Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RileyXY1]

That black alt doesn't even look like Dark Samus in the slightest. Dark Samus is light blue and gray. You can tell the two apart in any match. The Octolings, I do have a problem with, as they look almost like the Inklings to the point that you won't be able to tell the difference between the two in a match. Also, many franchises have gotten multiple new reps in a game. Metroid is no different.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Considering how tight the newcomer limit is right now, I doubt more than one new character would arrive for any franchise let alone Metroid. Dark Samus as an echo seems far more likely due to the workload difference, and we're likely to receive a variety of echo characters to compensate for the lower amount of newcomers.

 

[Zeox]

Also, another problem with Dark Samus is that she hasn't been relevant in Metroid in a long time.
And now that we have Ridley, having a second villain from metroid and a THIRD Samus would we extremely weird.

 

[Deleted member]

Many franchises have gotten multiple new reps in a game. Metroid is no different.

You mean aside from the fact it's been dormant for almost ten years and it only got a new character because the character in question was heavily demanded and the other character people are considering is a two-time villain that has been confirmed to not have a future in the franchise?

 

[Zinith]

Also, another problem with Dark Samus is that she hasn't been relevant in Metroid in a long time.
And now that we have Ridley, having a second villain from metroid and a THIRD Samus would we extremely weird.

God, I really hate playing Devil's Advocate...

Dark Samus isn't Samus, not even in a way that Dark Pit is Pit. It's a cosmic entity that only took the likeness of Samus and has almost no similarities beyond that.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Zeox Three Samuses isn't awkward when you already have three Links. I won't be convinced Dark Samus isn't in the game until we see an assist trophy.

Not to mention Dark Samus is technically the title character of Metroid's massively successful 3D trilogy which is now onrunning. Relevant.

 

[RileyXY1]

You mean aside from the fact it's been dormant for almost ten years and it only got a new character because the character in question was heavily demanded and the other character people are considering is a two-time villain that has been confirmed to not have a future in the franchise?

Metroid has come back. A new 3DS game came out last year and a Switch game is on the way to release next year. Dark Samus will most likely be a last-minute clone. This is no different then what they did to Kid Icarus in SSB4.

 

[splat]

Well, now we know one of the bugs Sakurai says he spotted. This is ridiculous.



Sadly the chance this is fake is 99.9%, but I'd be totally ok with that line-up.

Yeah, same. It’s almost one-for-one the newcomers on the roster I made the other day. I’d be hype.

 

[Deleted member]

Metroid has come back. A new 3DS game came out last year and a Switch game is on the way to release next year. Dark Samus will most likely be a last-minute clone. This is no different then what they did to Kid Icarus in SSB4.

I'm pretty sure the discussion was about Dark Samus being added as a unique character, unless I missed something.
Also, that probably didn't matter when Ultimate was being developed since from what I understand it was in development for four years, while Metroid only made a comeback last year.
...man, I hate playing devil's advocate.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm pretty sure the discussion was about Dark Samus being added as a unique character, unless I missed something.
Also, that probably didn't matter when Ultimate was being developed since from what I understand it was in development for four years, while Metroid only made a comeback last year.
...man, I hate playing devil's advocate.

I bet he did know about Samus Returns, especially since Ultimate probably started development at the same time as it.

 

[Zinith]

...man, I hate playing devil's advocate.

Said the same exact thing a few posts above

 

[Freduardo]

Why would you make DLC an unlockable? You paid for them to play them, not to find them.

According to Xenoblade 2, the quest to find the dlc can be additional content.

Even in Gacha cases.

What would your reaction be to a Subspace emissary as DLC?

 

[KingBroly]

Metroid has come back. A new 3DS game came out last year and a Switch game is on the way to release next year. Dark Samus will most likely be a last-minute clone. This is no different then what they did to Kid Icarus in SSB4.

Dark Samus is said to have no role in Prime 4. Adding Dark Samus doesn't really add familiarity to the character. It'd be another Western-made character, and sort of a GC/Wii legacy piece.

 

[papagenos]

posted this theory before but on the subject of dark samus:

i think dark samus will be an assist again and the reason samus lost the alt color is because you can now K.O. assist characters and that could get confusing.

thats it. no echo fighter, just to avoid confusion with assist K.O.'s

 

[RileyXY1]

Dark Samus is said to have no role in Prime 4. Adding Dark Samus doesn't really add familiarity to the character. It'd be another Western-made character, and sort of a GC/Wii legacy piece.

There's no problem with that. If DS makes it in, then she will be an echo fighter. She's just an extra, like Lucina and Dark Pit.

 

[Deleted member]

Said the same exact thing a few posts above

I saw it.
At least you have other means of contributing to this thread

 

[KingBroly]

posted this theory before but on the subject of dark samus:

i think dark samus will be an assist again and the reason samus lost the alt color is because you can now K.O. assist characters and that could get confusing.

thats it. no echo fighter, just to avoid confusion with assist K.O.'s

AT stocks look like the AT globe that you pick up to unleash them. They're not like Ridley or Metal Face from Smash 4.

There's no problem with that. If DS makes it in, then she will be an echo fighter. She's just an extra, like Lucina and Dark Pit.

Yeah, but I think the issue people are having is that in Smash 4, Dark Samus had the attributes of a unique moveset that she likely won't get with an Echo Position.


Additional Prediction: If we get some kind of Single Player Mode, it will be a Spelunky-type randomly-generated platformer mode that takes up 40-60 minutes per playthrough.

 

[Freduardo]

I feel like Dark Samus has a really good shot as an echo fighter.

“Hey... so while we’re quickly just adding last minute echo fighters... we already have a model and a couple of alternate specials for dark samus. She’d be super quick. We didn’t even have alt specials for Daisy.”

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know if Samus Returns influenced much, I'll need to see Meta Ridley and Proteus Ridley side by side to Ridley's alt. Though I think Zero Suit having muscle is inspired by Samus Returns' concept art. IT'S ONLY BEEN 30 ****ING YEARS TO GIVE SAMUS A BODY THAT ANATOMICALLY MAKES SENSE

 

[One winged Devil]

I just think it would be werid if Dark Samus became an Echo Fighter since we seen what it can do has an AT.

Making it into a Echo Fighter would be kinda disrespectful imo.

 

[DYED]

That black alt doesn't even look like Dark Samus in the slightest.

I admit I was wrong in that matter.
Like I said, I'm not that much of a Metroid fan, but I recalled Dark Samus being black from Metroid Prime 2.
If the new versions of Dark Samus are blue and gray then it is more reasonable to see her in the game, but I still think she would have problems about reading her into the matches.

But again, I personally had problems with reading her assist trophy in Smash 4, maybe it's just me.

“Hey... so while we’re quickly just adding last minute echo fighters... we already have a model and a couple of alternate specials for dark samus. She’d be super quick. We didn’t even have alt specials for Daisy.”

Don't be so sure about that, though.
There still are six month of development ahead of us, things can still change.

 

[Zinith]

I just think it would be werid if Dark Samus became an Echo Fighter since we seen what it can do has an AT.

Making it into a Echo Fighter would be kinda disrespectful.

Much like how there are some things only Yoshi fans will get, it holds the same for Metroid. I feel that considering Dark Samus NOT as a clone is something only Metroid fans will get.

 

[KingBroly]

I don't know if Samus Returns influenced much, I'll need to see Meta Ridley and Proteus Ridley side by side to Ridley's alt. Though I think Zero Suit having muscle is inspired by Samus Returns' concept art. IT'S ONLY BEEN 30 ****ING YEARS TO GIVE SAMUS A BODY THAT ANATOMICALLY MAKES SENSE

The concept art of Other M was the same way. They just failed miserably, like everything Other M did. The concept art of the Zero Suit in Samus Returns isn't even used in-game. It's still the Other M designed suit.

 

[NotLiquid]

Some stuff about Dark Samus that I'm not sure has been pointed out yet in this thread.

All of it's attack animations in Smash 4 were copied off of Samus directly. They just did the "OP Mugen character" thing of adding in a bunch of projectiles and stuff into regular attacks.

Up Smash, Side B, Down Tilt

Remove all those projectiles/OP character traits and just change the particle effects of Samus' standard moves, and you've got a character ripe for Echo Fighter material.

As for the stuff this character does in the games it's from, well, there's this info from the scan logbooks from Prime 2.

Scans indicate the presence of Phazon and your genetic material within this entity. She wears a version of the Varia Suit, altered and augmented by the Phazon within her. Primary weapons include the Missile Launcher and a scattershot version of the Power Beam. Boost and Jump abilities are superior to yours. The ability to generate Phazon energy shields is also present.

Tactical scans have identified several new battle systems in the armor of Dark Samus. She now wields a potent variant of your Charge Beam. Her Boost attack has been augmented, and the ability to render herself invisible is present as well. Bioscans suggest that Dark Samus can reform her body short of total atomic disruption. Extreme caution recommended.

Dark Samus in Prime 2 essentially "starts off" as a mirror of Samus. It's only when it starts to absorb Phazon that it becomes a bit nutso. Technically though, this stuff is also done by Samus herself in Prime 3, as she gains Phazon abilities similar to Dark Samus, including the scattershot hyperbeam, so these differences end up pretty esoteric when you get down to it.

You could still turn Dark Samus into an Echo without losing what makes it "Dark Samus", and instead save all that crazy phazon stuff for it's Final Smash.

 

[Smashiny]

I see Sakurai just adding Dark Samus as an echo fightrt because the game she appeared in was Metroid Prime 2 : Echoes haha

 

[Krysco]

Had another thought and since this thread still moves too fast for me, I don't know if it's been brought up or not. Inklings recharge their ink by shielding and pressing b, a button combination that hadn't been used yet. Shield and attack got you a grab, shield and jump got you a jump, shield and a direction got you rolls, spotdodges, jumps with tap jump on and overall shield angling plus going through soft platforms if standing on them. Additionally, shield and taunt isn't a combination yet.

It'd be neat if they put this mechanic on more characters. For example, putting it on Samus to give her access to her ice beam.

 

[One winged Devil]

You know who COULD be an Echo Fighter?

SA-X.

 

[Octorockandroll]

I don't know if Samus Returns influenced much, I'll need to see Meta Ridley and Proteus Ridley side by side to Ridley's alt. Though I think Zero Suit having muscle is inspired by Samus Returns' concept art. IT'S ONLY BEEN 30 ****ING YEARS TO GIVE SAMUS A BODY THAT ANATOMICALLY MAKES SENSE

Ah yes. Samus and Snake, both hit hard by the anatomically accurate nerf.

 

[Megadoomer]

So, this game is called; "Super Smash Bros Ultimate"

Now, what would define Ultimate for you?
I'll give some rules for this game.

You are to add up to "10" Nintendo characters/first n' seond party characters.
And you can have up to "5" 3rd parties.

Now, it's to personalize what would for "you" make the Smash from where it currently is, to the "Ultimate".
Which characters are left, who are realizable still that is.

I'll write mine, but in the mean time, I'd love to hear from your perspectives.
Try to reason why they'd be a good fit to make it your ultimate.

Nintendo characters - I assume that anyone currently revealed as an assist trophy can't be promoted to a full character, so unfortunately, I'll have to leave out characters like Midna and Sukapon

1. King K. Rool - my top three most wanted characters for any future Smash game were Snake, Ridley, and K. Rool. K. Rool seems like he'd have a lot to work with, given how varied his boss battles across the series are, and he's a major character from a popular franchise who fans want to see in action once more.
2. Wonder Red (The Wonderful 101) - the Wonderful 101 seems like one of those games that Smash Bros. helps to rescue from potential obscurity, like Earthbound or Kid Icarus. Besides, the Platinum style of gameplay transfers well into Smash Bros. (even if you don't like Bayonetta's moveset, it's still pretty accurate to her source material), and the Wonderful 101 is fully owned by Nintendo.
3. Isaac (Golden Sun) - I've barely even PLAYED Golden Sun, and even I can see that he's got a ludicrous amount of potential
4. Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness) - while I'd mainly like to see the potential stage that would come with an Eternal Darkness character, horror is a type of game that Nintendo rarely touches, with this being a big exception. Eternal Darkness is more psychological horror than survival horror, but the game's heavy use of magic and sanity could make Alexandra an interesting character, while shining some light on a lesser-known part of Nintendo's history.
5. Bandanna Waddle Dee - he's arguably made the leap to the fourth core Kirby character, seeing as he seems to have been included in every title since Kirby's Return to Dream Land. (even making it in when Meta Knight or Dedede don't) Plus, Return to Dream Land alone basically gives him an entire moveset, and later games expand on that
6. Rex and Pyra - while I've only played the first chapter or two of Xenoblade Chronicles 2, they seem like a natural fit
7. Dixie Kong - along with DK and Diddy, Dixie's a major presence in the Donkey Kong series (those three are the only ones to headline a DKC game as the main character), and Tropical Freeze brought her back with a few new abilities (most notably, a projectile)
8. Elma - I haven't played a great deal of Xenoblade Chronicles X, but I wouldn't want them to skip over the Wii U entirely. Elma seems like she'd contrast well with the other Xenoblade characters, and being able to shift between dual blades and duel guns would help to make her more unique among the roster. (sure, Cross is technically the main character, but he's a blank slate who doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table moveset-wise)
9. Mike Jones - definitely the least likely on this list (Star Tropics was never released in Japan, and didn't even get a sticker in Brawl), but I feel like there's plenty that they could do to make him an interesting character, given his series' goofy humour and the sheer amount of weapons available, from baseballs and yoyos to laser guns and snowmen
10. Impa - while my first choice would have been Midna, Zelda is long overdue for a new character, and as Hyrule Warriors showed, there's no shortage of potential for this series. They're clearly drawing from multiple games this time around as opposed to just once, so they don't need to worry about Impa's appearance in Breath of the Wild - they could use Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, or even Hyrule Warriors.

Honourable mention goes to a Pokemon character - I've missed out on a lot, so I have no idea who the best choice would be (I think the four main ones that I've heard are Incineroar, Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc?).

Third party

1. Rayman - aside from Rayman Origins and Legends being some of the smoothest, and downright best, platformers that I've ever played, I'd be surprised if Rayman didn't make it in, given his appearance in Smash 4, Ubisoft's constant support of Nintendo consoles (they're still supporting the Wii, for crying out loud) and Mario + Rabbids
2. Travis Touchdown - aside from rewarding Suda 51's persistence (he's been publicly asking about Travis in Smash for 10 years), the No More Heroes games are fun and lend themselves well to ridiculous, over-the-top, and creative movesets - aside from his lightsaber beam katana, Travis could throw in all sorts of wrestling moves, power-ups, and the ability to turn into a tiger
3. Shovel Knight - given that indie developers supported the Wii U when most traditional third parties turned away, and Shovel Knight is basically the face of modern indies (seeing as he appears in most of them), I'd have no problem with him being added.
4. Doomguy - Doom is basically the father of modern FPSs, like Ryu is to fighting games, and even without realistic weapons like his shotgun, it seems like he would be a ton of fun to play as given the weapons that he does have that could work.
5. Terry Bogard - after Ryu, I figure another fighting game character would be fitting, and while I was torn between him and Heihachi, I feel like Terry would offer a greater contrast to Ryu. Plus, much like Geese Howard with Tekken and Mai Shiranui with Dead or Alive, I feel like Terry's goofy energy would be a great fit for Smash Bros.

Honourable mention goes to Crash Bandicoot; he'd be cool to see, but I've only played one game from his series (the Wrath of Cortex for Gamecube, and that was a while ago), so I'm not sure what he could do aside from run, jump, and spin. (though I'm hoping to change that - I already have the N. Sane Trilogy pre-ordered for Switch)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ah yes. Samus and Snake, both hit hard by the anatomically accurate nerf.

I will ****ing fight you if you think a military trained bounty hunter should prioritize a beach body over muscle

 

[Skyblade12]

I will ****ing fight you if you think a military trained bounty hunter should prioritize a beach body over muscle

Samus has been extensively genetically engineered. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The current problem that makes me skeptical of Dark Samus right now is her ballot popularity. I do not think she would be popular enough to be an Echo Fighter. I think most voters who voted for Metroid newcomer likely voted for Ridley regardless of deconfirmation.

 

[One winged Devil]

I will ****ing fight you if you think a military trained bounty hunter should prioritize a beach body over muscle

SETTLE IT IN SMASH!

Samus has been extensively genetically engineered. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

In that case she should have feathers and a beak.

 

[KingBroly]

The current problem that makes me skeptical of Dark Samus right now is her ballot popularity. I do not think she would be popular enough to be an Echo Fighter. I think most voters who voted for Metroid newcomer likely voted for Ridley regardless of deconfirmation.

I doubt Echo Fighters have anything to do with popularity.

 

[Octorockandroll]

I will ****ing fight you if you think a military trained bounty hunter should prioritize a beach body over muscle

We're talking about a woman who runs faster than most other characters in the game while wearing enormous heels. Said heels also use rocket boosters to propel her in ways that would make Newton bash his head against the wall.

I stopped caring about military priorities a long time ago when it cane to zsuit.

Samus has been extensively genetically engineered. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Also this.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The current problem that makes me skeptical of Dark Samus right now is her ballot popularity. I do not think she would be popular enough to be an Echo Fighter. I think most voters who voted for Metroid newcomer likely voted for Ridley regardless of deconfirmation.

I think Echo fighters rely more on body and power similarity than popularity (and that first one can take a bit of a slide as seen with Lucina and Daisy). Dark Samus is an evil clone of Samus with a different energy source so she could use the same animations and hit boxes, maybe having a floating dash like Mewtwo and change her explosions to Phazon tendrils.

 

[papagenos]

my other major issue with dark samus being an echo fighter is that the whole purpose of echo fighters is to essentially make the same characters moveset again but with a different personality behind it. dark samus cant really emote or BE different than samus without changing up the moveset and then boom you've gone beyond an echo fighter and beyond how much attention i think sakurai would give to dark samus. olimar for instance still has his Alph alt costume and the reason Alph isnt an echo fighter is cause theres nothing in his personality that could shine through that being a simple alt costume doesnt already do. Same goes for dark samus, theres no way to show a different character behind the mask without giving dark samus different attacks.

and then once again i stress i do think the only reason the costume is missing from samus is cause dark samus is an assist and since they can be KO'd it could get confusing. from a game developers perspective its totally the type of thing you'd be concious of happening.

 

[Octorockandroll]

my other major issue with dark samus being an echo fighter is that the whole purpose of echo fighters is to essentially make the same characters moveset again but with a different personality behind it. dark samus cant really emote or BE different than samus without changing up the moveset and then boom you've gone beyond an echo fighter and beyond how much attention i think sakurai would give to dark samus. olimar for instance still has his Alph alt costume and the reason Alph isnt an echo fighter is cause theres nothing in his personality that could shine through that being a simple alt costume doesnt already do. Same goes for dark samus, theres no way to show a different character behind the mask without giving dark samus different attacks.

and then once again i stress i do think the only reason the costume is missing from samus is cause dark samus is an assist and since they can be KO'd it could get confusing. from a game developers perspective its totally the type of thing you'd be concious of happening.

You can definitely express different personalities through a power suit, but Dark Samus' problem is that she has no personality to express. She's a force-of-nature villain rather than an actual character.

 

[Krysco]

Attaching something I noticed while reading last night. Warnings don't censor curse words?

Also, I don't have a picture of this but pictures added to posts don't seem to load properly on mobile. Or maybe it's just my phone. With this in mind, where does one go anyways to give feedback on the site?

 

[Jetsurge]

Do you think Pokemon will get another character?