Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[One winged Devil]

I'll be surprised if it doesn't get another fighter.

 

[DYED]

While I agree on the new, more buff take on Samus' body, there's no way you can convince me that, with all the goddam squatting he does, Snake hasn't the buttocks of a goddam goddess.

Don't @ me.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I be honestly pretty hype for Dark Samus as a echo fighter, aslong as she is more close to Lucina than Dark Pit however.

More Metroid rep is always a good thing for me, and DS was always my second pick for a Metroid pick after .

The only thing that would bother me is peoples thinking that Dark Samus is litteraly just a dark clone of Samus ala Dark Pit and nothing else, but you know what, I can live with that fact. Just give me taunts & other visual stuff that show the insane side that Dark Samus have in MP2, and make her design a fusion of her two design + the Metroid Prime in some way, and I be the happiest man in the world.

 

[Billybae10K]

Really, we're going to need to wait for the next Newcomer/Echo Fighter reveal to really tell where the roster is going as far as inclusions go. Dark Samus would be an interesting inclusion, though I wonder whether Metroid will get another rep after Ridley's already been added. And with so many assists MIA, it's still anyone's game at this point.

 

[Octorockandroll]

While I agree on the new, more buff take on Samus' body, there's no way you can convince me that, with all the goddam squatting he does, Snake hasn't the buttocks of a goddam goddess.

Don't @ me.

By that same line of thought buff Samus doesn't make sense when paired with her whole contortionist shtick.

 

[One winged Devil]

Buff Samus is a good Samus.

I don't know what the hell they did to her in Smash 4 but I'm glad they fixed it.

 

[papagenos]

You can definitely express different personalities through a power suit, but Dark Samus' problem is that she has no personality to express. She's a force-of-nature villain rather than an actual character.

thats basically what im saying, she CAN have a different personality but it would only come through with different moves/attacks done in a cold calculated manner and by adding that its no longer an echo fighter its a semi-clone at minimum.

 

[One winged Devil]

All they need to do now is replace the hey heels with jet boots and we'll be good.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

By that same line of thought buff Samus doesn't make sense when paired with her whole contortionist shtick.

Well that's because the Morph Ball is ****ing weird and turns her into the light it emits or some ****. In the Prime games anyway

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder what Awkward Zombie and Final Smash Comic will make of the E3 reveal concerning everyone coming back as well as Ridley and Daisy being playable?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder what Awkward Zombie and Final Smash Comic will make of the E3 reveal concerning everyone coming back as well as Ridley and Daisy being playable?

Roy tensing up, Samus screaming and another year's worth of Metal Gear comics

 

[Cosmic77]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Well that's because the Morph Ball is ****ing weird and turns her into the light it emits or some ****. In the Prime games anyway

As far as I can recall it's always been that Chozo raising and training has taught her contortionism.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I doubt Echo Fighters have anything to do with popularity.

Daisy had everything to do with popularity. Have you seen her support thread? It didn't hurt that she could easily be made an echo of Peach.

The difference between Daisy and Dark Samus is that I imagine Daisy largely got in through her support in the ballot. (she has a devoted fanbase) whereas I find it hard to imagine that Dark Samus would have performed well in the ballot because...

1. She was an assist trophy in the last games, which surely made most people overlook her (as they would have done for any assist trophy, I think back then voting for an assist trophy was considered a wasted vote)

2. The vast majority of people who wanted a Metroid newcomer were likely focusing their attention on Ridley....and even after that Dark Samus would have had to compete with Sylux.

Edit: I think it's fair to point out that Ridley was also disconfirmed, though Ridley was clearly in a league of his own in terms of demand.

Daisy makes me think that even when they add echo fighters, they're going to based on characters with proven demand behind them. I just really don't see that for Dark Samus based on what we know.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As far as I can recall it's always been that Chozo raising and training has taught her contortionism.

I mean, we don't have anything that would suggest that in the canon right? Not even the manga?

 

[papagenos]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

this.

just cause we have the term "echo fighters" now doesnt mean suddenly dark samus and shadow are more likely to be newcomer clone characters than they were before. or that someone like dixie who should be a semi clone wouldnt be cause she COULD be an echo.

its just a name for the same thing we've always had.

 

[One winged Devil]

As far as I can recall it's always been that Chozo raising and training has taught her contortionism.

Bruh it's a video game, your really pushing against the idea of Samus being buff uhmm.

 

[RileyXY1]

As I said before, the rosters aren't solely decided by fan demand.

 

[Deleted member]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

****ing this. People are overhyping them to a ridiculous amount.

 

[osby]

I be honestly pretty type for Dark Samus as a echo fighter, aslong as she is more close to Lucina than Dark Pit however.

More Metroid rep is always a good thing for me, and DS was always my second pick for a Metroid pick after .

The only thing that would bother me is peoples thinking that Dark Samus is litteraly just a dark clone of Samus ala Dark Pit and nothing else, but you know what, I can live with that fact. Just give me taunts & other visual stuff that show the insane side that Dark Samus have in MP2, and make her design a fusion of her two design + the Metroid Prime in some way, and I be the happiest man in the world.

Closer to Lucina? How can you place all of Samus' s hitboxes differently?

EDIT: "just a dark clone and nothing else"? You are talking about Dark Link, not Dark Pit.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Bruh it's a video game, your really pushing against the idea of Samus being buff uhmm.

Go back and read my original post. My point was never to say that Samus shouldn't be buff, it was that asking for realism in smash bros designs is dumb.

 

[Mogu]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

I think the logic that most people are putting behind this is something along the lines of "you don't reintroduce characters with a new name and not capitalize on that fully." Plus thinking that there will be more then 1 addition to the echo fighter line.
I semi-agree.

 

[KingBroly]

Daisy had everything to do with popularity. Have you seen her support thread? It didn't hurt that she could easily be made an echo of Peach.

The difference between Daisy and Dark Samus is that I imagine Daisy largely got in through her support in the ballot. (she has a devoted fanbase) whereas I find it hard to imagine that Dark Samus would have performed well in the ballot because...

1. She was an assist trophy in the last games, which surely made most people overlook her (as they would have done for any assist trophy, I think back then voting for an assist trophy was considered a wasted vote)

2. The vast majority of people who wanted a Metroid newcomer were likely focusing their attention on Ridley....and even after that Dark Samus would have had to compete with Sylux.

Edit: I think it's fair to point out that Ridley was also disconfirmed, though Ridley was clearly in a league of his own in terms of demand.

Daisy makes me think that even when they add echo fighters, they're going to based on characters with proven demand behind them. I just really don't see that for Dark Samus based on what we know.

Was there demand for Dark Pit going into Smash 4? And I mean before the Palutena trailer when it became blatantly obvious that Sakurai was going to add him as a Clone.

 

[osby]

Was there demand for Dark Pit going into Smash 4? And I mean before the Palutena trailer when it became blatantly obvious that Sakurai was going to add him as a Clone.

Not as much as Daisy, but yes, there was.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

It's less "Holy crap Dixie and Dark Samus have way better chances now!" and more that with a term being specifically assigned to Echo Fighters, it's clear that there will be more of them. Otherwise why bother with the distinction in the first place? People are simply latching onto the candidates they feel could work, because their chances HAVE improved in an admittedly roundabout way.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

I noticed that the artstyle of Mario from the demo is an outdated version from the one we see in the website
See the polygons ?
So yes when they say Game in Development they really mean it and we can expect a lot of upgrade in graphics in general

 

[Sabrewulf238]

In regards to echo fighters, I know people think that were named in the direct because they're going to be this huge thing and most of the newcomers will be echo fighters....but that wasn't my first thought when I saw it revealed.

I got the impression that perhaps Sakurai doesn't like the term "clone". If you think about it it's a very derogatory and dismissive way to talk about a character and in general is a term that has a negative meaning.

It could have been an attempt to change the term by giving them an official name.

That said I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one more echo fighter (I mean the last game had two of them) but I'm also finding it hard to think of potential echo fighters that would have significant fan demand behind them, aside from maybe Dixie Kong. (and even then I'm not sure how well that would work)

 

[One winged Devil]

Go back and read my original post. My point was never to say that Samus shouldn't be buff, it was that asking for realism in smash bros designs is dumb.

Relax no one is taking away your silly slapstick fighting game.

We're just happy that a character from a serious si-fi game who is suppost to be a high ranking bounty Hunter actually looks like she can kick your ass, that's all.

 

[papagenos]

I think the logic that most people are putting behind this is something along the lines of "you don't reintroduce characters with a new name and not capitalize on that fully." Plus thinking that there will be more then 1 addition to the echo fighter line.
I semi-agree.

except that lucina and dark pit were controversial and met with some negativity in their inclusion on the base roster of smash 4 BUT sakurai really wants to have "Every One is HERE!" in this game AND there was a fan demand for daisy to be included, someone who im guessing he felt fit best as another clone.

so to soften the blow of returning clones once again hes being up front and calling them something else AND hes numbering the roster and not including them in that number so it isnt like they are "dishonest" characters making the game seem bigger than it is.

i think thats all that is happening with echo fighters, we may still see one more MAYBE two mattering to how many newcomers are left but they will be high fan demand characters who simply "fit" best as a clone anyway. I'm personally banking on Chrom myself as he was almost in the last game, got called a "carbon copy" of ike as a joke, and had a fan demand to include him, his fans were disappointed he wasnt chosen while lucina/robin were. but besides characters who fit that criteria im not thinking every possible echo is suddenly likely, especially characters who had literally zero buzz before the term "echo characters" appeared.

 

[Deleted member]

I initially thought they were just going to be clones that share slots with the characters they're based on, but have a few differences.
Tbh I would've liked that much better :/

 

[Cosmic77]

It's less "Holy crap Dixie and Dark Samus have way better chances now!" and more that with a term being specifically assigned to Echo Fighters, it's clear that there will be more of them. Otherwise why bother with the distinction in the first place? People are simply latching onto the candidates they feel could work, because their chances HAVE improved in an admittedly roundabout way.

Clones have always been on the table, and even without the name change, it'd be weird not to see some new ones in SSBU.

Again, I don't think anything has changed aside from a soft confirmation that we could possibly get another clone character - something we should've expected anyway when Dr. Mario, Dark Pit and Lucina were confirmed to return.

 

[Octorockandroll]

Relax no taking away your silly slapstick fighting game.

We're just happy that a character from a serious si-fi game who is suppost to be a high ranking bounty Hunter actually looks like she can kick your ***, that's all.

Again, you seem to be assuming my reaction to the new design is something far removed from what it is in reality.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Go back and read my original post. My point was never to say that Samus shouldn't be buff, it was that asking for realism in smash bros designs is dumb.

It's not realism for Smash but for Samus specifically as that "30 years" comment I made was directed at the Metroid franchise, not Smash, that hasn't been around as long and I'm glad Samus finally has realistic proportions for someone of her calibur. I'm not asking for more realistic Mario characters, last time that happened the internet freaked out about Luigi's ****

In regards to echo fighters, I know people think that were named in the direct because they're going to be this huge thing and most of the newcomers will be echo fighters....but that wasn't my first thought when I saw it revealed.

I got the impression that perhaps Sakurai doesn't like the term "clone". If you think about it it's a very derogatory and dismissive way to talk about a character and in general is a term that has a negative meaning.

It could have been an attempt to change the term by giving them an official name.

That said I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one more echo fighter (I mean the last game had two of them) but I'm also finding it hard to think of potential echo fighters that would have significant fan demand behind them, aside from maybe Dixie Kong. (and even then I'm not sure how well that would work)

Yeah that's absolutely it. By giving the clone characters a separate name, people are less likely to think they're being treated as a regular character too, because an issue I see with irl friends is that they don't like how a character who's almost the same is treated as completely different, though they don't mind the Echo Fighters anymore since we got the term

 

[Metal Shop X]

Personally, while I would love DS, I know her chance are low, even as a echo fighter. I'm just speculating for fun, 'cuz no matter what we got at the end of the day, the fact that Ridley finally made it is all I needed to be hype for this game. Everything we got afterward is just a nice bonus for me.

Closer to Lucina? How can you place all of Samus' s hitboxes differently?

Yeah, I know I should have been more precise on that one.

My point with & was that, Dark Pit gameplay difference are only three moves in his entire moveset (his f-tilt, his B-neutral & his side-B), beside those 3 moves, Dark Pit play basically like Pit in 4. While Lucina have the same move as Marth, but the lack of tipper make her deal moderate damages & knockback, which cause her to play somewhat differently from Marth.

So, for Samus & DS, depeding at how far a echo character can be different from their original, DS would have the same move as Samus (beside some cosmetic different here and there), but her move could either deal more damages and be more safe on shield, but have less combo potential. Or her moves could be faster than Samus, but deal less damages as a result, making DS more reliant on combo than Samus is.

 

[KingBroly]

What are Echo Fighters called in Japan? I'm assuming it's something else.

For my money, you don't re-brand clones and just do 1. You do 4-5 on top of Lucina and Dark Pit, making them a subset of characters.

 

[papagenos]

I initially thought they were just going to be clones that share slots with the characters they're based on, but have a few differences.
Tbh I would've liked that much better :/

i doubt it based on the fact alph and the koopalings still exist and ARENT echo fighters.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Was there demand for Dark Pit going into Smash 4? And I mean before the Palutena trailer when it became blatantly obvious that Sakurai was going to add him as a Clone.

There will be far less newcomers introduced in this game though.

and with the focus this game is getting on fan service I don't think you can compare what happened in the last game to what will happen in this game.

Sakurai has stated he thinks this will be the last Smash Bros game, with that in mind I'm finding it hard to imagine his goal will be anything but trying to please the fans.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that the newcomers will be all fanservice characters.

Sakurai has stated he thinks this will be the last Smash Bros game.

He said the same thing about Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.

 

[Murlough]

thats basically what im saying, she CAN have a different personality but it would only come through with different moves/attacks done in a cold calculated manner and by adding that its no longer an echo fighter its a semi-clone at minimum.

Yeah, basically the same for Shadow.

People are trying too hard to add echo fighters. It's actually kind of obnoxious. Sakurai still knows how much people dislike getting clones. Hell, people are complaining that Sakurai and his team are lazy because Yink and Pichu came back...

I'm standing by my prediction of 2 more echos maximum.

There will be far less newcomers introduced in this game though.

and with the focus this game is getting on fan service I don't think you can compare what happened in the last game to what will happen in this game.

Sakurai has stated he thinks this will be the last Smash Bros game, with that in mind I'm finding it hard to imagine his goal will be anything but trying to please the fans.

If he wants to please the fans, adding 10 new echos would be the absolute worst way to go about it.

 

[PsySmasher]

I still think people are reading too much into Echo Fighters. True clones got a new name and people are suddenly acting like this is a game changer for Dark Samus and Dixie.

Has their chances of getting in Smash really changed? People were considering them to be possible clones before E3, so why are things different now? It's not like they suddenly got more relevant.

While this statement is absolutely true, I don’t think that the “echo fighters” branding alone is responsible for raising people’ expectations. Other factors like missing Assist Trophies (Dark Samus & Shadow) and supposedly past considered characters who were deemed to similar to other playable characters (Chrom) in combination with the new “echo character” persona is what really is raising the hype for certain characters.