Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

I've had that idea but they'd have much too different anatomy. Ike is broad, but Hector is broad. No matter how big an infantry like Ike may be armors would need to have their own model. Though I do think that if Hector is implemented, he should be like Darius from League of Legends. A sweet spot on the head of his axe but a serious sour spot on the shaft. Marth tipper but on steroids.

EXACTLY. Space or die.

 

[Octorockandroll]

So I just wanted to ask, why is everyone assuming a Xenoblade X rep will be Elma? If they can have Robin, they can have Cross, right? It just seems like something weird to treat as a foregone conclusion.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Guys I have a problem.

I went all of Smash 4 speculation thinking Ridley was gonna get in, knowing full well deep down it wasn't happening.

Now I finally got Ridley. I was satisfied, but then I hear the Shadow assist trophy isn't there, and I hear about echo fighters. You can't do this to me. Now I'm looking at any leaks and hoping to see Shadow on them. I'm right back on the train that leads to madness. And I can't hop off. I had one day to breathe with Ridley and now I'm onto Shadow.

 

[Lyndis_]

Absolutely no way they would be putting someone from Xeno X and not Xeno 2 when Xeno 2 did so much better and has more recognizable characters.

So... you're saying Sakurai saw into the future and knew that Xenoblade 2 would not only do better but have more recognizable characters? 'Cause I can certainly say that there's no way he would have decided on the character late enough in development for Xenoblade 2 to have released, after the roster had already been decided a year prior.

Even so, I wouldn't say Rex / Pyra are really any more recognizable outside of the Smash speculation & Xenoblade fanbase. I can't speak for Japan but it's still a pretty niche series here and the only one I'd consider any recognizable is Shulk just because of his existence in Smash & the memes that surrounded him early on.

 

[Zinith]

So I just wanted to ask, why is everyone assuming a Xenoblade X rep will be Elma? If they can have Robin, they can have Cross, right? It just seems like something weird to treat as a foregone conclusion.

I think it's because despite Robin being an "avatar," he/she still had a central theme that Sakurai thought would look good in Smash. Cross is literally a blank slate.

 

[Roberk]

Zinith

Just curious, why do you love Yoshi so much? I have absolutely no experience with the franchise and I don't see much piquing my interest for me to play it. Is it the various artstyles? Yoshi's design? Gameplay? Is there a deeply complex story and character development that I don't know about, or is it just so simple it's lovable? Why Yoshi over everything else? The dedication you show is truly inspiring, I gotta know the story behind it.

 

[Slavic]

So I just wanted to ask, why is everyone assuming a Xenoblade X rep will be Elma? If they can have Robin, they can have Cross, right? It just seems like something weird to treat as a foregone conclusion.

Cross is literally a nothing compared to the rest of the cast, no lines in cutscene, no set voice, no set class or arts, no set look. Unlike Robin, who has a pretty snazzy default look, a unique default class, and more importantly general popularity. Cross is considered one of the downfalls of XCX by a lot of fans, whereas Robin is the opposite.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Yay I can have my Ultimate main on my forum posts now hehehe!

 

[Lyndis_]

So I just wanted to ask, why is everyone assuming a Xenoblade X rep will be Elma? If they can have Robin, they can have Cross, right? It just seems like something weird to treat as a foregone conclusion.

I haven't finished Xenoblade X fully but I believe it's because unlike Robin, Cross doesn't really seem to have any personality or characteristics.. and Elma is basically the actual main character of the game, not the player from what I've heard.

Also iirc Chrom was far more speculated as getting into Sm4sh than Robin was. I think it's just a general theme of people preferring more defined characters over semi to fully blank slates.

 

[Deathcarter]

I'll be frank on my opinion on Elma: I just don't really see any reason why Sakurai or Monolift Soft would want to put her in over just doing a Greninja for Rex. Her game had a middling reception compared to the original particularly in Japan where it performed worse than the original, Xenoblade X would be old news by the time Smash 4 came out, and she's so different from Shulk that she can't even ride his coattails like Lucas and Ike did with Ness and Marth respectively. She really comes off like a second Takamaru, a character who's popular in Smash speculation but outside of that context is decently liked by her fanbase but is otherwise really unnoteworthy.

 

[Zinith]

Zinith

Just curious, why do you love Yoshi so much? I have absolutely no experience with the franchise and I don't see much piquing my interest for me to play it. Is it the various artstyles? Yoshi's design? Gameplay? Is there a deeply complex story and character development that I don't know about, or is it just so simple it's lovable? Why Yoshi over everything else? The dedication you show is truly inspiring, I gotta know the story behind it.

I'm extremely careful about getting strikes on this thread, so I'll keep it as brief as I can.

There was no point where I was like, "Oh, Yoshi will be my favorite character from here on out!!!" It sort of crept up on me. I really can't give a more concise answer than that

 

[MysticKnives]

Guys I have a problem.

I went all of Smash 4 speculation thinking Ridley was gonna get in, knowing full well deep down it wasn't happening.

Now I finally got Ridley. I was satisfied, but then I hear the Shadow assist trophy isn't there, and I hear about echo fighters. You can't do this to me. Now I'm looking at any leaks and hoping to see Shadow on them. I'm right back on the train that leads to madness. And I can't hop off. I had one day to breathe with Ridley and now I'm onto Shadow.

I'd just keep a look out for stuff like that. Cause he definitely has a chance at the moment of being a playable character, but at the same time, him not being shown as an AT yet could mean nothing as we've only seen like half of them.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Wahey! Yet another Dedede to tack on!

Smooth Criminal

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Elma's game has been talked about as a Switch port and as getting a sequel.

Not really as un-noteworthy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I

The internet would never be the same when Sonic becomes a Nintendo character.

But it will become better

 

[Zinith]

Also, many consider Elma as the lead protagonist of the main campaign of XCX in the same way Chrom is seen that way in Awakening

 

[Roberk]

So I just wanted to ask, why is everyone assuming a Xenoblade X rep will be Elma? If they can have Robin, they can have Cross, right? It just seems like something weird to treat as a foregone conclusion.

People like to assume the best scenarios. I see this turning into a Chrom situation like you said with Robin, the Main Character for a relevant-near-development game is considered a lock when the avatar swoops in to steal their spot. These cases aren't the exact same as Cross seems to have 0 story importance and Elma wouldn't be considered too similar to existing characters on the roster like Chrom. So there is at least some more reasoning to believe that Elma would be the XCX rep than Chrom being the Awakening rep.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Orange Inkling girl being the primary is the best. Good job, Nintendo. Glad to have her on my profile.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

 

[CodeBlue_]

Slightly before the Direct

And then Yoshi is shown last in the trailer

Sakurai disrespecting you

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Aw man this thread moves fast. Sorry to resurrect questions from 5 pages ago, but I wanted to have a shot at them.

I have a question for everyone. I applaud the team adding some fun and interesting costumes and not only that, but also bringing back Young and Adult Ike.

What 10 alternate outfits do you want to see?

1. Twilight Princess Zelda
2. Twilight Princess Link
3. Twilight Princess Dorf
4. Hyrule Warriors Dorf
5. Breath of the Wild Royal Gown Zelda
6. Squirtle Squad Shades
7. Modern Shiny (black) Charizard
8. those go well with Team Rocket Trainer
9. Actual Shiny Mewtwo
10. Actual Shiny Lucario

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the mean time, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

I don't need too many more characters. The only ones I really want would be (1st) K. Rool and (3rd) Dovahkiin

K. Rool just feels like an empty spot in the roster since nearly every one of the original eight has their respective recurring villain. Plus the boards have kinda make K.Rool and Ridley into partners by this point.

And Dovahkiin because Skyrim was awesome, and definitely influenced Nintendo (see what BotW borrowed, and that there are BotW-themed unlockables in the Switch port). I love Bethesda RPGs, and I feel like the swords/shouts moveset could actually be really fun. Plus Kirby in the iconic helmet shouting "Fus Ro Dah" in his squeaky voice would be the best thing ever. I just wish I'd thought of this earlier. Before the Switch port I hadn't even considered it, so I never got a chance to throw him a vote on the ballot.

Other First/Second parties I would like to see:

1. Urbosa (Zelda) - heroic Gerudo FTW. By far the most awesome of the champions; did you see that DLC cutscene of hers?!
2. Midna (Zelda) RIP - The one exposition fairy with a personality, and it worked well. Too bad she's confirmed for assist.
3. Azura (Fire Emblem) - I'd love a spear user, and Azura looks great. PArt of me is also biased since she has the same name as an Elder Scrolls goddess
4. Gardevoir (Pokemon) - I didn't really like 3rd gen, but Gardevoir was one of the ones I liked there. I usually tried to get one I named "Zelda"

And I really don't have many other thrid parties I want. Child me did want Ivy from Soul Calibur since a whip-sword moveset could be great and the only whip user we have now is ZSS, so I guess her.

But I think Tails would make a great Sonic echo. Sonic 2 was my first ever video game, and I played Tails pretty well exclusively. I could easily see him taking all of Sonic's moves and I'd love it. Otherwise, I really wouldn't add too many echoes.

 

[Zinith]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

Well Mario already got a newcomer, but going forward I don't see them getting anymore

 

[osby]

Can't decide on a main, so I'll just circulate through my faves.

 

[PLATINUM7]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

I assume you mean unique characters, seeing as we already have Daisy.

I don't think it will for Pokemon. FE maybe, since Sakurai wavered on weather to add Corrin. Not sure Mario has many options. Waluigi is an AT, Geno would be cool though.

Similar to Mario, not sure Zelda has many options. Skull Kid? BotW champion?

 

[Idon]

If they remake XCX, I hope they tone down that online material farming

Pain in the posterior that was...

 

[Arcanir]

I'll be frank on my opinion on Elma: I just don't really see any reason why Sakurai or Monolift Soft would want to put her in over just doing a Greninja for Rex. Her game had a middling reception compared to the original particularly in Japan where it performed worse than the original, Xenoblade X would be old news by the time Smash 4 came out, and she's so different from Shulk that she can't even ride his coattails like Lucas and Ike did with Ness and Marth respectively. She really comes off like a second Takamaru, a character who's popular in Smash speculation but outside of that context is decently liked by her fanbase but is otherwise really unnoteworthy.

Monolith Soft would probably be fine with it. Takahashi has stated he wants to port the game onto the Switch and Director Koh Kojiima mentioned he's want to make a sequel alongside XC3. It's definitely not a game that they seem to want to sweep under the rug, it's clear they want a future for it and if given the chance would likely continue its story alongside the main one.

Sakurai I don't think has commented on it, but if he felt a character from it was interesting, he'd probably still add it regardless of its reception.

Edit: Greninja'd by Roger, I need to call Stan again...

 

[Roberk]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

While FE and Mario are debatable (Mario has already gotten Daisy and Corrin was basically should have been an Ultimate newcomer), it's laughable to think that the biggest multimedia franchise in the world would not get a rep. So many Pokemon to choose from, so many regions to represent, so many fans to please, so much money to be made.

 

[osby]

Well Mario already got a newcomer, but going forward I don't see them getting anymore

It can get more. Like, Daisy was an echo, there's room for another, maybe Geno?
But I don't think it will happen, it's just there's no upper limit now.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

Nah. Over-representation hasn't stopped Sakurai in the past. If he wants a character to be in, they will be in.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

No. I think we're getting a Mario and Pokemon rep for sure.

 

[Troykv]

So. Do you think the large amount of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Fire Emblem veterans will prevent newcomers from those franchises?

Well... it's hard to say for me, because there are arguments for each of these franchise to get a new character.

Everything will depend of if that characters offers something great and fun to the roster, and if the character has some following.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I really hope for an Adventure mode like Melee. I had a lot of fun in that. Subspace was a bit too large for my tastes. Also give me classic...classic mode.

 

[osby]

I think it's because despite Robin being an "avatar," he/she still had a central theme that Sakurai thought would look good in Smash. Cross is literally a blank slate.

Silent protags can be good as characters, if well made. ->

 

[Slavic]

Silent protags can be good as characters, if well made. ->

Does... does WFT not actually talk? Has her voice all been in my head all along??

Part of the problem with Cross is in battle they have a ton of great battle quotes across all the different voices, but in cutscenes just the music cuts out and the scene pauses so that Cross can choose to either Nod or Cross Arms or some other pointless silent choice. Cross's default kit is basically just half of Elma's and everything he does as a character is done by the Mii Fighters better.

 

[osby]

Does... does WFT not actually talk? Has her voice all been in my head all along??

Part of the problem with Cross is in battle they have a ton of great battle quotes across all the different voices, but in cutscenes just the music cuts out and the scene pauses so that Cross can choose to either Nod or Cross Arms or some other pointless silent choice. Cross's default kit is basically just half of Elma's and everything he does as a character is done by the Mii Fighters better.

It was a not well-thought joke.

Agree with you and Cross doesn't even have a name suited for them, like or. "Cross" literally means X.
Also, > Cross

 

[Darkraid]

Anyone heard of the Vergeben saying there are still 6 newcomers unrevealed?

I have a feeling it is 6 newcomers and 6 echoes. Only 6 new characters I really don't think so.

I think 12 more in the base game. Agree?

 

[DYED]

I've seen a lot of people on Twitter actually convinced by Alpharad's video that Waluigi's appearance at E3 is some kind of joke/hint that foreshadows him actually being in the roster, as a playable.

Spoiler: Alpharad's video

I don't think that's the case, I think he was shown immediately because of his obvious moving pattern.
Waluigi as an assist trophy moves in a straight line towards the enemy, so it's easier to show the new feature of KO-ing the trophies.
Someone probably already pointed that out in the thread, but I've lost the previous 15 pages of discussion and I wanted to give my 2 cents anyway.

Also, nice new main icons.
My choice is pretty obvious, isn't it?

 

[DarkFalcon]

Oh god the Waluigi theory. I was one of those that thought there might be something more to the Pyrosphere Ridley shadow. I think Waluigi fans should take it from Ridley fans to not create such theories. That was not a fun time.

 

[Roberk]

Silent protags can be good as characters, if well made. ->

There’s a difference between silent protagonists and avatars. Outside of a few “Hyah!” and “HUYAHH!”s Link is a silent protagonist. (Also, doesn’t WFT narrate/talk a ton in Wii Fit?) Avatars are self-insert characters, meant to have as little personality and development as possible to include more people projecting themselves into them. When these flat as cardboard characters are shoved into a game/franchise that focus on interactions and a character-driven story, that’s when people people have a problem with silent protagonists and by extension avatars.

 

[Lyndis_]

I don't think only 6 new characters would be that bad, if true.

Returning characters like Snake, Ice Climbers, etc; had to be developed too as basically new characters so it makes sense for there to actually be less newcomers.

Ridley, Inklings, Ice Climbers, Snake, Wolf, Ivysaur and Squirtle = already 7 full new characters added ontop of the Sm4sh ones.

(I didn't count full clones towards that number for obvious reasons.)

For reference, 15 fully or mostly unique characters were added ontop of the Brawl ones for Sm4sh's base roster.

If none of those 6 characters are clones or echoes that's 13 completely new characters in Ultimate. Even if many those "new" characters are returning from Brawl.