Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Troykv]

Some people like Fates.

I don't agree with them, but I don't judge.

Much.

Out loud.

...

Azura's character design was cool at least?

Yeah, her eyes are cute; and I like her outfit.

 

[staindgrey]

In 2021, they'll offer to combine all three games into one for the ultimate experience.

Spoiler: And they'll call it...

...

God damn it. Take your stupid like.

 

[SlickWylde]

I really doubt it. When Masahiro "The Man" Sakurai wants a character in Smash, he works a little of that patented Sora Ltd. magic and usually gets his hands on them.

To be fair, he's mentioned a bunch of characters that he wanted in certain games and wasn't able to make it possible.

 

[Troykv]

To be fair, he's mentioned a bunch of characters that he wanted in certain games and wasn't able to make it possible.

Time is Sakurai's worst enemy.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

To be fair, he's mentioned a bunch of characters that he wanted in certain games and wasn't able to make it possible.

Not when it comes to third party though.

 

[staindgrey]

Time is Sakurai's worst enemy.

Isn't it technically all of ours?

 

[Deleted member]

People kind of like the character already and were bummed out to see him as AT again (I mean, Waluigi has an always growing popularity thanks to how silly and funny he's, and how more people are embracing his insanity); but Daisy was the thing that triggered this Waluigi mad fanboys.... Yeah, I think you're right.

Bingo.

If Waluigi had been shown to be an Assist again alone, that wouldn't have been enough to start a whole "Justice for Waluigi" movement.
It was the fact that someone like Daisy (who is not unlike Waluigi) was announced as a character around the same time, even if it was only due to her similarities to Peach, that the memes about how he got "snubbed" really took off.

Likely because Daisy's reveal gave these rabid people hope that Waluigi wouldn't be far behind.

 

[StrangeMann]

My responses in italic. Honestly I kinda hope Nintendo don't listen too closely. Perhaps it is just me but I find that characters with extensive combo games are less fun and it's difficult to get hype about being someones punching bag.

There's also some other opinions of various things like characters and etc. But many of them weren't consensus.
-There's a few melee players who obviously think L-cancelling should return, but most top players (of both melee and smash 4) think the decreased aerial landing lag is enough and L-cancelling shouldn't return
-There's a consensus Ganon is a much better character than in smash 4 or brawl, but some still don't think he'll be good while others think that the lack of landing lag on his aerials might be oppressive into certain matchups.
-There's a consensus Ridley's Down B is a pretty good move (it lands on frame 29, less than half a second of startup, and you get a free stock off of landing it pretty much 100% of the time, like a disjointed version of rest). Some seem to think he'll be bad because his hurtboxes are easily abusable, others think that his side b and aerials are amazing and will make him at least pretty good on top of his down-b. There's probably too little labbing and actually relevent matches to look at to call it yet.
-Inkling has many amazing options but lacks kill pressure, many seem to think they are very good but difficult to master.
-Pokemon trainer is probably way better, but Squirtle stands out to most top players as the standout among it's pokemon. Squirtle has a really good combo game and is hard to land hits on due to it's small hitbox. Whenever squirtle gets too beat up, you switch to charizard for increased durability, kill power, and recovery.
-Pikachu's new nair greatly improves his combo game, he's better than his smash 4 version but it's debatable by how much.
-Rage only activates at 120%, so it's not common you'll actually see it matter in most matchups unless you are a very heavy character (like bowser, DK, etc).
-Snake plays much like his brawl form, but is much less campy with the loss of his old Downsmash. He's got really good options to not let characters off stages and while his tilts aren't as good as in Brawl, they are still really good. His C4 is probably better than it's brawl version, and he's not necessarily among the best but is not lower than mid tier either.
-Almost everyone was happy that Stage hazards were toggleable and that there's probably 25+ legal stages in this game.
-dash-dancing varies in viability from character to character: inkling and littlemac have a dash dance very similar to melee, while bowser/charizard don’t really have it as an effective tool.

 

[MasterofMonster]

I watched a group of Japanese guys react to the (English version of) the Direct, and it was very neat to see what characters they reacted to the most. My Japanese is limited, but I could easily hear they were super excited to see Ice Climbers (and Snake) back, so that is nice. I sorte expected them to be a bit indifferent to Ridley but they seemed super hyped for him, as well. The Japanese side of the Smash fandom is pretty different in what characters and such they want in Smash, so it's fun to see. ^^

Also, I have seen a lot of reactions from a lot of people, and almost every songle one groaned when Wii-Fit Trainer and Miis were confirmed.

 

[Will]

I watched a group of Japanese guys react to the (English version of) the Direct, and it was very neat to see what characters they reacted to the most. My Japanese is limited, but I could easily hear they were super excited to see Ice Climbers (and Snake) back, so that is nice. I sorte expected them to be a bit indifferent to Ridley but they seemed super hyped for him, as well. The Japanese side of the Smash fandom is pretty different in what characters and such they want in Smash, so it's fun to see. ^^

Also, I have seen a lot of reactions from a lot of people, and almost every songle one groaned when Wii-Fit Trainer and Miis were confirmed.

Why were they watching the English version?

 

[Arcadenik]

Bingo.

I always saw Daisy and Waluigi as Mario spin-off characters. Maybe many people, including the upset Waluigi fans, saw them like that. Maybe they figured that if one Mario spin-off character gets in Smash, then the other has to be in too!

Still... wow! Daisy has come a long way. She started off as a Peach expy from another kingdom. Then fell into obscurity for about 10 years or so and then came back big time in Mario Tennis for the N64 along with Waluigi. And both of them have been mainstays in Mario spin-off games for the past 18 years. And only recently in Super Mario Run has Daisy finally returning to the main Mario series. And now she gets in Smash and it appropriately pays homage to her humble beginnings as a Peach expy.

 

[MasterofMonster]

Why were they watching the English version?

I assume they watched it live and I think the E3 video was all there was for it at the time.

Btw, I just watched the Smash presentation on my tv (through Switch) and man, the game is so pretty! The textures and lightning and such are so nice compared to Smash 4.

 

[T-Hell]

View attachment 149078



Stop this.

Dude, there always has to be "those people".. I LOVE Waluigi and I am the FIRST PERSON here who wants him playable. But I 100000% understand why his status deserves nothing more than an AT. Wtf, we are even lucky he's been an AT three times! He could be a mere trophy and no one would even notice.
And don't even get me started with the "But Daisy is playable and he is not!" because we all know why she happened and he didn't.

AND there goes my sympathy for Waluigi...

See, now this bugs me a lot too. You should lose your sympathy for THOSE brainless people, not for the character who did nothing, Waluigi is obviously not to blame. With a mentality like that, it only further hurts the innocent character and it's chances and with it, their true fans.
Please don't think that way, we all lose.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

My responses in italic. Honestly I kinda hope Nintendo don't listen too closely. Perhaps it is just me but I find that characters with extensive combo games are less fun and it's difficult to get hype about being someones punching bag.

There's a huge difference between doing MvC combos like Bayonetta does and being able to get more than one attack in before resetting to neutral. That, and even with more hitstun you still won't get that many true combos nearly as much as strings due to DI, which makes it more interactive.
Playing Ganon for the first time after being used to PM, I was appalled that there was just nothing you could do out of grab*. There's honestly almost no point to him even having one, whereas in Melee or PM you can at least get a single aerial hit most of the time.
I have no interest in 20-hit-combos existing, but there's no danger of that happening anyway. The more important thing is that kill combos being more accessible does a lot to make the game more offense-oriented, even though those are often as few as 2 or 3 moves.

*Edit: Yes, I know his grab is awful anyway, but it's rewarding getting something from landing one of the worst grabs in the game.

 

[Hinata]

See, now this bugs me a lot too. You should lose your sympathy for THOSE brainless people, not for the character who did nothing, Waluigi is obviously not to blame. With a mentality like that, it only further hurts the innocent character and it's chances and with it, their true fans.
Please don't think that way, we all lose.

Makes me feel bad when people say stuff like that, because then it's just undermining the people who genuinely want to see Waluigi in the game, and aren't just going along with it for the meme.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Something interesting I dug up regarding the fighter pages on the website. A lot of people have noticed that almost every character has a different stage behind them on their fighter page and a lot are thinking of it as their "home stage". I've seen people point out that Rob doesn't have one but I haven't seen people point out these.

Pichu and Pikachu both have Prism tower as their background. Lucario and Mewtwo both have N's Castle, although strangely at different angles. This is really weird because there are two unused Pokemon stages, Saffron City and Spear Pillar, with Spear Pillar arguably being best fitting for Lucario. Somebody double check Lucario's for me, but I definitely see the dome for N's castle.

Finally since there's only 3 fire emblem stages the 6 characters share them which makes sense.

ROB's could be a placeholder for an unreleased stage but I don't see why as we got the New Don't City reveal through Mario's.

Also a couple of series that have unrepresented stages that could go to other characters - Animal Crossing, Mother, Yoshi, Mario, as I said Pokemon, Kirby, Zelda, Pikmin, Star Fox....I think that's it.

 

[Arcadenik]

meme

Genuinely curious... what meme is it?

 

[T-Hell]

Makes me feel bad when people say stuff like that, because then it's just undermining the people who genuinely want to see Waluigi in the game, and aren't just going along with it for the meme.

Exactly, now because of those idiots true Waluigi fans like me are gonna be "toobiged" disrespectfully. It's always the same, we all pay for those who sin, so to speak. I don't know if those people are true fans or not, but I know I am. I don't follow any meme, I just find Waluigi, for whatever reason, and incredibly humorous, charismatic, cool looking visually, and honestly, charming and lovable character. Up to this day, I still play some balloons minigames on Mario Kart for Nintendo DS, guess what character I always play as? Exactly.

LONG LIVE THE WAAAAAAA! lmao.

 

[Cosmic77]

Makes me feel bad when people say stuff like that, because then it's just undermining the people who genuinely want to see Waluigi in the game, and aren't just going along with it for the meme.

Every fanbase has them. I remember how frustrating it was when "Bigley" was a huge reason why Ridley was popular.

There's always going to be those people who give supporters a bad rep, but it's still support regardless. The old saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity is true, especially with Smash. Better to have a bunch of Waluigi meme lovers than a noticeably smaller number of supporters for the character.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

It's the best video i've found yet where we can clearly hear the Menu music (a part of it) without people talking over it.
It's different from the Main Theme, I like it, it's more dynamic !

 

[Phaazoid]

Jesus, things are getting heated in here. Lots of salt from disconfirmations. As a long time deluded Ridley supporter, let me just put my two cents in. I'll start with the obvious.

1. Waluigi will not be playable in the base game. Some people seem to think this is a fake out or something.

2. A character getting in or not getting into the game does not have any effect on your life. This is a videogame. Not real life. Your real life will continue untouched. Do not let things in a videogame have an effect on your emotional or mental well being. If they do, and I mean this very seriously, consider therapy. If this sort of thing is really effecting you it's unhealthy and unnatural, and if it is something you cannot control it is potentially dangerous and can have serious ramifications on your life. Don't be embarrassed about needing help.

3. Associating someone with a group of people is bad. If you have some Waluigi fans be arses on twitter, that does not equal some, all, most, or any group of waluigi fans being arses other than the exact ones on twitter. Don't make group assumptions. Judge everyone on a person to person basis.

Ok. Now lets move to

4. After the game comes out, we don't know the rules for DLC. That means current assist trophies, obscure third parties, echo fighters, new costumes, we don't know anything right now. If that's where you want to put your hopes for Waluigi, Lyn, or Bomberman, so be it. I personally hope it's a doorway for bomberman in the future. I'm a big fan of the character. Do I think it's likely? No. But we really don't know right now.


alright I think that's all I had for now

 

[Blargg888]

I hate to be that guy but I don't know why anyone is surprised. It's 2018. This kind of thing has been happening for a long time.

It sucks but its what should be expected. There are no repercussions for doing it so why wouldn't they? Just let them be the bottomfeeders they are, block them, and don't give them attention. Thats all they want.

I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

There's also some other opinions of various things like characters and etc. But many of them weren't consensus.
-There's a few melee players who obviously think L-cancelling should return, but most top players (of both melee and smash 4) think the decreased aerial landing lag is enough and L-cancelling shouldn't return
-There's a consensus Ganon is a much better character than in smash 4 or brawl, but some still don't think he'll be good while others think that the lack of landing lag on his aerials might be oppressive into certain matchups.
-There's a consensus Ridley's Down B is a pretty good move (it lands on frame 29, less than half a second of startup, and you get a free stock off of landing it pretty much 100% of the time, like a disjointed version of rest). Some seem to think he'll be bad because his hurtboxes are easily abusable, others think that his side b and aerials are amazing and will make him at least pretty good on top of his down-b. There's probably too little labbing and actually relevent matches to look at to call it yet.
-Inkling has many amazing options but lacks kill pressure, many seem to think they are very good but difficult to master.
-Pokemon trainer is probably way better, but Squirtle stands out to most top players as the standout among it's pokemon. Squirtle has a really good combo game and is hard to land hits on due to it's small hitbox. Whenever squirtle gets too beat up, you switch to charizard for increased durability, kill power, and recovery.
-Pikachu's new nair greatly improves his combo game, he's better than his smash 4 version but it's debatable by how much.
-Rage only activates at 120%, so it's not common you'll actually see it matter in most matchups unless you are a very heavy character (like bowser, DK, etc).
-Snake plays much like his brawl form, but is much less campy with the loss of his old Downsmash. He's got really good options to not let characters off stages and while his tilts aren't as good as in Brawl, they are still really good. His C4 is probably better than it's brawl version, and he's not necessarily among the best but is not lower than mid tier either.
-Almost everyone was happy that Stage hazards were toggleable and that there's probably 25+ legal stages in this game.
-dash-dancing varies in viability from character to character: inkling and littlemac have a dash dance very similar to melee, while bowser/charizard don’t really have it as an effective tool.

I hope Ivysaur ends up being buffed in the final build. I really wanna see all 3 Pokemon in action.

 

[DJ3DS]

There's a huge difference between doing MvC combos like Bayonetta does and being able to get more than one attack in before resetting to neutral. That, and even with more hitstun you still won't get that many true combos nearly as much as strings due to DI, which makes it more interactive.
Playing Ganon for the first time after being used to PM, I was appalled that there was just nothing you could do out of grab*. There's honestly almost no point to him even having one, whereas in Melee or PM you can at least get a single aerial hit most of the time.
I have no interest in 20-hit-combos existing, but there's no danger of that happening anyway. The more important thing is that kill combos being more accessible does a lot to make the game more offense-oriented, even though those are often as few as 2 or 3 moves.

*Edit: Yes, I know his grab is awful anyway, but it's rewarding getting something from landing one of the worst grabs in the game.

This is fair enough - I'm just too used to playing a punching bag character.

 

[Blargg888]

Also, I have seen a lot of reactions from a lot of people, and almost every songle one groaned when Wii-Fit Trainer and Miis were confirmed.

Being a Mii Main is suffering.

It really sucks to watch everybody crap all over your favorite character for no reason.

 

[StrangeMann]

Being a Mii Main is suffering.

It really sucks to watch everybody crap all over your favorite character for no reason.

I hope they are not banned from competitive this time, Miis should have been Freed in smash 4 but weren't.

 

[Murlough]

Y'know, I started playing Corrin again on Smash 3DS last night, and I realized that while I don't like them too much in the game they come from, I do like them in Smash, and I'm really happy they're still in along with everyone else. It's neat.

So for the sake of discussion, does anyone else here have a character they like in Smash but don't necessarily care for in the game they come from?

Palutena. Its so weird. I always liked how she played but never considered playing her just because Mewtwo existed. Once I finally got sick of dying at 30% I just pulled her out and did just as good as I would have with Mewtwo (which is pretty good. I'm just barely outside the PR in my state and its mostly cause I'm in Kentucky 60% of the time.)

I've never played a Kid Icarus game and I hear the series is dead so I guess I never will, but I adore Palutena now. Now that her laffy taffy hair and garbage side-tilt are gone I can be satisfied solo maining her, even though I probably won't.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

It's pretty hilarious that Waluigi fans are so upset at his exclusion when there are so many more noteworthy and/or realistic mario characters, (toad, birdo, funky, king boo, paper mario, baby bros, geno, or kamek) let alone nintendo characters in general that would have more interesting playstyles (isaac, krystal, k rool, or a rhythm heaven rep)

 

[Hinata]

Also, I have seen a lot of reactions from a lot of people, and almost every songle one groaned when Wii-Fit Trainer and Miis were confirmed.

During the Direct, I was the only one out of my entire group of friends I was watching with who was excited to see Wii Fit Trainer come back.

Everyone else just didn't care.

 

[Opossum]

It's pretty hilarious that Waluigi fans are so upset at his exclusion when there are so many more noteworthy and/or realistic mario characters, (toad, birdo, funky, king boo, or kamek) let alone nintendo characters in general that would have more interesting playstyles (isaac, krystal, k rool, or a rhythm heaven rep)

> Birdo
> Realistic

Those are mutually exclusive.

 

[DJ3DS]

During the Direct, I was the only one out of my entire group of friends I was watching with who was excited to see Wii Fit Trainer come back.

Everyone else just didn't care.

I cheered so hard when Ice Climbers appeared, it was almost audible over everyone else's groans!

 

[Zerp]

Inb4 this Waluigi incident inspires a wave of false-flaggers who actually hate the character they're "supporting" and will do everything in their power to make their fanbase as obnoxious and hated as possible.

 

[Hinata]

I cheered so hard when Ice Climbers appeared, it was almost audible over everyone else's groans!

I cheered when Ice Climbers came back, while everyone else was just making wobbling jokes.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Being a Mii Main is suffering.

It really sucks to watch everybody crap all over your favorite character for no reason.

While I don't personally like the Miis, I understand their inclusion. My personal issue with them came from the undefined nature of their movesets, weight, speed, etc. but it sounds like they're trying to standardize Miis so they can easily be used competitively. If they can do that, the Miis are great and I'm happy to have them.

My own personal bias aside, they seem like a great casual character. Most of the reactions you'll find online are from people who view the game in a competitive sense and have the same issues that I do, but for whatever reason they care way more about it. That certainly isn't justification for being a jerk about them, though. Their place in Smash is far more valid than many characters on the roster as they've been all over the place since the conception of the Wii.

TL:DR; Miis are a great worthwhile addition who deserve their place and us competitive players needs to just shut our mouths and accept them in whatever form they happen to appear, especially since we were told they're being at least somewhat more standardized.

 

[T-Hell]

> Birdo
> Realistic

Those are mutually exclusive.

Not to mention his argument just sounds like "lmao look at these people wanting a worthless character I don't care about when there are better choices aka the ones I care about, zo ztoopid".

 

[Lady Byakugan]

> Birdo
> Realistic

Those are mutually exclusive.

I mean as an echo of Yoshi, she'd be more realistic than Waluigi, since he would need his own moveset

 

[Opossum]

I mean as an echo of Yoshi, she'd be more realistic than Waluigi, since he would need his own moveset

Ignoring the fact that Birdo literally can't be a Yoshi echo?

She can't use Egg Lay or Egg Roll, and Egg Toss isn't something she did either. She shoots them from her mouth.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

2. A character getting in or not getting into the game does not have any effect on your life. This is a videogame. Not real life. Your real life will continue untouched.

Nah fam my girlfriend said she'd only marry me if Waluigi got into Smash

 

[osby]

During the Direct, I was the only one out of my entire group of friends I was watching with who was excited to see Wii Fit Trainer come back.

Everyone else just didn't care.

I love her new look, tbh. She seems mostly same otherwise, so stil good.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Seems like I finally settled on which newcomers I wanted to add for my predictions, though I do not plan on finalizing it until the end of June. I am going to wait for potential Famitsu Sakurai interviews to come up before I am settled with any finalization.

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty hilarious that Waluigi fans are so upset at his exclusion when there are so many more noteworthy and/or realistic mario characters, (toad, birdo, funky, king boo, paper mario, baby bros, geno, or kamek) let alone nintendo characters in general that would have more interesting playstyles (isaac, krystal, k rool, or a rhythm heaven rep)

Why should anyone care about what's realistic and/or noteworthy more than what they want?
Also, the second part of the sentence is entirely subjective.