Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[papagenos]

Don't know if this has been posted here yet (holy **** there's a lot of people here what are we all doin' havin a party? Am I invited)? But uh

I stole this from a Discord.
Go at it

little mac, kirby, young link, sonic, bowser jr

runner up duck hunt.

 

[Chandeelure]

But didn't they confirm you can switch Pokemon while airborne now? Switch to Charizard, fly back.

Yeah, it's confirmed.

 

[StrangeMann]

Is this a new report and did anyone mention what the players actually said to them?

Consensus is at the moment among both melee and smash 4 top players:
- Wavelanding should definitely have less landing lag, wavedashing should be a viable (but not mandatory) movement option. Wavelanding off platforms should also happen
-Increased hitstun, increased gravity, or decreased “balloon” effect, allowing for more combo potential and a possible 4 stock meta.
- Further changes to Bayonetta allowing more counterplay, especially for heavy or big characters who are almost unviable because they can’t handle her.
- Fox widely considered really bad and needs buffs.
Ones I can think of that M2k, Zero, and Armada all mentioned

 

[Llort A. Ton]

5 mains?

I'd love to try out and , but I dont know if Ill main them yet.

So...



Is an honorable mention because IMO >

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, I started playing Corrin again on Smash 3DS last night, and I realized that while I don't like them too much in the game they come from, I do like them in Smash, and I'm really happy they're still in along with everyone else. It's neat.

So for the sake of discussion, does anyone else here have a character they like in Smash but don't necessarily care for in the game they come from?

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

 

[StrangeMann]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

If we see one of these new 3rd parties, it will be Ubisoft first for sure. Then possibly activision... but I consider Simon pretty likely.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Y'know, I started playing Corrin again on Smash 3DS last night, and I realized that while I don't like them too much in the game they come from, I do like them in Smash, and I'm really happy they're still in along with everyone else. It's neat.

So for the sake of discussion, does anyone else here have a character they like in Smash but don't necessarily care for in the game they come from?

The closest I have is Rosalina, but that's simply because she doesn't do anything in her game, and now is just a spin off character when there are tons of those already.

But I loved her playstyle the second I saw her revealed. I just love the way they made her in the game, shes a cool contrast to Peach.

 

[Gumzilla]

What do you think the New Donk City stage will be like?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

I really doubt it. When Masahiro "The Man" Sakurai wants a character in Smash, he works a little of that patented Sora Ltd. magic and usually gets his hands on them.

 

[Deleted member]

So for the sake of discussion, does anyone else here have a character they like in Smash but don't necessarily care for in the game they come from?

Easily Corrin. She's a fun character to play as (though she's not one of my mains), but as a character... ugh.
Those who have played Fates know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[staindgrey]

- Fox widely considered really bad and needs buffs.

I'm curious. What makes Fox so bad that they all agree he's in need of buffs? I haven't really played Fox since Melee, so I'm not privy to his various changes.

Easily Corrin. She's a fun character to play as (though she's not one of my mains), but as a character... ugh.
Those who have played Fates know exactly what I'm talking about.

I tried to give your post two likes. The site won't let me.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

Ubisoft has a high chance in getting a playable rep and Activision is atleast a 50/50

What do you think the New Donk City stage will be like?

but with more Pauline

 

[Chandeelure]

Consensus is at the moment among both melee and smash 4 top players:
- Wavelanding should definitely have less landing lag, wavedashing should be a viable (but not mandatory) movement option. Wavelanding off platforms should also happen
-Increased hitstun, increased gravity, or decreased “balloon” effect, allowing for more combo potential and a possible 4 stock meta.
- Further changes to Bayonetta allowing more counterplay, especially for heavy or big characters who are almost unviable because they can’t handle her.
- Fox widely considered really bad and needs buffs.
Ones I can think of that M2k, Zero, and Armada all mentioned

Also aerial momentum.

(That thing from Melee, when you run and then jump and you keep the speed in the air)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Easily Corrin. She's a fun character to play as (though she's not one of my mains), but as a character... ugh.
Those who have played Fates know exactly what I'm talking about.

I actually like the female Corrin a lot (male Corrin is an ugh though)

 

[Gumzilla]

but with more Pauline

I was thinking that too

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Consensus is at the moment among both melee and smash 4 top players:
- Wavelanding should definitely have less landing lag, wavedashing should be a viable (but not mandatory) movement option. Wavelanding off platforms should also happen
-Increased hitstun, increased gravity, or decreased “balloon” effect, allowing for more combo potential and a possible 4 stock meta.
- Further changes to Bayonetta allowing more counterplay, especially for heavy characters who are almost unviable because they can’t handle her.
- Fox widely considered really bad and needs buffs.
Ones I can think of that M2k, Zero, and Armada all mentioned

This is all I ever wanted.
I realize that I'm the outlier, but I honestly really dislike the feel of Smash 4, the only character that feels okay to me is Ryu (granted, haven't tried any of the later DLC characters that much because of how the base roster went). The thing that I really miss is being able to just put in on random and feel okay with almost anyone, like I do in Project M.
If characters fall faster, hitstun makes combos easier and landing lag is reduced (which it has been, drastically), I think I'll actually feel good about a canonical Smash game again, which is a really exciting prospect. There's a small chance it'll even be better because of things like the shorthop aerial input.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually like the female Corrin a lot (male Corrin is an ugh though)

Have you played Fates? Though I can't say I blame you regardless of whether or not you have, female Corrin is cute

 

[StrangeMann]

I'm curious. What makes Fox so bad that they all agree he's in need of buffs? I haven't really played Fox since Melee, so I'm not privy to his various changes.

They nerfed his side b so you can’t act after it anymore, you couldn’t side b past an opponent who was shielding anymore (thus opponent would get a free shield grab), and his lasers/upsmash aren’t as good as previous titles. This significantly weakens both his recovery and neutral game, which makes him significantly worse.

 

[Will]

Yeah, it's confirmed.

Guess you really can't play as just Ivysaur if you wanna guarantee recovery.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

At most, I see Ubisoft with a character. Otherwise, I don't see any new companies getting their characters in Smash.

 

[staindgrey]

They nerfed his side b so you can’t act after it anymore, you couldn’t side b past an opponent who was shielding anymore (thus opponent would get a free shield grab), and his lasers/upsmash aren’t as good as previous titles. This significantly weakens both his recovery and neutral game, which makes him significantly worse.

Wow. I didn't realize they changed his sideB that much.

I wonder if Falco/Wolf will have similar problems.

Have you played Fates? Though I can't say I blame you regardless of whether or not you have, female Corrin is cute

Some people like Fates.

I don't agree with them, but I don't judge.

Much.

Out loud.

...

Azura's character design was cool at least?

 

[papagenos]

So, with Sakurai pouring most of his resources on making every veteran return for Smash Ultimate do you think this limits the number of potential 3rd party newcomers from unrepresented companies he could negotiate with like Level-5, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Will he just stick to Konami, SEGA, Capcom, Square Enix, and Namco Bandai to add third party characters from those acquired companies to save time and money?

i'm kinda thinking it will only be those already represented companies, at least for the base roster, simply because i feel if there was a third party from an unrepresented company it would want to be highlighted for its involvement at E3.

it's why im wary of the "minecraft" part of Vergebens leak, as far as i can gather and if im understanding it correctly Vergeben had three sources and only the final and sketchiest of his sources said Minecraft but they reiterated and backed up the first two sources claims... i could be wrong here ive been trying to find some more info on the minecraft part of that leak (cause it would mean microsoft and potentially banjo) but its really hard to find clarification on where the minecraft part came from.

 

[Arcadenik]

Y'know, I started playing Corrin again on Smash 3DS last night, and I realized that while I don't like them too much in the game they come from, I do like them in Smash, and I'm really happy they're still in along with everyone else. It's neat.

So for the sake of discussion, does anyone else here have a character they like in Smash but don't necessarily care for in the game they come from?

Yes. Many of them.

I am not a fan of Star Fox. I am just indifferent toward the series. I really enjoy playing as Wolf in Brawl. I always prefer Wolf over Fox or Falco.

ultcorrin: Same as Star Fox. I just like playing as Fire Emblem characters so I don't care if there are "too many" characters from that series. They are all fun and that's all that matters to me.

I played little of EarthBound. It's interesting but I'm neutral toward the series. Ness and Lucas are so much fun to play as in Smash. They are some of my best characters.

Never played Gyromite or Stack-Up. I love playing as R.O.B. It's so quirky and fun!

Same as R.O.B.

 

[Sharkarat]

I'm curious. What makes Fox so bad that they all agree he's in need of buffs? I haven't really played Fox since Melee, so I'm not privy to his various changes.

in addition to what Strangemann says, i think it was also something about using reflector twice midair makes him fall like a rock.

 

[Deleted member]

Some people like Fates.

I don't agree with them, but I don't judge.

Much.

Out loud.

...

Azura's character design was cool at least?

I've played only one third of it (and I plan on finishing the other two thirds because I might as well finish what I've started), and while I don't think it's that bad, it certainly has issues.
It's probably not the best place to discuss this tho

 

[Luminario]

They nerfed his side b so you can’t act after it anymore, you couldn’t side b past an opponent who was shielding anymore (thus opponent would get a free shield grab), and his lasers/upsmash aren’t as good as previous titles. This significantly weakens both his recovery and neutral game, which makes him significantly worse.

lmao they took Zelda's free-fall-after-side-B and gave it to Fox? Ah how the turntables~

 

[Slavic]

Some people like Fates.

I don't agree with them, but I don't judge.

Much.

Out loud.

...

Azura's character design was cool at least?

Hey, Fates did some really cool things with the gameplay, like paired-up enemies and splitting pairing up into offensive support and defensive...

Oh look at that, my well of Fates compliments ran dry.

Would have definitely preferred Azura or Xander and/or Ryoma for Smash over Corrin tho

 

[DLEAF]

lmao they took Zelda's free-fall-after-side-B and gave it to Fox? Ah how the turntables~

Also Little Mac, I might pick him up again, since his recovery is now going to be leagues ahead of what he had.

 

[DJ3DS]

Consensus is at the moment among both melee and smash 4 top players:
- Wavelanding should definitely have less landing lag

why not I guess

wavedashing should be a viable (but not mandatory) movement option.

please no

Wavelanding off platforms should also happen
-Increased hitstun, increased gravity, or decreased “balloon” effect, allowing for more combo potential and a possible 4 stock meta.

I would be fine with hitstun staying Smash 4 levels; it was already oppressive against certain characters.

- Further changes to Bayonetta allowing more counterplay, especially for heavy or big characters who are almost unviable because they can’t handle her.

Sounds good

- Fox widely considered really bad and needs buffs.

Personally preferable to him being oppressive to play against again but whatever

Ones I can think of that M2k, Zero, and Armada all mentioned

My responses in italic. Honestly I kinda hope Nintendo don't listen too closely. Perhaps it is just me but I find that characters with extensive combo games are less fun and it's difficult to get hype about being someones punching bag.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Have you played Fates? Though I can't say I blame you regardless of whether or not you have, female Corrin is cute

Why yes...yes I have (all three versions), but she’s better in Heroes and Warriors

 

[Deleted member]

Why yes...yes I have (all three versions), but she’s better in Heroes and Warriors

Fair enough.
I haven't played those, so I wasn't aware.

 

[staindgrey]

I've played only one third of it (and I plan on finishing the other two thirds because I might as well finish what I've started), and while I don't think it's that bad, it certainly has issues.
It's probably not the best place to discuss this tho

It's not. But as a final word: If your first third was Birthright, give Conquest a try. While Fates in general is my least favorite FE game, I feel like Birthright was the weakest of the three, and Conquest was the strongest. Particularly in terms of gameplay, but also slightly in terms of character interactions.

 

[SlickWylde]

I get cautious when I see all the people talking about how Nintendo is taking feedback from the top players, and that top players are saying they're hopeful about the game. Heard similar stuff when Sm4sh was shown off at E3...

BUT

This does seem a little different. People like Armada, Mew2King (and a few others I can't remember now) are making videos about their thoughts, and most of it sounds pretty positive. The way they describe Sakurai introducing himself and meeting the players really does paint a picture that they're trying to reach out to the competitive scene a lot more this time. So I'm excited.

And I'm not worried about it being "Too competitive", I think it'll still be fun for "casual" players like myself. But I love watching high level play at tournaments. I hope it's more technically competent and rewards offensive play this time! :D

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'd like to hear some others' thoughts on my speculation, if anyone's up to it.

Based on my observations of this Smash game, I think I'm onto at least something with my most recent predictions for newcomers. We're having less than even the smallest amount of newcomers from before (14, what Melee had) with base roster and meeting that number with DLC. This title also seems to be based on mostly fanservice, so I'm taking that into consideration here.

Base Roster Newcomers
1. King K. Rool - Sakurai has thrice now acknowledged and added a character who's popularity is primarily in the West, first with Diddy, then Little Mac, then Ridley. Knowing that at least amongst the online fanbase, K. Rool is popular in both East and West, and since there's never been any ill-will towards Rare created characters (Diddy and the Krystal assist trophy prove this), I think the King's time is finally here.

2. Ashley - With his insider information, Sakurai would likely know of the upcoming WarioWare: Gold and could theoretically have prepared a newcomer for promotional purposes; beyond this Ashley is incredibly popular in Japan and has notable popularity in America and Europe as well. Her assist trophy is currently missing from the roster, whereas other frontrunners and popular picks like Takamaru, Waluigi, and Bomberman have all been shown off.

3. Generation 7 Pokémon - Generation 7 is an incredibly important game to the Pokémon franchise, being the celebration of the 20th Anniversary of the franchise and providing a number of much-needed tweaks to the standard franchise formula; furthermore as with most Pokémon games sold like hotcakes. It was also heavily promoted along with a handful of 'mon in the game. While I don't personally see Mimikyu or Lycanroc likely, I could see either Incineroar or Decidueye making it playable (especially since we no longer are missing part of the type trio.)

4. Dillon - While this game is a bit more obscure, I can see Dillon chosen on uniqueness alone, representing either tower defense mechanics or cowboy tropes - as he connects to both themes. Furthermore, he had an upcoming game during development which as we've established Sakurai could have known about. He's also on Sakurai's radar as he was an assist trophy in the last game, and, like Ashley, is currently unseen in Smash Ultimate.

5. Spring Man - I wouldn't say he'd make it in if it wasn't for the fact this game's development is so different from past Smash titles. Veterans, despite having to be remade from the ground up, still take less time to make as they have an established design and movesets already created, and Sakurai has already stated not to expect too many newcomers; this combined with the fact we see an ARMS item appear in Smash Ultimate makes me think he could have been added on to the roster plan mid-development when ARMS was at the height of it's popularity, and as a fighting game itself it's easy enough to translate into Smash.

6. Dixie Kong [Possibly as an Echo Fighter/Semiclone of Diddy] - Dixie's relevance is ensured by her recent playable appearance in Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze and the fact she shares a very similar body to Diddy means she could make for an easy clone or semiclone, or even a new "Echo Fighter" of Diddy. Sakurai's shown to take creative liberties when developing semiclones or echo fighters (such as Daisy), so it's possible he could do so with Dixie.

7. Impa [Sheik's Echo Fighter] - Sakurai's giving the Zelda cast a huge set of visual changes this time around, with each one representing a different title in the series, and being an actual Sheikah, seeing Impa utilizing the moves Sheik uses would not be a stretch. I think they'd likely go with her Skyward Sword design, as that most resembles Sheik's body type and is a currently unrepresented title in Ultimate.

8. Octoling [Inkling's Echo Fighter] - With the popularity of the Splatoon franchise being so massive, I don't think it's out there to see two playable characters enter the fray in the same game. Beyond this, Inklings and Octolings function exactly the same in their own series - making for a literal perfect Echo Fighter. Beyond that, they're popular amongst the Splatoon fanbase, are an additional villain representative (sort of?) and had the upcoming Octo Expansion in Splatoon 2 which Sakurai could have known about.

9. Simon Belmont/Rayman - One of these two third party franchises is likely to get represented; Castlevania is returning to relevance with cameos and the anime series, with rumored titles in the franchise to soon make an appearance. Konami is also fine with representation in Smash as Snake is returning and Bomberman, Simon's only true competition in-company is an assist trophy. On the other hand, Ubisoft's Rayman is already on Sakurai's radar as his franchise received not one, not two, but three trophies in Smash on Wii U, including Rayman himself. We've also already debunked the "no Western characters" argument and though he does like to meet with the characters' creator, Sakurai does go back on his traditions and words sometimes (see Ridley, Pac-Man, and Villager as good examples.)

DLC Newcomers
10. Rex & Pyra - Sakurai has stated on multiple occassions that he loves Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and the gimmick of Blade switching is a very easily translatable one. The franchise has been represented in Smash with Shulk, and despite releasing last year, it was Nintendo's holiday game and is still being supported.

11. Edelgard - Or any main character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I personally think Edelgard is most likely due to already being the fan favorite and the only one we know so far capable of wielding multiple weapon types. In addition; Three Houses comes out very soon after Smash and would be ripe for promotion. While Sakurai does think the franchise might be overrepresented, he didn't take anyone out and his team could easily convince him of another fighter's uniqueness.

12. Generation 8 Pokémon - This all depends on how soon we get Gen 8, but it's allegedly coming out next year and I think Sakurai might be supporting Smash with additional DLC for quite some time. Who it is, again depends on marketing, but it'll likely be a starter and the type not represented by the Gen 7 'mon (assuming it's Incineroar or Decidueye).

13. Simon Belmont/Rayman - Whomever doesn't get in the base game.

14. One Last 3rd Party - I don't know who, but something to try and top Cloud and Snake, someone big, popular, and guaranteed to sell. Sora I could actually see being this one.

 

[Idon]

God, if 3 Houses is split into 3 games, I am am going to flip.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

God, if 3 Houses is split into 3 games, I am am going to flip.

Nah, that's just what they want you to think.

Spoiler

It'll be split into five games.

 

[staindgrey]

God, if 3 Houses is split into 3 games, I am am going to flip.

That was the first thing I thought when I saw the title.

I'm still salty about not getting the all-on-one-cart Fates edition after waiting outside a Best Buy all morning.

 

[Deleted member]

God, if 3 Houses is split into 3 games, I am am going to flip.

That was the first thing I thought about when I saw the name for the first time.
it almost gave me a heart attack

 

[Will]

God, if 3 Houses is split into 3 games, I am am going to flip.

In 2021, they'll offer to combine all three games into one for the ultimate experience.

Spoiler: And they'll call it...