Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[YoshiandToad]

usually Sakurai handles popular characters' deconfirmations a bit more carefully than showing the character getting beaten up.

Mostly....but...

This was Toad's deconfirmation pic in Smash 4, day of the direct that Rosalina was announced as playable.

Also famously this;

I didn't even want Chrom and I felt bad.

 

[Troykv]

Seems like I finally settled on which newcomers I wanted to add for my predictions, though I do not plan on finalizing it until the end of June. I am going to wait for potential Famitsu Sakurai interviews to come up before I am settled with any finalization.

When Famitsu is published?

 

[osby]

Why should anyone care about what's realistic and/or noteworthy more than what they want?
Also, the second part of the sentence is entirely subjective.

Because otherwise they'll be disappointed.

 

[BluePikmin11]

When Famitsu is published?

I have no freaking clue, but I am feeling Famitsu will be coming real soon.

 

[Troykv]

Mostly....but...

This was Toad's deconfirmation pic in Smash 4, day of the direct that Rosalina was announced as playable.

Also famously this;

I don't think Sakurai considered Toad a serious consideration; at least not in Smash 4...

Oh... But Chrom was a completely different story... a funny and bittersweet story.

 

[Freduardo]

It's pretty hilarious that Waluigi fans are so upset at his exclusion when there are so many more noteworthy and/or realistic mario characters, (toad, birdo, funky, king boo, paper mario, baby bros, geno, or kamek) let alone nintendo characters in general that would have more interesting playstyles (isaac, krystal, k rool, or a rhythm heaven rep)

Needs more Fawful.

He’s important in twice as many games as Geno.

 

[StrangeMann]

Someone made a mock-up roster of ultimate based on the demo

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think they made a mistake though, as Ness is on there twice? Perhaps it was just an accident or some joke, who knows.

 

[Murlough]

Why should anyone care about what's realistic and/or noteworthy more than what they want?
Also, the second part of the sentence is entirely subjective.

Whats the point in getting invested in something that will never happen?

I don't care myself but I think its a valid argument. People can want whatever they want and shouldn't be hated on for it, but asking why people want the impossible is a valid question worth a direct response, in my opinion.

Someone made a mock-up roster of ultimate based on the demo

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think they made a mistake though, as Ness is on there twice? Perhaps it was just an accident or some joke, who knows.

If they ever do Sans, which they won't but hey, they gotta stick with the 2d look. His 3d versions are disgusting and look so wrong.

 

[SlickWylde]

*Not directed at anyone in particular, just the Waluigi salt in general:

So is Sakurai mistreating every character that he shows as an assist trophy? Or is it just because he got beat up? Isn't that kinda a very Waluigi thing, anyway? He's always kinda at the butt of the joke. Damn, it's annoying how seriously some people take wanting their characters. Let's just lighten up and enjoy who we get! I want King K Rool, but I know that it's probably not gonna happen. If Sakurai dis-confirmed him by showing him falling off a boat or something, I would laugh. It would mean that Sakurai is acknowledging his fanbase, but can't put the character in.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Someone made a mock-up roster of ultimate based on the demo

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I think they made a mistake though, as Ness is on there twice? Perhaps it was just an accident or some joke, who knows.

I think the rows should be 12 for most of the columns, but overall looks sexy

 

[Deleted member]

Because otherwise they'll be disappointed.

Whats the point in getting invested in something that will never happen?

I don't care myself but I think its a valid argument. People can want whatever they want and shouldn't be hated on it but asking why people want the impossible is a valid question worth a direct response, in my opinion.

Fair point.
As someone who doesn't care about how likely a character is when he considers them, I agree that it's unreasonable to complain about their exclusion.

 

[Luminario]

Ignoring the fact that Birdo literally can't be a Yoshi echo?

She can't use Egg Lay or Egg Roll, and Egg Toss isn't something she did either. She shoots them from her mouth.

But Daisy can apparently float as an echo, so I don't think they're sticking to canon abilities too closely here. Birdo lays eggs and is built off of Yoshi, she even has the egg throw special item from Double Dash, so none of Yoshi's abilities are going to be any more of a stretch than Daisy floating and using Toad and potentially plucking Turnips.

 

[Chandeelure]

Daisy floating will look weird.

I hope it's at least different and not a copy of Peach's, like a vertical floating or something, referencing her double jump from Super Mario Run.

 

[Troykv]

Whats the point in getting invested in something that will never happen?

I don't care myself but I think its a valid argument. People can want whatever they want and shouldn't be hated on for it, but asking why people want the impossible is a valid question worth a direct response, in my opinion.

Because it means something personally to me.

 

[Will]

"Hi I'm Daisy!" as a taunt or the effort to put her in was wasted.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

But Daisy can apparently float as an echo, so I don't think they're sticking to canon abilities too closely here. Birdo lays eggs and is built off of Yoshi, she even has the egg throw special item from Double Dash, so none of Yoshi's abilities are going to be any more of a stretch than Daisy floating and using Toad and potentially plucking Turnips.

The only issue is the lack of a tongue, no getting around that

 

[ErenJager]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

 

[osby]

Daisy floating will look weird.

I hope it's at least different and not a copy of Peach's, like a vertical floating or something, referencing her double jump from Super Mario Run.

It's probably the same. I don't mind, it'd hardly first time Smash gave someone another character's ability.
Or maybe Daisy always had it secretly offscreen and it's a princess thing?

 

[Will]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

1. That's too drastic
2. You're only focusing on a vocal minority, not unless your mentality is one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel
3. You would've taken Ridley off Pyrosphere back in 2014

 

[osby]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

This is a bit much. I'm content with him never becoming playable.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

That's a little drastic. There are Waluigi fans out there like me who are saddened he's not in, but don't go out of their way to bug Sakurai about it. We can still have the guy around. At least as an assist, he's acknowledged to exist, which is more than characters like Lip get.

 

[ErenJager]

1. That's too drastic
2. You're only focusing on a vocal minority, not unless your mentality is one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel
3. You would've taken Ridley off Pyrosphere back in 2014

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

 

[Will]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

but it would be a small price to pay.

And it's perfect

​

dude
what the ****
that's far from perfect, you really think you can stop the internet?

 

[osby]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

Nah, it would allow the haters of a character to annoy developers, pretending to be fans. You can't regulate this. Like the idea though.

 

[Bowserlick]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

This would allow anyone to steamroll a character by insulting Sakurai.

Plenty of people are sticking up for Sakurai. I bet he appreciates those fans.

No need for a strange fascist policy to keep people in line.
It also just would not work. Jerks will be jerks.

 

[StrangeMann]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

Really bad idea
For one thing: Imagine if it was basically confirmed that a character/element was removed from the game by harassing Sakurai on twitter?
Do you have any idea how many false flags there would be going forward? Intentionally increased Vitriol vs Sakurai just to prevent playable characters or representation in games? It would be an abomination and cause massive tension in the smash community.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

I'm just glad Sakurai isn't that petty or self-righteous.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

You know what else sends a strong message? Ignoring them. Show them they can't hurt you or ruin their day and eventually they stop.

You're saying Sakurai should basically be an anti-Waluigi Hitler

 

[zeldasmash]

Also famously this;

I didn't even want Chrom and I felt bad.

Yeah this was a brutal pill to swallow that day...

 

[SlickWylde]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

No, people would get even more mad, and act out much more. All it would do is create more negative feelings for a lot of players (especially fans of Waluigi that don't condone misbehavior). Overall it would be a really bad choice. You have to know that there would be tons of videos and articles about it, many of them painting Sakurai as a huge jerk, and the goodwill for the series could drop dramatically.

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

Oh, you underestimate humanity's negativity. I can guarantee you that it would not stop people and it would only give them the opportunity to hassle and hurt fans of other characters. That is why you don't do stuff just because of a minority of people.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So regarding Waluigi...think he'll get a Mii outfit like Chrom did as a wooden spoon?

 

[Luminario]

The only issue is the lack of a tongue, no getting around that

True, but a way around that is to give her a Kirby Inhale style windbox for B and shorten grab range so that she has to be next to them to eat them as opposed to Yoshi using his tongue. Give her a Robirdo FS and voila~ prime echo material, not that she's likely at all though.

Since we're on echoes here, Daisy should pair up with Toadette instead of a blue Toad, assuming she's not playable as an alt or otherwise. They're both known for their spin-off appearances and I think it would have been a little more suitable having the spin-off queens fight together.

 

[Will]

Thread theme after that post:

So regarding Waluigi...think he'll get a Mii outfit like Chrom did as a wooden spoon?

Didn't we get a Waluigi hat, or am I just imagining that?

 

[osby]

So regarding Waluigi...think he'll get a Mii outfit like Chrom did as a wooden spoon?

Wooden spoon?

 

[TumblrFamous]

This thread has turned into a bunch of sociopaths oh my gosh.

Two people did something wrong. Taking out anything Waluigi, screwing over an entire fanbase? Not only is it petty and rude. It's like the equivalent to a teacher punishing an entire classroom for the actions of one student.

Some of y'all shouldn't have kids.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

True, but a way around that is to give her a Kirby Inhale style windbox for B and shorten grab range so that she has to be next to them to eat them as opposed to Yoshi using his tongue. Give her a Robirdo FS and voila~ prime echo material, not that she's likely at all though.

Since we're on echoes here, Daisy should pair up with Toadette instead of a blue Toad, assuming she's not playable as an alt or otherwise. They're both known for their spin-off appearances and I think it would have been a little more suitable having the spin-off queens fight together.

I wonder if those kind of changes are close enough for an echo fighter. They seem to be reaching, but maybe just reusing another characters animation (Kirby's sucking) would still count Birdo as an echo fighter? Idk so far all the echo fighters are almost 1:1 the same character. They're also way more similar with the model too and Birdo and Yoshi do not have the same model....Actually that's a good point against Isabelle being a Echo of Villager, although maybe their bodies are a bit more similar.

The Toadette idea is a good one! Why didn't they do that :\

 

[Lyndis_]

I hope they are not banned from competitive this time, Miis should have been Freed in smash 4 but weren't.

This is what I'll miss least about Smash 4. Biggest ruleset sin ever IMHO.

There was absolutely no reason to restrict their customs other than because people felt like it. Everybody knew it was an unfair ruling but nobody cared.

Can we all just agree to allow Miis to function normally this time around as long as they're default size (assuming you can even change it this in this game?)

 

[YoshiandToad]

Thread theme after that post:

Didn't we get a Waluigi hat, or am I just imagining that?

You did get the hat, but I'm talking full outfit; overalls and everything for Brawler or something.

Wooden spoon?

Like a booby prize of sorts. Not quite what you were after but "better than nothing". Last game had what I call "wooden spoon prizes" for K. Rool, Isabelle, Ashley, Toad, Chrom, etc with the Mii's cosplaying as the characters their fans wanted.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

If I was Sakurai I'd straight up remove all Waluigi content from the final game.
I'd show zero tolerance for that kinda stuff.
Any one else thinks of pulling stunts like that in the future, maybe they'll think twice.

Luigi wouldn't even have a purple color swap.

Yeah, I wouldn't care.
It would send a strong message, guaranteed people wouldn't act like idiots going forward.

And it's perfect, that way the good fans ostracize the bad ones - because they see what negative behaviour results in.
Creates this atmosphere of "Don't piss off Sakurai - it won't help your characters chances".

I get that the good fans would lose out too, but it would be a small price to pay.

If there's a small group of radicals in your fandom... you gotta set them straight and nip that right in the butt before it becomes common place and acceptable.

I know that this is at least partially redundant with other responses, but that's really not how you PR. Backseat directors/leaders really like this idea "sending a strong message," but what they perceive as strutting and being authoritative comes across very clearly as being sensitive and petty. If we're assigning any approach as being "strong," it's not letting some loser with a keyboard affect how you produce your game, and not holding a stupid insult as being more important than the work of the artists who implemented the thing in the first place because you told them to.
And at the cost of your own dignity and that of several innocent employees, what's the reward? A slightly smaller game and the guarantee that a bunch of other idiots on the internet will false flag for characters they want cut because they've seen that you can be provoked as easily as a toddler.