Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Troykv]

In Melee, Dr. Mario would be an echo I think. I think he would still be considered an echo if it weren't for Mario using his FLUDD.

It's hard to say, because Dr. Mario has some altered properties; specially with his speed overall.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

But Doctor Mario isn't an echo...

Yeah, I know, but in Melee Pichu, Roy and Doc all would have qualified (most likely), since all of their character animations were the same. If you want we can just say Dark Pit instead because his arrow handles differently.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

If we're already off the customer moves debate sorry, but once again what's so bad about other characters using their customs? I mean if Miis should be allowed I don't see why it her characters couldn't??? It's way less variation than the Mii moves anyway.

I don't even play competitive so whatever lol, I would perfer customs to be out though. The only way I would like them is if every character had Palutena style one's, but I know that's never happening lol.

Yeah, I know, but in Melee Pichu, Roy and Doc all would have qualified (most likely), since all of their character animations were the same. If you want we can just say Dark Pit instead because his arrow handles differently.

Also on that note I do not understand why Pichu isn't an echo. Is it literally just the damaging itself thing? Has anyone noticed any other differences? Really should be one Imo...

 

[Will]

Does anyone know whether the crowd chant in this video is Ridley’s or Zelda’s? What is the crowd saying?

Roughly 55 seconds in.

Zelda, Ridley doesn't have that type of æ pronounciation in its name.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's hard to say, because Dr. Mario has some altered properties; specially with his speed overall.

Pretty much, the clones in Melee were still different enough. Dr. Mario and Falco were the least changed. Pichu has a different body shape to a degree, so couldn't be an Echo. The other properties, like the self-damage, wouldn't matter whether an Echo, Clone, Semi-Clone, or Unique.

 

[Sharkarat]

Since we're on the topic of custom moves, what if some of the custom moves from smash 4 were re-implemented into echo character's movesets? Custom moves reuse the same animations but have different properties, much like how echo characters have the same attack animations with different properties.

On that idea I would like
- Dry Bowser with Dash Slash & Fire Shot.
- Chrom With Close Combat & Aether Drive.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Does anyone know whether the crowd chant in this video is Ridley’s or Zelda’s? What is the crowd saying?

Roughly 55 seconds in.

Almost positive it's GO RIDLEY GO! GO RIDLEY GO! Lol it's cute

Zelda, Ridley doesn't have that type of æ pronounciation in its name.

I don't hear Zelda at all, and you can definitely hear the -eee at the end of Ridley. Go Ridley go.

Edit: Whoops...

 

[Enderwoman]

It's difficult to attribute being an echo fighter to characters introduced before the concept since there have been so many varying degrees of clones in the series, but if we take what seems to be the definition of an echo fighter in Ultimate it seems to be a character with the same animations and movement while the specific properties of the move are free game to be changed. Lets not forget Lucina has totally different hitbox properties on her sword and Dark Pit has some changes too. I suppose this definition could work with Dr. Mario, Pichu and Roy in Melee where he was very similar to this but begins to get questionable when you consider Ganondorf and Young Link in Melee who share many properties with their counterparts but at the same time don't.

 

[Will]

I don't hear Zelda at all, and you can definitely hear the -eee at the end of Ridley. Go Ridley go.

Edit: Whoops...

You hear Go Ridley Go, I hear "ZELDA *grunt* ZELDA *grunt*"

 

[Zerp]

If we're already off the customer moves debate sorry, but once again what's so bad about other characters using their customs? I mean if Miis should be allowed I don't see why it her characters couldn't??? It's way less variation than the Mii moves anyway.

The reason why people give an exception to the Miis is because Smash 4 allows you to use their customs even when Customs are turned off, the game marks them as a exception.

Also on that note I do not understand why Pichu isn't an echo. Is it literally just the damaging itself thing? Has anyone noticed any other differences? Really should be one Imo...

You're right that he probably should be a echo if they changed nothing but look at my signature, he can now stun his enemies, and they might have changed some other things as well.

 

[N3ON]

1400 pages ago...

Picture all those characters and Daisy get in... and then people start seriously requesting like... Birdo. It'd feel weird, wouldn't it?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If we're already off the customer moves debate sorry, but once again what's so bad about other characters using their customs? I mean if Miis should be allowed I don't see why it her characters couldn't??? It's way less variation than the Mii moves anyway.

I don't even play competitive so whatever lol, I would perfer customs to be out though. The only way I would like them is if every character had Palutena style one's, but I know that's never happening lol.


Also on that note I do not understand why Pichu isn't an echo. Is it literally just the damaging itself thing? Has anyone noticed any other differences? Really should be one Imo...

Pichu has some different animations, as well as possibly weight and the obvious height different too. Pichu's upsmash uses its head instead of its tail. It was stated that echoes use animations, weight, and speed of their base. While Pichu shares many things with Pikachu, it is not 1:1.

 

[monadoboy]

Does anyone know whether the crowd chant in this video is Ridley’s or Zelda’s? What is the crowd saying?

Roughly 55 seconds in.

Bigger question is what the heck is Ridley doing in his victory animation? Looks creepy as **** (that's a good thing with Rids)

 

[Lyndis_]

I'll give you one more because I don't like the idea of people thinking I got off to hide with my tail between my legs.

First of all, its actually hilarious that you think no one agrees with me. If that were the case Miis would use customs. I don't make the rules.


Jokes on yall I'm just the only one dumb enough to try arguing against the vocal minority.

I mean, I guess I'd find it pretty funny too if I thought that. I guess it's a good thing I never said that, then?

I don't see how it's a good argument for your point either way. It doesn't matter if people agree with something if it's wrong.

It is, however, disappointing that instead of refuting what I say you're just going to write it off as "vocal minority" when you have no evidence for this other than the fact the rulesets are in place, of which, we all know are not made by the majority and are generally pretty conservative about their rules.

 

[Sharkarat]

Checking the wiki Pichu in melee had, slower run, higher traction and is much lighter. so no, Pichu (at least melee version) do not work as an echo.

 

[MainJPW]

Bigger question is what the heck is Ridley doing in his victory animation? Looks creepy as **** (that's a good thing with Rids)

It looks like he's ripping someone to pieces.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Doesn't Pichu have a few different moves compared to Pikachu?

 

[KingBroly]

Bigger question is what the heck is Ridley doing in his victory animation? Looks creepy as **** (that's a good thing with Rids)

He's eating, obviously.

 

[New_Dumal]

While I like the concept of custom-moves, I dislike a lot how they were made into the game.
I also think that every possible dev-work in Custom Moves can be more useful to the game in other way.
I say this because there is this toggle "Custom Move ON/OFF". And I don't see this toggle being used too much, even when I play in a more casual environment. I know no people who mainly plays with Custom Moves.

For the concept to be used in competitive gameplay, A LOT of work must be done.Custom adds a giant variable to the balacing problem, since a custom move can be OP in certain MU and be ok in another one.
It's a bit similar to item balance in MOBAs games. Items adds much depth to the game, but it requires a lot of work in the balacing.Casual players rarely invest that much in the game to unlock every single custom. It's a painful grind.

About giving this moves to Echo Figthers, I don't think they're exactly that different from their echoed counterparts.
It would change how they play and I'd probably enjoy this, if they treat it carefully.

List of obvious things that could be done instead of Custom Moves:

• New characters
• New stages
• New modes
• Adventure mode
• Balance
• Work in Online.

And the list goes on and on.

 

[Sonic Poke]

1400 pages ago...

Jesus, we seriously have a prophet among us.

 

[Will]

List of obvious things that could be done instead of Custom Moves:

90% of Custom Moves are already in the game if they were to bring them back, though? They're not that complicated to create.

 

[SlickWylde]

1400 pages ago...

You are responsible for us being in the darkest timeline, thanks...

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

90% of Custom Moves are already in the game if they were to bring them back, though? They're not that complicated to create.

Well it's doubtful they'd work properly if they were ported straight over from 4 due to the general differences in the game engine. They'd still have to fix and adjust (12 x ~55) moves + moves for all the returning characters and newcomers. That's a lot of work even if they port it over.

 

[Lyndis_]

The only custom moves I'd miss are Mega Man's. I loved being able to choose different abilities from different Mega Man games, and being able to pick Beat over Rush Coil was a nice touch.

If all custom moves were like that, I'd be much more fond of them.

Honestly, Mortal Kombat X is probably the ideal way for custom moves to be implemented into play if they ever did return.

 

[StrangeMann]

Jesus, we seriously have a prophet among us.

We must ask for guidance. What are the next newcomers? Who's going to be our echo fighters? How many are in the final roster?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

We must ask for guidance. What are the next newcomers? Who's going to be our echo fighters? How many are in the final roster?

I wouldn't ask N3ON about Echo fighters if I were you

 

[Will]

We must ask for guidance. What are the next newcomers? Who's going to be our echo fighters? How many are in the final roster?

If he says Goku we're doomed.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Man, it feels like ages since I've been here. Good to see the forum's still around.

On the topic of Birdo, I wouldn't mind if she got to show up, firing eggs is something to help stand her out a bit, and I wonder how they'd handle her be playable in Kingdom II.

 

[StrangeMann]

I wouldn't ask N3ON about Echo fighters if I were you

Oh come on, what's the worst thing that could hap-

Okay, what's the second worst thing that could happen?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd love for custom moves and equipment to return. But yes, they will be hard to balance.

The way they were unlocked was really poorly done. I don't mind the RNG, but when you can get the same move over and over as is(I can somewhat understand getting the same move on one run, but once you already have it fully and the run is over, meaning the data is 100% recorded and finished, there's no excuse) it becomes a serious pain.

At the very least, Target Blast was a fun way to collect 'em. But they shouldn't be hidden behind an unlock condition anymore. At the very least, Miis should have them to further make their avatar settings better.

 

[Arcadenik]

Honestly i barely used custom moves

Same. I only use custom moves for Mii Fighters. And I rarely play Mii Fighters.

If I wanted to play as a Mii, I'd play as Wandering Hero... oh wait.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Same. I only use custom moves for Mii Fighters. And I rarely play Mii Fighters.

If I wanted to play as a Mii, I'd play as Wandering Hero... oh wait.

But if you want to play as a wandering hero, you can play as one of 3 Links instead.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I seriusly don't care for equipment but custom moves are a cool concept. I would love if they improved them. Being able to choose moves from past smash games would be a good way to start.
Like, having transformation as an option for Zelda or Rock Smash for Charizard.

 

[?????????????]

Not sure if anyone showed this off, and it’s 100% fanmade (fake), but man...

This made me excited at the prospect of Karate Joe, who was ALREADY one of my Top 10 most wanted newcomers.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Changing palutena's custom moves could just be a way to make her default moveset more viable, doesn't necessarily mean customs are gone

Agreed. Until we get more news from Sakurai, we can't assume that custom specials are dead.

Anyway, Palutena could potentially follow all the other fighters now, in that her custom specials are simply different variants of her default specials. For an example, Autoreticle could have a custom variant that has a shorter animation length, but the projectiles deal less damage than normal.

 

[DraginHikari]

Mostly....but...

This was Toad's deconfirmation pic in Smash 4, day of the direct that Rosalina was announced as playable.

Also famously this;

I didn't even want Chrom and I felt bad.

Though I think people would throw a fit because it would be one more Fire Emblem character. I almost want Chrom as a Echo Fighter to bring the whole " I guess I'll get my chance other day" full circle.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Though I think people would throw a fit because it would be one more Fire Emblem character. I almost want Chrom as a Echo Fighter to bring the whole " I guess I'll get my chance other day" full circle.

You're not alone, trust me. I was never a big fan of Chrom as a FE rep pre-Robin and Corrin, but now we have FE characters that can do things other than standard swords, I'm sort of wanting to see Chrom join his bff/sometimes wife and daughter on the Smash battlefield.

 

[KMDP]

With the sheer volume of characters in Smash Ultimate, does anyone think they'll change how All-Star works? And if so, what do you think they'll change it to?

Of course, this is even assuming they decide to bring All-Star back. (They probably will, but still.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Valid point. However, consider the following.

Sweetspotted Ridley down-B with +300 attack stat.

In Smash Wii U, +200 is the highest possible value you can achieve with equipment. It should also be noted that some equipment bonus effects can increase a fighter's offense, defense, or speed even further.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

On that idea I would like
- Dry Bowser with Dash Slash & Fire Shot.
- Chrom With Close Combat & Aether Drive.

Aether Drive would work great for Chrom, as it looks and acts similar to the attack he does in the awakening cutscenes.

I want Funky Kong to have Storm Punch and Kong Cyclone for a really fun windbox focused moveset.