Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Whababa]

Does this mean anything ? It says such as acts of deceit.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

One thing that caught my attention was that the only returning veterans that appeared before the 'Everyone is here!' title were Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer. That makes me think that only those two would be in Smash 4 if wasn't for the 3DS limitations and that those two cuts were the hardest to make.

I took it as this: order of likelihood more or less. Like everyone expected Ice Climbers so they were first. Then Pokemon Trainer was a legit surprise, and then Snake was crazy. Pichu and Young Link only make sense after understanding everyone was returning.

Wolf is the only outlier here, I think he should have been revealed before Snake.

I just realized that if Smash Run does return, customizations have to come back as well, because you can't use Smash Run powers if customizations are turned off.

They could just alter how the mode works, like a Smash Run 2. They did build the game from the ground up anyway.

I seriously don't think customs are returning (except maybe Miis) due to Palutena's changes.

I feel like people are putting too much faith into verge just because they want Belmont.

To be fair that's what people told me about Ridley lol. But I've always been semi-skeptical about him but just hopeful about Ridley. Now that Ridley got confirmed I could care less if he has an actual source. Still think he just has crummy sometimes right sources.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

I don't know if I believe Verg or not, but I think he's wrong about Belmont, regardless of whether or not he had real info.

But also, I feel like we're also just arguing in circles now.

New topic:

If Smash had a reboot and was branded as "Biggest gaming icons" (As opposed to just Nintendo Icons) with a roster size of 25 characters or less, who would you choose to be fighters?

01 Mario
02 DK
03 Link
04 Samus
05 Yoshi
06 Kirby
07 Fox
08 Pikachu
09 Captain Falcon
10 Ness
11 Pit
12 Marth
13 Little Mac
14 Shulk
15 Bowser
16 Ganondorf
17 Mewtwo
18 Dedede
19 Ridley
20 Inkling
21Spring Man
22 Pac-Man
23 Sonic
24 Mega Man
25 Mii

REASONS
*Cut retros due to unfamiliarity to casual players
*Sacrificed side characters for more icons/villians
*Left the iconic 4 for obvious reasons
*Left miis for customization
*Added a few modern day IPs to add appeal

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm 80 percent sure we're getting a Mario newcomer who isn't an echo fighter.

But it's going to be Geno.

Captain Toad could usurp him, but I believe Sakurai is going to go with Geno for the long time fan want.

The thing that makes me put faith in Geno over Captain Toad is that I feel as if Toad's increased role in Peach and Daisy's movesets was done to appease us Toad fans as a ''for now" situation. He now isn't a meat shield. He's essentially saying ''Come at me, Bro." to characters now.

Now Captain Toad could still happen and he'd not require any changes to Peach or Daisy because of being a different named member of the species.

Waluigi however? Writing him off completely is your best bet. They're not going to trick people like that and this is just the new Ridley situation for Smash Ultimate.

I still have doubts about Geno. Yeah, he's a fanservice character by every definition of the word, but there are so many better and relevant options, especially with the Mario series. I don't particularly care for Waluigi and Captain Toad, but those guys are still popular requests who would appeal to far more people than Geno ever could. If they can't get in Smash, I would consider that to be a dark omen of Geno's chances.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Daisy is the only new Mario character this time.

 

[SlickWylde]

Okay changing my rules a bit: A Smash Bros game focusing on ALL big gaming icons. Games have to have come out before 2002. Limit 30 (Not including clones)

The separate characters below are skinswaps/clones.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Ken - Side b be a multihit and go further. SRK go further both vertically and horizontally while having a multihit and fire effects. Maybe make hadouken worse to match how he is in SF. Only problem is down b since in SF Ken kicks instead of punchs for his Focus attack. *shrug*

Easy, make it Violent Ken so his down b is a command dash that reuses a pose from his dash animation.

..."Sacker-eye"? Is THAT how you pronounce Sakurai? I figured it was Sa-Ku-Rai, like "Soccer-Eye."

SAH-koo-rai (basically what you said)

 

[Nani?]

I just realized that Smash website added a new stages and trophies section you can't view. Is that new, or am I stupid?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm starting to feel sorry for the Waluigi fans now. having to go through the same phase Ridley supporters had to go through.

A deconfirmation is never easy to take for a character you want, but at least Sakurai pulled the trigger instantly on them, it's so much worse having to wait until the end to receive the blow, like we did twice. If Ridley had been revealed as a stage hazard during Smash 4's initial presentation, or at least upon Pyrosphere's confirmation, that'd have saved me and the rest of the Ridley fanbase a year's worth of trouble, and while it'd still have hurt it wouldn't have turned into the huge mess that it did.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Anyone else shocked we still don't have a Tetris stage in Smash? It's the most iconic puzzle game ever. I think we need one in this game.

 

[?????????????]

Anyone else shocked we still don't have a Tetris stage in Smash? It's the most iconic puzzle game ever. I think we need one in this game.

Make it a Puyo vs Tetris stage.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

So its seems like custom moves are out with since Palutena has a set moveset now, but how would y'all feel if some of those old custom moves got recycled into new echo characters movesets? Most of the custom moves still shared the same animations but instead had other properties to the move.

If we take Funky Kong as an example of an echo character, he could have the Storm punch and chopper Kong custom moves from smash 4, along with some slightly different properties on some other attacks.

If certain custom moves were implemented into new echo characters, what custom moves would you want to see return and on which characters?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I still have doubts about Geno. Yeah, he's a fanservice character by every definition of the word, but there are so many better and relevant options, especially with the Mario series. I don't particularly care for Waluigi and Captain Toad, but those guys are still popular requests who would appeal to far more people than Geno ever could. If they can't get in Smash, I would consider that to be a dark omen of Geno's chances.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Daisy is the only new Mario character this time.

Better is subjective and opinion based. I personally enjoy Daisy's presence and am happy for her fans, but feel she's probably the Mario representative who deserved it the least. Yet she's the one who is now revealed while Waluigi is not happening.

Toad got an increased involvement in Peach's moveset and Captain Toad while beloved and requested? I doubt his small spin-off game is really going to give him an edge, I'd like to be wrong though.

Paper Mario seems relevant, but I also don't see that Sakurai has a lot of love for the series much like all other Mario spin-offs that aren't Yoshi or Wario. There's limited spin-off Mario content.

Now Geno, while technically from a one time spin-off. He has the fan demand that both Ridley and Daisy had. He has a moveset potential that even Sakurai has spoke about publically. And when Sakurai went to Square for Cloud last time? He didn't ask for a Dragon Quest costume for a Mii Fighter or a Sora mii fighter costume or a Tomb Raider costume, etc, etc running down their long list of storied and iconic franchises.

He asked for a Geno costume and they obliged. Sakurai seems to consider Ultimate his love letter to the franchise and the fans. Geno alongside a playable Toad is now the longest standing Mario fan request.

And with Mario BEING Nintendo. I can't see Sakurai going ''Here's Peach 2.0" with Daisy and just bowing out. I'm pretty certain it's getting a newcomer that is completely unique.

It's just going to come down between Geno, Paper Mario, and Captain Toad. And I just have a gut feeling like I did back with Bayonetta in 3DS/Wii U long before DLC even started that Geno?

Geno is going to show up.

Another thing that makes me feel this way is that of all of Bowser's many many many themes. His fighter video uses the one that is shared with Super Mario RPG.

 

[Chandeelure]

I wonder if Brinstar Depths will return.

The "all stages will return" thing seems very likely.

I want my HD Kraid.

 

[N3ON]

At this point I do think all the stages will return. I think they've shown so many to the point where it'd just be strange if the remaining stragglers weren't part of the package as well, especially with the theme of grand returns this game is going for. The only caveat would be if there was some specific extenuating hurdle. Like if Sakurai was against bringing back Miiverse without Miiverse. Or Pyrosphere now that Ridley is playable. Or maybe if one stage is very very similar to another (like Sector Z or a Flat Zone or something). But I wouldn't hang my hat on those.

That said, I really hope but don't think this "everything returns" theme will extend to all past cut ATs.

 

[Curious Villager]

Anyone else shocked we still don't have a Tetris stage in Smash? It's the most iconic puzzle game ever. I think we need one in this game.

Puzzle franchises in general tend to get the short end of the stick in Smash. We haven't even gotten a Dr.Mario stage for that matter, or any of stages based off R.O.B.'s games which I think where puzzle games too....

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I keep seeing people say Chrom should be an Ike echo fighter. That would be kinda weird, though, because he'd have to have the same up b, which is Ike's signature move. He'd be better off as a regular clone like Toon and Young Link.

 

[Cosmic77]

Better is subjective and opinion based. I personally enjoy Daisy's presence and am happy for her fans, but feel she's probably the Mario representative who deserved it the least. Yet she's the one who is now revealed while Waluigi is not happening.

Toad got an increased involvement in Peach's moveset and Captain Toad while beloved and requested? I doubt his small spin-off game is really going to give him an edge, I'd like to be wrong though.

Paper Mario seems relevant, but I also don't see that Sakurai has a lot of love for the series much like all other Mario spin-offs that aren't Yoshi or Wario. There's limited spin-off Mario content.

Now Geno, while technically from a one time spin-off. He has the fan demand that both Ridley and Daisy had. He has a moveset potential that even Sakurai has spoke about publically. And when Sakurai went to Square for Cloud last time? He didn't ask for a Dragon Quest costume for a Mii Fighter or a Sora mii fighter costume or a Tomb Raider costume, etc, etc running down their long list of storied and iconic franchises.

He asked for a Geno costume and they obliged. Sakurai seems to consider Ultimate his love letter to the franchise and the fans. Geno alongside a playable Toad is now the longest standing Mario fan request.

And with Mario BEING Nintendo. I can't see Sakurai going ''Here's Peach 2.0" with Daisy and just bowing out. I'm pretty certain it's getting a newcomer that is completely unique.

It's just going to come down between Geno, Paper Mario, and Captain Toad. And I just have a gut feeling like I did back with Bayonetta in 3DS/Wii U long before DLC even started that Geno?

Geno is going to show up.

Another thing that makes me feel this way is that of all of Bowser's many many many themes. His fighter video uses the one that is shared with Super Mario RPG.

I get what you're saying, but I feel like you're focusing too much on Geno's advantages and not factoring in the many things that could stop him from getting in Smash.

Yeah, Sakurai did mention that Geno had potential, but that might not mean anything for this game. We all thought Takamaru was extremely likely due to him being considered by Sakurai twice before, but he was disconfirmed on the first day of E3. Geno has popularity, but seeing how he's only had three appearances in video games (two of which were basically cameos), he's arguably one of the most obscure popular characters Sakurai could choose.

Your gut feeling could end up being correct, but I really, really don't see it happening this time.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I wonder if Brinstar Depths will return.

The "all stages will return" thing seems very likely.

I want my HD Kraid.

Just give me Fountain of Dreams and I'm golden.

 

[Deleted member]

A deconfirmation is never easy to take for a character you want, but at least Sakurai pulled the trigger instantly on them, it's so much worse having to wait until the end to receive the blow, like we did twice. If Ridley had been revealed as a stage hazard during Smash 4's initial presentation, or at least upon Pyrosphere's confirmation, that'd have saved me and the rest of the Ridley fanbase a year's worth of trouble, and while it'd still have hurt it wouldn't have turned into the huge mess that it did.

It was like an injection.

It will hurt, but at the very least it was quick.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I keep seeing people say Chrom should be an Ike echo fighter. That would be kinda weird, though, because he'd have to have the same up b, which is Ike's signature move. He'd be better off as a regular clone like Toon and Young Link.

I mean, Chrom does do the same jump in Awakening, although at more of an angle.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just realized that Smash website added a new stages and trophies section you can't view. Is that new, or am I stupid?

They've been up there but unavailable to click on since e3.

 

[Deleted member]

Just give me Fountain of Dreams and I'm golden.

I just want Pirate Ship back.

That was my favorite Stage in Brawl.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I mean, Chrom does do the same jump in Awakening, although at more of an angle.

yeah but he doesn't do the spinny thing that Aether is known for. Chrom's Aether is a simple jump attack.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Yeah honestly, if they just add Fountain of Dreams, pretty much every past stage I wanted in is back. That's sort of crazy to think about.

 

[Zeox]

This image i found of Ridley and Daisy is too fun to not share it:

 

[Murlough]

Thats my new favorite image, right next to the amazing Waluigi comic.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I get what you're saying, but I feel like you're focusing too much on Geno's advantages and not factoring in the many things that could stop him from getting in Smash.

Yeah, Sakurai did mention that Geno had potential, but that might not mean anything for this game. We all thought Takamaru was extremely likely due to him being considered by Sakurai twice before, but he was disconfirmed on the first day of E3. Geno has popularity, but seeing how he's only had three appearances in video games (two of which were basically cameos), he's arguably one of the most obscure popular characters Sakurai could choose.

Your gut feeling could end up being correct, but I really, really don't see it happening this time.

My gut feelings about Smash have always been right. And it's usually about characters that everyone else tells me they're not happening.

So I'm remaining stead fast with this. Even the fact that Nintendo randomly celebrated the game on their twitter this year much like they randomly celebrated Daisy that one day rings as strengthening my feeling.

Takamaru is a fallacy when it comes to Geno's situation. No one has wildly asked for him like they have for Geno.

This a strong feeling that I can't shake. A feeling that has happened twice before with Bayonetta and Duck Hunt Dog. Both of whom are now in Smash. Sure it took till DLC for her and the next game for it, but both have happened.

Now I'm not saying my gut feeling is magic or anything, but like I don't know. Usually there's a basis for why I feel the way I do and stuff that has happened to back it up. And then it happens.

EDIT: I also told people that Dark Pit was coming to Smash 4 and they didn't listen. They insisted that bit at the end of Palutena's trailer meant nothing. And yet we have him too.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Although I have no relation to Geno himself I'd really love it if he made it in, just for my Brawl speculation nostalgia. I don't think people who weren't there realize just how big of a deal he was during that period, he was legit the most wanted character who didn't make it in, ahead of Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man and Krystal (who was also a much bigger deal back then). At least that was the case at Brawl Central (which saw activity comparable to Smashboards), I'm not sure how different things were around these parts.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

yeah but he doesn't do the spinny thing that Aether is known for. Chrom's Aether is a simple jump attack.

Daisy can't float either but still does.

It doesn't have to be beyond perfect for an Echo Fighter. It just has to have a workable model and be reasonably decent. His Final Smash also could be reworked, as Great Aether is a whole nother kettle of fish.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

My gut feelings about Smash have always been right. And it's usually about characters that everyone else tells me they're not happening.

Takamaru is a fallacy when it comes to Geno's situation. No one has wildly asked for him like they have for Geno.

I see your gut doesn't extend to Japan. Granted, that's probably healthier.

 

[Iridium]

This image i found of Ridley and Daisy is too fun to not share it:

View attachment 148528

Now I have really become evil. I like it.

 

[N3ON]

I see your gut doesn't extend to Japan. Granted, that's probably healthier.

Pretty sure Takamaru isn't topping any polls over there either.

 

[Wyoming]

Yeah I think we'll get every single stage in Smash existence. I actually wonder if we'll get all the Battlefield and FD of past games, as well as Metal Caverns?

There's no way they confirmed the whole stage list at E3 imo. The missing stages and a handful of new definitely going to come for me. What a once in a lifetime opportunity this is for the Smash series. I am glad they took the plunge.

 

[Curious Villager]

Although I have no relation to Geno himself I'd really love it if he made it in, just for my Brawl speculation nostalgia. I don't think people who weren't there realize just how big of a deal he was during that period, he was legit the most wanted character who didn't make it in, ahead of Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man and Krystal (who was also a much bigger deal back then). At least that was the case at Brawl Central (which saw activity comparable to Smashboards), I'm not sure how different things were around these parts.

I remember the hype back then, as well as those Smash Kingdom Newgrounds video's involving Geno, back then I had no idea what the big deal with him was though. (Though that may have been because Mario RPG never made it to the PAL regions until years later in the Wii VC...)
I remember Brawl Central too, is that site still a thing? Well thanks for rubbing the Brawl speculation nostalgia off on me....

 

[N3ON]

The only thing that makes me worry about the vastly superior Pac-Maze returning is they used the clearly inferior Pac-Land as the stage to represent Pac-Man on the site. It's probably unfounded, but what the hell, Pac-Land?

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Daisy can't float either but still does.

It doesn't have to be beyond perfect for an Echo Fighter. It just has to have a workable model and be reasonably decent. His Final Smash also could be reworked, as Great Aether is a whole nother kettle of fish.

That's different, because Ike's Aether is iconic from his main game, so anyone else having it would be weird.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Now I have really become evil. I like it.

And, it ultimately didn’t matter now that AT’s are vulnerable... RIP Waluigi...

 

[monadoboy]

I keep seeing people say Chrom should be an Ike echo fighter. That would be kinda weird, though, because he'd have to have the same up b, which is Ike's signature move. He'd be better off as a regular clone like Toon and Young Link.

Chrom and Lucina canonically have access to Aether as their signature skill in Awakening, and Chrom even mentions it being Ike's technique in one of the DLCs. They don't share animation simply because 3DS, but they do in Warriors.

 

[Deleted member]

Now I have really become evil. I like it.

-and then Nintendo makes him able to get KO'd for points anyway-
"SON OF A WAA!"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's different, because Ike's Aether is iconic from his main game, so anyone else having it would be weird.

Peach's floating mechanic is iconic for her too. Nobody else can do it in Mario either. It's actually one of her most known abilities.

It's no different.

It wouldn't matter if it was weird or not. The point is Daisy is doing stuff she can't do, and Chrom can too if they choose to make him an Echo. This is very different from a Final Smash being super beyond OOC. Chrom doing regular Aether isn't that weird, as he does a different version of it in the game. Also, see Lucina, who has different moves too but still is an Echo of Marth.