Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shadowwolflink]

I feel as though if we get Simon Belmont, we'll get Rayman.
And if we get Rayman, we'll get Banjo.
And if we get Banjo, we'll get Crash.
And if we get Crash, we'll get Spyro.
And...

And pretty soon the entire roster is going to be filled with a bunch of third party characters I don't care about.

So, while Simon Belmont may have earned a place, I hope he never makes it in.

That's a really antagonistic point of view, and also incredibly flawed logic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

While Skull Kid used to be the dream for a new Zelda newcomer, I feel now that Tingle is the best choice.

Outsiiiiiiiiide, of Impa. Yes. It took me from Pre-Brawl til now, for Diddy Kong and Nintendo with this Echo thing to make me realize that I actually would enjoy Impa in Smash.

Still, she holds tie with Tingle, because of his recurrence in the series, and would bode for a unique newcomer (no chance of being a clone, that is)

Tingle in a game about fan service whilst having cameo roles on the Great Bay stage and previous two games being an AT? Yeah I don't see it. There haven't been new appearances of Tingle either outside Hyrule Warriors, where he didn't even get into the base roster.

Impa is overall more likely, and not just because she could be a Echo Fighter. She has the potential to be one yes, but she doesn't exactly NEED to be.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If there's a fan service rep for Zelda. It's not even Impa or Tingle.

It's Skull Kid. That's someone who is majorly fan service-y. He's even the Zelda character that has extensive mods in Smash fan games.

 

[MysticKnives]

Pfft, there isn't anyone like that who exist. Character loyalty over gameplay?!!! Who on Earth woud be so obsessed with a fictional character to waver practicality like that?!! I mean who does that?!!!

We gotta do what we gotta do. Been rocking with Ness since '99, a character who at his best only reached mid tier lol. He's extremely fun to play though. Based on everything I've been learning and hearing about in regards to Ness in this game though makes him sound even more fun to play to me, and he sounds a bit better.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, I'm perfectly content with the Zelda roster.
Then again, I'm not exactly a Zelda superfan and I don't care about reps in general.

 

[Shroob]

A thought just occurred to me as to why Octoling as an echo seems super unlikely.

Mainly the fact that we have 8 different colored Inklings with their own uniquely colored Ink. If you throw in a potential 8 more Octolings with Ink that may be too similarly shaded to an Inkling's Ink, that may get really confusing in 8-player smash.

It's an issue of readability. Sakurai did a good job picking out 8 distinct colors for the 8 Inklings, meaning that you'll always know whos Ink is whose on a stage, but doing so again for the Octolings with 0 color overlapping seems very difficult.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If there's a fan service rep for Zelda. It's not even Impa or Tingle.

It's Skull Kid. That's someone who is majorly fan service-y. He's even the Zelda character that has extensive mods in Smash fan games.

I'd be ib for Skull Kid but a newcomer won't take away from a new Echo Fighter either. So both Impa and Skull Kid could potentially make it in, which is a rather exciting thought.

 

[Deleted member]

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the mean time, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

Super late, but my "ultimate" version would just be this

For convinience, here's a list of newcomers:

Nintendo:

1. Decidueye
2. Bandana Dee
3. Isaac
4. King K. Rool
5. Waluigi
6. Takamaru
7. Andross

Third-Party:

1. Shovel Knight
2. Crash
3. Rayman
4. Spyro

I can't really think of three more Nintendo characters and one more third party that I really want. the former would just be more Kirby characters

 

[CaptainAmerica]

On the topic of ink...does Kirby's hat produce ink? In the same color as the inkling, or a different since you're technically against them now? Or is there a special ink for Kirby? Or does it just evaporate immediately and his hat works as a blaster?

On the topic of Skull Kid, I think he and Midna are the biggest requests around the Zelda franchise, and with Midna out, he's looking good. Still, Impa's an easy Sheik echo, and with Young Link and Regular Link requiring rebuilds, I don't know if we'll get a new full Zelda newbie.

 

[Zinith]

On the topic of ink...does Kirby's hat produce ink? In the same color as the inkling, or a different since you're technically against them now? Or is there a special ink for Kirby? Or does it just evaporate immediately and his hat works as a blaster?

On the topic of Skull Kid, I think he and Midna are the biggest requests around the Zelda franchise, and with Midna out, he's looking good. Still, Impa's an easy Sheik echo, and with Young Link and Regular Link requiring rebuilds, I don't know if we'll get a new full Zelda newbie.

It's been shown in the Treehouse that if Kirby runs out of ink, he'll lose the copy ability altogether

Also, Kirby uses standard orange ink regardless of the Inkling color he copied

 

[papagenos]

If there's a fan service rep for Zelda. It's not even Impa or Tingle.

It's Skull Kid. That's someone who is majorly fan service-y. He's even the Zelda character that has extensive mods in Smash fan games.

i'd love skull kid in smash, he'd definitely be the one id want if we got a zelda newcomer.

that said as things stand now i think only impa as an echo of sheik has a realistic shot and even then i feel like with all the revamps and young link back we wont be seeing anymore zelda newcomers...at least not until DLC, so we'll have to wait and see though i expect tingle/skull kid to return as assists unless sakurai decides to hold off skull kid for a DLC characters but i feel its a long shot.

 

[dezeray112]

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the mean time, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

1st/2nd Party Characters:

1. Rex & Pyra
2. Elma
3. Excitebiker
4, Ayumi Tachibana
5, Decidueye
6. Mimikyu
7. Springman
8. Twintelle
9. Chibi-Robo
10. Legend of Zelda Rep.

3rd Party Characters:

1. Tekken Character (Heihachi Mishima or Jin Kazama.)
2. Simon Belmont
3. Jack Frost (Shin Megami Tensei)
4. SNK Rep (Terry Bogard, Kyo Kusanagi or Athena Asamiya.)
5. Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

If there's a fan service rep for Zelda. It's not even Impa or Tingle.

It's Skull Kid. That's someone who is majorly fan service-y. He's even the Zelda character that has extensive mods in Smash fan games.

People STILL sleeping on my boi Zant smh.

I'd still be cool with Skull Kid.

3rd Party Characters:

1. Tekken Character (Heihachi Mishima or Jin Kazama.)
2. Simon Belmont
3. Jack Frost (Shin Megami Tensei)
4. SNK Rep (Terry Bogard, Kyo Kusanagi or Athena Asamiya.)
5. Ryu Hayabusa.

You have good taste.

 

[L9999]

i'd love skull kid in smash, he'd definitely be the one id want if we got a zelda newcomer.

that said as things stand now i think only impa as an echo of sheik has a realistic shot and even then i feel like with all the revamps and young link back we wont be seeing anymore zelda newcomers...at least not until DLC, so we'll have to wait and see though i expect tingle/skull kid to return as assists unless sakurai decides to hold off skull kid for a DLC characters but i feel its a long shot.

Is that a bad thing? Link, Zelda, and Ganon are the face of the Zelda series. You really don't need anyone else.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Is that a bad thing? Link, Zelda, and Ganon are the face of the Zelda series. You really don't need anyone else.

I mean you could argue this about so many series in Smash. But it's not about needing anyone else. It's about adding in a character who would be potentially fun and have a great new playstyle.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

 

[Zinith]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

Gee I wonder which side benefited from that merge...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

I don't particularly want any of the Bandai Namco second reps, but Lloyd has been a request from fans for a while. So I'd go with him.

 

[lordvaati]

Is that a bad thing? Link, Zelda, and Ganon are the face of the Zelda series. You really don't need anyone else.

The Mario Franchise is mostly just the Bros., Bowser, Peach and Yoshi, but despite this many cheered when Rosalina, The Koopa Kids and Daisy were added, and (for some possibly sarcastic reason) Waluigi has been immensely requested.
The Zelda world eisnt just guided by the 3 bound to the Triforce, but also the secondary characters from the various times that fans grew attached to. And we even have some that have made many returns, such as Tingle. Impa or Vaati. Smash is there to showcase the world of many series, and I'd say one of Ninty,'s Big 3 Series having fresh faces would be a fair deal.

 

[papagenos]

Is that a bad thing? Link, Zelda, and Ganon are the face of the Zelda series. You really don't need anyone else.

thats sort of what I was saying, I dont think we need him and if this is smash "ultimate" id rather have series like DK get those last few newcomer spots since sakurai said not to expect too many more characters. I want this game to feel "complete" and its very close to that, skull kids a great zelda rep id personally love to have him in the game but i dont expect him or do i think the game needs him, but thats not to say he isnt a great character and one id probably play over some other choices who i actually think are more deserving of a place on the roster.

its a weird thing with smash speculation theres characters you want in a perfect world and then theres characters you know are the better option for the game and all the fans overall. this time around im really banking on sakurai doing it for the majority of fans, picking the biggest fan favorites and giving us that "complete" feeling game. smash 4 was close and now we are so much closer to the game not feeling like anything that really should be here is missing, in my opinion anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

Agumon first. Though Lloyd Irving is a nice second, with Nightmare in 3rd.

 

[dezeray112]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

There is also SoulCalibur on Namco's side.

Other than that, I would prefer to have someone from either the Tekken series or one of the Tales of franchises.

 

[Bestmand902]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

Honestly, unlikely as she is, Valkyrie if only for the WTF factor, or Gilgamesh because he got a Mii costume

 

[papagenos]

Question, who do you think would be a good Bandai Namco rep to go with Pac-Man?

On Namco's side there's Heihatchi, Nightmare, Lloyd (Tales of), Dig Dug, Taiko (drum thing) and KOS-MOS
On Bandai's side there's Digimon and Tamagotchi.

Which do you want? Did I miss any?

my guess would be itd be heihachi or lloyd.

if i got to choose id go with yoshimitsu, to rep both soul calibur AND tekken.

im not thinking we'll get a second namco rep though, the whole "every third party company gets two reps" thing feels like one of those "pattern" things that the smash community banks on but sakurai doesnt go through with.

 

[DYED]

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the meantime, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

It took me a while, but I did it.

15 new characters.
8 newcomers, 2 echo characters, and 5 third-party guests.

I designed this "ultimate roster" primarily around the idea of giving the Smash veterans their well-deserved rivals.

Spoiler: Echo Fighters

Let's start with the Echo Fighters, all marked in red.
I also think they deserve some kind of explanation.

Blood Falcon (F-Zero): a Captain Falcon clone, in between CF and Ganondorf playstyles. Way heavier tahn his counterpart but not as slow and powerful as Ganondorf, with a to-go playstyle more designed around his specials than his tilt moves. His Final Smash is very similar to Falcon's, but instead of running over the enemies like Falcon does, being Blood a bloodthirsty and evil clone he violently crashes his vehicle against the enemies, making an explosion.

Isabelle (Animal Crossing): a Villager clone. Isabelle is usually really responsible, but being in Smash makes her very nervous and clumsy. Slightly less mobile and with a slighter higher damage input, she panics everytime she kills someone or hit a foe with her stronger moves. Instead of building an house in her Final Smash, she builds a public structure, like a fountain.

Spoiler: Newcomers

Again, the idea is to giving every veteran their villain, plus a couple characters that I think deserves to be in the roster, for their importance in their respective franchises.

Waluigi (Mario, but is a Wario character. Highly requested character.)
Ashley (WarioWare. Highly requested character.)
King K. Rool (DK's villain)
Midna (Zelda. Highly requested character.)
Lyn (Fire Emblem. Highly requested character. A clone of Marth, but more in the way Wolf is a clone of Fox.)
Marx (Kirby. The first really evil villain, as Dedede and Meta Knight are more a kind of friendly rivals.)
Porky (Mother/Earthbound's villain.)
Chorus Kids (Highly requested character. Scrapped at some point during the Smash 4 development cycle.)

Spoiler: Third Party Guests

Marked in yellow.
Shovel Knight.
Rayman.
Crash.
Shantae.
Simon Belmont.

 

[Cosmic77]

Tingle in a game about fan service whilst having cameo roles on the Great Bay stage and previous two games being an AT? Yeah I don't see it. There haven't been new appearances of Tingle either outside Hyrule Warriors, where he didn't even get into the base roster.

Impa is overall more likely, and not just because she could be a Echo Fighter. She has the potential to be one yes, but she doesn't exactly NEED to be.

Sadly, I'll have to agree with you. I think Tingle is a perfect example of why we shouldn't let ourselves get too carried away when an Assist Trophy isn't shown off. Even if we never saw his AT, we know that Great Bay is returning, and since Tingle has more than just a cameo in that stage, the odds of him being playable are slim. Not impossible, but very slim.


Speaking of Zelda, here's where we stand after E3.

Pig Ganon - Disconfirmed
Impa - Unknown
Tingle - Possibly Disconfirmed (Great Bay returning)
Skull Kid - Unknown
Toon Zelda/Tetra - Unknown
Midna - Disconfirmed
Ghirahim - Disconfirmed
Champions (Daruk, Revali, Mipha, Urbosa) - Unknown x4

Assuming Sakurai doesn't go for someone weird like Lana, Agatha, or Fi, the only notable contenders left are Impa, Skull Kid, Toon Zelda/Tetra and the four Champions.

 

[Zeox]

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the mean time, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

This is the Roster I made:

The new Nintendo Characters are:
Geno, Dixie, K. Rool
Bandana Dee, Black Shadow
Mimikyu
Medusa, Porky, Elma, Chorus Kids.
and Third parties:
Rayman, Simon Belmont, Crash, Spyro and Shovel Knight as the indie rep.
Some characters are there because I want them and some others because they are popular between the smash community.

 

[.Shìkì]

When I look at Leo vs Plup, I saw that Bayonetta actually has 4 jumps in total. 1 Normal Jump and 3 Double Jumps. You can see the circle, meaning that she double jumps.

ZeRo clip this, here is his analysis...

This is actually pretty busted..

Well, now we know one of the bugs Sakurai says he spotted. This is ridiculous.

Found this "leak" tonight on discord. The website is from eventhubs and it looks like it is from the comment section of a smash article.

Tear it to shreds guys and gals.

Sadly the chance this is fake is 99.9%, but I'd be totally ok with that line-up.

 

[DYED]

Found this "leak" tonight on discord. The website is from eventhubs and it looks like it is from the comment section of a smash article.

Tear it to shreds guys and gals.

Sounds just too perfect to be real.
It's every highly requested character ever (that hasn't been disconfirmed during the E3).
Also I don't think Dark Samus and the Octolings are suitable to be Echo Fighters.

Dark Samus especially, since Samus already has a revealed alt palette where she looks extremely close to Dark Samus.

​

I mean, okay, the lines on the costume are yellow instead of blue, but she resemble Dark Samus too much to be readable in a possible one vs. one.
I'm quite sure there's no way for Dark Samus to be an Echo.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Sounds just too perfect to be real.
It's every highly requested character ever (that hasn't been disconfirmed during the E3).
Also I don't think Dark Samus and the Octolings are suitable to be Echo Fighters.

Dark Samus especially, since Samus already has a revealed alt palette where she looks extremely close to Dark Samus.

​

I mean, okay, the lines on the costume are yellow instead of blue, but she resemble Dark Samus too much to be readable in a possible one vs. one.
I'm quite sure there's no way for Dark Samus to be an Echo.

I don't know, that last color looks pertty darned different to me, like t was filler for when they removed the Dark Samus color.

 

[Zeox]

Sounds just too perfect to be real.
It's every highly requested character ever (that hasn't been disconfirmed during the E3).
Also I don't think Dark Samus and the Octolings are suitable to be Echo Fighters.

Dark Samus especially, since Samus already has a revealed alt palette where she looks extremely close to Dark Samus.

​

I mean, okay, the lines on the costume are yellow instead of blue, but she resemble Dark Samus too much to be readable in a possible one vs. one.
I'm quite sure there's no way for Dark Samus to be an Echo.

+ imagine 8 octolings all with different colors, in a 8 player fight of 4 inklings vs 4 octolings all of similar colors, that would be a mess and almost impossible to know who is who.

 

[papagenos]

Well, now we know one of the bugs Sakurai says he spotted. This is ridiculous.



Sadly the chance this is fake is 99.9%, but I'd be totally ok with that line-up.

yeah i mean super fake random leak but i agree im cool with that line up.

my personal guess for remaining newcomers is: Simon / K Rool / Dixie Kong (semi clone) / Waddle Dee / Elma / Geno / Chrom (echo)

but ive toyed around with the high possibility of swapping some of those for other likely choices like Captain Toad, Ashley, Impa, Rayman etc...

basically i think we are going to get something close to this with a couple spots interchangeable between the few remaining likely characters but im cool with pretty much any combination here so long as we get a "complete" feeling final roster.

 

[DYED]

I don't know, that last color looks pertty darned different to me, like t was filler for when they removed the Dark Samus color.

I'm not too sure, may it be the light?
When I was typing I was imagining Dark Samus more like this:

Spoiler: EDIT: I reuploaded the picture

Like I remembered her from Metroid Prime 2.
I'm not that big of a Metroid fan, I don't know if they're two different versions or if it's the light.

 

[vaanrose]

Sounds just too perfect to be real.
It's every highly requested character ever (that hasn't been disconfirmed during the E3).
Also I don't think Dark Samus and the Octolings are suitable to be Echo Fighters.

Dark Samus especially, since Samus already has a revealed alt palette where she looks extremely close to Dark Samus.

​

I mean, okay, the lines on the costume are yellow instead of blue, but she resemble Dark Samus too much to be readable in a possible one vs. one.
I'm quite sure there's no way for Dark Samus to be an Echo.

Hot damn, that Wiz Khalifa Samus is pure sex.

 

[Zeox]

I'm not too sure, may it be the light?
When I was typing I was imagining Dark Samus more like this:

Spoiler: EDIT: I reuploaded the picture

Like I remembered her from Metroid Prime 2.
I'm not that big of a Metroid fan, I don't know if they're two different versions or if it's the light.

In Metroid prime 3, there was a second version of Dark Samus, but never played so I dunno if is the light or is actually more blue.

 

[One winged Devil]

OK but consider this.

Dark Samus is playable and isn't an Echo Fighter.

 

[Skyblade12]

That’s Dark Samus’s Trophy.

 

[Zinith]

OK but consider this.

Dark Samus is playable and isn't an Echo Fighter.

Considered.....

And?

 

[blackghost]

Well, now we know one of the bugs Sakurai says he spotted. This is ridiculous.



Sadly the chance this is fake is 99.9%, but I'd be totally ok with that line-up.

when people were claiming the combo itself is a bug they are in denial. this seems way more likely to be what he was referring to. and the not walk through shield interaction.

 

[DYED]

View attachment 148723
That’s Dark Samus’s Trophy.

... I still can't figure out what color that is.
Is that black? Blue? .... Both?

OK but consider this.

Dark Samus is playable and isn't an Echo Fighter.

Samus' already getting her everlasting villain Ridley.
I don't think there are many high chances for her to get another one in the roster.