Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I have news to show.
It's about Megaman.

Megaman 30th anniversary event



What kind of surprises await in the Megaman Anniversary event?

Well, speaking of Megaman, i expected the Zero (From Megaman Zero) appear in the new Smash Bros for Switch, because he have a cool moveset using a Buster, Shield Boomerang, Triple Rod, Chain Rod, Recoil Rod and Z-Knuckle (is it making a kirby clone, knowing that Z-Knuckle can steal enemy weaponry?).

I'd imagine the Z-Knuckle would steal items like bananas, bombs, pokeballs, etc.

 

[ShinyRegice]

I have posted in what situation we may be when it comes to Smash for Switch, however I think we might discuss what Sakurai is potentially doing, and what it may mean for said Smash.

So Sakurai said in early 2016 fter the release of the final Smash DLC wave that he was taking some "extended vacation", but what does that mean? A few weeks? Two months? Half a year? There were a few balance updates after the release of the final DLC, one in March and the other in June, but to which extent was Sakurai involved in this? He also said as early as January 2016 that his next project has been decided already. Well actually, I kind feel like said project is not guaranteed to be Smash Bros. We may look at what he worked on in the past to set precedents:

Arcana (1992) — Special thanks
Kirby's Dream Land (1992) — Director, designer
Kirby's Adventure (1993) — Director, designer
Kirby Super Star (1996) — Director
Super Smash Bros. (1999) — Director
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (2000) — Voice actor (King Dedede)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) — Director
Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land (2002) — Director
Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (2002) — Special thanks
Kirby Air Ride (2003) — Director
Kirby & the Amazing Mirror (2004) — Special advisor
Meteos (2005) — Designer
Kouchuu Ouja: MushiKing -- Greatest Champion e no Michi (2005) — Designer
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008) — Director, scenario writer, voice actor (King Dedede)
Kid Icarus: Uprising (2012) — Director, scenario writer
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014) — Director, voice actor (King Dedede)

I think we can mostly ignore things like voice acting and special thanks since these imply much less involvement on the games overall compred to being director, designer, or scenario writer. So we can look at what games he worked on between each Smash instalment. Between 64 and Melee he only did some voice acting for Kirby 64, and the time gap between the two is very low. The gap between Melee and Brawl was much longer, and with more game he was involved in too, with two where he was director, two designer, and one special advisor. And between Brawl and 3DS/Wii U there was only KI Uprising.

Since Sakurai said that his next project was already decided before the last DLC wave was even released I strongly doubt he was enthusiast about working on a brand new Smash. Sure, there's the rather short transition from 64 to Melee, but the situation was quite different at the time. Sakurai wanted to improve upon the rather experimental Smash 64, not to mention there's less content overall than more recent Smash games, making a short development time - barely more than one year - possible (although exhausting according to Sakurai himself). After Melee the series' reputation became established, so it's unlikely that Sakurai may ever want to do a new Smash with the same mindset as when he wanted to make Melee after 64. In the other two cases Sakurai worked on other projects before making the next Smash, and there actually were external incitation to make these new Smash games. Iwata had influence in Brawl existing in the first place, by announcing a Smash for Wii while it was not even planned, and he had a similar influence on Smash 4, by announcing it when Sakurai was still working on KI:U. In addition, Iwata suggested Sakurai to develop a game for the then-upcoming 3DS in July 2008 (which of course happened to be Kid Icarus: Uprising), so not too long after the release of Brawl, and also said that it shouldn't be another Smash game so soon.

Speaking of KI:U, development actually started before the 3DS development kit was even available, thus Sakurai and his team started developping the game on Wii and PC before the release of said kit. I didn't find more exact information about when the game's development started or when the kit for 3DS was made available, so unless someone can give these informations we can only speculate. We have a better idea of the development time for Smash 4 though, not counting all the post-release stuff: development for it started early 2012, so if we assume development for the 3DS version stopped a few months before its release, then we might have a development time of 2½ years, probably a bit more for the Wii U version. I'm mentioning this because it's relevant if Sakurai wants to work on a project other than a Smash port (since a brand new Smash seems highly implausible anyway), which can give us an idea of when he can start working on Smash after he finishes whatever else he may be working on, and how much time a new Smash game may release after that. We should keep in mind that Iwata specifically suggested Sakurai to do something other than Smash to not have another game from that series so soon, but the Wii U was not released yet at the time KI:U released. On the other hand the Switch was released barely one year after the last wave of Smash DLC, so the situation is not exactly the same either.

So what data can we extract from all of that?
- Melee was completely Sakurai's own idea, while Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were due to Iwata's influence;
- Iwata's not alive anymore, so it won't be a factor for a potential future Smash;
- Sakurai took the time to develop other games during each gap between two Smash games after Melee;
- as I explained in my previous post, the 3DS version and the freshness of the DLCs and amiibo made that it's too early to make a Smash Wii U port for the sake of keeping the Switch's momentum similar to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in its early life.

So what is Sakurai working on right now?

Case 1: a brand new, fifth generation Smash game
Very, very unlikely. The differences in context between the pre-Melee times and today, and the fact it hasn't been announced yet (remember that both Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were publicly announced before Sakurai started working on them) make this almost impossible to believe for me.

Case 2: an enhanced Smash Wii U port
Already more likely than the previous case. This hypothetical case is tempting to be compared with MK8D, which was basically made for the sake of giving momentum for the Switch very early in its lifetime, by porting a popular game from a now dead and irrelevant console and hoping to make it even more popular on the system Nintendo now wants to promote and has a better chance of being successful. But assuming it releases in 2019, then the "give the Switch momentum" case becomes a bit weaker. At that time we can expect the Switch's library to already be fairly wide, however the case is not completely irrelevant if Nintendo sees Smash as a strong system seller and that releasing it sooner than later will offer a unique opportunity at giving it some new kind of momentum the system isn't going to get otherwise. Such a scenario would also imply that Sakurai wants a wider audience to get the full HD Smash experience without having to have to wait too long for it or to not take the risk of releasing it too late in the system's lifespan, or that someone else other than Iwata at Nintendo told him to work on that port. If this is the route Sakurai is taking and Smash for Switch is still a continuation of the fourth generation of Super Smash Bros. rather than something completely new, then it makes sense that it hasn't been announced yet, due to the DLCs and amiibo still making Smash 4 feel somewhat fresh right now. Indeed announcing that a game still in people's mind is going to get a MK8D-like port similar to how Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were announced before we were shown gameplay... it's not what's going to make the fans particularly interested. And describing it as an actual new Smash while it's actually just an enhanced port would be a bad communication move as it would set the expectation bar too high.

Case 3: a non-Smash game
This case would justify making a brand new Smash that starts a new generation, once said non-Smash game is released. The only thing against the idea is that it's basically going to make Smash for Switch release several years from now, which may be late in the Switch's lifespan. While we don't have exact informations about it, I speculate that we could say that KI:U took around 2½ years of development and not be too far from the truth. Assuming development started one year ago, that would mean that said game would be released in late 2018 at the earliest, and that Smash would release even later. Under the conditions of Sakurai working on a new non-Smash game then working on a fifth generation Smash game, we would not get the chance of playing it before mid 2021. That would mean Smash for Switch would release late in the system's lifespan, but I feel like Smash is one of those games Nintendo would rather see be released not later than during the first half of the system's lifespan, due to being an established fan-anticipated series with the power of selling systems. But maybe they're confident enough in their other titles and feel like other games released before it would make Smash unnecessary on the sole base of its system selling power.

Case 4: more than one game at the same time
Nope.

tl;dr Considering the precedents and the unique current context, we could assume there are two likely possibilities:
- Sakurai and/or Nintendo want players to experience Smash HD on Switch relatively early during the system's lifespan. However due to circumstances, it makes sense to not release it too early like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. This would explain why we haven't heard of it yet, while meaning a Smash Wii U port prior to 2020;
- Sakurai wants to work on something else which means he's not going to work on Smash before quite some time, but that would mean Nintendo is confident enough that they don't need Smash's unique appeal to make the Switch's momentum keeping going on for the few years to come.

This is of course not supposed to be the great Smash truth, it's just a bunch of educated guesses based on claims I tried to source to the best extent possible. For those who have missed, I explained why I believe Smash being on 3DS too is part of why we haven't heard of Smash for Switch yet in my previous post. Again, can't wait to be proven wrong in the future

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have posted in what situation we may be when it comes to Smash for Switch, however I think we might discuss what Sakurai is potentially doing, and what it may mean for said Smash.

So Sakurai said in early 2016 fter the release of the final Smash DLC wave that he was taking some "extended vacation", but what does that mean? A few weeks? Two months? Half a year? There were a few balance updates after the release of the final DLC, one in March and the other in June, but to which extent was Sakurai involved in this? He also said as early as January 2016 that his next project has been decided already. Well actually, I kind feel like said project is not guaranteed to be Smash Bros. We may look at what he worked on in the past to set precedents:

Arcana (1992) — Special thanks
Kirby's Dream Land (1992) — Director, designer
Kirby's Adventure (1993) — Director, designer
Kirby Super Star (1996) — Director
Super Smash Bros. (1999) — Director
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (2000) — Voice actor (King Dedede)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) — Director
Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land (2002) — Director
Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (2002) — Special thanks
Kirby Air Ride (2003) — Director
Kirby & the Amazing Mirror (2004) — Special advisor
Meteos (2005) — Designer
Kouchuu Ouja: MushiKing -- Greatest Champion e no Michi (2005) — Designer
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008) — Director, scenario writer, voice actor (King Dedede)
Kid Icarus: Uprising (2012) — Director, scenario writer
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014) — Director, voice actor (King Dedede)

I think we can mostly ignore things like voice acting and special thanks since these imply much less involvement on the games overall compred to being director, designer, or scenario writer. So we can look at what games he worked on between each Smash instalment. Between 64 and Melee he only did some voice acting for Kirby 64, and the time gap between the two is very low. The gap between Melee and Brawl was much longer, and with more game he was involved in too, with two where he was director, two designer, and one special advisor. And between Brawl and 3DS/Wii U there was only KI Uprising.

Since Sakurai said that his next project was already decided before the last DLC wave was even released I strongly doubt he was enthusiast about working on a brand new Smash. Sure, there's the rather short transition from 64 to Melee, but the situation was quite different at the time. Sakurai wanted to improve upon the rather experimental Smash 64, not to mention there's less content overall than more recent Smash games, making a short development time - barely more than one year - possible (although exhausting according to Sakurai himself). After Melee the series' reputation became established, so it's unlikely that Sakurai may ever want to do a new Smash with the same mindset as when he wanted to make Melee after 64. In the other two cases Sakurai worked on other projects before making the next Smash, and there actually were external incitation to make these new Smash games. Iwata had influence in Brawl existing in the first place, by announcing a Smash for Wii while it was not even planned, and he had a similar influence on Smash 4, by announcing it when Sakurai was still working on KI:U. In addition, Iwata suggested Sakurai to develop a game for the then-upcoming 3DS in July 2008 (which of course happened to be Kid Icarus: Uprising), so not too long after the release of Brawl, and also said that it shouldn't be another Smash game so soon.

Speaking of KI:U, development actually started before the 3DS development kit was even available, thus Sakurai and his team started developping the game on Wii and PC before the release of said kit. I didn't find more exact information about when the game's development started or when the kit for 3DS was made available, so unless someone can give these informations we can only speculate. We have a better idea of the development time for Smash 4 though, not counting all the post-release stuff: development for it started early 2012, so if we assume development for the 3DS version stopped a few months before its release, then we might have a development time of 2½ years, probably a bit more for the Wii U version. I'm mentioning this because it's relevant if Sakurai wants to work on a project other than a Smash port (since a brand new Smash seems highly implausible anyway), which can give us an idea of when he can start working on Smash after he finishes whatever else he may be working on, and how much time a new Smash game may release after that. We should keep in mind that Iwata specifically suggested Sakurai to do something other than Smash to not have another game from that series so soon, but the Wii U was not released yet at the time KI:U released. On the other hand the Switch was released barely one year after the last wave of Smash DLC, so the situation is not exactly the same either.

So what data can we extract from all of that?
- Melee was completely Sakurai's own idea, while Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were due to Iwata's influence;
- Iwata's not alive anymore, so it won't be a factor for a potential future Smash;
- Sakurai took the time to develop other games during each gap between two Smash games after Melee;
- as I explained in my previous post, the 3DS version and the freshness of the DLCs and amiibo made that it's too early to make a Smash Wii U port for the sake of keeping the Switch's momentum similar to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe in its early life.

So what is Sakurai working on right now?

Case 1: a brand new, fifth generation Smash game
Very, very unlikely. The differences in context between the pre-Melee times and today, and the fact it hasn't been announced yet (remember that both Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were publicly announced before Sakurai started working on them) make this almost impossible to believe for me.

Case 2: an enhanced Smash Wii U port
Already more likely than the previous case. This hypothetical case is tempting to be compared with MK8D, which was basically made for the sake of giving momentum for the Switch very early in its lifetime, by porting a popular game from a now dead and irrelevant console and hoping to make it even more popular on the system Nintendo now wants to promote and has a better chance of being successful. But assuming it releases in 2019, then the "give the Switch momentum" case becomes a bit weaker. At that time we can expect the Switch's library to already be fairly wide, however the case is not completely irrelevant if Nintendo sees Smash as a strong system seller and that releasing it sooner than later will offer a unique opportunity at giving it some new kind of momentum the system isn't going to get otherwise. Such a scenario would also imply that Sakurai wants a wider audience to get the full HD Smash experience without having to have to wait too long for it or to not take the risk of releasing it too late in the system's lifespan, or that someone else other than Iwata at Nintendo told him to work on that port. If this is the route Sakurai is taking and Smash for Switch is still a continuation of the fourth generation of Super Smash Bros. rather than something completely new, then it makes sense that it hasn't been announced yet, due to the DLCs and amiibo still making Smash 4 feel somewhat fresh right now. Indeed announcing that a game still in people's mind is going to get a MK8D-like port similar to how Brawl and 3DS/Wii U were announced before we were shown gameplay... it's not what's going to make the fans particularly interested. And describing it as an actual new Smash while it's actually just an enhanced port would be a bad communication move as it would set the expectation bar too high.

Case 3: a non-Smash game
This case would justify making a brand new Smash that starts a new generation, once said non-Smash game is released. The only thing against the idea is that it's basically going to make Smash for Switch release several years from now, which may be late in the Switch's lifespan. While we don't have exact informations about it, I speculate that we could say that KI:U took around 2½ years of development and not be too far from the truth. Assuming development started one year ago, that would mean that said game would be released in late 2018 at the earliest, and that Smash would release even later. Under the conditions of Sakurai working on a new non-Smash game then working on a fifth generation Smash game, we would not get the chance of playing it before mid 2021. That would mean Smash for Switch would release late in the system's lifespan, but I feel like Smash is one of those games Nintendo would rather see be released not later than during the first half of the system's lifespan, due to being an established fan-anticipated series with the power of selling systems. But maybe they're confident enough in their other titles and feel like other games released before it would make Smash unnecessary on the sole base of its system selling power.

Case 4: more than one game at the same time
Nope.

tl;dr Considering the precedents and the unique current context, we could assume there are two likely possibilities:
- Sakurai and/or Nintendo want players to experience Smash HD on Switch relatively early during the system's lifespan. However due to circumstances, it makes sense to not release it too early like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. This would explain why we haven't heard of it yet, while meaning a Smash Wii U port prior to 2020;
- Sakurai wants to work on something else which means he's not going to work on Smash before quite some time, but that would mean Nintendo is confident enough that they don't need Smash's unique appeal to make the Switch's momentum keeping going on for the few years to come.

This is of course not supposed to be the great Smash truth, it's just a bunch of educated guesses based on claims I tried to source to the best extent possible. For those who have missed, I explained why I believe Smash being on 3DS too is part of why we haven't heard of Smash for Switch yet in my previous post. Again, can't wait to be proven wrong in the future

We KNOW Sakurai's working on something that has to do with a mech toy, so unless he's working on two games, it isn't with Sakurai for a bit

 

[ShinyRegice]

We KNOW Sakurai's working on something that has to do with a mech toy, so unless he's working on two games, it isn't with Sakurai for a bit

Well, to be fair I was completely oblivious of this. That means Sakurai isn't working on Smash right now. I don't know if anyone is in the same case as me, so I'm putting here a link as a source. Thank you for proving me wrong right now rather than in the next year

Or maybe there's a Smash 4 port but with no new character (except maybe ICs since they were apparently worked on), just the DLCs in the base game but very little new content with little involvement from Sakurai, maybe just him being a special advisor or something. Or someone else takes Sakurai's place to add new content but that seems unlikely to me.

With this in mind I guess the most reasonable option is to be on #TeamWait now.

Edit: I actually read my link less superficially and we can't really conclude that Sakurai is working on a project other than Smash, although we can't exclude it either. What the article says is that Sakurai is using the toy as a reference for his work, not that he's working on a project about mechs. It's easy to jump to the conclusion that he's working on an IP related to mechs, but the article is actually more open-ended than that. Maybe he's just using it as a reference to design a new fighter or boss or item or stage hazard or whatever in the hypothetical Smash port I was talking about or any other game, we can't really know. That's why it's important to fact-check news so we don't distort what interviews mean to make them say things they're not saying.

But now that I wrote it maybe I was underestimating the possibility of Smash for Switch being just Smash Wii U ported with little to no new content, possibly being biased with the fact that this idea doesn't excite me a lot. There's some precedent for that, since Brawl was going to be a Melee port with online if not for Sakurai's approval of doing a brand new Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it kind of does. It is Sakurai's game and at the end of the day, his word is law. He has repeatedly chosen to make ridley a boss character over actually being playable. If someone new were to direct smash 5, Ridley could be considered again. Most creative decisions in these games are made by Sakurai, so a new developer could open up new ideas to the series.

The mods will get uppity again over a side discussion in the other thread, so I'll post the discussion here.

You are deluding yourself if you honestly believe that Sakurai is the only thing preventing Ridley from being playable and that a new director increases the odds.
Nintendo as a whole seems to like to poke fun at Ridley's Smash support.

https://twitter.com/zoroarkrules25/status/862725715573305344

So really, what needs to change for Ridley to have a shot is not the Smash series and its developers, but the Metroid series and its developers. They need to give a canon depiction of Ridley that leaves no possible excuse for not being playable.

 

[kirbstr]

The mods will get uppity again over a side discussion in the other thread, so I'll post the discussion here.

You are deluding yourself if you honestly believe that Sakurai is the only thing preventing Ridley from being playable and that a new director increases the odds.
Nintendo as a whole seems to like to poke fun at Ridley's Smash support.

https://twitter.com/zoroarkrules25/status/862725715573305344

So really, what needs to change for Ridley to have a shot is not the Smash series and its developers, but the Metroid series and its developers. They need to give a canon depiction of Ridley that leaves no possible excuse for not being playable.

I'm not making the case that Sakurai is the ONLY thing holding Ridley back, but he is a significant factor. I'm not BLAMING him for anything, and personally I don't even think Ridley would make a good fighter, but from what we know; Sakurai makes 90% of the creative decisions in terms of the fighters. Also, to claim that the Metriod series is responsible for the fact that Ridley is not playable in Smash is just stupid. The Metriod series (or any other video game series for that matter) makes content for people based on whatever creative liberties they want to take with their characters and what they think would best fit the game they are developing or said character. Smash creates content based on other franchises, not the other way around. It should not be on the Metriod series for not having a doable depiction of Ridley for smash. Smash is not the end all be all of Video Games. Do you think Nintendo developers are thinking "oh yea I totally am going to make the character easy to implement into smash bros because my series NEEDS to be in smash"? Ofc not.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not making the case that Sakurai is the ONLY thing holding Ridley back, but he is a significant factor. I'm not BLAMING him for anything, and personally I don't even think Ridley would make a good fighter, but from what we know; Sakurai makes 90% of the creative decisions in terms of the fighters. Also, to claim that the Metriod series is responsible for the fact that Ridley is not playable in Smash is just stupid. The Metriod series (or any other video game series for that matter) makes content for people based on whatever creative liberties they want to take with their characters and what they think would best fit the game they are developing or said character. Smash creates content based on other franchises, not the other way around. It should not be on the Metriod series for not having a doable depiction of Ridley for smash. Smash is not the end all be all of Video Games. Do you think Nintendo developers are thinking "oh yea I totally am going to make the character easy to implement into smash bros because my series NEEDS to be in smash"? Ofc not.

Not to mention some characters had literally no moveset potential in their games and that didn't stop Sakurai.

Just look at Captain Falcon and the Star Fox characters, for example.

 

[Deleted member]

IAlso, to claim that the Metriod series is responsible for the fact that Ridley is not playable in Smash is just stupid. The Metriod series (or any other video game series for that matter) makes content for people based on whatever creative liberties they want to take with their characters and what they think would best fit the game they are developing or said character. Smash creates content based on other franchises, not the other way around. It should not be on the Metriod series for not having a doable depiction of Ridley for smash. Smash is not the end all be all of Video Games. Do you think Nintendo developers are thinking "oh yea I totally am going to make the character easy to implement into smash bros because my series NEEDS to be in smash"? Ofc not.

....you missed the point entirely.

Never did I say that the Metroid series is "responsible" for Ridley not being playable in Smash. Nor did I even IMPLY that the Metroid series needs to go out of their way to make sure Ridley is workable for Smash just for the sake of him being included as a playable character.

What I am actually saying is that for Ridley to have a shot, he needs a canon design within the Metroid series that does not require too many drastic alterations just to even function properly as a balanced playable fighter while still feeling like a "proper representation" of the character.
i.e. Not like the Other M design.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Other M's Little Birdie was workable.

Heck, Other M's Ridley was pretty damn workable altogheter.. of course considering it's Ridley we're talking about.

The Smash 4 stage hazzard and Brawl's two Boss Battles where already a huge bone thrown at Ridley support. And unless Smash starts endorsing canon character sizes, Ridley doesn't fit with the rest of the cast. And considering the next two Metroid games are both a remake from an older title and a continuation of Prime, don't expect any radical changes in Ridley's design.. if he even appears in said games.

I honestly never thought he was likely. Ridley support was always was too loud and obnoxious, supporters seriously overestimated his chances ever since Melee's trailer. I can appriciate the thought of Ridley being in Smash but it's certainly never likely, and never really was.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Don't go turning this into insulting fanbases now.


Ridley definitely has some issues right now. Head dev doesnt want him, we have no idea how much a new dev would care, and we have no idea when he will make another importannt appearance. His popularity after Smash For has crashed, and now he is the community punching bag, and now Sylux is probably "eating his lunch" in the fact that now Ridley doesnt even have a monopoly for people who think Metroid needs a new rep. Plus, people most likely didn't vote for him in the ballot since he was already a boss AND his popularity had already crashed, which certainly is another point against him for Smash For Switch.

A new head dev would certainly help, since an unknown chance is better than no chance, but it doesnt look great either way.

 

[Deleted member]

Other M's Little Birdie was workable.

Heck, Other M's Ridley was pretty damn workable altogheter...

If the design was workable, there would have been no question in making him playable.

And how would Little Birdie even have worked or actually represent Ridley rather than itself other than being "the first stage in Ridley's life cycle"?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Ridley people know and love is a dragon of sorts. That's the only real design that would actually work overall. Otherwise, it's not the Ridley people recognize at all.

It doesn't mean that it has to be a specific version of his dragon design. They're all very blatant it's Ridley. That's key to implementing the character.

 

[kirbstr]

If the design was workable, there would have been no question in making him playable.

Lmao, no? There are TONS and I mean TONS of characters who have unworkable designs who are in the game. Look at R.O.B or wii-fit trainer or Olimar or Cpt. Falcon or Mr. Game and watch or Duck mother ****ing hunt dog. It's not about a "workable design" It's how Sakurai wants to represent the character or how he thinks they should be represented.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Lmao, no? There are TONS and I mean TONS of characters who have unworkable designs who are in the game. Look at R.O.B or wii-fit trainer or Olimar or Cpt. Falcon or Mr. Game and watch or Duck mother ****ing hunt dog. It's not about a "workable design" It's how Sakurai wants to represent the character or how he thinks they should be represented.

This is a different kind of workable.

There is a difference between G&W or Falcon and Doshin the Giant or Kraid


One involves creating based on bits of what little we have from the series and random inspiration, the other is physical limiattions of the characters body. Ridley is the latter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Falcon was based upon Japanese superheroes and had a pretty easy build to work with. Never mind you can see similar moves from Dragon King: The Fighting Game thrown onto him, as well as a near identical character model. He was not hard to make here. Fox was harder, but they also adapted some of his items/attacks into Special Moves.

None of these are some kind of body issue. As silly as the "Ridley is too big" meme is, it's not entirely inaccurate either. He has a very long tell and a body that's pretty hard to scale down. Finding moves for Ridley is not the issue here, making his body workable very much is. And no, Project M and other mods did not make him balanced, so they aren't really good examples of it "working" well.

 

[Zerp]

I feel that Ridley is workable (I'm NOT saying he's likely) if they go with a edited and scaled down version of his older design, the only problem I really think would potentially hold that back is that a character who by design is big, fast, powerful and has a massive big disjoint is practically begging to be OP, but I can't say slowing him down (I mean in both speed and starter/end-lag) for balance's sake could make him more out of character than that jet-propulsion high-heel wearing, whip-wielding version of , can it?

Also, I'm just going to throw this out there, while I do believe it is entirely possible to balance Ridley, I don't actually have trust in the devs to be able to balance him properly, knowing them I'd bet he'll either be completely overpowered or trash competitively.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also, I'm just going to throw this out there, while I do believe it is entirely possible to balance Ridley, I don't actually have trust in the devs to be able to balance him properly, knowing them I'd bet he'll either be completely overpowered or trash competitively.

Don't worry. They'll buff his mobility on his third Smash. :V

 

[Deleted member]

Lmao, no? There are TONS and I mean TONS of characters who have unworkable designs who are in the game. Look at R.O.B or wii-fit trainer or Olimar or Cpt. Falcon or Mr. Game and watch or Duck mother ****ing hunt dog. It's not about a "workable design" It's how Sakurai wants to represent the character or how he thinks they should be represented.

Once again, you miss the entire point....

None of the those characters' designs had to be drastically altered just so they can work into the game. Ridley's does.
That is what is meant by "unworkable".

 

[N3ON]

The mods will get uppity again over a side discussion in the other thread, so I'll post the discussion here.

You are deluding yourself if you honestly believe that Sakurai is the only thing preventing Ridley from being playable and that a new director increases the odds.
Nintendo as a whole seems to like to poke fun at Ridley's Smash support.

https://twitter.com/zoroarkrules25/status/862725715573305344

So really, what needs to change for Ridley to have a shot is not the Smash series and its developers, but the Metroid series and its developers. They need to give a canon depiction of Ridley that leaves no possible excuse for not being playable.

That's really at the discretion of the director or team that chooses the characters. If he/she/they feel Ridley is feasible and include him, it's not like Nintendo is going to take prohibitive actions against that. Clearly it came down to Sakurai's view this time, not Nintendo's. Sakurai tried to make Ridley work, and in his attempts, to him, it proved impossible. There's nothing to believe Nintendo stood in the way.

Those references at his size are Nintendo thinking it's cool to be meta and stem around the uproar from the fanbase and the resulting memes (Nintendo loves tired memes), they're not indicative of how every potential future director is going to view the roster. It's like when Smash referenced Samus' inability to crawl.

I agree if Sakurai were to continue helming the series the impetus would need to come from Ridley's depiction within the Metroid series, but with a different director perhaps comes different perspectives surrounding the character's feasibility.

 

[Zerp]

Spoiler: potential huge direct spoiler, don't say I didn't warn you

Maybe it's just a mistake, but at the bottom of the official Nintendo direct Super Smash bros for Wii u and 3DS is featured. Make of that what you will.

 

[N3ON]

Spoiler: potential huge direct spoiler, don't say I didn't warn you

View attachment 132577 Maybe it's just a mistake, but at the bottom of the official Nintendo direct Super Smash bros for Wii u and 3DS is featured. Make of that what you will.

Spoiler

That's very interesting but fwiw the Japanese E3 video is tagged with Yoshi's Woolly World, a game that wasn't present.

So... grain of salt and all that~

 

[Zem-raj]

Spoiler: potential huge direct spoiler, don't say I didn't warn you

View attachment 132577 Maybe it's just a mistake, but at the bottom of the official Nintendo direct Super Smash bros for Wii u and 3DS is featured. Make of that what you will.

Spoiler

The tag for it was removed.

It was probably a mistake.

 

[AEMehr]

Whatever comes, I'll remain hopeful.

As sorry as I am to say, I'm itching for a new character to play! Been tampering with character ideas for the past couple months passively.

The character design vods @Delzethin makes are guilty pleasures that help drive my daydreams about a port/sequel. :U

 

[Vintage Creep]

A leaker on a Japanese site who predicted the day of the direct posted these words to hint at the content of the direct itself:

Ball

Trust
Mother
Envy
Reason

♪
Emperor

Electricity
TT
luck
Silver
Dragon
etc.

Supposedly, every word hints at something. My take:

Ball - hope it's Super Monkey Ball 3, might also hint at Mario Strikers or a sports game, FIFA 18?
- New Switch seems absolutely impossible, but also New Mario. May be New The Legend Of Zelda or some other franchise? Or just hint at a reveal for something new.
Trust - lol for some reason this made me think at Reggie or someone asking forgiveness for the shortages, and telling us to trust them for new shipments to come
Mother - not Earthbound, too obvious. Or not? Might be Metroid, as it's Mother Brain
Envy - no idea
Reason - Brain Training?
- Just Dance something?
♪ - Rhythm Tengoku?
Emperor - no idea
- This might be a Smash Ball. Or hint at Golden Sun
Electricity - Pikachu of course, some Ultra Sun / Moon news
TT - no idea
luck - makes me think of a party game, maybe Mario Party
Silver - no idea
Dragon - Might be anything, maybe Dragon Quest 11 announced for Switch
etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A leaker on a Japanese site who predicted the day of the direct posted these words to hint at the content of the direct itself:

Ball

Trust
Mother
Envy
Reason

♪
Emperor

Electricity
TT
luck
Silver
Dragon
etc.

Supposedly, every word hints at something. My take:

Ball - hope it's Super Monkey Ball 3, might also hint at Mario Strikers or a sports game, FIFA 18?
- New Switch seems absolutely impossible, but also New Mario. May be New The Legend Of Zelda or some other franchise? Or just hint at a reveal for something new.
Trust - lol for some reason this made me think at Reggie or someone asking forgiveness for the shortages, and telling us to trust them for new shipments to come
Mother - not Earthbound, too obvious. Or not? Might be Metroid, as it's Mother Brain
Envy - no idea
Reason - Brain Training?
- Just Dance something?
♪ - Rhythm Tengoku?
Emperor - no idea
- This might be a Smash Ball. Or hint at Golden Sun
Electricity - Pikachu of course, some Ultra Sun / Moon news
TT - no idea
luck - makes me think of a party game, maybe Mario Party
Silver - no idea
Dragon - Might be anything, maybe Dragon Quest 11 announced for Switch
etc.

Hate to break it to you but considering it's a direct about games releasing this year, as said by Nintendo themselves iirc, it likely isn't Smash. Not to mention they need to announce a Xenoblade 2 release date and the 3DS Kirby game stated for holiday 2017 they announced in April

 

[UserKev]

I'm completely over the idea of Ridley in Smash now. It actually hit me a long time ago. I can't even remember the last time I responded to or even read responses in his support thread. At this point, I just need to see Ridley officially in Smash actually happen. I'm just over it.

Mimikyu is ultimately my last want for this series.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

At this point, I just need to see Ridley officially in Smash actually happen.

He was in every game but 3DS as either a cameo or a NPC boss, actually.

I know you meant "playable", but I just couldn't resist making that joke. Please forgive me ^-^'

 

[Zerp]

A leaker on a Japanese site who predicted the day of the direct posted these words to hint at the content of the direct itself:

Ball

Trust
Mother
Envy
Reason

♪
Emperor

Electricity
TT
luck
Silver
Dragon
etc.

Supposedly, every word hints at something. My take:

Ball - hope it's Super Monkey Ball 3, might also hint at Mario Strikers or a sports game, FIFA 18?
- New Switch seems absolutely impossible, but also New Mario. May be New The Legend Of Zelda or some other franchise? Or just hint at a reveal for something new.
Trust - lol for some reason this made me think at Reggie or someone asking forgiveness for the shortages, and telling us to trust them for new shipments to come
Mother - not Earthbound, too obvious. Or not? Might be Metroid, as it's Mother Brain
Envy - no idea
Reason - Brain Training?
- Just Dance something?
♪ - Rhythm Tengoku?
Emperor - no idea
- This might be a Smash Ball. Or hint at Golden Sun
Electricity - Pikachu of course, some Ultra Sun / Moon news
TT - no idea
luck - makes me think of a party game, maybe Mario Party
Silver - no idea
Dragon - Might be anything, maybe Dragon Quest 11 announced for Switch
etc.

Interesting, I doubt that's real however because doing one word hints is kind of easy safe-betting, it's easy to claim "THIS is what I mean't by dragon, see, my leak was real guys" after the direct's over. Also, that reminds me, there was also a 4chan "leaker" who predicted the date and posted a list of characters for "Super Smash Bros. V"

Spoiler: Dubious 4Chan leak

I wouldn't put much stock in it, since September 13th is a pretty easy guess to make for Smash bros (It's when Smash 3DS came out) and it's coming from 4Chan of all places, but the fact that there's Kid Icarus + Fire Emblem but no Bandana Dee is giving me some slight fear of it being real, that's something I could actually see happening, Meat Boy and Captain Rainbow however, I don't think would be very likely, so there's that. It's probably not real. Thankfully

 

[Opossum]

Interesting, I doubt that's real however because doing one word hints is kind of easy safe-betting, it's easy to claim "THIS is what I mean't by dragon, see, my leak was real guys" after the direct's over. Also, that reminds me, there was also a 4chan "leaker" who predicted the date and posted a list of characters for "Super Smash Bros. V"

Spoiler: Dubious 4Chan leak

View attachment 132580

I wouldn't put much stock in it, since September 13th is a pretty easy guess to make for Smash bros (It's when Smash 3DS came out) and it's coming from 4Chan of all places, but the fact that there's Kid Icarus + Fire Emblem but no Bandana Dee is giving me some slight fear of it being real, that's something I could actually see happening, Meat Boy and Captain Rainbow however, I don't think would be very likely, so there's that. It's probably not real. Thankfully

It irks me when people say Cecilia instead of Celica in these fake leaks, mainly because Cecilia is a completely different and unrelated Fire Emblem character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Interesting, I doubt that's real however because doing one word hints is kind of easy safe-betting, it's easy to claim "THIS is what I mean't by dragon, see, my leak was real guys" after the direct's over. Also, that reminds me, there was also a 4chan "leaker" who predicted the date and posted a list of characters for "Super Smash Bros. V"

Spoiler: Dubious 4Chan leak

View attachment 132580

I wouldn't put much stock in it, since September 13th is a pretty easy guess to make for Smash bros (It's when Smash 3DS came out) and it's coming from 4Chan of all places, but the fact that there's Kid Icarus + Fire Emblem but no Bandana Dee is giving me some slight fear of it being real, that's something I could actually see happening, Meat Boy and Captain Rainbow however, I don't think would be very likely, so there's that. It's probably not real. Thankfully

"Please note that this is the list of planned characters, some of them could not be in the final game"

This sentence makes me very doubtful.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I miss terrible, blatantly fake leaks like this. Good times.

Now when do we get picture leaks to dissect

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I miss terrible, blatantly fake leaks like this. Good times.

Now when do we get picture leaks to dissect

I wonder when the really convincing, yet still fake leaks will show up again

 

[KniteBlargh]

Have to admit, I was simply thinking "fake" to myself while reading down that list of characters, but when I reached Meat Boy, I laughed out loud. Even Captain Rainbow is more believable than Meat Boy... LOL

I'm going to take the safe (albeit less exciting) route of guessing there won't be any news about Smash in this direct. Gosh I hope I'm wrong, though! No wait, no hope, KniteBlargh, no hope! You'll only hurt yourself!

Edit: Also, I'd just like to add that if Smash were to be touched on at all during this direct, I certainly wouldn't expect it to be Smash V. Would be rather odd timing at this point, but I wouldn't be able to see anything more than the 'deluxe edition' we've all considered many times previously.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Have to admit, I was simply thinking "fake" to myself while reading down that list of characters, but when I reached Meat Boy, I laughed out loud. Even Captain Rainbow is more believable than Meat Boy... LOL

Yeah. If any indie character makes it in Smash, it'd be Shovel Knight.

 

[DJ3DS]

More importantly, 16 new characters?!?! That seems like an absurd amount. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe only included 6 new ones and they have substantially less work needed per character.

If I were a spurious leaker I'd go for a much smaller number. Probably 6:

- 2 returning veterans (Ice Climbers + Wolf)
- 2 New Nintendo Series (Inkling + Spring-Man)
- 1 Third Party (Ray-Man)
- 1 popular/ballot inspired choice (King K. Rool)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

More importantly, 16 new characters?!?! That seems like an absurd amount. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe only included 6 new ones and they have substantially less work needed per character.

If I were a spurious leaker I'd go for a much smaller number. Probably 6:

- 2 returning veterans (Ice Climbers + Wolf)
- 2 New Nintendo Series (Inkling + Spring-Man)
- 1 Third Party (Ray-Man)
- 1 popular/ballot inspired choice (King K. Rool)

It's a Smash 5 "leak", not a Smash 4 "leak"

 

[KniteBlargh]

Yeah. If any indie character makes it in Smash, it'd be Shovel Knight.

Yeah, Shovel Knight or Shantae would be the most likely if that were ever to happen, I think.

Also, take this with a tremendous grain of salt, but Source Gaming apparently looked into that possible Direct spoiler Zerp mentioned above a bit more and discussed what they found through their experiments via Twitter. It's very possible it's still just all a big mistake, but it's interesting nonetheless. Not going to link to it since I don't want to cause trouble, just thought it was worth mentioning.

By the way, wouldn't this be a good time to update the poll for this topic so people can vote for their speculations regarding tomorrow's presentation?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

A leaker on a Japanese site who predicted the day of the direct posted these words to hint at the content of the direct itself:

Ball

Trust
Mother
Envy
Reason

♪
Emperor

Electricity
TT
luck
Silver
Dragon
etc.

Supposedly, every word hints at something. My take:

Ball - hope it's Super Monkey Ball 3, might also hint at Mario Strikers or a sports game, FIFA 18?
- New Switch seems absolutely impossible, but also New Mario. May be New The Legend Of Zelda or some other franchise? Or just hint at a reveal for something new.
Trust - lol for some reason this made me think at Reggie or someone asking forgiveness for the shortages, and telling us to trust them for new shipments to come
Mother - not Earthbound, too obvious. Or not? Might be Metroid, as it's Mother Brain
Envy - no idea
Reason - Brain Training?
- Just Dance something?
♪ - Rhythm Tengoku?
Emperor - no idea
- This might be a Smash Ball. Or hint at Golden Sun
Electricity - Pikachu of course, some Ultra Sun / Moon news
TT - no idea
luck - makes me think of a party game, maybe Mario Party
Silver - no idea
Dragon - Might be anything, maybe Dragon Quest 11 announced for Switch
etc.

The sun icon makes me think HD release of Mario Sunshine. (lol I wish it was Golden Sun)

Interesting, I doubt that's real however because doing one word hints is kind of easy safe-betting, it's easy to claim "THIS is what I mean't by dragon, see, my leak was real guys" after the direct's over. Also, that reminds me, there was also a 4chan "leaker" who predicted the date and posted a list of characters for "Super Smash Bros. V"

Spoiler: Dubious 4Chan leak

View attachment 132580

I wouldn't put much stock in it, since September 13th is a pretty easy guess to make for Smash bros (It's when Smash 3DS came out) and it's coming from 4Chan of all places, but the fact that there's Kid Icarus + Fire Emblem but no Bandana Dee is giving me some slight fear of it being real, that's something I could actually see happening, Meat Boy and Captain Rainbow however, I don't think would be very likely, so there's that. It's probably not real. Thankfully

Captain Rainbow seems exactly like the kind of wacky character Sakurai would throw in.

Meat Boy would be an odd choice for an indie representative (imo)....but I suppose he his relatively popular and I'm guessing Nintendo has formed a good relationship with the developer at this point. So who knows? Definitely not a completely unreasonable indie rep.

inb4 Smash Bros actually gets announced tomorrow for 2018 and this gets treated as gospel for the next few months.

 

[SlickWylde]

If Smash gets announced... you know what I'll do. I'm betting it won't be mentioned.

Also, that leak is so generic that it's hard to disprove, and I believe that's intentional. That way if something similar happens, people will think the leaker is legit, when they probably just thought of words that would relate to a lot of Nintendo projects.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Smash gets announced... you know what I'll do.

What brand of shoe will it be?