Still could (possibly) happen. DLC patch can take Waluigi out of AT rotation and include him as character.

This whole mess will blow over in another day or two. Just add it to the list of ones that have happened in the past.

 

[ErenJager]

And If you ya'll can't pick up the extreme satire ya'll need to get out more.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

If I was Sakurai during one of my Smash Directs, I would have a trailer where it looks like Waluigi is going to be playable... Right when the splash card pops up and says "Waluigi Makes the big time" it would cut to me holding a USB jump drive and i'd be like "Here's the remaining files of everything related to Waluigi - no other copies exist" then I'd smash it.

Then I'd tell the audience they just witnessed my final smash.

then go back to the trailer and reveal a character far less deserving then Walugi.

Nah, here's what would happen. You'd pitch the trailer to a Nintendo executive, they'd laugh in your face, then tell you to act like a professional or you'd be removed from the development team.

 

[Opossum]

That doesn't mean they should get customs. I'm sorry but all characters should be subjected to the exact same rules to be completely fair. Every other character has to use 1111 and the Miis shouldn't be the exception, "just cause."

Like the argument you are giving is basically "but Miis aren't good with 1111." Alot of low tiers would benefit from customs. So what we say screw those and just let Miis have customs? What fairness is that?

Every character should be subjected to the same ruleset. (Inb4 someone finds an exception to this and I cry myself to sleep at night again)

But that's just the thing. They aren't customs because the Miis didn't have defaults. 1111 is the default for other characters, but not for Miis. What you're suggesting is to change how Miis were built to make them fall in line with others. Pro-Free Mii people aren't making a special case for Miis. Anti-Free Mii people were. It'd be like locking Ryu out of his extra input-dependent moves because other characters don't have them.

 

[ErenJager]

Did you actually read all of the replies people sent you?

I saw people taking it seriously, so I ran with it.

I had to keep stepping it up a notch until it hit absolutely ridiculous but even then... even then.

So yeah

 

[Opossum]

And If you ya'll can't pick up the extreme satire ya'll need to get out more.

"No guys I swear I was just PRETENDING to say something dumb."

 

[Lyndis_]

That doesn't mean they should get customs. I'm sorry but all characters should be subjected to the exact same rules to be completely fair. Every other character has to use 1111 and the Miis shouldn't be the exception, "just cause."

Like the argument you are giving is basically "but Miis aren't good with 1111." Alot of low tiers would benefit from customs. So what we say screw those and just let Miis have customs? What fairness is that?

Every character should be subjected to the same ruleset. (Inb4 someone finds an exception to this and I cry myself to sleep at night again)

The reason custom moves weren't standardized don't apply to Miis at all, and aren't comparable. Custom Moves may not even be in this game, so what does it matter?

I just can't see how Miis being able to use moves they were designed around using 100% of the time in any mode hurts you or the scene in any way.

That's what matters. There's no point comparing it to other characters or customs with different situations. The quest is does it hurt you or the game in any way?

It's up to people to prove that it isn't okay in the game rather than others to prove it is. Your reasons essentially amount to "I don't like that Miis can do what this character can't" rather than if Miis doing it is inheritely unbalanced in any way.

 

[Will]

"extreme satire" It ain't even worth the quote now.

But that's just the thing. They aren't customs because the Miis didn't have defaults. 1111 is the default for other characters, but not for Miis. What you're suggesting is to change how Miis were built to make them fall in line with others. Pro-Free Mii people aren't making a special case for Miis. Anti-Free Mii people were. It'd be like locking Ryu out of his extra input-dependent moves because other characters don't have them.

I would've honestly preferred a Mii moveset that was just based off of their own games like Pilotwings Resort, Wii Sports, and so on. They were literally made to be an advertisement for Customs in Smash 4, I think.

 

[T-Hell]

As a Waluigi fan and lover I'm disgusted at this whole childish and pathetic mess. People sending Sakurai dark and threatening images over a videogame character and other people wishing he would remove everything involving him to punish them, even if that means punishing the sane fans. What in the blue world..

 

[StrangeMann]

And If you ya'll can't pick up the extreme satire ya'll need to get out more.

Here's the problem:
There's actually people who think that way about what you just posted.
I've seen and spoken to people who actually believe Sakurai should punish Waluigi fans, and there's no indicator that you were joking or that it was satire until the very end, so naturally people got upset. Please understand why people reacted that way.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

That doesn't mean they should get customs. I'm sorry but all characters should be subjected to the exact same rules to be completely fair. Every other character has to use 1111 and the Miis shouldn't be the exception, "just cause."

You are aware that many characters in the game have a unique mechanic or property associated with them, right? Even if you give them a choice of three for literally every move they have, they'll still only have access to one set at a time, unlike , who has access to three whole characters minus their down specials, or who has several extra standard attacks and a fifth special, along with 1-2 extra versions of 4 of his specials, which he has access to all in the same match.
To say nothing of
"Let's make everything the same so it's balanced" isn't good game design. You'd succeed in making things fair, but it wouldn't be interesting, and there are other ways of making things balanced than how Street Fighter 1 did it.

 

[ErenJager]

"No guys I swear I was just PRETENDING to say something dumb."

At a certain point - i thought someone woulda said to themselves - there's no way this guys serious - clearly he's joking.

I don't know if that's the impression I give off on these forums, I don't know what's more concerning that it was believable or people jumped to conclusions thinking it was real without considering that it was ... clearly a bad joke - .... since no one got it.

 

[Murlough]

But that's just the thing. They aren't customs because the Miis didn't have defaults. 1111 is the default for other characters, but not for Miis. What you're suggesting is to change how Miis were built to make them fall in line with others. Pro-Free Mii people aren't making a special case for Miis. Anti-Free Mii people were. It'd be like locking Ryu out of his extra input-dependent moves because other characters don't have them.

Final time: everyone else is stick with 1111. EVERYONE ELSE. Miis getting special treatment is not fair for every other character in the game.

No, it actually isn't anything remotely close to not allowing Ryu to use his special inputs. I can't believe I just read that from you.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

But that's just the thing. They aren't customs because the Miis didn't have defaults. 1111 is the default for other characters, but not for Miis. What you're suggesting is to change how Miis were built to make them fall in line with others. Pro-Free Mii people aren't making a special case for Miis. Anti-Free Mii people were. It'd be like locking Ryu out of his extra input-dependent moves because other characters don't have them.

I'm still checking because I was curious, but Mii's technically do have default Special moves. When playing Event Matches/Modes that involve mii's and not choosing to use customs, the Mii's will always have the same specials.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Mii_Fighter_(SSB4)

Sorry if I wind up being wrong! I just think it's an interesting conversation. Was there a reason custom moves were banned from all fighters?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Changing palutena's custom moves could just be a way to make her default moveset more viable, doesn't necessarily mean customs are gone

 

[Noipoi]

I just like Waluigi, I didn't want THIS...

 

[ErenJager]

Here's the problem:
There's actually people who think that way about what you just posted.
I've seen and spoken to people who actually believe Sakurai should punish Waluigi fans, and there's no indicator that you were joking or that it was satire until the very end, so naturally people got upset. Please understand why people reacted that way.

My initial thoughts was maybe I'd troll like one user and reply to him - but then like a bunch replied and I was like oh they're all idiots/ i'm the idiot cuz no ones getting it.

 

[Will]

I just like Waluigi, I didn't want THIS...

"THIS..." was a terrible joke that devolved into edgy bait. Let's just move on.

 

[Enderwoman]

Custom moves seem flat out dead this time around, and frankly I don't think anybody is gonna mind. With how many buffs the entire cast is getting it doesn't seem very necessary to introduce alternatives, and that would throw the game balance off. In Smash 4 they were generally a pretty underwhelming idea that never got any use, so the only characters who will probably have them are the Mii fighters. I will however, miss Lightweight and Angelic Missle on Palutena.

 

[Noipoi]

Honestly i barely used custom moves

 

[Lyndis_]

Final time: everyone else is stick with 1111. EVERYONE ELSE. Miis getting special treatment is not fair for every other character in the game.

No, it actually isn't anything remotely close to not allowing Ryu to use his special inputs. I can't believe I just read that from you.

Again. Do you have any reason for it not being fair other than because you don't like it?

Or rather, since fairness is so subjective and especially in a fighting game where some characters are inheritely more viable than others..

Do you have a reason, or proof, that it is unbalanced or gives a Mii player a significant advantage over, let's say, someone playing Mario?

Miis are a special case as their custom moves work regardless of the setting, and this "special treatment" is quite possibly the least important thing ever and doesn't say anything about the balance of the game other than how you feel about Miis using "customs" while no one else is. If it isn't about /competitive/ fairness, it doesn't hold any weight in a discussion about competitive ruling.

 

[Idon]

Balance aside, customs were just a pain in the posterior with 4.

Bring em back well or don't even bother in my opinion.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Also famously this;

I didn't even want Chrom and I felt bad.

Ironically I think this ended up actually helping his popularity. I never felt like people were that enthusiastic about Chrom compared to other FE characters, but it seems like the "Chrom lying on the ground" meme may have actually endeared him to more people.

 

[Hinata]

Honestly I'm on the fence about custom moves being removed. On one hand, they were a LOT of fun to **** around with. On the other hand, unlocking them was such a chore, I don't think I'd want to go through that again.

 

[Enderwoman]

Final time: everyone else is stick with 1111. EVERYONE ELSE. Miis getting special treatment is not fair for every other character in the game.

The Miis get special treatment because, comparatively, they're pretty special characters. Customization is their gimmick, and stripping them of an aspect of that is taking away their identity. Miis never really worked the same as other characters, they're not built in with "defaults" like the others. Besides, just because they might happen to get more moves doesn't neccesarily mean unabalanced, and honestly if Smash 4 is any indicator most of the moves won't even be getting any use in the competitive gameplay anyway so, like, it's not a big deal.