Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Something that a lot of people seem to forget is that the roster (minus DLC and alts-turned-clones) was decided back in 2012, a time in which Konami didn't become a zombie yet.

 

[UserKev]

It's an odd description of the Spear Attack. Do note that in some adaptions, it's a snake that comes out of his hand(including the first Mortal Kombat movie).

Considering the Hookshot didn't create blood anyway, the spear doesn't need to. They're effectively the same move, albeit one is clearly made of metal. While the other comes out of someone's hand.

Except that, Scorpion using it would look serious as hell if his proportions isn't seriously manipulated. The literal snake grab is more innocent and come to think of it, it could be a gimmick to it biting on to Bowser's horn and Yoshi's tail.

I don't look at it from that angle, as we have the likes of Toon Link grabbing people by stabbing them with a Hookshot as well as Corrin literally impaling opponents to the ground with Dragon Fang Lunge.

The angle I do look at it is that Sub-Zero has a lot more interesting mechanics to work with than Scorpion does.

I want Sub Zero to have his square hit combo and that slow punch from Shaolin Monks only the CPU version could use. Haha I actually got to play as the CPU version and those felt great to use.

 

[Bowserlick]

Scorpion and Sub-Zero both work. I think the Smash team will go with the undead ninja.

I believe Scorpion's fire immersed attack, his harpoon, and skinless head showcase the brutality of Mortal Kombat without adding in unbelievable blood splashes after every attack.

Because Scorpion and Sub-Zero are famous palette-swap characters from a game that loves palette-swapping to generate new characters, there is an argument that they should both get in as semi-clones.

 

[SmashChu]

I think if NMH3 had released in place of Bayonetta 2, it's entirely possible Travis could've been the ballot character. They both scratch the same niche and have a strong cult following. And timing plays a large role in these kind of things. Plus iirc Suda51 has pestered Sakurai about including Travis in the past.

Personally I would rather see Travis over Bayo in Smash.

DIsagree. Suda51 was a big name when NMH released about 10 years ago. Now, most people don't care about NMH or Suda51. The fact that the reveal of the new game was during a segment dedicated to Indies is telling. Suda51 and his games aren't what they use to be. I don't think Travis would ever gotten anywhere on the poll as I don't think most people care for the character.

Rayman is becoming the quintessential Smashboards character. A character everyone "backs" but is never going to get in. He's yesterday's Krystal (which somehow that thread is still popular which floors me).

Also, not sure why everyone is talking about Scorpio/Subzero. Neither are going to happen, let's not kid ourselves.

 

[Megadoomer]

DIsagree. Suda51 was a big name when NMH released about 10 years ago. Now, most people don't care about NMH or Suda51. The fact that the reveal of the new game was during a segment dedicated to Indies is telling. Suda51 and his games aren't what they use to be. I don't think Travis would ever gotten anywhere on the poll as I don't think most people care for the character.

Rayman is becoming the quintessential Smashboards character. A character everyone "backs" but is never going to get in. He's yesterday's Krystal (which somehow that thread is still popular which floors me).

Also, not sure why everyone is talking about Scorpio/Subzero. Neither are going to happen, let's not kid ourselves.

I feel like "never going to get in" is a pretty big exaggeration when it comes to Rayman. Aside from being noteworthy enough to get a trophy in Smash 4 (the only other case of a third party getting that without being playable is Commander Video from Bit.Trip Runner), Ubisoft and Nintendo just released a full-blown crossover game, so the connection seems to be there.

As for Travis, the game itself was announced in the Switch reveal presentation - this is just the first time that we've seen footage instead of concept art.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

DIsagree. Suda51 was a big name when NMH released about 10 years ago. Now, most people don't care about NMH or Suda51. The fact that the reveal of the new game was during a segment dedicated to Indies is telling. Suda51 and his games aren't what they use to be. I don't think Travis would ever gotten anywhere on the poll as I don't think most people care for the character.

Rayman is becoming the quintessential Smashboards character. A character everyone "backs" but is never going to get in. He's yesterday's Krystal (which somehow that thread is still popular which floors me).

Also, not sure why everyone is talking about Scorpio/Subzero. Neither are going to happen, let's not kid ourselves.

For the record: before Snake was revealed - "3rd Parties will never get in because it's a Nintendo fighting game", before Sonic - "Sonic won't get in because Snake was just a favor for Kojima", before Mega Man - "Mega Man won't get in cause Capcom hates Mega Man", before Ryu - "Sakurai said he didn't want any fighting game characters so any fighting game character isn't happening", before Cloud "Cloud will never get in because he's a Sony character, he's hardly even been in Nintendo. And Square Enix wouldn't let it happen", and before Bayonetta - "Bayonetta will never get in cause she uses guns and is too sexy". Pac-Man is the lucky one out of all 3rd parties. Most people expected him.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Rayman, Scorpion, and Sub-Zero never getting in; because it's very much a possibility. I'm just saying there's always 'reasons' why a character won't be in and, well, sometimes they get in.

I have no strong opinions on Travis it could go either way. If Suda51 is pestering Sakurai about it then it is definitely a possibility.

 

[Schnee117]

A character everyone "backs" but is never going to get in

I love it when people speak as if they can see into the future even though they can't.

Let's put it this way, Rayman has shown to be rather popular for Smash in general, not just here. Ubisoft have put out a very well received title that crosses over one of their franchises with one of Nintendo's and Rayman had multiple trophies in Smash 4.

I'd honestly peg him as the most likely third party newcomer despite preferring a Rabbid and Ezio.

He's yesterday's Krystal (which somehow that thread is still popular which floors me).

People still like the character. Some character's fanbases just don't die. It's as simple as that.

Also, not sure why everyone is talking about Scorpio/Subzero. Neither are going to happen, let's not kid ourselves.

Just because you think a character won't happen doesn't mean others can't talk about them.

 

[SmashChu]

I feel like "never going to get in" is a pretty big exaggeration when it comes to Rayman. Aside from being noteworthy enough to get a trophy in Smash 4 (the only other case of a third party getting that without being playable is Commander Video from Bit.Trip Runner), Ubisoft and Nintendo just released a full-blown crossover game, so the connection seems to be there.

As for Travis, the game itself was announced in the Switch reveal presentation - this is just the first time that we've seen footage instead of concept art.

And guess who wasn't in that crossover. Rayman.

Rayman is one of those characters people latch onto for one reason. He had a trophy in Smash 4 (because Nintendo published the game in Japan), and now all of a sudden he is totally going to be in Smash. Ignore the fact that he hasn't been in any game since 2013 and doesn't look like he'll be in one for a while. He's not any more popular than any other character. Rayman is a character who is over emphasized much like many other characters (like good old Krystal)

For the record: before Snake was revealed - "3rd Parties will never get in because it's a Nintendo fighting game", before Sonic - "Sonic won't get in because Snake was just a favor for Kojima", before Mega Man - "Mega Man won't get in cause Capcom hates Mega Man", before Ryu - "Sakurai said he didn't want any fighting game characters so any fighting game character isn't happening", before Cloud "Cloud will never get in because he's a Sony character, he's hardly even been in Nintendo. And Square Enix wouldn't let it happen", and before Bayonetta - "Bayonetta will never get in cause she uses guns and is too sexy". Pac-Man is the lucky one out of all 3rd parties. Most people expected him.

I have no strong opinions on Travis it could go either way. If Suda51 is pestering Sakurai about it then it is definitely a possibility.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Rayman, Scorpion, and Sub-Zero never getting in; because it's very much a possibility. I'm just saying there's always 'reasons' why a character won't be in and, well, sometimes they get in.[/quote]
Except you can do that with any character. Hindsight is 20/20, so of course any character that does get in is in the face of doubt (myself included). However, this ignores the fact there was doubt for every other character that doesn't get in.

One thing people do is they look at each character individually and assume there is no limit to who can get in. But look at the rosters of Brawl and Smash Wii U. Brawl only had two new guest characters. The main game of Smash 4 also only added 2. If we assume it will be the same as the prior two games, then you probably wont get more than 2 new ones. And you have a plethora of options. Its kind of the paradox with these characters. There are more characters to pick from but fewer of them will get in.

So when I look at Rayman or Scorpion or Travis, I consider that only 1 or 2 guest will get in. With some many potential characters, you start to cross off characters very quickly. This is why I don't put much stock into these characters.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

And guess who wasn't in that crossover. Rayman.

Rayman is one of those characters people latch onto for one reason. He had a trophy in Smash 4 (because Nintendo published the game in Japan), and now all of a sudden he is totally going to be in Smash. Ignore the fact that he hasn't been in any game since 2013 and doesn't look like he'll be in one for a while. He's not any more popular than any other character. Rayman is a character who is over emphasized much like many other characters (like good old Krystal)

Well, Rayman Legends is getting it's bazillionth rerelease next month. And for the Nintendo Switch of all things. He's still around. Sure he may not be in any forseeable new games but he's till relevant unlike Krystal.

And on Krystal, you're kind of comparing apples to oranges here. Krystal's relevancy dipped WAY before the release of Wii U and was even cut from Star Fox Zero, a game from her series. Rayman in the other hand has remained relevant since even before the release of Wii U. I'll admit that these past few years his relevancy has dipped as well but not to the point where he is literally eliminated from his own game. Like Krystal. And the trophy being in the game in no way hinders his chances of getting in so all it can really do is help make him more of a favorite than he was even prior to release of Smash Wii U.

Except you can do that with any character. Hindsight is 20/20, so of course any character that does get in is in the face of doubt (myself included). However, this ignores the fact there was doubt for every other character that doesn't get in.

Good point. I will say this, the fact that said characters got in against those explanations that there was no possible way they could is a testament to just how unpredictable Smash speculation can be. At this point anything is possible, it's just a matter of which character is more likely than the others. And even then we could be completely wrong.

One thing people do is they look at each character individually and assume there is no limit to who can get in. But look at the rosters of Brawl and Smash Wii U. Brawl only had two new guest characters. The main game of Smash 4 also only added 2. If we assume it will be the same as the prior two games, then you probably wont get more than 2 new ones. And you have a plethora of options. Its kind of the paradox with these characters. There are more characters to pick from but fewer of them will get in.

I've got a bit of a problem with this argument. You said that there were 2 new 3rd parties in Brawl's and Wii U's base game. You ignored the fact that Sonic came back in the base game and that we got 3 more via DLC and even the fact that Snake was cut. You just sorta picked out the information that benefited you and then threw out the rest.

So when I look at Rayman or Scorpion or Travis, I consider that only 1 or 2 guest will get in. With some many potential characters, you start to cross off characters very quickly. This is why I don't put much stock into these characters.

I could see your point about Scorpion and Travis quickly being scratched off the list. Totally get that. But if you were to put Rayman on said list he'd more than likely be one of the last ones standing because of his popularity. What other third party is as popular it a choice as Rayman? Snake probably. Other than that? I'm not really sure.

Then again there's always outside forces that could sway Sakurai's judgement like Kojima. Or Suda51. Point is, it's not all black and white when it comes to this stuff. It can be incredibly frustrating to speculate about how likely someone like Wolf is for DLC, a lot of people thought he was a shoo in, and then be absolutely and utterly wrong about it.

Edit: woah, **** this post turned out longer than I meant.

 

[FUNT1MER]

Well steve digs into battle!!!!!! God help us.

 

[N3ON]

DIsagree. Suda51 was a big name when NMH released about 10 years ago. Now, most people don't care about NMH or Suda51. The fact that the reveal of the new game was during a segment dedicated to Indies is telling. Suda51 and his games aren't what they use to be. I don't think Travis would ever gotten anywhere on the poll as I don't think most people care for the character.

This really just sounds like a narrative crafted to suit your argument, because that isn't the level of engagement and interest I've witnessed since the trailer. Or a narrative gauging interest based on before the trailer, in which case you've got a series with seven years of dormancy. Of course a dormant character generates less fervour, especially a third-party one. Look at Bomberman's arc. (and also had it been released in place of Bayo 2 as I posited, it would've been revealed in 2013 and released 2014). Moreover, people not caring about Suda51 anymore isn't true. Lollipop Chainsaw was more played than NMH, and Let It Die was more played than Lollipop Chainsaw. How many of Suda's pre-NMH games are even well known? One or two?

If you look on any comment section regarding NMH you will see a very noticeable contingent always raising Travis joining Smash, even when Smash has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Travis might not be the most well known third-party out there, but he's one that has always, always had a vocal fanbase when it comes to Smash. And the ballot really only gave wings to those cult favourites who previously garnered little hope. He was divisive, sure, but look who we ended up getting.

Had the timing been different, I do think he would've been a strong contender. And fwiw the ballot was created so Nintendo could hear the fans, not themselves. The method of reveal is generally unimportant, it's the buzz the character creates. NMH3 has made a bigger buzz than most of the games Nintendo revealed at E3. Hell, games like Stardew Valley and Owlboy have more buzz surrounding them than most of the indies Nintendo actually showed in the Direct.

Rayman is becoming the quintessential Smashboards character. A character everyone "backs" but is never going to get in. He's yesterday's Krystal (which somehow that thread is still popular which floors me).

I don't know if Rayman is going to be included in Smash, but these kind of unfounded definitive statements really make it so easy for you not only to eat crow, but for people to remember you eating that crow. I mean, case in point, your predictions regarding third parties have conflicted greatly with reality.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean or anything, but on the chance you are right, is it really worth being famously wrong so many times? To me it just seems there's no need to speak so concretely, it doesn't lend to your credibility or clairvoyance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Scorpion and Sub-Zero both work. I think the Smash team will go with the undead ninja.

I believe Scorpion's fire immersed attack, his harpoon, and skinless head showcase the brutality of Mortal Kombat without adding in unbelievable blood splashes after every attack.

Because Scorpion and Sub-Zero are famous palette-swap characters from a game that loves palette-swapping to generate new characters, there is an argument that they should both get in as semi-clones.

I do remember seeing a Scorpion and Sub-Zero moveset hack for Brawl. However, Sub-Zero seemed to be the better one of the two, especially in the Final Smash department, where both of Sub-Zero's Final Smashes are instant KOs.

 

[SmashChu]

This really just sounds like a narrative crafted to suit your argument, because that isn't the level of engagement and interest I've witnessed since the trailer. Or a narrative gauging interest based on before the trailer, in which case you've got a series with seven years of dormancy. Of course a dormant character generates less fervour, especially a third-party one. Look at Bomberman's arc. (and also had it been released in place of Bayo 2 as I posited, it would've been revealed in 2013 and released 2014). Moreover, people not caring about Suda51 anymore isn't true. Lollipop Chainsaw was more played than NMH, and Let It Die was more played than Lollipop Chainsaw. How many of Suda's pre-NMH games are even well known? One or two?

If you look on any comment section regarding NMH you will see a very noticeable contingent always raising Travis joining Smash, even when Smash has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Travis might not be the most well known third-party out there, but he's one that has always, always had a vocal fanbase when it comes to Smash. And the ballot really only gave wings to those cult favourites who previously garnered little hope. He was divisive, sure, but look who we ended up getting.

Had the timing been different, I do think he would've been a strong contender. And fwiw the ballot was created so Nintendo could hear the fans, not themselves. The method of reveal is generally unimportant, it's the buzz the character creates. NMH3 has made a bigger buzz than most of the games Nintendo revealed at E3. Hell, games like Stardew Valley and Owlboy have more buzz surrounding them than most of the indies Nintendo actually showed in the Direct.

First, on Suda51: when NMH released, Suda51 was a bigger name. He was seen as one of those influential, yet smaller, developers. But since then, he's falled off. Most gamers aren't going to know about Lollipop Chainsaw or Let it Die. It's very tell that his game was revealed in a showcase for Indie developers. You know, small developers. And if you want to compare him to other indie developers, there are far bigger names including Notch, Toby Fox and Scott Kaufman. Suda 51 has fallen off the radar for most people and his games. You can tell this by how little reception Let it Die got.

Suda and his company haven't had a critical or commercial success in years. Let it Die had mediocre sales and ratings. Killer is Dead was as low as 64 on Meticritic (not sure which console). So if you look at Suda objectively, you'll see he is not this primo developer everyone makes him out to be. In some ways, you could argue Platinum absorbed those consumers as Platinum has made games that were critically acclaimed in the last 10 years.

Looking at the views on the video on Nintendo's channel, it's about 600K. This isn't bad, but this isn't some massive game announcement. For comparison, the announcement of Lola Pop has over 700K. Undertale on PS4 has over 1 million. So when you look at the views, its not astounding. Are those the kind of numbers for a series that has a massive fanbase? Those views should increase, but I wouldn't say it was this monuments announcement. I also wouldn't say it was bigger than Nintendo E3 announcements as 1)One of them was Metroid Prime 4 and 2)All of the Nintendo trailers have more views.

Lastly, people will always say "X should be in Smash," because the precedent has been set, but just because someone says that character should be in Smash doesn't mean anything because people always do that. Heck, saw someone on Twitter say Rabbids should be in Smash because of the Mario/Rabbid game. You mention "creating buzz," and if that is a major criteria there are other series and characters who will do that more than Travis will.

I don't know if Rayman is going to be included in Smash, but these kind of unfounded definitive statements really make it so easy for you not only to eat crow, but for people to remember you eating that crow. I mean, case in point, your predictions regarding third parties have conflicted greatly with reality.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean or anything, but on the chance you are right, is it really worth being famously wrong so many times? To me it just seems there's no need to speak so concretely, it doesn't lend to your credibility or clairvoyance.

Yes, I'm sure were right about everything you've said. Clearly I'm the only one who has been wrong when it comes to Smash. I get your trying to be cordial (and thanks for that), but saying "you were wrong," isn't really an argument nor does it add anything to the discussion.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

In comparison to someone like Isaac or Takamaru, it's a bit disheartening to be able to say that characters like Rayman are more likely than them. All things considered, it's not too far to say that even Travis may have a better chance of making it in than them.

Takamaru, I think, might be dead in the water as much as I would love for that not to be the case and the only thing Isaac really has going for him is if the ballot results were taken into account but even then he'd have to face off against characters like Ridley or K. Rool. And even they don't have good chances of making it in. Saying priorities in choosing characters for Smash Bros. is a little jacked up wouldn't be reaching, in my opinion.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's very tell that his game was revealed in a showcase for Indie developers. You know, small developers. Killer is Dead was as low as 64 on Meticritic

Except IT WASN'T ANNOUNCED AT AN INDIE SHOWCASE IT WAS ANNOUNCED DURING THE SWITCH CONFERENCE IN JANUARY. It was SHOWN in the indie showcase, and not because Suda51 isn't well-known, but because of the Indie crossover stuff, which Suda51 put in as he felt more like an Indie than a AAA dev so he decided to support them!

Ah yes, review scores, which determine everything. Just like how the great God Hand is bad actually because IGN gave it a 3. Means jack ****. After all, we aren't getting Sonic because of Sonic 06 right? And if you're using views, try looking at the other videos, Nintendo's version of that trailer was censored to make the Nindies presentation PG-13, I wouldn't be surprised if NMH fans latched on to the trailer with their favourite foulmouthed weeb being foulmouthed

Also I just noticed "someone even suggested Rabbids!" Rabbids are pretty damn memorable and have mostly been successful throughout their life time to the point they have comics and a TV show which did fairly well.

Also, Suda51 had an interesting point about Travis in Smash. That he'd be a wrestler primarily who'd happen to have a beam katana. Interesting possibility

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Except IT WASN'T ANNOUNCED AT AN INDIE SHOWCASE IT WAS ANNOUNCED DURING THE SWITCH CONFERENCE IN JANUARY.

The game was announced that it exists in January.

The recent Nindies Showcase was the first time we ever saw anything about the game other than the fact that it exists.

I think this is what SmashChu meant by "revealed."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The game was announced that it exists in January.

The recent Nindies Showcase was the first time we ever saw anything about the game other than the fact that it exists.

I think this is what SmashChu meant by "revealed."

Then he should have used the English language correctly. I wasn't even the first to bring this up, I believe N3ON was

 

[SmashChu]

In comparison to someone like Isaac or Takamaru, it's a bit disheartening to be able to say that characters like Rayman are more likely than them. All things considered, it's not too far to say that even Travis may have a better chance of making it in than them.

Takamaru, I think, might be dead in the water as much as I would love for that not to be the case and the only thing Isaac really has going for him is if the ballot results were taken into account but even then he'd have to face off against characters like Ridley or K. Rool. And even they don't have good chances of making it in. Saying priorities in choosing characters for Smash Bros. is a little jacked up wouldn't be reaching, in my opinion.

I actually think Takamaru is a lock. Each Smash game has added one Classic game character and one hardware character. Classic was IC, Pit and Little Mac and hardware were G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt. Takamaru is the last of the Famicom Disk System characters not in Smash and Sakurai did consider him for Smash 4. Little Mac likely edged him out. If this trend continues for the next Smash, then Takamaru fits that bill.

Issac is old new now sadly. Would have been cool but what are you going to do. Sadly, we'll never have the 4th game (even if the 3rd was mediocre).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I actually think Takamaru is a lock. Each Smash game has added one Classic game character and one hardware character. Classic was IC, Pit and Little Mac and hardware were G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt.

I don't think Mac really counts as a "classic" character, as you put it, since he did get a game in 2009.

Heck, even the game itself points it out, since the Mac we see is the one from the Wii game.

 

[Oddball]

I actually think Takamaru is a lock. Each Smash game has added one Classic game character and one hardware character. Classic was IC, Pit and Little Mac and hardware were G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt. Takamaru is the last of the Famicom Disk System characters not in Smash and Sakurai did consider him for Smash 4. Little Mac likely edged him out. If this trend continues for the next Smash, then Takamaru fits that bill.

Plus Takamaru did make it in as a Mii costume. I think a lot of the mii costume characters have a better than average chance at being actual playable characters next time around.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I don't think Mac really counts as a "classic" character, as you put it, since he did get a game in 2009.

Heck, even the game itself points it out, since the Mac we see is the one from the Wii game.

he is heavily inspired by the arcade version though.

Wireframe mac AND using the ko punch gauge, instead of the far more iconic star punch.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

he is heavily inspired by the arcade version though.

Wireframe mac AND using the ko punch gauge, instead of the far more iconic star punch.

Isn't the KO gauge from Super Punch-Out?

Either way, that's a good point. He's had some relevance a few years before Smash 4, but his gimmick is clearly from one of the least known Punch-Out games. Not to mention those nods to the arcade with not just wireframe Mac, but the screen of his stage showing information in the same way the second screen of that game's cabinets would.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Isn't the KO gauge from Super Punch-Out?

Either way, that's a good point. He's had some relevance a few years before Smash 4, but his gimmick is clearly from one of the least known Punch-Out games. Not to mention those nods to the arcade with not just wireframe Mac, but the screen of his stage showing information in the same way the second screen of that game's cabinets would.

it's in both, but aomething else i juat remembered makes things even more blatant

 

[Autumn ♫]

I don't think Takamaru is anywhere near a lock, but I think he's fairly likely. I'd definitely prefer Sukapon though.

 

[SmashChu]

Plus Takamaru did make it in as a Mii costume. I think a lot of the mii costume characters have a better than average chance at being actual playable characters next time around.

It worked for Little Mac

 

[Deleted member]

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character?

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character.


When will people learn?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character?

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character.


When will people learn?

The second everyone (and I really mean everyone) realizes that patterns don't exist in the first place... so probably never.

 

[Deleted member]

The second everyone (and I really mean everyone) realizes that patterns don't exist in the first place... so probably never.

I'm not saying patterns don't exist entirely. We know for a fact that a pattern of there being a "surprise character" in at least more than one title exists because Sakurai said as much in the project proposal when talking about Duck Hunt, for example.

However, too many times people come up with patterns based on their personal observations that hold no legitimacy in the long run.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm not saying patterns don't exist entirely. We know for a fact that a pattern of there being a "surprise character" in at least more than one title exists because Sakurai said as much in the project proposal when talking about Duck Hunt, for example.

However, too many times people come up with patterns based on their personal observations that hold no legitimacy in the long run.

The problem is an all or nothing mentality. People will either assume there are tons of patterns or they are no patterns at all. There is no middle ground.

In regards to what was posted before, we do know that there is one classic game character and one classic hardware character. This has been specified by Sakurai. It should be somewhere on SourceGaming, just don't know where. For the costume/assist trophy thing, I think it matters only to the extend that popular and iconic characters will get content in the game. So Little Mac was an iconic old school character so he eventually made his way into Smash. Not saying you disagree with these, just thought I'd bring them up since its what we discussed above.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character?

People looking to non-existent patterns again for a character.


When will people learn?

I do think there is a retro pattern there. Mind you it doesn't mean that there couldn't be more than one retro or whatever but I'm fairly confident we'll see a new retro character in the next Smash. Not necessarily for patterns sake but because Sakurai has stated he likes to bring back old characters for a new generation.

Still, it's sort of a pattern. Ice Climbers, Pit, and Duck Hunt are the ones I consider the 'Retro' character but if you wanted to dive deeper you could throw in multiple others; Pac-Man, Little Mac, Mega Man, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Little Mac just takes inspiration from every Punch Out game.

He's got so many elements of each, I don't think one was pushed over the other.

That said, I don't think Little Mac was called the retro or surprise character was he?

Did we ever see Mac on the planning sheets?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't know if Rayman is going to be included in Smash, but these kind of unfounded definitive statements really make it so easy for you not only to eat crow, but for people to remember you eating that crow. I mean, case in point, your predictions regarding third parties have conflicted greatly with reality.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean or anything, but on the chance you are right, is it really worth being famously wrong so many times? To me it just seems there's no need to speak so concretely, it doesn't lend to your credibility or clairvoyance.

THE CHUCKLES!

Rayman got quite a chance I think. If Ubisoft wants him over a Rabbid, then that's going to happen. I think Nintendo and Ubisoft will probably discuss which character they would include beforehand. And I'd say Rayman just happens to fit better alongside the rest of the third party cast.

Is Rayman Origins for 3DS anything good btw? Might pick it up cause I've seen it for cute prices.

Personally, I think the Mario Rabbid would be a very fun addition. Quite unlikely to happen, but it's a possibility.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is Rayman Origins for 3DS anything good btw? Might pick it up cause I've seen it for cute prices.

It's been a highly praised game, but I think the 3DS version has a demo available on the eshop

 

[Curious Villager]

Is Rayman Origins for 3DS anything good btw? Might pick it up cause I've seen it for cute prices.

It looked very blurry and distant on the 3DS version if I recall correctly, if that doesn't bother you then sure, go ahead. There's an eShop demo that you can try first though, as Gwen said.

As for Rayman in Smash, I suppose if Ubisoft where to push for him in Smash, I guess he'd have a fair shot. I don't know if the Mario and Rabbids crossover means much for him though as the Rabbids haven't had anything to do with Rayman for years and have pretty much branched out into a series of their own. (Much like Wario did with from Mario with the Wario Land series outside of spin off's for example) However, seeing how open Ubisoft and Nintendo are with each other with their IP's should bode well though, for whichever Ubisoft character that they, Nintendo and Sakurai agree with an push for I guess....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It looked very blurry and distant on the 3DS version if I recall correctly, if that doesn't bother you then sure, go ahead. There's an eShop demo that you can try first though, as Gwen said.

As for Rayman in Smash, I suppose if Ubisoft where to push for him in Smash, I guess he'd have a fair shot. I don't know if the Mario and Rabbids crossover means much for him though as the Rabbids haven't had anything to do with Rayman for years and have pretty much branched out into a series of their own. (Much like Wario did with from Mario with the Wario Land series outside of spin off's for example) However, seeing how open Ubisoft and Nintendo are with each other with their IP's should bode well though, for whichever Ubisoft character that they, Nintendo and Sakurai agree with an push for I guess....

On the other hand, both could be in. Albeit, I do think Rabbids have a good chance for a Mii Costume if they're not playable directly. Rayman does feel like he has a pretty good chance now. Both are very relevant, which helps a bit. And they're both iconic, easily, now. Rabbids are probably more recognizable these days due to far more merchandising, but still.

 

[Delzethin]

Things seem to be looking up between Nintendo and Ubisoft. While it's really difficult to predict third party characters in most circumstances, I do think they're a company to look at.

Far as characters from Ubisoft go...yeah, Rayman's probably the most likely from them. He'd arguably work the best as a first guest fighter from the company, and he's looked upon pretty well in the current environment. I don't think they'd push for the likes of Ezio (or any other Assassin) or even a Rabbid before him, especially since the latter had a pretty strong hate base until about two weeks ago. I could see a Mii Gunner costume based on one of the Mario + Rabbids characters, but I think the limbless wonder has it beyond that.

Keep in mind, though, this could all change pending when the next Smash game actually happens. Next year seems highly plausible at this time, but it's far from a lock.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Keep in mind, though, this could all chance pending when the next Smash game actually happens. Next year seems highly plausible at this time, but it's far from a lock.

Or, more precisely, when the roster is decided, which is about 2 years before the actual game comes out.

Either way, all of you you do make a good point over the fact that Ubisoft seems to be a company worth looking for in terms of third-party. The Rayman trophies in 4 and the recent crossover between Nintendo's most important franchise and Rabbids are really good signs that we might get a Ubisoft character in the next Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Unless Ubisoft actively pursues it or a Ubisoft character happens to be among the top requests, one shouldn't be considered a lock by any stretch of the means.

 

[SmashChu]

Keep in mind, though, this could all chance pending when the next Smash game actually happens. Next year seems highly plausible at this time, but it's far from a lock.

The thing that concerns mean on if Smash is in the work was this year's E3. They announced Metroid Prime 4 and Pokemon long before they are ready (Pokemon is maybe 2018 on Nintendo's schedule of releases), but they didn't show Smash. Smash is often announced way in advanced. Brawl was announced a year before it was shown (or even developed) and Smash 4 was announced two year before. So if Smash was in development, why would they not announce it at E3 when 1)other games were announced well in advance and 2)the last two games were announced well in advance.

Another thing that could effect the game's development is Tekken 7. The Tekken team worked on Smash so its unlikely they were working much on Smash when that game was being developed. It may have help back Smash if Namco is the one making the game this time.

I honestly don't think the game will come out in 2018 if its being made now. My guess is 2019. It also works out as 2019 is the anniversary of the series so its a nice tie in. But I wouldn't say for sure that Smash is in development. Be nice, but I find it odd they haven't announced it yet.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The thing that concerns mean on if Smash is in the work was this year's E3. They announced Metroid Prime 4 and Pokemon long before they are ready (Pokemon is maybe 2018 on Nintendo's schedule of releases), but they didn't show Smash. Smash is often announced way in advanced. Brawl was announced a year before it was shown (or even developed) and Smash 4 was announced two year before. So if Smash was in development, why would they not announce it at E3 when 1)other games were announced well in advance and 2)the last two games were announced well in advance.

I thought the same. The only thing I can figure would warrant the game NOT bring announced is if it's an updated port. At least that's how I see it.

Another thing that could effect the game's development is Tekken 7. The Tekken team worked on Smash so its unlikely they were working much on Smash when that game was being developed. It may have help back Smash if Namco is the one making the game this time.

Was it ever confirmed to be the Tekken team? I knew it had people on the team who had worked on Tekken and Soul Calibur in the past but I don't think it was ever said it was Harada's Tekken team. If it was then I would agree with you but I do seen to recall Harada saying something about how Tekken 7 had been in the works for 5ish years or something.

I honestly don't think the game will come out in 2018 if its being made now. My guess is 2019. It also works out as 2019 is the anniversary of the series so its a nice tie in. But I wouldn't say for sure that Smash is in development. Be nice, but I find it odd they haven't announced it yet.

I don't think it'll come out next year either. Unless they pull a bold move and announced AND show the game before the end of the year at TGS or something. My vote is that it'll be revealed at E3 next year and then released in 2019.

And in the oddity of it not being announced. My guess would be that the game is, indeed, an upgraded port and seeing as how Pokken and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe are both coming out this year maybe they think it would send a bad message. Otherwise, yeah it's weird.