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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Curious Villager

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With the sheer volume of characters in Smash Ultimate, does anyone think they'll change how All-Star works? And if so, what do you think they'll change it to?

Of course, this is even assuming they decide to bring All-Star back. (They probably will, but still.)
They'll probably just add another Heart Container or two at the rest area and call it a day.

Not sure about the ordering though, probably in order of every characters inclusion since that seems to be this game's running theme...
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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What do you think the chances of Impa getting in as Sheiks echo fighter are? It makes sense given that they are both Sheikah, and Sheik likely learned the ways of the Sheikah from Impa. I think if they go with her OoT design it can totally work.
IMG_1607.JPG
She even has that knife on her back, which would let her copy Sheik's new Final Smash. They can make her slightly taller than Sheik like how Lucina is slightly shorter than Marth. Plus if we can have Lucina fight like Marth despite the fact that she doesn't fight that way in Awakening I don't see why Impa can't fight like Sheik.
 
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Sonic Poke

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With the sheer volume of characters in Smash Ultimate, does anyone think they'll change how All-Star works? And if so, what do you think they'll change it to?

Of course, this is even assuming they decide to bring All-Star back. (They probably will, but still.)
I think it would be rad if they made us fight each character one by one. Of course with some knockback boost and quick transitions, restoring your health instantaneously.

It would be a long series of fights with a very good reward at the end. Like, for example, chapters of an extra adventure mode.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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What do you think the chances of Impa getting in as Sheiks echo fighter are? It makes sense given that they are both Sheikah, and Sheik likely learned the ways of the Sheikah from Impa. I think if they go with her OoT design it can totally work. View attachment 149140 She even has that nife on her back, which would let her copy Sheik's new Final Smash. They can make her slightly taller than Sheik like how Lucina is slightly shorter than Marth. Plus if we can have Lucina fight like Marth despite the fact that she doesn't fight that way in Awakening I don't see why Impa can't fight like Sheik.
I'd prefer her Oracles appearance. Though ironically that would only work as a semi-clone/unique newcomer. Regular Impa works well as an Echo or Clone due to having enough similar abilities to Sheik(and perhaps a little with others like Zelda).


bestimpaever2.jpg
 

Hinata

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In Smash Wii U, +200 is the highest possible value you can achieve with equipment. It should also be noted that some equipment bonus effects can increase a fighter's offense, defense, or speed even further.
Ah, damn. I couldn't remember the exact max value you could achieve, so I just went with what came to mind first.

My hypothetical still stands, though.
 

Lady Byakugan

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Why should anyone care about what's realistic and/or noteworthy more than what they want?
Also, the second part of the sentence is entirely subjective.
Same reason why Goku or a Mankey won't make it into the game. Not realistic. Not noteworthy. And there are far better, more unique, plausible options. Likewise, there are tons of Mario characters that are more noteworthy and unique than Waluigi
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Ah, damn. I couldn't remember the exact max value you could achieve, so I just went with what came to mind first.

My hypothetical still stands, though.
Going for +200 attack does come with a drawback though. You may hit harder, but your defenses will end up being worse than normal.
 
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lltacx

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Not to disagreee with your point about Waluigi, but... I'm gonna have to disagree on that one in particular.
Sure, there was clearly a lot of effort put into the game, everyone back, Ridley is in, etc. But that doesn't mean everyone has be happy about the game.
While I do think the game is going to be great either way, I know for a fact that I will not be buying this game at all if a certain character makes it in.
Does it justify being a **** to the creator? Of course not.
Is it valid? Yes. Not everyone has to be happy about everything, and they have a right to choose how to spend their money.
Just sayin.
What certain character would not make you want to buy the game?
 

MoonlitIllusion

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What do you think the chances of Impa getting in as Sheiks echo fighter are? It makes sense given that they are both Sheikah, and Sheik likely learned the ways of the Sheikah from Impa. I think if they go with her OoT design it can totally work. View attachment 149140 She even has that knife on her back, which would let her copy Sheik's new Final Smash. They can make her slightly taller than Sheik like how Lucina is slightly shorter than Marth. Plus if we can have Lucina fight like Marth despite the fact that she doesn't fight that way in Awakening I don't see why Impa can't fight like Sheik.
No one likes Ocarina of Time Impa though lol

I still want a unique Skyward Sword Impa with a moveset inspired by the magic she uses in that game and the monks in breath of the wild tbh, maybe give her the runes too since no one else is really using them except for link's one move
 
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Hinata

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Going for +200 attack does come with a drawback though. You may hit harder, but your defenses will end up being worse than normal.
Well, yeah, but my hypothetical was more talking about just how much damage an attack like Ridley's down-B, which already does 50% when sweetspotted, would do when enhanced by equipment. Wasn't really thinking about the drawbacks of the equipment.
 

SuperMasterHand

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Since we're on the topic of custom moves, what if some of the custom moves from smash 4 were re-implemented into echo character's movesets? Custom moves reuse the same animations but have different properties, much like how echo characters have the same attack animations with different properties.
They wouldn't be echoes then, they would be semi-clones (like dr mario)
 

Hinata

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So why are Pichu and DrMario (for exemple) not echoes then ?
Because of the edits to Mario and Pikachu's movesets, Pichu and Dr. Mario now have slightly different movesets than their source characters. For example, Mario and Dr. Mario have different down-Bs and down airs.

Changing the properties of a move wouldn't make a character a semi-clone, but changing a move entirely would.
 

zeldasmash

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So why are Pichu and DrMario (for exemple) not echoes then ?
Dr. Mario has quite a few differences from Mario this time around.

Not only do their moves have different attributes, Doc has a different Down B and has a Ganondorf style down air this time.

Pichu has a different gimmick then Pikachu, has less weight and is smaller in size.
 
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DarkFalcon

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I think clones and echoes are considered different based on frame data. I mean, unless they gave Lucina a tipper she's considered an echo despite her sword damage being different.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Well, yeah, but my hypothetical was more talking about just how much damage an attack like Ridley's down-B, which already does 50% when sweetspotted, would do when enhanced by equipment. Wasn't really thinking about the drawbacks of the equipment.
There are ways to get attacks to deal a ridiculous amount of damage with any fighter, but it does come down to what equipment the fighter is using.

The following screenshot is impossible to achieve without the necessary bonus effects.

 

Zinith

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On the subject of Birdo, I don't know if she would work as an Echo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen her engage in any vore (for a lack of a better term, don't kill me) related incidents, which is kind of half of Yoshi's theme...
 

Hinata

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There are ways to get attacks to deal a ridiculous amount of damage with any fighter, but it does come down to what equipment the fighter is using.

The following screenshot is impossible to achieve without the necessary bonus effects.

Yup, that's about what I would expect from equipment. To be honest, while I can live with the lack of custom moves, I'll kinda miss the stat-changing stuff.
 

Shyy_Guy595

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There has to be a Classic Mode by means of there being FD. CM also typcially has things like Break the Targets among others within it. I forget if Sm4sh's had Target Blast in it.
 

SuperMasterHand

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The exact difference between semi clones and echoes should officially be stated, even I (who clearly see the difference between Dark pit and Pichu) am confused if a XXX new character would be considered as an echoe or not.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Yup, that's about what I would expect from equipment. To be honest, while I can live with the lack of custom moves, I'll kinda miss the stat-changing stuff.
My hope is that the custom specials come back, but we're also given the option to disable equipment if we want to.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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On the subject of Birdo, I don't know if she would work as an Echo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen her engage in any vore (for a lack of a better term, don't kill me) related incidents, which is kind of half of Yoshi's theme...
Yeah, they'd need to at least change the grab and neutral special. That being said though if they made birdo a semi-clone I wouldn't be upset, we love an lgbt icon
 

Hinata

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The exact difference between semi clones and echoes should officially be stated, even I (who clearly see the difference between Dark pit and Pichu) am confused if a XXX new character would be considered as an echoe or not.
Characters are considered an Echo Fighter if their moveset is exactly like their source character, just with different hitboxes/knockback. For example, Lucina is an Echo of Marth because, even though she doesn't have the tipper mechanic, all of her moves are exactly the same as Marth's, animation-wise.
 

Shyy_Guy595

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On the subject of Birdo, I don't know if she would work as an Echo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen her engage in any vore (for a lack of a better term, don't kill me) related incidents, which is kind of half of Yoshi's theme...
Sakurai doesn't care. Though it WOULD look aesthetically weird to see a tongue come out of her, er... hole...
 

Murlough

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I mean, I guess I'd find it pretty funny too if I thought that. I guess it's a good thing I never said that, then?

I don't see how it's a good argument for your point either way. It doesn't matter if people agree with something if it's wrong.

It is, however, disappointing that instead of refuting what I say you're just going to write it off as "vocal minority" when you have no evidence for this other than the fact the rulesets are in place, of which, we all know are not made by the majority and are generally pretty conservative about their rules.
Lets cut the crap, you and I straight up will not agree on this. We both are standing firm. And i DID try and the responses can basically be summed up as "lmao your wrong."

I said I was done pages ago (jokes on me) and this will never go anywhere anyway so can we stop already?
 

Shyy_Guy595

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Yeah, they'd need to at least change the grab and neutral special. That being said though if they made birdo a semi-clone I wouldn't be upset, we love an lgbt icon
That's a whole lot of controversy, however. Easily would be one of the most divisive newcomers

Also, isn't BIrdo a male in Japan? Or do they now call Birdo a she?
 
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SuperMasterHand

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Characters are considered an Echo Fighter if their moveset is exactly like their source character, just with different hitboxes/knockback. For example, Lucina is an Echo of Marth because, even though she doesn't have the tipper mechanic, all of her moves are exactly the same as Marth's, animation-wise.
So an echoe fighter could as well change his speed/weight or would that make a semi clone ?
It's important to know, because most of the Newcomers echoes speculations are actually semi-clone around the internet
 

MopedOfJustice

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Because they have entirely different moves or different body shapes. Or different weight parameters.

They've been regular clones since Melee, and later appearances.
There's no real evidence for the anatomy distinction you're making. It's not like is someone said Treeko could be an echo of Ivysaur, Pichu and Pikachu both have the same basic shape, it's just that one has the neck drawn in. Clearly that didn't make much of a difference in production either, since he was a last minute clone. There's probably more difference in model between Lucina and Marth because of her hair.

Edit: And there's no way weight is a distinction, it's just a number and there's no reason an echo couldn't have a different one.
 
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Hinata

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So an echoe fighter could as well change his speed/weight or would that make a semi clone ?
It's important to know, because most of the Newcomers echoes speculations are actually semi-clone around the internet
Yeah, an Echo Fighter could be faster/slower than their source character, but as long as their moveset is exactly the same as their source character, even with some minor hitbox/knockback changes, they're an Echo.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Characters are considered an Echo Fighter if their moveset is exactly like their source character, just with different hitboxes/knockback. For example, Lucina is an Echo of Marth because, even though she doesn't have the tipper mechanic, all of her moves are exactly the same as Marth's, animation-wise.
Don't forget that the skeleton has the to be the same and their weight and speed(not the speed of the moves, but the speed of the character) need to be the same. Clones like Falco, who are near identical to Fox, are different.

There's no real evidence for the anatomy distinction you're making. It's not like is someone said Treeko could be an echo of Ivysaur, Pichu and Pikachu both have the same basic shape, it's just that one has the neck drawn in. Clearly that didn't make much of a difference in production either, since he was a last minute clone. There's probably more difference in model between Lucina and Marth because of her hair.

Edit: And there's no way weight is a distinction, it's just a number and there's no reason an echo couldn't have a different one.
Actually, yes, it is a distinction. They explained the official echo stuff. They cannot have a different weight or character speed. Attack animations are nearly the same, with slight alterations allowed. Final Smash, Idle Animations, and Taunts(and obviously voices) are allowed to be far more different compared to the rest.
 

Shyy_Guy595

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Anyone thinking Toad's newly expanded role of Peach's protector who actively takes part in the fight is a nod towards Toad supporters? Maybe even Sakurai showing he CAN make a Toad work?
 

Hinata

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Don't forget that the skeleton has the to be the same and their weight and speed(not the speed of the moves, but the speed of the character) need to be the same. Clones like Falco, who are near identical to Fox, are different.
Ah, you're right. I forgot about that part.
 

Troykv

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The Echo possibilities are making us crazy; me included XD

I need Micaiah in some way, please; this time actually make her appear in the game :colorful:
 
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Teeb147

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Falco and Ganon used to be clones but they changed little by little, and now Ganon even has his sword for smashes. Dr.Mario always had different weight, but let's be real, it's a clone character..
 

MopedOfJustice

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And i DID try and the responses can basically be summed up as "lmao your wrong."
Never responded to me
There's something ironic about saying "notice me senpai" to someone with a Mimikyu avatar...

Actually, yes, it is a distinction. They explained the official echo stuff. They cannot have a different weight or character speed. Attack animations are nearly the same, with slight alterations allowed. Final Smash, Idle Animations, and Taunts(and obviously voices) are allowed to be far more different compared to the rest.
Where'd they say anything about weight and speed? I thought the only rule was for attack animations/hitbox locations being ported over since that seems to be the main point of saved effort.
 
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